Clemson Postgame...

[kmoose]

they had a 1:15hr of a bus ride to the game...one the many things they were looking at as to why they came out soooo slow against clemson...

No italics? That's a pretty weak excuse, if they are seriously considering it.

 

[PANDFAN]

No italics? That's a pretty weak excuse, if they are seriously considering it.

they were talking about all the different things which could have caused it...he just said they were looking at everything..this was one that stuck w/ me because i couldn't fathom why it would have been soo long...unless flooding

 

[Cackalacky]

Can't growth that in SB. You sure can keep it tight to the ground and beat it up. Grows and spreads on the Carolina clay around here too. Baffles me the people that try to force fescue into their yards.

I have centipede here. Its durable and low maintenance but I don't like it. I would love to do bermuda.

 

[RDU Irish]

Yeah, I'm seeding the Bermuda. Might take a while to fill out but it will be so worth it, probably cut my sprinklers down to next to nothing once it is established.

WTF are they doing on a bus that long before a game? Is there nowhere closer they could stay?

 

[pkt77242]

Yeah, I'm seeding the Bermuda. Might take a while to fill out but it will be so worth it, probably cut my sprinklers down to next to nothing once it is established.

WTF are they doing on a bus that long before a game? Is there nowhere closer they could stay?

I am guessing it had to do with the rain, and road closures. Once they knew what the weather was going to be like all the hotels in the area were probably booked so they couldn't move closer. I am sure with that weather that a 15 minute drive normally could have turned into a 75 minute drive.

 

[NDRock]

Yeah, I'm seeding the Bermuda. Might take a while to fill out but it will be so worth it, probably cut my sprinklers down to next to nothing once it is established.

WTF are they doing on a bus that long before a game? Is there nowhere closer they could stay?

I'm in SE Tennessee and have a bermuda lawn. I turn my sprinklers on a couple of times a year so the kids can play with them. It's the best grass out there for this area yet most people here try to force fescue as well. Google "bermuda bible" and there is a pretty good program you can follow.

I believe Clemson spent a bunch of money on a new drainage system for the field. Seemed to work great.

 

[NDohio]

Yeah, I'm seeding the Bermuda. Might take a while to fill out but it will be so worth it, probably cut my sprinklers down to next to nothing once it is established.

WTF are they doing on a bus that long before a game? Is there nowhere closer they could stay?

I really want to make the change to Bermuda. I just moved into a new home and they had put centipede sod down. I hate it.


I don't get the long bus ride. I wonder where they stayed?

 

[koonja]

OMG would you guys stay on topic you're ruining my life how will I survive!

 

[irishfan]

they were talking about all the different things which could have caused it...he just said they were looking at everything..this was one that stuck w/ me because i couldn't fathom why it would have been soo long...unless flooding

Obviously there is no comparison between big time college football and high school ball, but we had 3 schools in our conference in high school that were all 2-3 hour drives away. Literally every time we would make one of those trips, we would start off the game so slow and sluggish.

 

[PANDFAN]

I really want to make the change to Bermuda. I just moved into a new home and they had put centipede sod down. I hate it.


I don't get the long bus ride. I wonder where they stayed?

obviously not at a holiday inn express

 

[MNIrishman]

I am guessing it had to do with the rain, and road closures. Once they knew what the weather was going to be like all the hotels in the area were probably booked so they couldn't move closer. I am sure with that weather that a 15 minute drive normally could have turned into a 75 minute drive.

A 5x time multiplier because of rain alone? I had to drive from Columbus to Lansing last winter during an 8" snowstorm and the time multiplier was like 1.5x. Were that many roads closed? Also, don't they book the hotels ridiculously far in advance? Is it normal for them to stay outside the city where they play?

 

[Wild Bill]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Not smart enough to know if ND tipped its run plays last week. But Clemson held ND to 32 yards on 14 zone-read carries. Well read.</p>— Irish Illustrated (@PeteSampson_) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/651425212781711360">October 6, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Saw this in the Navy thread and thought it was more relevant here. I watched the game with an OSU fan (was actually cheering for ND...when in rome) who thought they were getting tipped off by Kizer. He thought Kizer noticeably squatted down deeper in his stance while calling his cadence on running plays. I noticed he squats a bit on both running and passing plays but I did notice a deeper squat on a couple of runs. I just didn't watch it closely enough to see if it was a pattern. Did anyone else notice it?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Not smart enough to know if ND tipped its run plays last week. But Clemson held ND to 32 yards on 14 zone-read carries. Well read.</p>— Irish Illustrated (@PeteSampson_) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/651425212781711360">October 6, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Saw this in the Navy thread and thought it was more relevant here. I watched the game with an OSU fan (was actually cheering for ND...when in rome) who thought they were getting tipped off by Kizer. He thought Kizer noticeably squatted down deeper in his stance while calling his cadence on running plays. I noticed he squats a bit on both running and passing plays but I did notice a deeper squat on a couple of runs. I just didn't watch it closely enough to see if it was a pattern. Did anyone else notice it?

Murtaugh mentioned this in recent article on OFD, but ever since Zaire went down, we've gone back to faking the Read Option instead of actually reading the defense. That means our run plays are all designed now, which allows opposing defenses to discern and punish our tendencies much more confidently.

 

[Luckylucci]

Murtaugh mentioned this in recent article on OFD, but ever since Zaire went down, we've gone back to faking the Read Option instead of actually reading the defense. That means our run plays are all designed now, which makes allows opposing defenses and discern and punish tendencies must more confidently.

I noticed this when I rewatched the game last night or at least I noticed it on quite a few plays. I guess I was unsure if he was just reading it wrong/tentative to run or he didn't even have a choice.

 

[koonja]

I'm personally not a fan of running Kizer more than 3 times a game. So if they're doing the read option but telling him to give it everytime, I get it. But why not just NOT run the read option then and run a designed run play. Or does it make no difference to how it's blocked?

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

I'm personally not a fan of running Kizer more than 3 times a game. So if they're doing the read option but telling him to give it everytime, I get it. But why not just NOT run the read option then and run a designed run play. Or does it make no difference to how it's blocked?

Kizer is actually pretty fast in stride, but he's practically the definition of "faster than quick". Which generally means he'll be good when he picks his spots and takes off on a broken play rather than on designed runs. I think this has proven true so far in what we've seen.

 

[Hammer Of The Gods]

I'm personally not a fan of running Kizer more than 3 times a game. So if they're doing the read option but telling him to give it everytime, I get it. But why not just NOT run the read option then and run a designed run play. Or does it make no difference to how it's blocked?

This is by far my biggest grip with Kelly and Co. Run what works with the personal you have. why he insist on plugging in players to 'run' what he wants come hell or high water is stupid. This is where ( last year) Urban knew exactly what to do when Cardale came in. He understood what he could do, and let him do it. Kelly? lets run a total half assed version of the zone read no matter what. how about F that, bring in a H-back/Fullback and just hand it off tackle? Instead we make a 45sec pre-determined "read" for a loss (against better comp)

 

[Cackalacky]

Murtaugh mentioned this in recent article on OFD, but ever since Zaire went down, we've gone back to faking the Read Option instead of actually reading the defense. That means our run plays are all designed now, which allows opposing defenses to discern and punish our tendencies much more confidently.

I noticed this when I rewatched the game last night or at least I noticed it on quite a few plays. I guess I was unsure if he was just reading it wrong/tentative to run or he didn't even have a choice.

I made a point on this back on Sunday but in another thread I think. Anyway, I have been noticing since GT that the read option plays are almost always designed handoff. I don't think Kizer is being tasked with reading anything on run plays. It was very plain to me that was the Case in Clemson.

Soooooo..... why?

Now that the cat is out I think we see more of the Kelly offense we all know love.

 

[stlnd01]

This is by far my biggest grip with Kelly and Co. Run what works with the personal you have. why he insist on plugging in players to 'run' what he wants come hell or high water is stupid. This is where ( last year) Urban knew exactly what to do when Cardale came in. He understood what he could do, and let him do it. Kelly? lets run a total half assed version of the zone read no matter what. how about F that, bring in a H-back/Fullback and just hand it off tackle? Instead we make a 45sec pre-determined "read" for a loss (against better comp)

Really? I feel like Kelly's done a pretty good job over the years of tailoring his offense to his personnel. We ran no read option under Tommy Rees, for instance. And spread out the offense to better utilize Golson's legs on draws and scrambles last year.
But it's hard to entirely re-tool mid-season. And, while Kizer may not be Zaire, he is capable of running and poses a credible threat to the defense. Whether we want him actually running, given our depleted state at QB, is a different question.

 

[Cackalacky]

I made a point on this back on Sunday but in another thread I think. Anyway, I have been noticing since GT that the read option plays are almost always designed handoff. I don't think Kizer is being tasked with reading anything on run plays. It was very plain to me that was the Case in Clemson.

Soooooo..... why?

Now that the cat is out I think we see more of the Kelly offense we all know love.

Now that I think about it more it seems to me that BK sucks at hiding his deficiencies or tendencies. If he has been in fact faking the read option, enough so that a weeks worth of film study exposed this.... man....that is depressing

This makes me think of Coach Red Beaulieu reading the "The Idiots Guide to Football" and laughing at Coach Klein.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

This OFD Film Breakdown by pburns2010 explains why we couldn't run against Clemson initially, how we adjusted, and what went wrong on the final 2-point conversion attempt:

Overall, there is plenty to take from this game for the Irish, specifically for the offensive line, as each player across the front had several rough plays against a tough Clemson defense. Luckily for them, Deshone Kizer showed that he has the skills to compete against teams that sell out against the run, but he was hampered in this game by bad turnovers and inclement weather. Moving forward through the rest of the season, I'd expect to see a lot of teams adopt the Clemson gameplan until Kizer makes the defense pay for it. Something to keep an eye on, especially against the lowly but dangerous types (Navy, Temple, and BC) who will likely throw the kitchen sink at the Irish to try and get a victory.

 

[blackirish]

Alabama had a hard time getting up at home for Ole Miss.


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Ole Miss had a hard time getting up for Florida 🍀

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Ole Miss had a hard time getting up for Florida 🍀

Yes they did. Shows you what a new coach can do with talent.


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[NDRock]

Yes they did. Shows you what a new coach can do with talent.


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We'll see if it has staying power or if he's another Muschamp/Hoke type coach who peaks in his first year.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

We'll see if it has staying power or if he's another Muschamp/Hoke type coach who peaks in his first year.

Muschanp, Hoke and Weis


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[NDRock]

Muschanp, Hoke and Weis


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I almost wrote Weis but didn't want to even think about it.

 

[T Town Tommy]

This OFD Film Breakdown by pburns2010 explains why we couldn't run against Clemson initially, how we adjusted, and what went wrong on the final 2-point conversion attempt:

Quote:
Overall, there is plenty to take from this game for the Irish, specifically for the offensive line, as each player across the front had several rough plays against a tough Clemson defense. Luckily for them, Deshone Kizer showed that he has the skills to compete against teams that sell out against the run, but he was hampered in this game by bad turnovers and inclement weather. Moving forward through the rest of the season, I'd expect to see a lot of teams adopt the Clemson gameplan until Kizer makes the defense pay for it. Something to keep an eye on, especially against the lowly but dangerous types (Navy, Temple, and BC) who will likely throw the kitchen sink at the Irish to try and get a victory.

Read this prior to the Clemson game and it seems relevant here.

The Notre Dame-Clemson winner will be a top Playoff contender, but a flawed one - SBNation.com

Notre Dame falls far too easily into passing downs

Good news: Notre Dame ranks first in the nation in Passing Downs S&P+! Bad news: The Irish are facing a lot of passing downs! That can work against defenses like UMass' and Georgia Tech's; it will be harder to pull rabbits out of hats against defenses like those of Clemson, Temple, Boston College and Stanford.

Notre Dame's standard downs success rate is 50.6 percent so far, not awful, but only 50th in the country. Passes to anyone other than Will Fuller are averaging only 10.4 yards per completion, and while negative plays aren't a huge issue, inefficiency has crept in.

Quarterback DeShone Kizer has been absurd in passing situations; he's 11-for-17 for 218 yards on all third downs, but he's 8-for-10 for 146 on third-and-7 or more. When you've got Fuller, you've got one heck of a bailout option. But good defenses are not going to let you off the hook quite as easily.

 

[Legacy]

Read this prior to the Clemson game and it seems relevant here.

The Notre Dame-Clemson winner will be a top Playoff contender, but a flawed one - SBNation.com

A statistical profile of both teams prior to the game can help in some ways, but can be flawed as a predictive tool. I'll link his post game stats at the bottom. So, I'm not sure why you have highlighted what you did.

With demonstrated reading of One Foot Down, the statistical results of the game illustrate the results.
Five Factors Review: Clemson - One Foot Down
Additionally to address some of the passing points in the quote, ND doubled Clemson in explosive plays (16 to 8) despite Fuller being taken out of the game by Alexander (2 receptions for 37 yds). Subtracting Fuller's yardage, ND's other receivers' yds per catch increased to 12.0. Despite the dropped passes, Kizer had a career day with 321 yds despite not throwing to Fuller very much at all. All this was against the top ranked defense now ranked fourth nationally and. We had one less scoring opportunity due to the kickoff fumble. Points per opportunity were 4.0 for ND and 3.43 for Clemson.

Clemson converted 3 of 3 red zone chances, while the Irish converted 2 of 3 due to Brown's fumble. Due to turnovers, Bill C has ND giving up 17.3 points and Clemson gave up 3.

Plus you have Bill Cc post-game article also reflecting statistical results.
Clemson 24, Notre Dame 22: That wasn't an awful 2-point decision, btw - Football Study Hall

 

[IrishinSTL]

Going off Shaq Lawson's post game interview here, for what it's worth. He stated that the ND OLine was tipping run/pass plays for the first 3 quarters. Now that's pretty inexcusable but imagine if they hadn't been tipping their plays... I know this is in hindsight but it gives me some exciting for the future.

 

[ACamp1900]

A statistical profile of both teams prior to the game can help in some ways, but can be flawed as a predictive tool. I'll link his post game stats at the bottom. So, I'm not sure why you have highlighted what you did.

With demonstrated reading of One Foot Down, the statistical results of the game illustrate the results.
Five Factors Review: Clemson - One Foot Down
Additionally to address some of the passing points in the quote, ND doubled Clemson in explosive plays (16 to 8) despite Fuller being taken out of the game by Alexander (2 receptions for 37 yds). Subtracting Fuller's yardage, ND's other receivers' yds per catch increased to 12.0. Despite the dropped passes, Kizer had a career day with 321 yds despite not throwing to Fuller very much at all. All this was against the top ranked defense now ranked fourth nationally and. We had one less scoring opportunity due to the kickoff fumble. Points per opportunity were 4.0 for ND and 3.43 for Clemson.

Clemson converted 3 of 3 red zone chances, while the Irish converted 2 of 3 due to Brown's fumble. Due to turnovers, Bill C has ND giving up 17.3 points and Clemson gave up 3.

Plus you have Bill Cc post-game article also reflecting statistical results.
Clemson 24, Notre Dame 22: That wasn't an awful 2-point decision, btw - Football Study Hall

Going off Shaq Lawson's post game interview here, for what it's worth. He stated that the ND OLine was tipping run/pass plays for the first 3 quarters. Now that's pretty inexcusable but imagine if they hadn't been tipping their plays... I know this is in hindsight but it gives me some exciting for the future.

Stuff like this makes me feel worse about the game than had they just been flat beaten through lack of talent... ND seems to clearly have the better team... and still found some way to lose.