BVG Fired

IrishBroker

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1. Might consider this just to shut other fans up who always complain about us being independent. "ND has to realize they are not special anymore and need to join a conference". Check comments on ESPN after ever loss, this will pop up. No were not in a conference cause we don't need it. Were gonna be on national TV next week at 1-3 against Syracuse. No one other team would get that treatment. We would get it Indy or not.

2. Similar situation. Other fans don't give ND credit for their academic situation and recruiting restrictions. A lot will praise Stanford, and other schools like Northwestern or even Vandy in the damn SEC. But never ND. In fact they will say some BS like ND constantly finishes top 5 in recruiting and never produces. When in fact I don't believe we had a consensus top 5 class since that woefully disappointing 2008 class.

My comment on the conference wasn't directed at our fan base...it's about positioning within the college football playoffs. I know we "don't need it" when it comes to national exposure, and I enjoy the scheduling flexibility, but at least in a conference we can win a conference and not be left out. Because the CFP is not leaving out a one loss, conference champ, Notre Dame team.

And I don't mean open the flood gates and let every idiot in. But allow some JuCo guys that fit, and maybe allow a boarderline kid who is just on edge.
 

GATTACA!

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1. Join a conference. I am one of the biggest fans of independence, but it's clear that we need to start moving forward as a program. We will always get left out with a loss, in favor of a power 5. After Texas, we were sunk, and everyone here knew it. But if we were in a power 5 conference, we win that title and we are likely in.(permitting we won the rest of the way, but you get my point)

2. Lower the standards for football players. If we want to win big, not just 9 wins and a meaningless bowl game, then we need to start allowing those who are borderline, into our program. It will not hurt the program to allow a few through the cracks that have good character, but grades that aren't perfect. Or we can just accept that we won't compete year in and year out and get lucky once every 10-15 yrs or so. With Juco transfers, over signing, and easier standards at other schools, it's impressive that we've managed to stay relevant for this long.

3. Take Juco transfers. I have no idea why we don't. Other than our own ego.

Big pass on #1.

Past due on #2 and #3.
 

Rack Em

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1. Join a conference. I am one of the biggest fans of independence, but it's clear that we need to start moving forward as a program. We will always get left out with a loss, in favor of a power 5. After Texas, we were sunk, and everyone here knew it. But if we were in a power 5 conference, we win that title and we are likely in.(permitting we won the rest of the way, but you get my point)

2. Lower the standards for football players. If we want to win big, not just 9 wins and a meaningless bowl game, then we need to start allowing those who are borderline, into our program. It will not hurt the program to allow a few through the cracks that have good character, but grades that aren't perfect. Or we can just accept that we won't compete year in and year out and get lucky once every 10-15 yrs or so. With Juco transfers, over signing, and easier standards at other schools, it's impressive that we've managed to stay relevant for this long.

3. Take Juco transfers. I have no idea why we don't. Other than our own ego.

I worked my ass off to transfer to ND as a regular student. It's an insult to those of us who busted tail to get into ND after being rejected once. And, not to mention, there is no JUCO in the world that will prepare one for the rigors of being an ND student, much less an ND student-athlete.
 

Ndaccountant

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1. Join a conference. I am one of the biggest fans of independence, but it's clear that we need to start moving forward as a program. We will always get left out with a loss, in favor of a power 5. After Texas, we were sunk, and everyone here knew it. But if we were in a power 5 conference, we win that title and we are likely in.(permitting we won the rest of the way, but you get my point)

2. Lower the standards for football players. If we want to win big, not just 9 wins and a meaningless bowl game, then we need to start allowing those who are borderline, into our program. It will not hurt the program to allow a few through the cracks that have good character, but grades that aren't perfect. Or we can just accept that we won't compete year in and year out and get lucky once every 10-15 yrs or so. With Juco transfers, over signing, and easier standards at other schools, it's impressive that we've managed to stay relevant for this long.

3. Take Juco transfers. I have no idea why we don't. Other than our own ego.

Just a question, but do you view the University as "being there" to field a football team? Some of the things you have been posting today are so far skewed to "whatever it takes" I am not exactly sure why you are a fan of ND to being with. We all want the team to win and win big. But I am not certain you understand what the University stands for besides "winning".
 

IrishBroker

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Just a question, but do you view the University as "being there" to field a football team? Some of the things you have been posting today are so far skewed to "whatever it takes" I am not exactly sure why you are a fan of ND to being with. We all want the team to win and win big. But I am not certain you understand what the University stands for besides "winning".

This is a discussion board about the football team, correct?


And I'm presenting ideas. Because, to me, if we continue down this path, we will remain where we are. Are they perfect ideas? No. In fact, I expected for most to disagree because the status quo is much easier to maintain.

But I don't see the problem with the football program as being with recruits or coaching(at least all of it)...it's the university. If you are fine with that, then ok.

But given all the disadvantages, I'd say it might be time to look at some other options or enhancing our own position. So as much as we can blame the coaches and players, we also must take a look at the university as a whole, when dissecting what is wrong.
 

IrishBroker

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I worked my ass off to transfer to ND as a regular student. It's an insult to those of us who busted tail to get into ND after being rejected once. And, not to mention, there is no JUCO in the world that will prepare one for the rigors of being an ND student, much less an ND student-athlete.

Could you throw a football as well as Cam Newton?

I could list some pretty good Juco transfers that schools have utilized in the past.

And I'm betting there are PLENTY of kids out there that could make it at ND. What if it's a money issue for them? You don't know their situation, so I think it's unfair to label all "juco's" as not worthy of ND consideration (there's that ivory tower talk). You act as if some of those kids aren't busting their ass and probably dealing with problems of their own.

All I'm saying is to revisit that and see what's out there.
 

mick2

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I worked my ass off to transfer to ND as a regular student. It's an insult to those of us who busted tail to get into ND after being rejected once. And, not to mention, there is no JUCO in the world that will prepare one for the rigors of being an ND student, much less an ND student-athlete.

Can you explain this? You were a transfer, but are against other transfers? not being smart, just really want to know your argument.
 

greyhammer90

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I worked my ass off to transfer to ND as a regular student. It's an insult to those of us who busted tail to get into ND after being rejected once. And, not to mention, there is no JUCO in the world that will prepare one for the rigors of being an ND student, much less an ND student-athlete.

No offense but a non-transfer ND student could make the exact same "I worked hard to get here, why should they get it easier" argument to keep non-transfer football player standards just as high as regular students. That doesn't happen because it would be suicide for the program. Its a greater good situation.
 

gkIrish

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Can you explain this? You were a transfer, but are against other transfers? not being smart, just really want to know your argument.

JUCOs presumably would not be subject to the same strict requirements that normal transfer students must achieve.
 

mick2

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JUCOs presumably would not be subject to the same strict requirements that normal transfer students must achieve.

Ok and if that presumption were correct, a juco getting in with slightly less strict requirements tarnishes the degree of the other students who got in with tougher requirements? is that the idea?
 

irishff1014

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gkIrish

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Ok and if that presumption were correct, a juco getting in with slightly less strict requirements tarnishes the degree of the other students who got in with tougher requirements? is that the idea?

Yes and presumably there would be less spots available for regular transfers. Probably other reasons I'm not thinking of right now.
 

Meatloaf

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My understanding is that the main issue with JUCO players is credit hours not transferring to ND, thus putting them behind schedule to graduate relative to non transfers. Don't think ND wants to mess with grad rates.
 

Irish#1

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Could you throw a football as well as Cam Newton?

I could list some pretty good Juco transfers that schools have utilized in the past.

And I'm betting there are PLENTY of kids out there that could make it at ND. What if it's a money issue for them? You don't know their situation, so I think it's unfair to label all "juco's" as not worthy of ND consideration (there's that ivory tower talk). You act as if some of those kids aren't busting their ass and probably dealing with problems of their own.

All I'm saying is to revisit that and see what's out there.

I see you're fairly new to this board. The Juco and lower grades standards have been hashed and rehashed multiple times. Discussing again doesn't get anyone excited.
 
B

Bogtrotter07

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I know it's not the most popular opinion, but I am definitely on this train. There are several reasons, but the one you are stating here is a big one.


If Jack came down and instructed BK to make this decision, I am really curious how BK responds to that. He seems like the kind of guy that wouldn't take that well and it may be the beginning of a tumultuous relationship between Jack and BK.

Gonna be a long and interesting season...

I would bet damned near my bottom dollar, especially after the Post-Duke press conference, that Brian Kelly is on the same kind of probation that Charlie Weis was for the 2009 season.

That sort of show me the results kind of performance oriented management initiative.

I further believe that Brian Kelly will have to the end of the season to right the ship, full well knowing that discrete inquiries are currently being made.

Here is why this should be the case, whether it is or not :

Start with tight-end talent; You let a franchise talent become ineligible? Beyond the player's obvious responsibility, whose job is that? And is that the first good example of entitlement rearing its ugly head with this team?
ND has acquired some of the best assistant talent in the business, and have stocked the cupboards with administrative staff, non coaching assistants, scientists, etc., to provide a better more competitive team, but what do the results show?
ND has indicated that they are 100% pleased, and other than a few 'longshots' have inked every recruit they were after, including continually better (ratings) classes, with more young players being able to contribute earlier.
Joe Schmidt started last year. There is no excuse for that one fact. Any coach worth a shit should have gone on strike, before letting that happen. And that was the beginning, so after five humiliating wins Brian Kelly is going to let underclassmen have a shot at starting over those entrenched on the two deep?
So does that mean that the coach favorites played before?
Brian VanGorder and Keith Gilmore came to the point of blows on the sideline (at I believe the Nevada game.) During the MSU game, or just after there was a tremendous blow up between two or more of the coaches, which was really quieted down quickly. It caused ND to do less than a stellar job with the recruitment of a number of prospects that weekend. This is unacceptable.
I am a football idiot when it comes to the backend of defenses. Even I saw that everyone since Clemson last year would work their receiver patterns to draw down safety help over the top so a corner would be caught one on with a receiver that could go deep, or across the middle with no help. Play action cannot kill a brilliant defense so easily, and not have anyone that can do something about it, recognize it before almost a season of games transpires.
The head coach calls players out individually in a postgame press conference, with that all or nothing, (defeated kneejerk mentality.) Would you want to play for a guy like Saturday's Kelly?

The list goes on, but I am tired of compiling it. This is more than enough. Any competent senior manager would not put up with this for a minute and would have a performance plan smoking off the press and in place.
 

Irish Insanity

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Anyone see Morgan Van Gorders Tweet. I wish I knew how to attach a pic.
When I use Tapatalk now I just screen shot them and post as a pic. Hers were discussed yesterday but when I looked this morning her account is now set to private and nothing can be seen.
 

Kingbish01

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When I use Tapatalk now I just screen shot them and post as a pic. Hers were discussed yesterday but when I looked this morning her account is now set to private and nothing can be seen.

I missed that yesterday. My buddy just sent it to me an an email, I thought it was funny. She must have been watching different games.
 

Ndaccountant

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This is a discussion board about the football team, correct?


And I'm presenting ideas. Because, to me, if we continue down this path, we will remain where we are. Are they perfect ideas? No. In fact, I expected for most to disagree because the status quo is much easier to maintain.

But I don't see the problem with the football program as being with recruits or coaching(at least all of it)...it's the university. If you are fine with that, then ok.

But given all the disadvantages, I'd say it might be time to look at some other options or enhancing our own position. So as much as we can blame the coaches and players, we also must take a look at the university as a whole, when dissecting what is wrong.

Why must it change? If anything, Stanford has proven that high admission standards and football can coexist. Yes, their football players allegedly have lower academic hurdles than ND, but they still have to recruit differently than USC, Oregon, etc. They have a winning recipe and have baked one hell of a cake. ND just has not had it click for an extended time under BK. But if he has proven anything, it is that ND can and will be elite again with the right coach. The problems aren't what you are hinting at. It's coaching, including recruiting, player retention and development. Calling for admissions and JUCO's are the easy way out. Not to mention the point that the problem with ND lately hasn't been getting guys in, it's been keeping them at ND and eligible. FFS, look at the academic casualties over the years and you want to bring in kids with lower admission profiles? Ha! Might as well root for A&M.
 
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Irish Insanity

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I missed that yesterday. My buddy just sent it to me an an email, I thought it was funny. She must have been watching different games.
I know there was a fuck BK & NDFootball or something like that. And that was an hour before it was announced. She also had 2 tweets before that about turnovers and the offense and something else anti ND football. You gotta be smarter than that. I mean your dad is/was a coordinator at a national D1 school. Getting paid 1 mil plus a year. And your brother is still on the team.
 

Kingbish01

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I know there was a fuck BK & NDFootball or something like that. And that was an hour before it was announced. She also had 2 tweets before that about turnovers and the offense and something else anti ND football. You gotta be smarter than that. I mean your dad is/was a coordinator at a national D1 school. Getting paid 1 mil plus a year. And your brother is still on the team.

She tweeted "ND Fans are a joke" "F@ck @Notredame @NDfootball FIRE @coachbriankelly!!" and "@edsbs finally someone start talking about the offense! Turnovers a killer and special teams giving up TD's. Lots of ignorant fans"
 

IrishBroker

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She tweeted "ND Fans are a joke" "F@ck @Notredame @NDfootball FIRE @coachbriankelly!!" and "@edsbs finally someone start talking about the offense! Turnovers a killer and special teams giving up TD's. Lots of ignorant fans"

Good grief. Keep that you-know-what on a leash, BVG. She may cost you another job.
 

IrishBroker

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Why must it change? If anything, Stanford has proven that high admission standards and football can coexist. Yes, their football players allegedly have lower academic hurdles than ND, but they still have to recruit differently than USC, Oregon, etc. They have a winning recipe and have baked one hell of a cake. ND just has not had it click for an extended time under BK. But if he has proven anything, it is that ND can and will be elite again with the right coach. The problems aren't what you are hinting at. It's coaching, including recruiting, player retention and development. Calling for admissions and JUCO's are the easy way out. Not to mention the point that the problem with ND lately hasn't been getting guys in, it's been keeping them at ND and eligible. FFS, look at the academic casualties over the years and you want to bring in kids with lower admission profiles? Ha! Might as well root for A&M.

What has Stanford won, again? They also haven't won any titles. Nice team, nice program, but they are absolute bridesmaids. 3 BCS wins, 2 were against crap teams (VT and Iowa)

And this goes back far longer than just under BK..since Holtz left we've been trapped at this level (except 2012)

And Why is it feast or famine? I'm simply saying that we let in a few guys that are on the cusp and get them some extra help...I'm not suggesting to let every moron in.
 

connor_in

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="und" dir="ltr"><a href="https://t.co/nwBrTA3yrz">pic.twitter.com/nwBrTA3yrz</a></p>— SPENCER HALL (@edsbs) <a href="https://twitter.com/edsbs/status/780096881351196672">September 25, 2016</a></blockquote>
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