COVID-19

Legacy

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In normal times in ICUs, airborne precautions are instituted in a negative pressure room with an anteroom in which caregivers mask with a n95, gown, glove, hat, booties, etc so that no part of one's clothes is exposed. (Most ICUs have one of these rooms.) Two people will often check each other for fit and any possible exposure. Vent and Xray, IVs and procedural equipment are supplies are dedicated to the room. In addition to the vent, central lines and arterial lines, multiple IV machines to carry fluids and blood products, if necessary. Some IV and medication drips. The Art line for blood draws for labs and blood gases. After three days, IV nutrition with separate access. Sometimes cardiac meds and catheters in the heart chambers to monitor optimal blood flow. RT goes in to check vent settings and meds to loosen pulmonary secretions. Patient needs turning every 1-2 hours often with four people and keeping all these lines secure. Cardiac monitor. Patients bodily functions do not stop. Exiting through the door back into the anteroom where all the covering are disposed off with the consideration that they are all infected. At least all is done every two hours, usually more often. For CPR, quickly all must do this to enter the room, possibly turning from the prone position. Then there is contact with the anxious, worried family. Some patients are not 250-300 pounds, in severe distress, in need of dialysis, or ECMO. Down the road, decsions are made when to trach the patient to prevent damage to the trachea over the long term. ICU stays for Covid patients are 5-19 days.

Other diseases requiring airborne precautions include, but are not limited to: Measles, Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS), Varicella (chickenpox), and Mycobacterium tuberculosis. Airborne precautions apply to patients known or suspected to be infected with microorganisms transmitted by airborne droplet nuclei.

Now imagine each ICU nurse has two Covid patients for a twelve hour shift in rooms without negative pressure and no anteroom. Are they getting more with the ICU full and overwhelmed and staffing is short? For staffing in normal times, an assignment of two of these is never done. Then home to one's family. In normal times, three twelve hour shifts a week. Every patient waiting in hallways, or any areas in the hospital until a bed is available is not on a cardiac monitor. If ambulances are stacked up outside of ER and because ER staff and management are in communication with all other hospitals in the area, that means no one has rooms. Rural hospitals without critical care rooms or staff trained and experienced for 6-12 months can't send their patients there.

Wear a mask. Get the vaccine.
 
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yankeehater

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FWIW: I have just been informed that our entire retirement community (all oldsters) will be vaccinated in-house during the day of January 15th. Sore arms or not, we are looking forward to this --- this is about 120-140 people. Admin and workers will also get the vaccine adding to that number.

Good to hear Mike! Please let us know how it goes. I have a family member who is around your age and a cancer patient here in Cali and is scheduled for the first dose on the same day. I am glad the two of you do not live in NY. Last I heard the age cutoff to be accepted in that state was 75.
 

GATTACA!

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FWIW: I have just been informed that our entire retirement community (all oldsters) will be vaccinated in-house during the day of January 15th. Sore arms or not, we are looking forward to this --- this is about 120-140 people. Admin and workers will also get the vaccine adding to that number.

Nice! OMMs retirement community is about to be like sodom and gomorrah!
 

Old Man Mike

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We are Sodom and Gomorrah?
What an A$$hole comment.
You have nothing better to do than sh!t on older people?
 

mgriff

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We are Sodom and Gomorrah?
What an A$$hole comment.
You have nothing better to do than sh!t on older people?


My best interpretation of his comment; all the needles going in and out for the vaccines...well, ya know the story.
 

Old Man Mike

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Well, you have a wonderful upbeat imagination, and I admire that, but Sodom and Gomorrah were the places where there could not be found a single person worthy of life except for Lot and his family. So they were destroyed as worthless human filth. Note that this is also where the term "sodomy" comes from. REALLY insulting as far as I'm concerned.
 

SonofOahu

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In normal times in ICUs, airborne precautions are instituted in a negative pressure room with an anteroom in which caregivers mask with a n95, gown, glove, hat, booties, etc so that no part of one's clothes is exposed. (Most ICUs have one of these rooms.) Two people will often check each other for fit and any possible exposure. Vent and Xray, IVs and procedural equipment are supplies are dedicated to the room. In addition to the vent, central lines and arterial lines, multiple IV machines to carry fluids and blood products, if necessary. Some IV and medication drips. The Art line for blood draws for labs and blood gases. After three days, IV nutrition with separate access. Sometimes cardiac meds and catheters in the heart chambers to monitor optimal blood flow. RT goes in to check vent settings and meds to loosen pulmonary secretions. Patient needs turning every 1-2 hours often with four people and keeping all these lines secure. Cardiac monitor. Patients bodily functions do not stop. Exiting through the door back into the anteroom where all the covering are disposed off with the consideration that they are all infected. At least all is done every two hours, usually more often. For CPR, quickly all must do this to enter the room, possibly turning from the prone position. Then there is contact with the anxious, worried family. Some patients are not 250-300 pounds, in severe distress, in need of dialysis, or ECMO. Down the road, decsions are made when to trach the patient to prevent damage to the trachea over the long term. ICU stays for Covid patients are 5-19 days.

Other diseases requiring airborne precautions include, but are not limited to: Measles, Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS), Varicella (chickenpox), and Mycobacterium tuberculosis. Airborne precautions apply to patients known or suspected to be infected with microorganisms transmitted by airborne droplet nuclei.

Now imagine each ICU nurse has two Covid patients for a twelve hour shift in rooms without negative pressure and no anteroom. Are they getting more with the ICU full and overwhelmed and staffing is short? For staffing in normal times, an assignment of two of these is never done. Then home to one's family. In normal times, three twelve hour shifts a week. Every patient waiting in hallways, or any areas in the hospital until a bed is available is not on a cardiac monitor. If ambulances are stacked up outside of ER and because ER staff and management are in communication with all other hospitals in the area, that means no one has rooms. Rural hospitals without critical care rooms or staff trained and experienced for 6-12 months can't send their patients there.

Wear a mask. Get the vaccine.

On point, as always. In this "shit has hit the fan" mode, the sad reality is that every staff member on duty assumes that he/she has already been exposed and is just working against the clock. I don't think anyone is changing gear, the fortunate ones are probably suited up with PAPRs and bunny suits and they're just scrambling from patient to patient. The "less valuable" staff like CNAs and other techs are in and out as needed. No housekeeping, food service, etc. would be allowed in, except for rare circumstances. It's more like Outbreak and less like Gray's Anatomy.
 

SonofOahu

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Well, you have a wonderful upbeat imagination, and I admire that, but Sodom and Gomorrah were the places where there could not be found a single person worthy of life except for Lot and his family. So they were destroyed as worthless human filth. Note that this is also where the term "sodomy" comes from. REALLY insulting as far as I'm concerned.

I kind of took it as once you guys get fully immunized, you can go and embrace all the sinful desires you oldsters deserve. Then again, I am a deviant, so go figure.
 

Legacy

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On point, as always. In this "shit has hit the fan" mode, the sad reality is that every staff member on duty assumes that he/she has already been exposed and is just working against the clock. I don't think anyone is changing gear, the fortunate ones are probably suited up with PAPRs and bunny suits and they're just scrambling from patient to patient. The "less valuable" staff like CNAs and other techs are in and out as needed. No housekeeping, food service, etc. would be allowed in, except for rare circumstances. It's more like Outbreak and less like Gray's Anatomy.

Kudos to you for being on the Ethics Committee and to your wife working in the ER.

High risk exposure comes with intubation, replacing an endotracheal tube, suctioning and oral care, tracheotomies, a single sliding door for a room without negative pressure that opens into a hallway, terminal cleans of rooms between patients, and then there are patients on gurneys in lobbies and ER hallways. Combat medicine with a daily emotional toll.
 
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irishtrooper

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Ok, need some assistance from those more educated folk on this board. I have an opportunity to get the vaccine since I’m a first responder. I’m 43 and have no health issues. Not overweight, non smoker, no breathing issues or allergies (other than seasonal). I rarely get sick. I get the flu vaccine every year, so not an anti vaccine person.

I have some relatives I see (less frequently lately) that are more in the risk group. I’m not really concerned with recovery from COVID near term, but I am wary of long term effects. I’m also a bit concerned with the speed at which it was approved.

Should I be worried more about the side effects/etc of COVID more/less than the potential long term effects/side effects of the vaccine?

I don’t want to jump in front of deserving people, but also understand the need of vaccinating a large number of the population to try and obtain herd immunity. *Im not around as many people as I used to be due to promotions and such, so I don’t get exposed to others as much as some on my job. I’m also not sure at this point which vaccine is available at this point here.

Please help, as I didn’t expect to need to make this decision yet.

Also, I won’t be basing my decision entirely on what I read here, but I do value the input from those here that have a lot more knowledge than I
 

Irish YJ

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Ok, need some assistance from those more educated folk on this board. I have an opportunity to get the vaccine since I’m a first responder. I’m 43 and have no health issues. Not overweight, non smoker, no breathing issues or allergies (other than seasonal). I rarely get sick. I get the flu vaccine every year, so not an anti vaccine person.

I have some relatives I see (less frequently lately) that are more in the risk group. I’m not really concerned with recovery from COVID near term, but I am wary of long term effects. I’m also a bit concerned with the speed at which it was approved.

Should I be worried more about the side effects/etc of COVID more/less than the potential long term effects/side effects of the vaccine?

I don’t want to jump in front of deserving people, but also understand the need of vaccinating a large number of the population to try and obtain herd immunity. *Im not around as many people as I used to be due to promotions and such, so I don’t get exposed to others as much as some on my job. I’m also not sure at this point which vaccine is available at this point here.

Please help, as I didn’t expect to need to make this decision yet.

Also, I won’t be basing my decision entirely on what I read here, but I do value the input from those here that have a lot more knowledge than I

Purely my opinion, but as a FR, and given you're going to be around a lot of folks (them putting you at risk, and you possibly putting them at risk), I'd take it.

You're not jumping the line. You're a strategic, and proper choice for prioritization.
 

notredomer23

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Ok, need some assistance from those more educated folk on this board. I have an opportunity to get the vaccine since I’m a first responder. I’m 43 and have no health issues. Not overweight, non smoker, no breathing issues or allergies (other than seasonal). I rarely get sick. I get the flu vaccine every year, so not an anti vaccine person.

I have some relatives I see (less frequently lately) that are more in the risk group. I’m not really concerned with recovery from COVID near term, but I am wary of long term effects. I’m also a bit concerned with the speed at which it was approved.

Should I be worried more about the side effects/etc of COVID more/less than the potential long term effects/side effects of the vaccine?

I don’t want to jump in front of deserving people, but also understand the need of vaccinating a large number of the population to try and obtain herd immunity. *Im not around as many people as I used to be due to promotions and such, so I don’t get exposed to others as much as some on my job. I’m also not sure at this point which vaccine is available at this point here.

Please help, as I didn’t expect to need to make this decision yet.

Also, I won’t be basing my decision entirely on what I read here, but I do value the input from those here that have a lot more knowledge than I

I'd defer to Oahu or Legacy on this topic (no disrespect to the others in the healthcare industry).

With that said, get it. The more people getting it the better. The risk of long term side effects from a vaccine are spectacularly small especially because of the mechanism by which these two vaccines operate. Your biggest risk is likely an adverse reaction within the first 24-48 hours of the first or second dose, which even then seems unlikely and not that bad for most.
 

PerthDomer

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At 43 with no comorbidities you have real risk of mortality. Additionally we don't appreciate the long term side effects of natural infection. Everything about the vaccine seems safer to me long term than the virus. Additionally risk of death is individual IFR×risk catching it. This makes you higher risk than many older people.

Also while unproven, based on moderna studies it appears asymptomatic infection and viral load are lower. In your position that should keep your pts/coworkers safe.
 

SonofOahu

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Ok, need some assistance from those more educated folk on this board. I have an opportunity to get the vaccine since I’m a first responder. I’m 43 and have no health issues. Not overweight, non smoker, no breathing issues or allergies (other than seasonal). I rarely get sick. I get the flu vaccine every year, so not an anti vaccine person.

I have some relatives I see (less frequently lately) that are more in the risk group. I’m not really concerned with recovery from COVID near term, but I am wary of long term effects. I’m also a bit concerned with the speed at which it was approved.

Should I be worried more about the side effects/etc of COVID more/less than the potential long term effects/side effects of the vaccine?

I don’t want to jump in front of deserving people, but also understand the need of vaccinating a large number of the population to try and obtain herd immunity. *Im not around as many people as I used to be due to promotions and such, so I don’t get exposed to others as much as some on my job. I’m also not sure at this point which vaccine is available at this point here.

Please help, as I didn’t expect to need to make this decision yet.

Also, I won’t be basing my decision entirely on what I read here, but I do value the input from those here that have a lot more knowledge than I

First up, WE ALL don't know what the long-term effects of this vaccine are. Who knows, maybe we're all going to grow a third eye in two generations. No, seriously, this type of vaccine has been in development for over 30 years. It's not new like CRISPR. I'm not really concerned.

My opinion is that you should get it when you can. Logistically, it's easier to plan out everyone saying yes than it is to calculate percentages of yes/no because now you're going to end up layering shipments.

You taking it is not going to change the expected delivery dates for your family members one iota. The planning for this is scaled into the millions; a one-off is not going to change the calculus.
 

Legacy

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Ok, need some assistance from those more educated folk on this board. I have an opportunity to get the vaccine since I’m a first responder. I’m 43 and have no health issues. Not overweight, non smoker, no breathing issues or allergies (other than seasonal). I rarely get sick. I get the flu vaccine every year, so not an anti vaccine person.

I have some relatives I see (less frequently lately) that are more in the risk group. I’m not really concerned with recovery from COVID near term, but I am wary of long term effects. I’m also a bit concerned with the speed at which it was approved.

Should I be worried more about the side effects/etc of COVID more/less than the potential long term effects/side effects of the vaccine?

I don’t want to jump in front of deserving people, but also understand the need of vaccinating a large number of the population to try and obtain herd immunity. *Im not around as many people as I used to be due to promotions and such, so I don’t get exposed to others as much as some on my job. I’m also not sure at this point which vaccine is available at this point here.

Please help, as I didn’t expect to need to make this decision yet.

Also, I won’t be basing my decision entirely on what I read here, but I do value the input from those here that have a lot more knowledge than I

I understand your hesitancy due to some unknowns. You may not have the conditions and exposures that elevate your risk and that some of your co-workers have, but you have risk even from a co-worker more exposed more frequently to high viral loads who are not vaccinated. This virus is so challenging to prevent spread and dangerous to so many of us with both its short and long term consequences.

The new more transmissible variant may take over in a couple of months increasing the importance of checking its spread and keeping you on the job and family safe. Fortunately, the vaccines protect you from the variant, too. Three of my family members have had the vaccine. I'll get the vaccine by the end of the week (Pfizer, but I'd accept the Moderna). I don't think they cut corners and sacrificed safety to get this tested and approved. Whatever you decide, getting as many first responders as possible vaccinated will be key. So far over 9 million doses have been given and we are not hearing of any significant side effects, if you want to consider that as the results of a massive trial.
 
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FDNYIrish1

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Ok, need some assistance from those more educated folk on this board. I have an opportunity to get the vaccine since I’m a first responder. I’m 43 and have no health issues. Not overweight, non smoker, no breathing issues or allergies (other than seasonal). I rarely get sick. I get the flu vaccine every year, so not an anti vaccine person.

I have some relatives I see (less frequently lately) that are more in the risk group. I’m not really concerned with recovery from COVID near term, but I am wary of long term effects. I’m also a bit concerned with the speed at which it was approved.

Should I be worried more about the side effects/etc of COVID more/less than the potential long term effects/side effects of the vaccine?

I don’t want to jump in front of deserving people, but also understand the need of vaccinating a large number of the population to try and obtain herd immunity. *Im not around as many people as I used to be due to promotions and such, so I don’t get exposed to others as much as some on my job. I’m also not sure at this point which vaccine is available at this point here.

Please help, as I didn’t expect to need to make this decision yet.

Also, I won’t be basing my decision entirely on what I read here, but I do value the input from those here that have a lot more knowledge than I
I’m not one of the educated people, and I’ve had all the same concerns as you. I’m not in any of the risk groups and am a bit concerned with what I put into my body. On the other hand, they put us to the front of the line for a reason. If we are down we cannot help people. That and in discharge of our duties we have the ability to spread the virus to the public and our families. I go on fever/cough runs all day. Though I have my reservations, it does a lot more good for us to take it than not.
 

FDNYIrish1

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We are Sodom and Gomorrah?
What an A$$hole comment.
You have nothing better to do than sh!t on older people?

Mike I’m pretty sure it was an off the cuff joke. We’ve all heard about what goes on down in places like the villages in Florida. You are too well respected around here for someone to take a cheap shot at you. I’m happy you are getting the vaccine. Stay healthy.
 

Old Man Mike

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Thank you, but I've had a lot of cheap shots over the years. Usually I just don't respond. (Hell, someone not-to-be-named began a campaign to vote me the most overrated poster. That got lots of votes, nearly all from guys who consistently didn't "like" my posts --- too "serious", I think. I just stopped posting for a while to slow the jackanape chattering.) I'm getting old and less willing to just shut up. I'm sure that childish goof-joking played some role, but it's really offbase/insensitive anyway. No one really appreciates direct attack "Kidding." (I apologize for my ego-excursion here --- usually I don't do that.)
 

ulukinatme

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Interesting that there was recent discussion about hesitancy to take the virus. Vox just released a report that something like 40% of first responders have declined to take it at the current time. There's a number of significant factors contributing to that, but according to one of the researchers at Yale they knew holdouts would be an issue going in and they haven't done anything to mitigate that unfortunately.

FWIW I plan to get the vaccine. I was going to wait three months to see how the population at large is affected in that time, but honestly by the time it's available to me it'll be 3 months or more down the road anyway.
 

PerthDomer

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In the medical field the more education a person has the more likely they are to get the vaccine. Ironically it also predicts voting for president. Party ID's were inverted 20 years ago. Docs used to be the base of the Republican party.
 

InKellyWeTrust

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In the medical field the more education a person has the more likely they are to get the vaccine. Ironically it also predicts voting for president. Party ID's were inverted 20 years ago. Docs used to be the base of the Republican party.

I get the sentiment but I'd like to decouple politics from anything and everything regarding this pandemic. It's our biggest hurdle in this country for control of this virus.
 

Old Man Mike

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Total agreement. Now that the presidency is in transition, the message about COVID should get clearer to everyone as the "news" changes.
 

Legacy

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I believe it's "healthcare workers" which could include non-professionals like medical assistants, etc. I'd like to see that breakdown and also rural v urban and areas that have high rates of Covid v others.

This is usually referring to the Kaiser Family Foundation study. That breakdown has "Essential workers" at 33%, "Healthcare workers" at 29% with the public at 27$, Nursing home workers at 60%. The latter are usually predominantly assistants and some LPNs with one RN required per shift.

https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/report/kff-covid-19-vaccine-monitor-december-2020/

If you get Covid - although it's hard to determine exactly - antibodies last for 6 months while getting the vaccine would provide protection for nine months or longer.

Some have posted here that they think they had it in February or early days.
 
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irishtrooper

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I appreciate the intelligent responses here and I’ve done A LOT of research/reading since yesterday (some prior to, but wasn’t expecting availability this soon). I’ve decided to take it as the benefits outweigh the potential risk.

I wasn’t questioning the vaccine due to my lack of intelligence or because I voted a certain way, but it seemed like I should be comfortable with my decision. I am no expert and there’s so much information out there, it can be hard to decipher which POV has a motive and why.... Narrative pushing (on both sides) gets in the way of productive debate and discussion. I keep an open mind and I sincerely appreciate those that took the time to respond to my post.

Thank you
 

Irish#1

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I appreciate the intelligent responses here and I’ve done A LOT of research/reading since yesterday (some prior to, but wasn’t expecting availability this soon). I’ve decided to take it as the benefits outweigh the potential risk.

I wasn’t questioning the vaccine due to my lack of intelligence or because I voted a certain way, but it seemed like I should be comfortable with my decision. I am no expert and there’s so much information out there, it can be hard to decipher which POV has a motive and why.... Narrative pushing (on both sides) gets in the way of productive debate and discussion. I keep an open mind and I sincerely appreciate those that took the time to respond to my post.

Thank you

I'll be getting the vaccine here shortly given my age, but the wife said she doesn't want to get it. Like SonofOahu said, it will be quite a while before we really know the effects, but I think you have to trust the system.
 

IrishLax

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I appreciate the intelligent responses here and I’ve done A LOT of research/reading since yesterday (some prior to, but wasn’t expecting availability this soon). I’ve decided to take it as the benefits outweigh the potential risk.

I wasn’t questioning the vaccine due to my lack of intelligence or because I voted a certain way, but it seemed like I should be comfortable with my decision. I am no expert and there’s so much information out there, it can be hard to decipher which POV has a motive and why.... Narrative pushing (on both sides) gets in the way of productive debate and discussion. I keep an open mind and I sincerely appreciate those that took the time to respond to my post.

Thank you

All I can add is that in my close friend group from ND five people went on to be doctors... they're some of the smartest people I know, and all of them got the vaccine as soon as possible. I think you made the right choice, and I hope other people make a similar choice.
 
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IrishLax

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Someone before was suggesting that the mRNA vaccine prevents symptoms but not infection... meaning vaccinated people could still be asymptomatic transmission vectors. Early data out of Israel is suggesting that this is not the case and even one dose of the vaccine helps prevent infection outright.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Maybe the two most tentatively heartening snippets of news I've ever seen. Very early data from Israeli healthcare providers is suggesting a sharp drop in infections among those who've received one jab. Clalit says -33%, Maccabi -60% both at around 2wks. <a href="https://t.co/4DFoj43WjP">https://t.co/4DFoj43WjP</a> <a href="https://t.co/FsBqVTYJFE">pic.twitter.com/FsBqVTYJFE</a></p>— Mike Bird (@Birdyword) <a href="https://twitter.com/Birdyword/status/1349073493330165765?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 12, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

TorontoGold

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Someone before was suggesting that the mRNA vaccine prevents symptoms but not infection... meaning vaccinated people could still be asymptomatic transmission vectors. Early data out of Israel is suggesting that this is not the case and even one dose of the vaccine helps prevent infection outright.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Maybe the two most tentatively heartening snippets of news I've ever seen. Very early data from Israeli healthcare providers is suggesting a sharp drop in infections among those who've received one jab. Clalit says -33%, Maccabi -60% both at around 2wks. <a href="https://t.co/4DFoj43WjP">https://t.co/4DFoj43WjP</a> <a href="https://t.co/FsBqVTYJFE">pic.twitter.com/FsBqVTYJFE</a></p>— Mike Bird (@Birdyword) <a href="https://twitter.com/Birdyword/status/1349073493330165765?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 12, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

That's amazing stuff, I wonder how messaging is going to have to be to make sure people get the second dose? First battle is the "not sure about the side effects" people, next I think is the "first dose is good enough".
 

Old Man Mike

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A general comment about "disease":

"Infection" is a somewhat arbitrary label applied by us humans when, to our estimate/view, some virus or organism's presence in the body has created enough havoc to reach some criterion of us being "sick."

My point is that we all have potentially dangerous micro-organisms or viruses in our systems all the time. Our bodies' immune systems are fighting constant warfare skirmishes with these things and usually winning that war of attrition so that the effects of the bad guys do not rise to the level of threatening damage.

So, in the extreme way of looking at a vaccine, no vaccine is going to stop the virus from "getting inside." No vaccine can be potent enough so that intruders will be wiped out as soon as they set foot inside the nasal membranes. What they will do is to create a much greater number of armed robot killers (from our own immune system, and therefore our own selves/genetics --- i.e. NOT "foreign" robot killers) who more efficiently defeat the invaders.

The vaccine cannot stop the bad guys from entering (masks to a large degree can.) The vaccine cannot stimulate ourselves to produce an overwhelming hoard of killer robot immune cells so as to kill them instantly. The vaccine CAN help create enough robots so that the bad guys evil work never ascends to the level that you or I or our doctor would say we are "diseased."

So, we use the term "infection" just a little too vaguely. Infection is, to a degree, a human judgement call at least until some scientific measurements/data can substantiate that actual damage is being done. "Presence of the virus" is not necessarily there yet for the condition to be labeled "infection." It's a useful word to a point, but I'd like to hear what different medical scientists use as criteria before they give out post-vaccine "infection" numbers.

.... my understanding, and I stick with Fauci here, is that the current vaccines are about 90%-95% effective in preventing virus activity to rise to levels where it is causing actual measurable/data-based harm after one shot plus another booster. (Probably the higher number.) Note that, as a stick-in-the-mud, I didn't use "infection" in that sentence. The immune-system so empowered can then slowly rout the viral stragglers and defend the castle for 9 months or so, till its viral memory loses a bit of intensity (and we might need boosters if the rest of the country is still misbehaving and we haven' (via herd-immunity) routed it entirely.)

p.s. 33% sure as he!l isn't good enough for the herd
 

Irishize

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Someone before was suggesting that the mRNA vaccine prevents symptoms but not infection... meaning vaccinated people could still be asymptomatic transmission vectors. Early data out of Israel is suggesting that this is not the case and even one dose of the vaccine helps prevent infection outright.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Maybe the two most tentatively heartening snippets of news I've ever seen. Very early data from Israeli healthcare providers is suggesting a sharp drop in infections among those who've received one jab. Clalit says -33%, Maccabi -60% both at around 2wks. <a href="https://t.co/4DFoj43WjP">https://t.co/4DFoj43WjP</a> <a href="https://t.co/FsBqVTYJFE">pic.twitter.com/FsBqVTYJFE</a></p>— Mike Bird (@Birdyword) <a href="https://twitter.com/Birdyword/status/1349073493330165765?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 12, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Saw the numbers comparing first week to second week to third week...it was astonishing! Israel has done a great job thus far which gives the rest of the world a template to follow as far as the importance of getting the vaccinations implemented efficiently.
 
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