Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

[tko]

This aged well.

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Contract extension!!!!!

 

[ARALOU]

Did he just say where do we go from here? Who knows? we got one more game to play. Sounds ominous.

 

[Bluto]

Watching LSU stomp on AtM’s nuts.

Wonder if the Aggie fans have a Jimbo Fischer revisited thread. Haha.

 

[Meatloaf]

Watching LSU stomp on AtM’s nuts.

Wonder if the Aggie fans have a Jimbo Fischer revisited thread. Haha.

For the amount of money they threw at him, I wouldn't blame them. Their schedule is brutal, but they've also regressed a lot.

 

[BGIF]

Not to beat a banned horse, but I'd argue it's even okay to be irrational on this board. you just can't be a complete ass-hat. As a former volume-poster turned mostly lurker, that guy was the absolute worst.

He was a troll. Came on the board half a dozen years ago but only had a few post until a couple of weeks ago. I went back through his posts and whether they were from his first year or last week they were all whine.

He offered nothing but whine.

 

[ACamp1900]

When you know something interesting happened on IE but you’re staring middle aged in the face and are too tired to read back to figure out what,.....

 

[irishnd31]

When you know something interesting happened on IE but you’re staring middle aged in the face and are too tired to read back to figure out what,.....

Lol

 

[Irishize]

For the amount of money they threw at him, I wouldn't blame them. Their schedule is brutal, but they've also regressed a lot.

It was a gauntlet but that just helped them remain overrated. Jimbo & Co are still a year or two away. Probably a year if you take a gander at their 2020 schedule. They should be 10-0 when they travel to T-Town. I’d say the Scheduling Gods made up for this year.

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

Really wild man I expect better from you...


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I hear ya. But, regardless of that 1st half I’m still at a crossroads. To be honest, I’m frustrated with the reality of having to accept a season like this or a quick exit from the playoffs being our peak.

BK has obviously turned this program around and revamped the rosters with some talent over the years. I look back at the recruiting classes Bob, Ty and Charlie put together and barring a handful of gamers Charlie brought in, they are God awful.

I have a ton of respect for Kelly’s ability to recruit & hire solid coaches and what he’s done over the last decade. He made ND football exciting again.

And frankly, I’m not even sure it’s a “him” issue as much as it’s an admissions issue.

I think ND has the name/brand recognition to attract any and all recruits but we simply can’t sign them.

Do you honestly see us competing with the ELITE teams for a NC? Are you watching LSU dismantle A&M right now? Look at their DL rotations and tell me where Kurt Hinish would fit in.

LSU, Bama, Ohio St, Clemson - we can come close but we simply can’t field comparable rosters.

Has Kelly taken modern day Notre Dame football as far as it can go?

 

[Old Man Mike]

"Frankly I'm not even sure it's a "him"issue as much as it's an admissions issue." .... DUH.

.... and the Sun rose up on Easter Morning.

 

[Circa]

Watching LSU stomp on AtM’s nuts.

Wonder if the Aggie fans have a Jimbo Fischer revisited thread. Haha.

If they don't... After the cupboard that he ran from in Tallahassee...

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I met an Aggie fan once... He was a long distance runner, and It was odd.

 

[Bishop2b5]

"Frankly I'm not even sure it's a "him"issue as much as it's an admissions issue." .... DUH.

.... and the Sun rose up on Easter Morning.

I'm not asking this to make a point or be a smart ass. I'm genuinely uninformed and seeking enlightenment. How did ND recruit so many 5-star/AA/Heisman types back in the 60's & 70's with these admission restrictions, or were they less restrictive then?

 

[Circa]

I'm not asking this to make a point or be a smart ass. I'm genuinely uninformed and seeking enlightenment. How did ND recruit so many 5-star/AA/Heisman types back in the 60's & 70's with these admission restrictions, or were they less restrictive then?

It was posted in an earlier thread @ an earlier time.
Whoever posted It was on to something.
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48



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposition_48_(NCAA)

Notre Dame follows rules and then tells on themselves.
It's an old family secret that keeps good kids coming back......
As is obvious. BK tried the RKG's and found the trouble that other's don't.
This type of understanding is not that hard to understand....

 

[Bishop2b5]

It was posted in an earlier thread @ an earlier time.
Whoever posted It was on to something.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposition_48_(NCAA)

Notre Dame follows rules and then tells on themselves.
It's an old family secret that keeps good kids coming back......
As is obvious. BK tried the RKG's and found the trouble that other's don't.
This type of understanding is not that hard to understand....

"We do it the right way and nobody else does" isn't really a valid explanation for several reasons. If nothing else, all the other programs were more lawless in the 60's & 70's and there were fewer scholarship restrictions, less oversight, fewer academic standards for recruits, and a lot less emphasis on the student part of student-athlete for the other programs. Teams could recruit players who were freakishly talented but couldn't read or do academic work at even a 6th grade level and never make them attend a single class (and there were programs that did that). ND would've been at a MUCH greater disadvantage then than now.

I understand you guys are handicapped to a degree by academic standards when it comes to recruiting. I'm just trying to get a reasonable answer as to how you fielded such good teams back in the day. Was it coaching, different admissions standards for players, luck, or what?

 

[DogDaysIrish]

ND is an antiquated model on the athletic fields. Either change the standards, or it's mediocre football from here on out. Social media and eased standards at football factories are much more fun to play at. Kids today don't want to work...they want a path to the league.

 

[stlnd01]

"We do it the right way and nobody else does" isn't really a valid explanation for several reasons. If nothing else, all the other programs were more lawless in the 60's & 70's and there were fewer scholarship restrictions, less oversight, fewer academic standards for recruits, and a lot less emphasis on the student part of student-athlete for the other programs. Teams could recruit players who were freakishly talented but couldn't read or do academic work at even a 6th grade level and never make them attend a single class (and there were programs that did that). ND would've been at a MUCH greater disadvantage then than now.

I understand you guys are handicapped to a degree by academic standards when it comes to recruiting. I'm just trying to get a reasonable answer as to how you fielded such good teams back in the day. Was it coaching, different admissions standards for players, luck, or what?

A few difference between “now” and “then.”:

- Fewer big time programs/less money: Theres so much more money in college football now, and any school that decides it wants to go after it can compete. You didn’t have, say, Oregon, bankrolled by one wealthy donor and soon good enough to compete at the highest levels. There were just fewer big-time programs.

- Scholarship caps. It was, I think, the 80s when the NCAA capped scholarships at 85 per team. Before that the best teams Hoovered up all the good players. And no one transferred out, either.

- Demographics. A higher share of the talented kids were from the Midwest, and Catholic, and thus more likely to go to Notre Dame. Now so many of the best recruits are Southerners, and everyone recruits nationally.

- Race. Well into the 60s, at least, many Southern teams remained all white, while Midwestern teams recruited talented black kids. Alan Page was an All-American for Notre Dame in 1966. This eventually changed, but was a factor in the 60s.

- And, yeah, academics. Notre Dame has long been a good school, but didn’t really consider itself an “elite” academic institution, with all that implies, until probably the 80s/early 90s. There was a give-and-take with admissions that probably kept some borderline kids on the team even in the Holtz years, but faded when Monk Malloy took over and then Davie, who didn’t have the political capital of Holtz, became coach.

 

[Circa]

"We do it the right way and nobody else does" isn't really a valid explanation for several reasons. If nothing else, all the other programs were more lawless in the 60's & 70's and there were fewer scholarship restrictions, less oversight, fewer academic standards for recruits, and a lot less emphasis on the student part of student-athlete for the other programs. Teams could recruit players who were freakishly talented but couldn't read or do academic work at even a 6th grade level and never make them attend a single class (and there were programs that did that). ND would've been at a MUCH greater disadvantage then than now.

I understand you guys are handicapped to a degree by academic standards when it comes to recruiting. I'm just trying to get a reasonable answer as to how you fielded such good teams back in the day. Was it coaching, different admissions standards for players, luck, or what?

Now you are on to something.
(can we agree on the aggressive way the commentators and lack of good officiating negates our performance)


I know for a fact:
If kids want to work on Academics as well as being of high standards and improving themselves, they will have an opportunity to play for Our Irish!!
Football players at the high school level love the possibility of coming to our school without question.
The problem is.... a lot of negative recruiting and terrible media attention forces the thought of - it as a place they couldn't possibly get into and....(why should I work so hard If I could go.........). Blah.. Please let me grey shirt and I promise I won't talk.... about my mom's new Benz...
We are talking about something that Is depression in its simplest form.
I do like your posts, and I love seeing the other side try to explain why they think we are good....

After your be-loved Saban team lost....




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[Dizzyphil]

I'm not asking this to make a point or be a smart ass. I'm genuinely uninformed and seeking enlightenment. How did ND recruit so many 5-star/AA/Heisman types back in the 60's & 70's with these admission restrictions, or were they less restrictive then?

It was posted in an earlier thread @ an earlier time.
Whoever posted It was on to something.
<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/l0DAG5jJ7kCo22zbW" class="giphy-embed" allowfullscreen="" width="480" height="360" frameborder="0"></iframe><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/soultrain-soul-train-episode-235-l0DAG5jJ7kCo22zbW"
48



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposition_48_(NCAA)

Notre Dame follows rules and then tells on themselves.
It's an old family secret that keeps good kids coming back......
As is obvious. BK tried the RKG's and found the trouble that other's don't.
This type of understanding is not that hard to understand....

In layman's (alabama) terms, what they are saying is, back then - Notre Dame was able to stoop as low as alabama to recruit players the same way alabama still does now



does that make sense?

 

[ARALOU]

I am still of the opinion that many more kids are playing because of relaxed qualifications and requirements. Notre Dame has a tough admission requirement compared to many football factories. Back in the 70s, 80s, 90s, you had the weeks before bowl games when mid-term grades came in. Many players became ineligible. Sometimes big name players. When was the last time you heard about a kid anywhere sitting out a bowl game because of grades? I know that back in the day you had exceptions but for the most part I think the eligibility regarding grades and school work was taken more seriously back then than now.
Plus you had the non-existent scholly total. Some schools would sign guys just because they did not want to play against them. Diluting the pool of players. It was harder to transfer. It seems to me you almost had to have some kind of hardship to qualify for a transfer until the last several years changed all that. There are more football factories. More tv coverage for everyone. More kids eligible to play. Many of the kids are just now seeing a relevant Irish program, with interest in attending. How soon we forget the annual disappointment from say 96 to 2010 or so. With the exception of a season or two, ND was almost a punchline from 2000-2010. I think it is a hard sell to play football at Notre Dame if you are going after super elite talent. Super elite talent is not interested in a Notre Dame degree. They are interested in getting to the NFL. There are ND type elite players out there but there are fewer of them. If a kid can maintain a decent grade with little effort at a football factory and wants to play football, not play school. Where do you think he will choose?

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

"Frankly I'm not even sure it's a "him"issue as much as it's an admissions issue." .... DUH.

.... and the Sun rose up on Easter Morning.

Yet to be proven that Kelly can win with an unrestricted roster. He shoulders plenty of the blame here.

Also, GFY with that bullsh*t response.

 

[Circa]

In layman's (alabama) terms, what they are saying is, back then - Notre Dame was able to stoop as low as alabama to recruit players the same way alabama still does now



does that make sense?

sense...We all understand certain unalienable's...


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[Bishop2b5]

Some good answers and I appreciate the time you guys took to enlighten me and share your views. stlnd01's answer was especially good and brought up a couple of reasons I hadn't thought about.

 

[Circa]

Some good answers and I appreciate the time you guys took to enlighten me and share your views. stlnd01's answer was especially good and brought up a couple of reasons I hadn't thought about.

Notre Dame needs this attitude....
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Then I see Interviews done by any Official.....
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Then there Is you......

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[Luckylucci]

Honestly fellas you drive me nuts. We’re going 10-2 and just beat Stanford on the road for the first time in a decade and you can’t be happy. Not all, but too many.

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

10-2 is mediocre?
Only one team is truly happy at the end of the year... ONE.

There's nothing wrong with winning 10 games ever year and making the playoffs every few seasons.

 

[irishff1014]

Honestly fellas you drive me nuts. We’re going 10-2 and just beat Stanford on the road for the first time in a decade and you can’t be happy. Not all, but too many.

He and staff did exactly what we asked them to do. Win double digits in multiple seasons to help recruiting and they did that. Obviously the blow out was not expected but it happened. And still did it against an above average schedule again.

 

[IrishLax]

Bama with all their talent and their easy schedule just went 10-2 and beat zero ranked teams. It’s hard to win in college football. People have their perception clouded by the Michigan debacle.

Bottom line: this team was a couple plays away from either 11-1 or 9-3. In nine of their games they were basically able to put the opponent away with a multi-score lead before their last 4th quarter possession. To contend for championships, you first have to build this kind of foundation of consistent winning. They’ve now won 10+ games four out of the last five years. How do you take the next step? Keep improving what is working, and upgrade skill position talent. I’m a big fan of who we already have signed up in the next two classes, and we have got to keep building on that.

 

[Circa]

Bama with all their talent and their easy schedule just went 10-2 and beat zero ranked teams. It’s hard to win in college football. People have their perception clouded by the Michigan debacle.

Bottom line: this team was a couple plays away from either 11-1 or 9-3. In nine of their games they were basically able to put the opponent away with a multi-score lead before their last 4th quarter possession. To contend for championships, you first have to build this kind of foundation of consistent winning. They’ve now won 10+ games four out of the last five years. How do you take the next step? Keep improving what is working, and upgrade skill position talent. I’m a big fan of who we already have signed up in the next two classes, and we have got to keep building on that.

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I thought that was funny.....

 

[FDNYIrish1]

BK is a damn good, frustrating as hell coach and I’m glad he’s here. We have reached a level of consistency we were begging for just a few years back. Every year is a minefield and I think he’s done a good job maneuvering through it. Every fan base has to deal with frustrating and head scratching losses just about every year. Michigan still burns my ass but it was one hiccup in an otherwise well prepared but imperfect team. There is talent here and coming back next year and for the foreseeable future. I’m going to choose to stay positive and realize what these kids have accomplished. And yes,I will always call out BK and the staff when needed.

We’ve got a good coaching staff and recruiting has definitely picked up. Hopefully some of those skill players want to jump aboard.

 

[Old Man Mike]

One starting point to give us a far wider pool to recruit into would be to drop the second language requirement. That "skill" wasn't even required pragmatically for my PhD studies let alone for undergraduate success in life. There are probably hundreds of good athletes per year who don't get in the HS classrooms for a second language or can't/won't pass with a decent grade.

I wouldn't be surprised if this alone shrinks the recruiting pool (especially for athletes from low income school districts or even high-obsession football districts) by very large percentages. And no one wants to say this, but a lot of the speed/power recruits everywhere around the country's power football programs come from these exact "school" districts. ... and, yes, there's a racial statistic to this.

ND succeeded despite the higher standards in the old days because so many pipelines existed to feed elite players to our program. Football got bigger wealthier and more of a midnight business chasing elite jocks whether they could read or not. I recall the moment that hit for me: Bear Bryant recruits a big talent back named Wilver something-or-other, and was beginning to break the Alabama "no coloreds" policy --- even Alabama fans didn't initially agree with their beloved Bear Icon on that. But the back ran wild and they decided that it was a good thing after all.

Bryant made the mistake of allowing the media to interview this fellow after a game. He could barely make sentences. His main statement was (and this is spelled to indicate the sound of the words used): "Coat Brynt say --- I get ball, I gone." Bryant cut that interview short, mercifully.

That type of non-educated athlete can run by you or through you but he can't come within light years of getting into Notre Dame. He still CAN get into a LOT of power schools though. He can be recruited --- Coach Kelly can't even bother. Look at the top recruits in the nation every year when it's still early in recruiting. Lots of them don't even have a Notre Dame offer --- we can't even try. Even a really good guy like the current USC RB (Stepp) can get into USC but not here.

The Old Days: ND was such a fantasy in football that parents had ND and almost nothing but ND in mind as their rare athletic+intelligent kid went to high school, that the steps towards ND were almost a given if the kid was mentally and athletically good enough.