Duke Post Game

[BeatSC]

So basically agree with everything I’ve read on here so far. TBH tremble holds on to the third down pass, Books doesn’t throw that jack hole int and Book throws a few decent short balls and this game is a blowout like 45-13 years r worse but that’s not how it works for Kelly and Book early in the season at least. Man has Book been hyped by all the college talking heads which tells me we watch a lot more of Book than they do and are way more familiar with his ongoing shortcomings.

That was a vanilla offense play calling effort so if the goal was to reveal little and tell Book NOT to keep the ball on obvious read option runs the mission accomplished. If book isn’t going to get us 3-4 first downs with his legs and 50 yards rushing and one TD a game then get him the F out of there. Tell me we wouldn’t have dominated that game with Brandon Wimbush back there.

Pros
Foskey
Wilkins
Williams
Hamilton
Mayer
Avery

Cons
Book
WRs except Wilkens and Avery
Hayes
Early tackling

Honestly how many better QBs do we think are out there in CFB than Book probably including our own team?

More Book keeping the ball and running.
Not impressed with Tyree. Thought he would be a lot quicker. He doesn’t look like he has a quick twitch.

Disappointed that Keyes made no effort to reach or lay out for the deep ball.

Did like the ballsy fake punt.

 

[Bluto]

I’m not buying “the receivers” aren’t good argument. Book has had NFL level talent at multiple positions to throw to the entire time he’s been at ND. What’s been consistent is Books inability to fully utilize that talent.

 

[ulukinatme]

If Rees finds ways to continue to get Kyren the ball, we should do alright.

We need some WRs to grow up/step up in a hurry. The lack of experience really showed. Shades of 2016.

Defense looks stout as always, hopefully Hamilton recovers quickly.

Tyree had a couple flashes, but he also missed picking up the blitz that led to a sack early on Book. This is why Kelly prefers to start a complete back over a shifty speedster.

Tremble and Mayer looked real good, we may need to go 2 TE sets all year if we have no WRs to throw to.

 

[Irish YJ]

I’m not buying “the receivers” aren’t good argument. Book has had NFL level talent at multiple positions to throw to the entire time he’s been at ND. What’s been consistent is Books inability to fully utilize that talent.

Boykin in 2018 yes, Claypool in 2019 yes. The rest not. Skowronek, McKinley, and AD are not. I do think AD can be better than Finke though. We're lacking the #1 and #2.

Book absolutely needs to get better. He'll never be Lawrence though. He was best when he had two guys like he did in 2018. He doesn't have that alpha on the outside now.

 

[Bluto]

Boykin in 2018 yes, Claypool in 2019 yes. The rest not. Skowronek, McKinley, and AD are not. I do think AD can be better than Finke though. We're lacking the #1 and #2.

Book absolutely needs to get better. He'll never be Lawrence though. He was best when he had two guys like he did in 2018. He doesn't have that alpha on the outside now.

Last year he had Claypool, Finke and Kmet to throw to. Two are in the NFL and one got a serious look. There was also a bunch on baloney flying around that ND didn’t have a receiver that could take the top off a defense for 18 and 19. Then Claypool ran a low 4.4 40. McKinely specifically was wide open on two plays I saw that would have been TD’s but Book took the underneath route. Based on all that I’d say the receivers at ND haven’t been/aren’t the problem.

Books good at dink and dunk short yardage stuff. Unfortunately if that’s the go to it allows the entire defense to crowd the line of scrimmage which handicaps the run game, which in turn handicaps the entire offense.

 

[Irish YJ]

Last year he had Claypool, Finke and Kmet to throw to. Two are in the NFL and one got a serious look. There was also a bunch on baloney flying around that ND didn’t have a receiver that could take the top off a defense for 18 and 19. Then Claypool ran a low 4.4 40. The receivers at ND aren’t the problem.

You said WRs. If you want to throw in TEs, Book doesn't have a problem throwing to them. He had almost as many completions to 2 TEs than he did all the WRs. He had as many yards to RBs as he did WRs.

The real discussion is if Ben Skowronek and McKinley are legit. McKinley has been around forever, had his rare moments, but isn't a #1 or #2. Skowronek regressed in 2018, and was out most of 2019. Good kid, but a huge stretch to take over for Claypool. Finke, love the guy to death, but he overachieved and benefited hugely from having Claypool and Kmet taking up coverage last year. He was an OK #3 or 4 option, but not a good #2 WR.

Book is not Lawrence, or Burrow, or Fields, or Tua. But take a look at the starting WRs for those teams. Holy cow it will blow your mind compared to what we have 1st team. McKinley was ranked decent but he's been underwhelming his 5 years. And it's not like we don't have a history of starting unimpressive older WRs over talented youth.

In short, I don't think Book is great, but I know what he's bad at, and what he's good at. Expecting him to throw a 35 yard rope isn't realistic. Expecting him to make guys like McKinley and Ben Skowronek look like Claypool isn't going to happen. He needs more dynamic guys who can get separation on short to intermediate routes. If they don't rotate some of the other WRs, it's going to be a TE and RB catching show this year.

 

[IrishBoognish]

Last year he had Claypool, Finke and Kmet to throw to. Two are in the NFL and one got a serious look. There was also a bunch on baloney flying around that ND didn’t have a receiver that could take the top off a defense for 18 and 19. Then Claypool ran a low 4.4 40. McKinely specifically was wide open on two plays I saw that would have been TD’s but Book took the underneath route. Based on all that I’d say the receivers at ND haven’t been/aren’t the problem.

Books good at dink and dunk short yardage stuff. Unfortunately if that’s the go to it allows the entire defense to crowd the line of scrimmage which handicaps the run game, which in turn handicaps the entire offense.

I think thats exactly right

And i think it gets corrected.

Looked like easy fixes to me.

Lenzy comes in, we focus more on Mayer, boom. Fixed.

 

[Sea Turtle]

So basically agree with everything I’ve read on here so far. TBH tremble holds on to the third down pass, Books doesn’t throw that jack hole int and Book throws a few decent short balls and this game is a blowout like 45-13 years r worse but that’s not how it works for Kelly and Book early in the season at least. Man has Book been hyped by all the college talking heads which tells me we watch a lot more of Book than they do and are way more familiar with his ongoing shortcomings.

That was a vanilla offense play calling effort so if the goal was to reveal little and tell Book NOT to keep the ball on obvious read option runs the mission accomplished. If book isn’t going to get us 3-4 first downs with his legs and 50 yards rushing and one TD a game then get him the F out of there. Tell me we wouldn’t have dominated that game with Brandon Wimbush back there.

Pros
Foskey
Wilkins
Williams
Hamilton
Mayer
Avery

Cons
Book
WRs except Wilkens and Avery
Hayes
Early tackling

Honestly how many better QBs do we think are out there in CFB than Book probably including our own team?

More Book keeping the ball and running.
Not impressed with Tyree. Thought he would be a lot quicker. He doesn’t look like he has a quick twitch.

Disappointed that Keyes made no effort to reach or lay out for the deep ball.

Did like the ballsy fake punt.

There are a lot of better qbs out there than Book. Book is a bus driver, which is all Kelly seems to want to play or the only guys he can't ruin.

Brice made many nice throws today while stationary and on the run. Darts and touch passes. I'm not bashing Book but honestly, guys like him are a dime a dozen.

 

[EuropeanDomer22]

So basically agree with everything I’ve read on here so far. TBH tremble holds on to the third down pass, Books doesn’t throw that jack hole int and Book throws a few decent short balls and this game is a blowout like 45-13 years r worse but that’s not how it works for Kelly and Book early in the season at least. Man has Book been hyped by all the college talking heads which tells me we watch a lot more of Book than they do and are way more familiar with his ongoing shortcomings.

That was a vanilla offense play calling effort so if the goal was to reveal little and tell Book NOT to keep the ball on obvious read option runs the mission accomplished. If book isn’t going to get us 3-4 first downs with his legs and 50 yards rushing and one TD a game then get him the F out of there. Tell me we wouldn’t have dominated that game with Brandon Wimbush back there.

Pros
Foskey
Wilkins
Williams
Hamilton
Mayer
Avery

Cons
Book
WRs except Wilkens and Avery
Hayes
Early tackling

Honestly how many better QBs do we think are out there in CFB than Book probably including our own team?

More Book keeping the ball and running.
Not impressed with Tyree. Thought he would be a lot quicker. He doesn’t look like he has a quick twitch.

Disappointed that Keyes made no effort to reach or lay out for the deep ball.

Did like the ballsy fake punt.

Tyree looked electric to me in his first Kick return and also in a few couple rushes. I think he is fast and tough, he is stronger than i thought.

 

[EuropeanDomer22]

- Book is bad. If Jurkovec turns out to be a star i will be mad.
- Kyren is an elite RB. I liked Tyree, you can see the speed to burn and is not scared to get hit.
- WRs showed very little, a bit dissapointed with Mckinley
- OL was awful, we should demand better because there talented players in the group.
- Meyer is a freak.
- I liked Hinish and Myron, Foskey showed things that Hayes never did. He looks inmense with the pads on and with very little body fat %, a total beast, althought he was unblocked in a lot of plays.
- JOK is just so good, he does everything right. Bo Bouer showed. Nothing from Marist-Simon.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Duke ran the same 3 LB crash plays the whole game. I understand one drive, maybe two of having little rebuttal. But the screen and counter right is all he had. I really hope he has a few more solutions down the road. His youth was on display here.

 

[Chicago Domer]

Marist was in on 3 tackles.

How does Simon go from top of the depth chart to hardly playing? Did Marist start? If not, who did?

 

[Edge]

Marist was in on 3 tackles.

How does Simon go from top of the depth chart to hardly playing? Did Marist start? If not, who did?

Marist started
Simon played second series
They alternated series for most part
Kiser was 3rd down and goal line package
White and Bauer alternated some as well
Moala spelled JOK

Lots of depth there

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

I cant overstate how great it was to see the Irish play a football game in 2020.

A win is a win despite the glam show college football has become.

That said, if we play like that against UNC, Pitt, Louisville, Wake we probably lose 3 of them. And to Clemson by 30.

Book still has, and always will have, happy feet.

I think (hope) the offensive line gets better.

We need a combination of JJohnson, Austin, Lenzy and Keyes to take most of the WR minutes as the season progresses.

At least we have RB figured out, looks like a multiyear stud in Williams.

Defense looks fine. Looked slow at LB (minus JOK) at times but overall continued form we have seen over the last few years.

 

[dkuhn12]

Just happy to see ND be playing

First game without any spring ball. A win is a win.

Best part was no more Flutie. I like Dungy

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Its an abbreviated season, where nothing is normal, nothing seems as significant, etc.


BUT


This team needs to feel INTENSE pressure to have a kick ass season.

Between the rumblings of ND CANT SURVIVE IN A CONFERENCE, and other luke warm hot takes, success is absolutely critical.

If you think the usual negative tropes about ND are annoying, a bad season here will make all the previous ones seem quaint.


WIN....EVERY.....GAME (except Clemson, we will forgive you for that one)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ARALOU]

As bad as they played at times, I never thought the game was in question honestly. I watched some other games and nobody has looked especially impressive. At least the Irish showed some speed on defense and overall seemed way more athletic. With the exception of the qb position.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Jeff Quinn gets this talented offensive line and is underwhelming while Harry Heistand is unemployed. 2020, yall...

 

[notredomer23]

After the first quarter, ND outgained Duke 441 to 180. Not bad.

 

[NewEnglandGuy]

Hamilton after the game.

Hopefully its just over caution.

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=4afa0fec20c485bcf53e0189d72f2c10&oe=5F822260

 

[tko]

Were we saving our play calling for South Florida? My God Book was a panicky freak. His decisions and throws look atrocious. I'd love to be in the QB room to understand what was called and what he was seeing. Can we move the pocket for him a bit? Guys have to catch the ball as well like Tremble crossing. That would've been a huge play. I'm not talking about the close range 100 mph throws, just the basics. I really like Kyren, Tyree and Mayer. I forgot about Lenzy, but I'm sure he'll be back soon and I'd love to see JJ get some time. Wilkins Jr. looked solid.

 

[stpeteirish]

Duke ran the same 3 LB crash plays the whole game. I understand one drive, maybe two of having little rebuttal. But the screen and counter right is all he had. I really hope he has a few more solutions down the road. His youth was on display here.

screen and counter right "all he had" would have been two more TD's (at least) if Book had executed better than a 2 star freshman.

 

[Free Manera]

Hamilton after the game.

Hopefully its just over caution.

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=4afa0fec20c485bcf53e0189d72f2c10&oe=5F822260

Per Sampson it’s a low ankle sprain. Probably best case scenario. Maybe he misses USF but ND shouldn’t need him for that one.

 

[irishtrooper]

Per Sampson it’s a low ankle sprain. Probably best case scenario. Maybe he misses USF but ND shouldn’t need him for that one.

Hopefully that’s all it is because I hate to think about facing Clemson without that guy. I kinda like the secondary. They were asked to play a lot of close/bump man and held up well for the most part. I’m concerned about depth a little, but it’s likely we’ll get a chance to see some of that depth this week

 

[Ndaccountant]

Jeff Quinn gets this talented offensive line and is underwhelming while Harry Heistand is unemployed. 2020, yall...

Scheme is more at fault y e yesterday IMO

 

[NDIrish88]

Scheme is more at fault y e yesterday IMO

Agreed

 

[IrishLax]

Everyone kind of hit on everything, but here's my take after 24 hours to chill:

The Promising
-Kyren Williams is the most complete back we have had in awhile. He is the kind of guy you can give 20+ touches a game to. And I liked that Tyree, Jahmir Smith, and Armstrong all made some plays when given the opportunity.
-Doerer has become extremely consistent. Special teams, in general, only had one big "negative" play and otherwise made a bunch of impactful plays that helped us.
-The defense is really good, and really deep at LB. They are good enough to keep ND competitive with anyone except maybe Tier 1 teams like Clemson, Bama, etc.
-The tight ends are both NFL players in the making. There is no reason for us not to run 2 TE as a base set, and they will cause mismatches for most opponents.
-The play calling schemed up a lot of wide open, easy TDs. It's a shame that ND failed to execute on these plays.
-Only semi-related to ND, but I watched both UNC and Clemson yesterday. And they both looked like total ass for at least a half also. So I think a lot of the rust is a product of missing normal practices and spring ball. I'm not going to panic until after Wake Forest.

The Concerning
-WR is a problem. It's a completely different dynamic if you have Austin coupled with Skowronek (possession/red zone) + Lenzy (explosive). It's still not elite, but it's good enough. The talent level is way down from years past, there is no top tier NFL talent like Claypool.
-QB is a much bigger problem. Only 7 passes completed to WRs, but when you watch it back there are a handful of plays with WRs running WIDE OPEN for TDs or huge gains. Book clearly has very little faith in them, or his happy feet just got the best of him, but he wasn't willing to take the shots downfield or throw with anticipation. Book finished with a QBR of 51.5 which is very bad and basically means the other 21 guys are why ND won by 2 TDs. That's fine, everyone has bad days, but if he plays at that level versus Clemson it's going to be a blowout.
-OL was really bad to start the game. They played better once they got them moving. But I was disappointed in their ability to "bully" Duke. The only reason this is concerning to me is that I think that many hoped they'd be 2015 or 2017 level good.
-ND is not deep in the secondary. I really liked McCloud, Bracy, Hamilton, Crawford. Hamilton goes down and we miss an easy interception. In nickel, you've got Cam Hart out there... is that really who you want in nickel? Maybe that's a product of Hamilton being out and not being able to drop Crawford down I don't know. But if Crawford, Bracy, or McCloud gets hurt with Hamilton on the shelf things are going to get a bit scary.

 

[snoopdog]

The refusal to throw out of bounds and just casually run out of bounds to make it 2nd and 12 is maddening.

Just trying to increase his sack totals.

 

[irishandy]

Postgame Observations:
1) ND found their lightning and thunder at RB. Kyren Williams and Chris Tyree are only going to get better and look how much eligibility they have left. They can be a special tandem at ND.
2) It's game 1, but if ND wants to beat the big boys on our schedule Book is going to have to be 2018 Book, not 2019.
3) I hope Lenzy recovers soon from his hamstring. He played such a key role as a reserve last year, he and Keys are the speed that ND needs at WR.
4) Michael Mayer=Kyle Rudolph 2.0; I also hope to see that Jordan Johnson gets on the field this year.
5) JOK is more than AOK, his stock is going to keep going up-up-up.
6) Foskey is a beast! He needs to be an every down player.
7) How about the hit Isaiah Pryor had on our first or second punt!!
8) I hope Hamilton and Skowronek recover safely and soon.
9) Being a season ticket holder I wasn't looking forward to hearing Flutie, Dungy is a definite upgrade!
10) We are 1-0 boys!

Go Irish!!

 

[EvilleIrish]

Everyone kind of hit on everything, but here's my take after 24 hours to chill:

The Promising
-Kyren Williams is the most complete back we have had in awhile. He is the kind of guy you can give 20+ touches a game to. And I liked that Tyree, Jahmir Smith, and Armstrong all made some plays when given the opportunity.
-Doerer has become extremely consistent. Special teams, in general, only had one big "negative" play and otherwise made a bunch of impactful plays that helped us.
-The defense is really good, and really deep at LB. They are good enough to keep ND competitive with anyone except maybe Tier 1 teams like Clemson, Bama, etc.
-The tight ends are both NFL players in the making. There is no reason for us not to run 2 TE as a base set, and they will cause mismatches for most opponents.
-The play calling schemed up a lot of wide open, easy TDs. It's a shame that ND failed to execute on these plays.
-Only semi-related to ND, but I watched both UNC and Clemson yesterday. And they both looked like total ass for at least a half also. So I think a lot of the rust is a product of missing normal practices and spring ball. I'm not going to panic until after Wake Forest.

The Concerning
-WR is a problem. It's a completely different dynamic if you have Austin coupled with Skowronek (possession/red zone) + Lenzy (explosive). It's still not elite, but it's good enough. The talent level is way down from years past, there is no top tier NFL talent like Claypool.
-QB is a much bigger problem. Only 7 passes completed to WRs, but when you watch it back there are a handful of plays with WRs running WIDE OPEN for TDs or huge gains. Book clearly has very little faith in them, or his happy feet just got the best of him, but he wasn't willing to take the shots downfield or throw with anticipation. Book finished with a QBR of 51.5 which is very bad and basically means the other 21 guys are why ND won by 2 TDs. That's fine, everyone has bad days, but if he plays at that level versus Clemson it's going to be a blowout.
-OL was really bad to start the game. They played better once they got them moving. But I was disappointed in their ability to "bully" Duke. The only reason this is concerning to me is that I think that many hoped they'd be 2015 or 2017 level good.
-ND is not deep in the secondary. I really liked McCloud, Bracy, Hamilton, Crawford. Hamilton goes down and we miss an easy interception. In nickel, you've got Cam Hart out there... is that really who you want in nickel? Maybe that's a product of Hamilton being out and not being able to drop Crawford down I don't know. But if Crawford, Bracy, or McCloud gets hurt with Hamilton on the shelf things are going to get a bit scary.

WR is an enormous concern IMO. We have zero threats with Lenzy and Austin both out. It really makes it difficult to move the ball because it forces Book to be insanely effecient.