Dec 29 | College Football Playoff Semifinal | Clemson

[BeatSC]

Lou holt WAS (damn auto correct) the pound for pound bad ass in CFB and would love to match up with Saban or Dabo. They would be afraid he would rip their head off and spit all over them.

 

[NorthDakota]

You're welcome. Glad you enjoyed it Bluto.

You know what I loved about the 88 team? They had guys on the team that wanted to do one thing, 'rip the heads off of quarterbacks'. And coaches who wanted to 'butt them in the face and knock them in the dirt.'

I remember ND football being about that. Those are the 'principles' and 'values' that I want us to uphold. The rest is for Hallmark cards.

In the old highlights that does look to be ND's thing....cracking skulls and emasculating lesser men.

Really wish we could get back to that.

 

[Bishop2b5]

I think a lot of it, as someone mentioned earlier, is that BK doesn't really like recruiting. It's not that he's a bad recruiter. It's that he just isn't enthusiastic about having to do it and sees it as one of the more burdensome and unpleasant parts of his job. Guys like Saban, Urban, Kirby and Dabo seem to thrive on it. It may be their favorite part of the job. If not, they at least recognize that it's maybe the single biggest part of their job and they go after it like a fat kid goes after cake.

 

[ND88]

Thanks but this isn't Boy Scout Den/Troop State Competition or Golf. And the 1988 team sure as hell weren't Glee club members either.

And don't act like Notre Dane doesn't whore it's football program around the entire country making every penny possible even going so far as to force them into playing in the Pinstripe bowl in freezing New York right after the team had just voted to play in a warm weather climate. Just to make a damn dime.

And bringing in three investigative teams using forensic computer technology usually reserved for MURDER cases to catch a few players getting help from a chick writing papers and then destroying their lives. A bit fucking over the top don't you think?

You know, maybe youre on to something. Maybe ND should just leave football to blue collar men who may actually get their hands dirty once in awhile and just join the Ivy League since they are just too prissy for College Football now.

Notre Dame football and the CFB world are not the same as ‘88, so save the crackin’ skulls hyperbole for a poster who wasn’t at this CFP game in Texas when the rest of the fair-weather ND-fans were making a b-line for the doors by the fourth quarter.

I’ve never disagreed with opinions about the current admin’s vice-grip on rejecting the Zoriches of the world while acting self-righteous with hands in the collection plate. There exists an elitist strain so-pervasive that a modern-day Chris Zorich would feel the pinch immediately, and plenty of 5-star potential on the field and in life are iced-out because of outdated standards that don’t serve growth. This needs desperate change.

Bettis just donated millions to the University for scholarships to minority students, and if you want a story of a human being and athlete with astronomical potential coming from a tough background that makes ND better, he’s one. The possibility is there for ND, but the doors have to be reopened intently and the resources doubled to invite kids that we now quickly reject. I don’t like the Pollian coach-speak of finding the “right” guys who fit the culture when that dismisses the potential of many national players who have the potential to grow off the field as well as on it. You’re absolutely right about the hypocritical profit-mongering that goes on, but at the end of the day, that doesn’t change the fact that these are still student athletes.

I’m speaking directly about the 18-22 year olds who balance sport and studies and life at Notre Dame. It matters what their futures are like for reasons beyond football. I’m not ashamed to say that this matters to me and is a big reason why I continue to support Notre Dame football as an adult man. Otherwise, I would just support other teams that annually stack trophies, continually get countless players in the league, only to see the majority of them chewed and spit out in a couple years without shit to fall back on besides what.

I’m stating that you can’t easily have the best of both worlds under the current climate that separates us from the big boys. Or do you actually think that the Sabans and the Swinneys are clamoring to come coach and recruit at ND that is caught between old principles and present realities? You think Bama and Clemson give two-f*cks about anything other than winning? Saban sits down with a recruit and says, “You can join me. Or I’ll just beat you.” That type of winning has a cost too.

And more often than not, it can be argued that cost is at the expense of them kids crackin’ skulls.

 

[T-Boone]

This is some super enlightening stuff! Thanks Sea Turtle!

He has a point.
In the alternative, if we are crusaders for the good, lets at least say something about the situation down in Clemson. Maybe demand some action from the NCAA. That better be going on behind closed doors.

 

[ulukinatme]

Thanks but this isn't Boy Scout Den/Troop State Competition or Golf. And the 1988 team sure as hell weren't Glee club members either.

And don't act like Notre Dane doesn't whore it's football program around the entire country making every penny possible even going so far as to force them into playing in the Pinstripe bowl in freezing New York right after the team had just voted to play in a warm weather climate. Just to make a damn dime.

And bringing in three investigative teams using forensic computer technology usually reserved for MURDER cases to catch a few players getting help from a chick writing papers and then destroying their lives. A bit fucking over the top don't you think?

You know, maybe youre on to something. Maybe ND should just leave football to blue collar men who may actually get their hands dirty once in awhile and just join the Ivy League since they are just too prissy for College Football now.

There was some discussion a few years ago regarding splitting the NCAA so that one half was football factories, and the other side would still honor the academic side of things. If/when that happens, Jack has already said ND would side with the academics side of the house. That hurts a bit as a football fan, but that's the reality of things.

Does ND owe it's legacy and popularity to the football team? Absolutely. Have they shown that they will do whatever it takes to continue that legacy? Absolutely not. They are all in on the academics first approach, as we've seen by the way they continuously shooting themselves in the foot when it comes to how they handle the program and silly violations...violations that pale in comparison to programs like Miami and North Carolina, both of which got slaps on the wrist. Even Penn State, which was caught up in a huge pedophile sex scandal that they tried to sweep under the rug...their wins were reinstated and the penalties were reduced. On the flip side we got the axe and our wins are still stricken from the books, which is outrageous.

It would be interesting if they really did break the NCAA in two, because ND seems to always do what's best for ND financially. Loyalty means nothing, it always comes down to the bottom dollar. They say they'd side with the academics, but what happens when they lose all the fans that are there strictly for football and don't really care about the university? I wonder if they'd really pull the trigger when push comes to shove.

 

[Graybeard52]

I couldn't read any more after you contradicted yourself. Which reminds me of so many characters from northern Indiana....

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Yeah. Should have been barely made it through "without" dozing off. I did stop watching at the end for my dog though and fell asleep right afterward. Sorry for getting the timeline wrong, told you I tied one on and was frustrated which led to the rant to begin with. Sometimes my rants aren't always coherent. Not sure what any of it has to do with being libertarian, I was at one point but dumped it awhile ago. Independent fiscal conservative/social liberal.

Anyway...

 

[wizards8507]

They say they'd side with the academics, but what happens when they lose all the fans that are there strictly for football and don't really care about the university? I wonder if they'd really pull the trigger when push comes to shove.

Donors still have more sway than fans, donors are alumni, and alumni care about the school.

"Football only" people should get out of college football entirely and go watch the NFL. I'm talking fans, coaches, players, media, everyone. If you don't like the COLLEGE part of college football, why bother with it?

If there was a split, I think the semi-pro division would actually be in greater jeopardy than the RKG division. It's just the NFL, but shittier. The actual student-athlete division would be something different.

 

[Hammer Of The Gods]

Donors still have more sway than fans, donors are alumni, and alumni care about the school.

"Football only" people should get out of college football entirely and go watch the NFL. I'm talking fans, coaches, players, media, everyone. If you don't like the COLLEGE part of college football, why bother with it?

If there was a split, I think the semi-pro division would actually be in greater jeopardy than the RKG division. It's just the NFL, but shittier. The actual student-athlete division would be something different.

I'm curious to see if the XFL takes of this time around. If so, I wonder if it could be a blow to the football factory's.

 

[wizards8507]

I'm curious to see if the XFL takes of this time around. If so, I wonder if it could be a blow to the football factory's.

It doesn't necessarily have to be a "blow," it just has to dilute the talent pool. Four and five star guys who don't care about school have somewhere to go to get paid.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

It doesn't necessarily have to be a "blow," it just has to dilute the talent pool. Four and five star guys who don't care about school have somewhere to go to get paid.

Man, I really hope so. I'm tired of people bitching about NCAA football and student-athletes when it's the NFL that made it into a de facto minor league.

 

[Irishize]

There was some discussion a few years ago regarding splitting the NCAA so that one half was football factories, and the other side would still honor the academic side of things. If/when that happens, Jack has already said ND would side with the academics side of the house. That hurts a bit as a football fan, but that's the reality of things.

Does ND owe it's legacy and popularity to the football team? Absolutely. Have they shown that they will do whatever it takes to continue that legacy? Absolutely not. They are all in on the academics first approach, as we've seen by the way they continuously shooting themselves in the foot when it comes to how they handle the program and silly violations...violations that pale in comparison to programs like Miami and North Carolina, both of which got slaps on the wrist. Even Penn State, which was caught up in a huge pedophile sex scandal that they tried to sweep under the rug...their wins were reinstated and the penalties were reduced. On the flip side we got the axe and our wins are still stricken from the books, which is outrageous.

It would be interesting if they really did break the NCAA in two, because ND seems to always do what's best for ND financially. Loyalty means nothing, it always comes down to the bottom dollar. They say they'd side with the academics, but what happens when they lose all the fans that are there strictly for football and don't really care about the university? I wonder if they'd really pull the trigger when push comes to shove.

This is what I actually hope happens b/c in today’s age of tv deals & HC making as much as NFL coaches, I don’t think ND can ever catch up to where programs like Alabama, OU, UGA, Clemson & tOSU reside. That’s not who ND is & I don’t say that w/ condesceding elitist-speak. I mean, they would never cross that threshold. Are they pure as the driven snow? Of course not, but from a pure business model where the goal is winning championships (not just making $), ND will always fall short to the aformentioned powerhouses.

My guess is that if it splits, the academic-focused teams will end up surprising fans of their popularity b/c we already have an NFL & when the factories become a glorified minor league system, it’ll be hard for their fans to maintain their current passion level.

Thanks for posting...you beat me to it.

 

[Irishize]

Yeah. Should have been barely made it through "without" dozing off. I did stop watching at the end for my dog though and fell asleep right afterward. Sorry for getting the timeline wrong, told you I tied one on and was frustrated which led to the rant to begin with. Sometimes my rants aren't always coherent. Not sure what any of it has to do with being libertarian, I was at one point but dumped it awhile ago. Independent fiscal conservative/social liberal.

Anyway...

Don’t sweat it. If we were all judged on how coherent our message board posts were, we’d all be screwed. It’s a message board...not the SAT.

 

[irishff1014]

This is what I actually hope happens b/c in today’s age of tv deals & HC making as much as NFL coaches, I don’t think ND can ever catch up to where programs like Alabama, OU, UGA, Clemson & tOSU reside. That’s not who ND is & I don’t say that w/ condesceding elitist-speak. I mean, they would never cross that threshold. Are they pure as the driven snow? Of course not, but from a pure business model where the goal is winning championships (not just making $), ND will always fall short to the aformentioned powerhouses.

My guess is that if it splits, the academic-focused teams will end up surprising fans of their popularity b/c we already have an NFL & when the factories become a glorified minor league system, it’ll be hard for their fans to maintain their current passion level.

Thanks for posting...you beat me to it.

There’s no excuse if Lea has another year like he did this year he isn’t a top paid coordinator. That’s should never even be considered. We have the money spend on the good coaches damn it.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

LAX hit the nail on the head for me in an earlier post (perhaps in the BK thread) in regards to ND never having both an elite offense and elite defense at the same time. That's maddening.

Once I calmed down and looked at this Clemson loss a bit more carefully, I walked away with a few notables:

1) With Love in the game, they don't score those 3 TDs in the first half.
2) I agreed with every overturned call except the fumble they claimed was OoB. If ND gets the ball in that situation and by some miracle is able to score, you're looking at a completely different ball game.
3) ND's offense (predictably so against the Clemson D) was worthless. See point above, if ND's offense was even close to be as good as the defense this year, that game is much closer.

Overall, I saw Love getting hurt equated to 20 points for Clemson. That's the reason the score is so lop-sided. ND's offense was bad and they still would've lost, but in a much closer battle.

In the end, I'm not willing to jump off a cliff or make any huge sweeping changes to a program that is 22-4 over the last two years and has 10+ wins in 3 of the last 4 seasons. They just need to keep building and keep progressing. They will never be AL, Clemson, or OSU...but they can be a perennial playoff contender and that's something that should make every fan happy.

 

[Irishize]

There’s no excuse if Lea has another year like he did this year he isn’t a top paid coordinator. That’s should never even be considered. We have the money spend on the good coaches damn it.

It’s more than just spending on coaches. It’s spending on everything. ND has upped the ante in the last decade but are still miles behind the factories. Plus, it’s been proven ND can’t have their cake & eat it too. Yes, they can get elite athlete-students admitted but that just means there’s an academic “scandal” or off the field issues right around the corner. You’re naive if you don’t believe the factories have systems in place to control thos kinds of things adversely affecting a program.

 

[koonja]

I was too drunk to see my feet on Saturday, rewatching right now.

At the 5:47 mark in the 2nd quarter (Alize fumble/incomplete).

Very encouraged with the play so far, other than not getting the run game going. Defense is playing as lights out as you can against a juggernaut like this. Offense is moving the ball better than I expected.

Claypool with the easiest drop of all time, fumble on ST that was over turned, Julian Love out, Okwara out, 2 fumbles, one lost.... this team had everything go the other way and they were still absolutely in it until this point.

Defense absolutely flying to the ball. I don't see a difference in "personnel" so far.

 

[NDRock]

I was too drunk to see my feet on Saturday, rewatching right now.

At the 5:47 mark in the 2nd quarter (Alize fumble/incomplete).

Very encouraged with the play so far, other than not getting the run game going. Defense is playing as lights out as you can against a juggernaut like this. Offense is moving the ball better than I expected.

Stop watching, it gets worse

 

[IrishLax]

Stop watching, it gets worse

Yup, the next two minutes where they realize "Julian Love isn't in? Let's start taking shot to that side of the field." Is where the game goes from "competitive" to "a big fat L."

Seriously, defense was awesome for the 75% of the game with Julian Love. I was incredibly impressed by their effort and execution against an elite offense.

 

[Irishize]

I think a lot of it, as someone mentioned earlier, is that BK doesn't really like recruiting. It's not that he's a bad recruiter. It's that he just isn't enthusiastic about having to do it and sees it as one of the more burdensome and unpleasant parts of his job. Guys like Saban, Urban, Kirby and Dabo seem to thrive on it. It may be their favorite part of the job. If not, they at least recognize that it's maybe the single biggest part of their job and they go after it like a fat kid goes after cake.

I differ slightly on your point. The part Kelly doesn’t like is not being able to recruit the “fatherless phenoms w/ learning disabilities” that are program changing athletes. That’s where the elite DL & WR come from yet ND & Stanford can’t even consider them viable. Then you get a kid here & there that possess that athletic ability & can get admitted through the benefit of a doubt but there’s always baggage that may or may not torpedo the program. ND is far from pure but when something happens that would be handled by the football coaches at the factory schools...it gets handled by the University at ND. That’s when something as benign as what happened in 2013 & is self reported by ND turnes into the vacating of 2 yearas worth of wins.

All that shit^^^^that’s what Kelly & Weis & Davie & Willingham & Holtz don’t/didn’t like.

 

[Legacy]

Yep, Notre Dame deserved to make the Playoff
An ugly result doesn’t retroactively make a decision incorrect.

 

[BeatSC]

I differ slightly on your point. The part Kelly doesn’t like is not being able to recruit the “fatherless phenoms w/ learning disabilities” that are program changing athletes. That’s where the elite DL & WR come from yet ND & Stanford can’t even consider them viable. Then you get a kid here & there that possess that athletic ability & can get admitted through the benefit of a doubt but there’s always baggage that may or may not torpedo the program. ND is far from pure but when something happens that would be handled by the football coaches at the factory schools...it gets handled by the University at ND. That’s when something as benign as what happened in 2013 & is self reported by ND turnes into the vacating of 2 yearas worth of wins.

All that shit^^^^that’s what Kelly & Weis & Davie & Willingham & Holtz don’t/didn’t like.

Couldn’t have said it better. Great post and very well expressed. A big
Arg of why a top tier coach ain’t coming to ND. Not sure anyone would have done much better the past ten years with the handcuffs on than BK.

 

[Circa]

Joel Klatt just upped his respect from in a HUGE way! He states the way things changed and the way everyone that Is a real College Football fan see's the reality of the 1st half.
Start @ 3:28 for ND vs Clemson
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[Free Manera]

Joel Klatt just upped his respect from in a HUGE way! He states the way things changed and the way everyone that Is a real College Football fan see's the reality of the 1st half.
Start @ 3:28 for ND vs Clemson
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/sL5xd5P3QOQ" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Comes at UGA hard. Loved it.

 

[Circa]

Comes at UGA hard. Loved it.

We get Georgia in week 2 next September. It's a must win and a must dominate type of game. Maybe our boys can start taking some supplements...and hide It in hair gel.
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[NorthDakota]

Yup, the next two minutes where they realize "Julian Love isn't in? Let's start taking shot to that side of the field." Is where the game goes from "competitive" to "a big fat L."

Seriously, defense was awesome for the 75% of the game with Julian Love. I was incredibly impressed by their effort and execution against an elite offense.

Yep. Had he been able to play the whole game, I'm thinking Clemson gets ~17 points and maybe ND <=10.

The offense was trash, and there is no defending that. But like you said, when Love was in the game, the defense was great.

 

[Irish#1]

Except for the outcome I had a great time with two of the sons and daughter in law. Irish Nation showed up in force and was loud. The crowd was closer to 50-50 than the 6-40 to 80-20 many predicted.

There was a clear difference in overall talent, but Our guys fought until the end and should be proud of the effort given.

Their speed on defense allowed them to do a good job of covering our slower receivers.

The difference in the game was Love's absence and poor play calling on offense. I would have loved to come out with a fullback and pound Dex up the middle to start the game. You beat speed by going directly at it. The defense showed it has the talent to play with great teams (when Love was playing).

I really want to see a big step up in the play calling next year.

Not all was lost. The band won the pregame and halftime.

12-1 and a #3 ranking. Not bad for a team predicted to go 8-4.

 

[Luckylucci]

I'm going to hold off posting any detail until I have an uninterrupted sober re-watch lol.. but the whole game i hated O game plan, and was disappointed in the OL. Those were my two biggies. I think we held them enough to win had our O possessed the ball more and actually scored....

more next weekend after i sit down and watch at least the first half again..

Book has a an absolutely terrible game as yet again it’s the gameplan and OL. Could never be Book’s fault.....

Nothing to see here, it must’ve been a mirage.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Book has a an absolutely terrible game as yet again it’s the gameplan and OL. Could never be Book’s fault.....

Nothing to see here, it must’ve been a mirage.

We should have known the o line was in trouble when we couldn't get a push against Ball State. Quinn seems overmatched.

 

[Luckylucci]

You are aware that Dex was avg. 4 yds/carry at half, right?

Food for thought. Book was the only starting QB with a TO in the semi playoffs. He had 2.

He was also the only QB who had less than 8 yds/att. It was 4.7 I guess missing Boykin and Jafar for WIDE open td’s was poor game planning, lol. Should scheme them more wide open next time, darn it.