Colin Cowherd

wizards8507

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LOL. Just won't stop will you? Mostly everyone picked those teams last year. C'mon man. To have Arkansas, Ole Miss and A&M in the TOP 10 is beyond stupid.
Wow you're thick. Yes, it's stupid. That doesn't mean it's biased. What part of "mathematical formula" eludes your skills of comprehension? If they adjusted the model to be contrary to the mathematically-derived outcome, THEN it would be biased. But that's exactly what you want them to do to manually remove those teams to which you object.

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NDinL.A.

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For the record wiz, I've never stated that ESPN was unfair to ND. I've always stated the opposite actually. Some dudes hate us, but some love us. When we're good, they talk about us. And when we are bad, they talk about us.

Also for the record, still waiting for your response on the CFL/SEC show, for two days in a row now, DURING the ACC's media day, which you stated would be all about the ACC lol. It's beyond a bias that you just refuse to admit.

EDIT: Dang, my bad! Just got to the final five minutes of college football live, where they were gracious enough to show a one minute interview with Jimbo Fisher (after devoting the entire show to interviews w SEC coaches, after 6 straight days of all-SEC coverage on CFL). Yeah dude, you're spot on.

Still waiting..........going on two days now. I'll take that as a white flag. Thanks for playing.
 

IrishSteelhead

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Colin Cowherd

Mostly everyone picked those teams last year. C'mon man. To have Arkansas, Ole Miss and A&M in the TOP 10 is beyond stupid.


I agree with this 100%. It isn't hard to rate the top 4 where they are, it's the bottom half that is ridiculous filler to serve an agenda. It sets up a nice golden parachute for teams like Arkansas and Ole Miss that will lose 4-5 games and still be in the top 20.

Another question: why does ESPN constantly feel the need to rank teams anyways other than a few talking heads giving their top 10 or whatever? It is their job to REPORT the news, not react to it and even worse create it outside of debate segments. Why did they even create their own rating system?
 
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wizards8507

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Still waiting..........going on two days now. I'll take that as a white flag. Thanks for playing.
There's something called the ESPN "car wash" when coaches, athletes, and celebrities come to Bristol and appear in a bunch of different programs. Several SEC coaches physically came here after their media days, which is why you saw them on CFL. These aren't planned things and are often set up at the request of agents when there's something they're trying to plug. If Gronk calls ESPN wanting to promote his book, you'll see him in a bunch of different studio shows all in one day. There was a LOT of time devoted to live press conferences on SportsCenter today. I can't speak to Monday because everything centered on The Open.

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NDinL.A.

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There's something called the ESPN "car wash" when coaches, athletes, and celebrities come to Bristol and appear in a bunch of different programs. Several SEC coaches physically came here after their media days, which is why you saw them on CFL. These aren't planned things and are often set up at the request of agents when there's something they're trying to plug. If Gronk calls ESPN wanting to promote his book, you'll see him in a bunch of different studio shows all in one day. There was a LOT of time devoted to live press conferences on SportsCenter today. I can't speak to Monday because everything centered on The Open.

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I was expecting that response. I know exactly what the car wash is. Means nothing. Do you think if the situation was reversed they would have completely ignored the SEC becase the ACC coaches were there? Hell no, and you know it. They could have EASILY put the ACC news on first and pushed the coaches TAPED interviews to the back. Instead, they completely ignored the ACC media day on day 1 in lieu of wall-to-wall SEC coverage (fort the 5th straight show), and showed 4 minutes of ACC coverage at the end of the show on day 2. It's a joke.

The ACC coaches come in for their car wash next Monday. How much money do you want to bet that the SEC, errrrrrr, CFL on ESPN doesn't split them up into two full days of wall-to-wall ACC coverage? How about even one day? You name your price.

The funny thing, unlike most here, I actually like ESPN. Watch it all the time. I know they follow the $$$, and for the most part I'm OK with it. I also know they are massive shills for the SEC, and the bias is beyond obvious, and I don't mind calling them out on it. I know you work for them, but defending them in this case is just a bad look. It should be one of those "I won't comment" types of things for you...
 

greyhammer90

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As a guy who loves silly, pointless arguments and participates in them daily... This is a very silly, very pointless argument.
 

T Town Tommy

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No one has ever denied that.

But there's more to it, which Wizards continues to ignore.

I don't really think so. If the PAC 12 was able to make ESPN more money, then they would cover that conference more. Since the PAC 12 has alignment with FOX, they receive the lion's share of coverage on that network. It doesn't mean ESPN ignores them, they just don't make them enough revenue to put them on as much as the SEC.

Many believe ESPN has a bias towards the ACC in basketball. They should. The ACC brings a lot of money to the network and ESPN gives that conference a tremendous amount of coverage during basketball season.

I believe ESPN is pretty fair with Notre Dame - especially given the fact that Notre Dame aligns with NBC sports. ESPN doesn't blow smoke up the Irish's skirt, but outside of the typical Mark May rants, I think most of the coverage on ESPN is pretty fair. Will Notre Dame be the marquee story line most Saturdays on ESPN? No. They don't provide ESPN with the revenue stream other teams do. But I simply don't see this anti-Notre Dame bias that most Irish fans see. I think you have posted somewhat similar opinions of that as well iirc. Just my opinion.
 
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Irish#1

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I'll buy Arkansas. The others are pure lolz

Except for OSU and TCU, I'm not buying much of that poll. Heard a guy (Stewart Mandel?) on CBS sports radio last night. He was pointing out how the SEC was not nearly as good as some media like to project them, then used many of the same points that we discuss as reasons why the hype is wrong.
 

Blaise

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Another question: why does ESPN constantly feel the need to rank teams anyways other than a few talking heads giving their top 10 or whatever? It is their job to REPORT the news, not react to it and even worse create it outside of debate segments. Why did they even create their own rating system?

There is where you are wrong... their job is to get the highest ratings they can... It's why when Jimmy Clausen rolled up to the CF HOF and announced he was coming to ND, it was all over sportscenter....

SEC draws ratings, ND draws ratings, Winston and his antics drew ratings....

I don't have to like it, but that is why the SEC is all over. ESPN job isn't to be fair and cover Colorado the same as Alabama.. They want ratings.. I just hate the bias of SEC beating SEC so everyone is GREAT, but when they lose in bowl games it's because only NC matters...
 

Irish YJ

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Except for OSU and TCU, I'm not buying much of that poll. Heard a guy (Stewart Mandel?) on CBS sports radio last night. He was pointing out how the SEC was not nearly as good as some media like to project them, then used many of the same points that we discuss as reasons why the hype is wrong.

This year will definitely be interesting. More wide open IMO than the last 10 years.
 

IrishSteelhead

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Colin Cowherd

There is where you are wrong... their job is to get the highest ratings they can... It's why when Jimmy Clausen rolled up to the CF HOF and announced he was coming to ND, it was all over sportscenter....



SEC draws ratings, ND draws ratings, Winston and his antics drew ratings....



I don't have to like it, but that is why the SEC is all over. ESPN job isn't to be fair and cover Colorado the same as Alabama.. They want ratings.. I just hate the bias of SEC beating SEC so everyone is GREAT, but when they lose in bowl games it's because only NC matters...


Fair enough, but my main gripe is a fucking TV channel is creating their own flawed ranking system, passing it off as credible (by using a bunch of mumbo jumbo), and sitting back knowing full well people with an actual say in the REAL rankings are watching. It's basically collusion/manipulation/whatever you wanna call it.

*The most important thing in all of this is what does Lebron think? Where are his rankings?
 
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Blaise

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Fair enough, but my main gripe is a fucking TV channel is creating their own flawed ranking system, passing it off as credible (by using a bunch of mumbo jumbo), and sitting back knowing full well people with an actual say in the REAL rankings are watching. It's basically collusion/manipulation/whatever you wanna call it.

100% agree.... If people think that Voters aren't swayed by these preseason ranks, they are nuts...
 

Irish#1

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Fair enough, but my main gripe is a fucking TV channel is creating their own flawed ranking system, passing it off as credible (by using a bunch of mumbo jumbo), and sitting back knowing full well people with an actual say in the REAL rankings are watching. It's basically collusion/manipulation/whatever you wanna call it.

*The most important thing in all of this is what does Lebron think? Where are his rankings?

Self fulfilling prophecy.
 
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wizards8507

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Fair enough, but my main gripe is a fucking TV channel is creating their own flawed ranking system, passing it off as credible (by using a bunch of mumbo jumbo), and sitting back knowing full well people with an actual say in the REAL rankings are watching. It's basically collusion/manipulation/whatever you wanna call it.

100% agree.... If people think that Voters aren't swayed by these preseason ranks, they are nuts...
If the voters ARE swayed by preseason rankings, then THEY are nuts. Isn't that the miracle of "the committee" and all that bullshit everyone was spewing when they tried to convince me that the playoff was the greatest thing to ever come to college sports? That's where you guys should be focusing your energy. If there's an area where ESPN-is-corrupting-college-sports, it's in the idiocy of the playoff system. #WhosIn

Also, FPI is not the same as preseason rankings. ESPN's preseason top-25, as published in the college football preview issue, is:

1. Ohio State
2. TCU
3. Oregon
4. Auburn
5. USC
6. Baylor
7. Alabama
8. Michigan State
9. Georgia
10. Clemson
11. UCLA
12. Notre Dame
13. Arizona
14. Ole Miss
15. Florida State
16. LSU
17. Wisconsin
18. Georgia Tech
19. Arizona State
20. Tennessee
21. Arkansas
22. Boise State
23. Stanford
24. Missouri
25. Louisville

I believe that answers many of the "these rankings are buillshit" issues that people had with the FPI top ten. Namely, we're above LSU, Ole Miss and Arkansas are out of the top ten, and Texas A&M is out of the top 25 entirely. In other words, ESPN's subjective rankings are actually less biased (by y'all's definition of "biased") than their mathematical models.

*The most important thing in all of this is what does Lebron think? Where are his rankings?
Don't forget Tebow, Tiger, and Cuban.
 
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Blaise

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Yes. but this isn't the poll they are throwing all over their shows... It's the one with SEC everywhere and the one where Skip Bayless will say 4 SEC teams deserve in the playoffs
 

wizards8507

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Yes. but this isn't the poll they are throwing all over their shows...
Not a poll.

It's the one with SEC everywhere and the one where Skip Bayless will say 4 SEC teams deserve in the playoffs
Let's wait for Mr. Bayless to say such a thing before we throw him under the bus for having said it. When Finebaum is on the record saying ZERO SEC teams will make the playoff, it'll take some cajones for anyone out there to predict two or three.
 

IrishLion

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I believe the pole doesn't take into account the "SEC Bump" that LSU will get when they start 2-0 with wins over McNeese State and an overrated Mississippi State team. They'll jump from 16 to top 5 just in time for week 3 vs Auburn.

Also doesn't take into account Arkansas' super-soft road to 4-0, potentially 5-0, which will undoubtedly see them enter the top 10, possibly the top 5, for sure.

The rankings seem okay now, sure, but when SEC teams get huge bumps for beating each other, but are barely penalized for losing to each other, THAT IS THE PROBLEM.
 

Cali_domer

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I believe the pole doesn't take into account the "SEC Bump" that LSU will get when they start 2-0 with wins over McNeese State and an overrated Mississippi State team. They'll jump from 16 to top 5 just in time for week 3 vs Auburn.

Also doesn't take into account Arkansas' super-soft road to 4-0, potentially 5-0, which will undoubtedly see them enter the top 10, possibly the top 5, for sure.

The rankings seem okay now, sure, but when SEC teams get huge bumps for beating each other, but are barely penalized for losing to each other, THAT IS THE PROBLEM.
images
 

wizards8507

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I believe the pole doesn't take into account the "SEC Bump" that LSU will get when they start 2-0 with wins over McNeese State and an overrated Mississippi State team. They'll jump from 16 to top 5 just in time for week 3 vs Auburn.

Also doesn't take into account Arkansas' super-soft road to 4-0, potentially 5-0, which will undoubtedly see them enter the top 10, possibly the top 5, for sure.

The rankings seem okay now, sure, but when SEC teams get huge bumps for beating each other, but are barely penalized for losing to each other, THAT IS THE PROBLEM.
None of what you're saying has anything to do with ESPN. It's the nature of the beast when schools make their own schedules with minimal NCAA regulations and rankings are based on the whims of sportswriters, many of whom carry their own biases to the ballot with them.

ESPN would be right along with you in solving one of those problems. If FBS teams were forced to schedule only FBS opponents, that would be great for business, great for fans, great for The Conversation, and great for the game.
 

IrishJayhawk

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100% agree.... If people think that Voters aren't swayed by these preseason ranks, they are nuts...

So your gripe is with every sports media organization on the planet, not with ESPN. They all create these types of polls in order to generate buzz. Just look at what it's done here.
 

Blaise

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So your gripe is with every sports media organization on the planet, not with ESPN. They all create these types of polls in order to generate buzz. Just look at what it's done here.

Yes... I am really against preseason polls before week 7... Let's see teams play before we give them a ranking... Too often we see teams like Miss ranked high, then end year at 6-6 and instead of people saying they weren't that good. They say "Oh the schedule beat them up" and a Team like A&M gets credit in voters mind for beating a top 12 team week 3 when in reality that team was never any good
 

IrishJayhawk

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Yes... I am really against preseason polls before week 7... Let's see teams play before we give them a ranking... Too often we see teams like Miss ranked high, then end year at 6-6 and instead of people saying they weren't that good. They say "Oh the schedule beat them up" and a Team like A&M gets credit in voters mind for beating a top 12 team week 3 when in reality that team was never any good

I agree with all of that. But people are trying to claim that it's specific to ESPN. It generates buzz. How many threads are there on Irish Envy in which people are discussing preseason rankings?
 

wizards8507

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I agree with all of that. But people are trying to claim that it's specific to ESPN. It generates buzz. How many threads are there on Irish Envy in which people are discussing preseason rankings?
Not just specific to ESPN. They're saying it's specific to ESPN and deliberately skewed in favor of the SEC due to ESPN's relationship with the conference.
 

Blaise

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Not just specific to ESPN. They're saying it's specific to ESPN and deliberately skewed in favor of the SEC due to ESPN's relationship with the conference.

I don't believe ESPN does it because of the SEC network.. I think they do it to get ratings... I also think when everyone talks SEC SEC SEC it then builds false hype into teams that directly effects the playoff committee which annoys me to no end. I would much rather have a BCS type system to determine the top 4 teams
 

IrishLion

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Not just specific to ESPN. They're saying it's specific to ESPN and deliberately skewed in favor of the SEC due to ESPN's relationship with the conference.

Exactly. ESPN has an interest in protecting the SEC brand due to their network affiliation. Part of that means the talking heads at ESPN, since there is no legitimate competition, create the reality of college football every time they get on TV and talk. EVERYONE sees this, not just the casual fans. Sportswriters see it, opposing coaches see it, recruits see it, etc.

So of course, when a preseason poll comes out, we see completely undeserving SEC teams in the top 20. Why? Because the talking heads at ESPN love them, despite the actual facts that those teams aren't deserving of the praise they receive.
 

wizards8507

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Exactly. ESPN has an interest in protecting the SEC brand due to their network affiliation. Part of that means the talking heads at ESPN, since there is no legitimate competition, create the reality of college football every time they get on TV and talk. EVERYONE sees this, not just the casual fans. Sportswriters see it, opposing coaches see it, recruits see it, etc.

So of course, when a preseason poll comes out, we see completely undeserving SEC teams in the top 20. Why? Because the talking heads at ESPN love them, despite the actual facts that those teams aren't deserving of the praise they receive.
I'm curious, how do you think this functions, logistically? John Skipper calls up David Pollack and tells him to make sure he talks up how great Georgia's ground game is going to be this year (or else)? And then the sportswriters, rather than using their own brains and eyeballs, doing the thing that is literally their job, dump their integrity out the window and blindly parrot what Pollack says on air?
 
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