Daughter wants to go to Notre Dame

irishtrooper

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Hey all, hopefully you can provide insight or advice for this.....My 11th grade daughter has UND as her dream school. I'm completely clueless as to whether she could actually be accepted. I've heard different pieces of advice, but over the last few years (mostly as a lurking stalker) I've learned many of you attended this great university. A little info regarding my daughter: she is and has been ranked number 1 in her class (small school in upstate NY, approx 75 per class), she is about to take her SAT, she is a very good athlete (basketball, not division 1 though), she has won many awards for leadership and academic honors, she participates in activities outside of school and in, not catholic or even very religious (not active churchgoers,but believers), absolute perfect behavior history. Not sure what else is pertinent. I have only attended a two year college and my wife does not have a college degree. We have three younger children. Maybe someone here could help ..... We have met with school advisors, but they seem a little intimidated and aren't sure of what to do either. They do believe she's as good of a candidate as they've had, but traditionally this isn't a school that sends many kids there...help!!
 

JD Irish

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The SAT will be extremely important, with those credentials, I would say make or break. Shoot for 2200 plus and I would say that she is a very strong candidate. The application essay, as well, to a lesser extent. ND loves it when applicants can demonstrate that they understand its uniqueness.
 

Henges24

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Sounds like a summer trip to ND to meet with ND advisors should be planned.
 

Shamrock Theories

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Visit. Give her something to write about in an Essay.

Hope she kills the SAT/ACT

Good luck. The Legacy thing is overblown so don't worry about that.
 

irishtrooper

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I've been told the SAT is now a 1600 scale rather than the 2400. Any idea what that means ? She needs a 1350ish score? Also, the ACT test is not as prevalent in the northeast as it seems to be out west. Should that be a factor as well?
 

irishtrooper

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Visit. Give her something to write about in an Essay.

Hope she kills the SAT/ACT

Good luck. The Legacy thing is overblown so don't worry about that.

Thank you, she wants to major in International Business. She takes Spanish and Mandarin Chinese. She has gone to Europe (London,Paris,Barcelona) and will be going to Australia and New Zealand next spring. She payed her own way by working extremely hard as a lifeguard the last two years. Working up to 35-40 hrs on top of AAU basketball, summer league and family commitments.
 

Legacy93

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I've been told the SAT is now a 1600 scale rather than the 2400. Any idea what that means ? She needs a 1350ish score? Also, the ACT test is not as prevalent in the northeast as it seems to be out west. Should that be a factor as well?

I'd say 1400 is the absolute low end. 1475+ would be good; obviously the higher the better (source).
As for ACT vs. SAT, it all boils down to her comfort level with the test. I don't believe one is preferred over another. I have heard some people suggest taking both to find out if you're better at one over the other.

Good luck to her!
 

Irish#1

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I know in the past it helped to have an ND alum(s) write a letter of endorsement. That was a long time ago. Don't know if it still applies today, but I guess it couldn't hurt.

Sounds like you and your wife have done a good job with your daughter. Good Luck.
 

phork

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Let us know when the GoFundMe page is up so we can help you out!
 

kmoose

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Hey all, hopefully you can provide insight or advice for this.....My 11th grade daughter has UND as her dream school. I'm completely clueless as to whether she could actually be accepted. I've heard different pieces of advice, but over the last few years (mostly as a lurking stalker) I've learned many of you attended this great university. A little info regarding my daughter: she is and has been ranked number 1 in her class (small school in upstate NY, approx 75 per class), she is about to take her SAT, she is a very good athlete (basketball, not division 1 though), she has won many awards for leadership and academic honors, she participates in activities outside of school and in, not catholic or even very religious (not active churchgoers,but believers), absolute perfect behavior history. Not sure what else is pertinent. I have only attended a two year college and my wife does not have a college degree. We have three younger children. Maybe someone here could help ..... We have met with school advisors, but they seem a little intimidated and aren't sure of what to do either. They do believe she's as good of a candidate as they've had, but traditionally this isn't a school that sends many kids there...help!!

The Notre Dame Club of NE NY might be of some help in this area: https://www.facebook.com/NDNENY/?fref=ts

I have only gotten involved as deeply as Game Watches, so far, but it seems like a really good group of people that would be happy to help you out.

Congrats to your daughter! And Bravo Zulu to you and your wife............. she's obviously the product of good parenting.
 

woolybug25

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Good luck, but I do have some questions.

Why does your daughter want to go to Notre Dame? If your other children have college aspirations, the outrageous out of state tuition is gonna be tough. Especially depending on what she wants to attend school for.

Your daughter also sounds like someone that could get into Cornell. Honestly, I would take the cheaper in state tuition and Ivy League distinction.

Either way, good luck. Sounds like an exciting time for your family.
 

IrishGlory

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Thank you, she wants to major in International Business. She takes Spanish and Mandarin Chinese. She has gone to Europe (London,Paris,Barcelona) and will be going to Australia and New Zealand next spring. She payed her own way by working extremely hard as a lifeguard the last two years. Working up to 35-40 hrs on top of AAU basketball, summer league and family commitments.

Where was this insight during the Tee Shepard saga?

On a serious note, best of luck to your daughter. Sounds like a solid student and even better person.
 

NDVirginia19

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Just applied a year ago, so I guess I'm the most recent poster here to do so? Anyways the SAT/ACT is definitely crucial as well as writing a good essay, but from what you say regarding her high class rank, leadership awards, and probably great letters of recommendation she will get, she seems to be in great shape! From what I remember they've changed the SAT in the past year , so it might be hard to give you an exact target for what she needs to get, but meeting with advisors at ND is the best bet for exact score targets. For me, the best thing my parents did, even though they were ND and St. Mary's grads, was to be open and excited about every school even though I'm pretty sure they really wanted me to go to ND. What other schools is she looking at?
 

IrishLax

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Good luck, but I do have some questions.

Why does your daughter want to go to Notre Dame? If your other children have college aspirations, the outrageous out of state tuition is gonna be tough. Especially depending on what she wants to attend school for.

Your daughter also sounds like someone that could get into Cornell. Honestly, I would take the cheaper in state tuition and Ivy League distinction.

Either way, good luck. Sounds like an exciting time for your family.

Awfully simplistic without knowing what kind of assistance she would get at the places she would be admitted. People should go where they think they're going to be the best fit, and where the school will help you achieve your personal, scholastic, and career goals.

I went to ND over two Ivies, and I had many peers that made similar choices. Once in an interview though (in NYC, mind you) I had someone ask me why the hell I would go to Notre Dame over Cornell for engineering because Cornell's programs are ranked so much higher. Well, I sure seem to be doing just fine...

I also turned down in-state tuition at UVA and a full ride to Georgia Tech, as well as a number of larger state schools (and some private ones like Miami) that just cold called out of the blue saying "please come here for free!" once I got national merit. As a math equation, those were poor choices as I'd probably be working a comparable job right now if I had went to any of those schools and not sunk ~$200k into ND. As a life choice, I really can't imagine going anywhere else and it was worth every penny of the cost*. So I encourage irishtrooper to send her to the wherever is the best fit and also financially feasible. Remember, the other kids will get aid if they overlap in college years.

Towards irishtrooper, as others have said she should just focus really hard on getting a strong SAT score. If she gets a strong score (1500+) she should be a shoe in if that academic profile is accurate. If she gets a lower score it could get dicey.

Her essay should really be about unique life experiences... for example, writing about international cultures/experiences with her travels would be intriguing. When writing about "why ND" talk about something specific at Notre Dame that will help her achieve her goals... like you could relate her travels to one the myriad of international service programs that best suits her.

EDIT: per Irish Lightning...
 
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IrishLax

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To be fair, I think the first essay ND asks you to write is "Why ND?" which sort of forces you to write about it

Well, that's new, and smart on them. I should put a big asterisk next to everything I said that says ALMOST A FULL DECADE OUT OF DATE. No idea how wrong anything I said was.

When I was applying (and while I was in school) it was routinely brought up how they received way too many of the same essay that was "I love ND and here is why I want to go to ND" and the admissions people said that was a huge mistake as it doesn't really tell them much about you and they assume most people applying really want to get in.

By asking the question outright, that seems to put everyone on a level playing field from the start, and also gets to the core of your specific motivations. So good job, admissions people.
 

gkIrish

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I can tell you that if very few people have ever applied to ND from her school that will help a little bit. Being from rural upstate NY doesn't hurt either. They like geographic diversity.
 

Prof K

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The information you have received above on the admissions scores is helpful, but they do change over time depending on the exams and the number of applications. As the VP for Academic Affairs at a different Catholic university, I would also urge you to consider that she should have a breadth of activities and interests, but not allow these to overwhelm her academic performance. They need to supplement the record and cannot replace the academic record. It also helps to have a clear interest in one of the tougher areas. For example, the dean of engineering at ND, with whom we have a transfer agreement, has repeatedly encouraged me to send him more women engineering students. Thus a woman candidate in engineering is going to have a far easier time than a woman applicant in English. Also, I would encourage your daughter to have a list of schools, thus she has a backups. Included on the backup list could be universities like mine that have transfer agreements. For example if an engineering candidate isn't admitted to ND but does three years at my university, they are a guaranteed transfer with a 3.5 GPA in our pre-engineering program. They then finish at ND. Our university is a very orthodox Catholic one, but there are more liberal Catholic colleges that also have such agreements with ND. However, such agreements tend only to exist in the STEM areas. Ultimately, say your prayers as ND is an increasingly tough admit. While I was admitted in 1978, my daughter, who had better scores was only on the waiting list.
 

arrowryan

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If/when she does apply to ND and lets say she gets put on the waiting list, Holy Cross (small school across the street from ND) has a program called the Gateway Program. The kids in the Gateway Program take specific classes for the whole school year and if they keep a certain GPA then they are guaranteed acceptance from Notre Dame for the following school year.

I know this doesn't really help with your questions but I wanted to let you know that if she doesn't get in, she can still get in if she takes the Gateway route. But I hope she doesn't have to take that route and gets accepted right away.
 

irishtrooper

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I'm sure my obsession with all ND athletics and love for the school since I was 8 years old is probably a factor, but it's really hard to pinpoint exactly why ND. She is aware of the academic reputation of the school in general and the Mendoza Business School. She is looking at a few schools closer to home. Houghton College is recruiting her for basketball pretty hard (D3), and they could offer a nice package based on her academics that would only cost 8-11K based on conversations we've had. The school is little less than 2 hours away, has a very good academic rep and is a Christian school in a very rural area. A Penn State (Berhend) University in Erie,PA wants her to play there and they offer in state tuition for students from this county in NY. Her advisors at school have indicated that while she has some intriguing options, if her heart is to attend ND, she should at least apply and go through the process. Our principal was a very good athlete (border line D1 Ivy) WR and chose a D2 school over an Ivy. He wasn't aware of how the process worked at that time and he didn't think he could handle the cost. He did impress on us the fact that the network she would be a part of at ND would pay back over the years if she went that route. One other option we've kicked around is to go undergrad at a school (like Houghton) with a good academic profile and apply to grad school at ND.

Maybe some of you could lend insight to this as well.....She has been getting pieces of mail every other day it seems and even a phone call yesterday from Clarkson University (Northern NY) desiring her to attend their Clarkson School. This is a program that allows advanced students to skip their senior year in high school to attend this school under the auspices of the university. She was offered 15K based on her being recommended by our school administrators. She doesn't want to miss her senior year really, but is this worth looking into? I had none of these options coming out of school, so I'm really in over my head here.
 

Rack Em

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Hey all, hopefully you can provide insight or advice for this.....My 11th grade daughter has UND as her dream school. I'm completely clueless as to whether she could actually be accepted. I've heard different pieces of advice, but over the last few years (mostly as a lurking stalker) I've learned many of you attended this great university. A little info regarding my daughter: she is and has been ranked number 1 in her class (small school in upstate NY, approx 75 per class), she is about to take her SAT, she is a very good athlete (basketball, not division 1 though), she has won many awards for leadership and academic honors, she participates in activities outside of school and in, not catholic or even very religious (not active churchgoers,but believers), absolute perfect behavior history. Not sure what else is pertinent. I have only attended a two year college and my wife does not have a college degree. We have three younger children. Maybe someone here could help ..... We have met with school advisors, but they seem a little intimidated and aren't sure of what to do either. They do believe she's as good of a candidate as they've had, but traditionally this isn't a school that sends many kids there...help!!

I graduated in '11, but I can still give some solid advice. She's got a great resume. So do about 16,000 other applicants.

1) According to the admissions website, ND will take the best individual subject scores from the SAT and put them together. So if you daughter takes the test multiple times (which I would highly advise to do), they take the best Reading, Mathematics, and Language score from each to give a "superscore." They do not do that for the ACT. But no matter which one she decides to take (ACT includes a Science Reasoning section, which can be a killer to some students), I would advise her to get as much practice as possible. Find a tutor, take practice exams, read books about test-taking strategy, etc. I had a teacher in high school who used to DRILL us on the Science Reasoning section because it could straight murder scores if students didn't prep correctly for it. Basically, she should study and prep for either one she takes. It'll help her be less nervous and navigate through the test easier.

2) I'm with Lax. Write an essay that incorporates some of her big life accomplishments. Have it relate to how ND can continue to foster those goals. Not just "I really, really, really like the school."

3) Apply early. I believe that because fewer students apply early, you get more of a "solid look" from the admissions staff. They can view you more as a person. But talk to the admissions staff about the binding vs. non-binding applications. I'm not well-versed in the benefits and drawbacks there.

I cannot stress this point enough:

4) If ND is her dream school, have 1-2 back up options where she can transfer from. This is what I did and it worked out really well. She could stay in the NE or go to St. Mary's or there's a program at Holy Cross for prospective transfers. No matter where she goes, she should take classes just like she's going into X major at ND. Find the classes she would take as a freshman, and mirror those as closely as possible at the other school. The Transfer Admissions department is more than happy to help review course descriptions to steer students in the right direction. They helped me with this and I transferred in AHEAD of other math majors.

If she doesn't get into ND, make sure it's a place she will be happy for 4 years. Some students who want to transfer change their mind and some who want to transfer just struggle more in college and never get accepted. Sometimes it's tough to tell how an 18 year old will adapt.

I'm more than happy to help if ND doesn't work out for her at first. Transferring is an amazing option if she has her heart set on ND.
 

Rack Em

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If/when she does apply to ND and lets say she gets put on the waiting list, Holy Cross (small school across the street from ND) has a program called the Gateway Program. The kids in the Gateway Program take specific classes for the whole school year and if they keep a certain GPA then they are guaranteed acceptance from Notre Dame for the following school year.

I know this doesn't really help with your questions but I wanted to let you know that if she doesn't get in, she can still get in if she takes the Gateway route. But I hope she doesn't have to take that route and gets accepted right away.

This is what I meant. Thanks arrow.
 

kmoose

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I'm sure my obsession with all ND athletics and love for the school since I was 8 years old is probably a factor, but it's really hard to pinpoint exactly why ND. She is aware of the academic reputation of the school in general and the Mendoza Business School. She is looking at a few schools closer to home. Houghton College is recruiting her for basketball pretty hard (D3), and they could offer a nice package based on her academics that would only cost 8-11K based on conversations we've had. The school is little less than 2 hours away, has a very good academic rep and is a Christian school in a very rural area. A Penn State (Berhend) University in Erie,PA wants her to play there and they offer in state tuition for students from this county in NY. Her advisors at school have indicated that while she has some intriguing options, if her heart is to attend ND, she should at least apply and go through the process. Our principal was a very good athlete (border line D1 Ivy) WR and chose a D2 school over an Ivy. He wasn't aware of how the process worked at that time and he didn't think he could handle the cost. He did impress on us the fact that the network she would be a part of at ND would pay back over the years if she went that route. One other option we've kicked around is to go undergrad at a school (like Houghton) with a good academic profile and apply to grad school at ND.

Maybe some of you could lend insight to this as well.....She has been getting pieces of mail every other day it seems and even a phone call yesterday from Clarkson University (Northern NY) desiring her to attend their Clarkson School. This is a program that allows advanced students to skip their senior year in high school to attend this school under the auspices of the university. She was offered 15K based on her being recommended by our school administrators. She doesn't want to miss her senior year really, but is this worth looking into? I had none of these options coming out of school, so I'm really in over my head here.

Based on your screen name, and your love of ND, I am going to make sure that I wear ND gear each time I travel I-86. I'm not a serious speeder, but you never know....

:wink:
 

Ndaccountant

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Good luck, but I do have some questions.

Why does your daughter want to go to Notre Dame? If your other children have college aspirations, the outrageous out of state tuition is gonna be tough. Especially depending on what she wants to attend school for.

Your daughter also sounds like someone that could get into Cornell. Honestly, I would take the cheaper in state tuition and Ivy League distinction.

Either way, good luck. Sounds like an exciting time for your family.

Really confused with your tuition comments. Ignoring aid (since we have no idea how much or if it would apply), Cornell's endowed colleges have the same tuition in or out of state, with total cost of attendance (COA) at $67K per year. For the Land Grant colleges, in state COA is $51K. For reference, the Land Grant colleges were Agriculture and Life Sciences, Human Ecology and Industrial and Labor Relations.

ND does not offer in-state tuition and the average COA for 2015/16 school year was $65k.

So, depending on what she studies, the difference could come down to aid packages.
 

wizards8507

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If ND is her dream school, have 1-2 back up options where she can transfer from. This is what I did and it worked out really well. She could stay in the NE or go to St. Mary's or there's a program at Holy Cross for prospective transfers.
I personally wouldn't advise making a decision based on a potential transfer. My sister didn't get into Notre Dame and she's much more able to enjoy and embrace Boston College now that she's decided she's 100% committed to the school rather than going through her first year or two planning on leaving.

Another caution on transferring is that specific programs have specific requirements above and beyond the university and department rules. My wife applied as a transfer from St. Mary's after her sophomore year. She was accepted, but the biology department was going to make her retake all of her core science courses. There's no way she would have been able to graduate in four years so she stuck with SMC.
 

irishtrooper

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Based on your screen name, and your love of ND, I am going to make sure that I wear ND gear each time I travel I-86. I'm not a serious speeder, but you never know....

:wink:


Not a bad idea, however I am not out too much anymore. Carpet walking supervisor now
 
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