Bitcoin

[Sherm Sticky]

one of the unique things on bitcoin is the decentralized nature and power of millions of independent CPUs, computers all over the world, so there really cant be a "crash" of servers etc. maybe for bitcoin "copycat cryptocurrenies", but not bitcoin.

Not CPU but GPU. CPU is to smart for mining and doesn’t process dumb repeating task that well.


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[Sherm Sticky]

It seems the inflation of BTC is causing ALT (alternative) Coins price to go down.

The marker is going to correct itself. It has to correct itself


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[SouthSideChiDomer]

It seems the inflation of BTC is causing ALT (alternative) Coins price to go down.

The marker is going to correct itself. It has to correct itself


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I've been wondering about it correcting itself and I don't know how its going to happen. There are no underlying financials that can tell you its not worth as much as its selling for like with stock of a company. There also doesn't seem to be any downward pressure that can be applied through shorting when more people think its going to go down. Its like the only thing determining the price is psychological factors from those buying. I think its in a bubble and is going to come down, but I just can't predict how.

This might be something that we study for years to come with the rise of cryptocurrencies. I firmly believe that any time we don't see how something is going to fail, the bigger the failure will be when it happens.

 

[notredomer23]

Didn't realize, but a whole slew of countries have already made all things Bitcoin illegal, including India.

The Fed is coming.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

I've been wondering about it correcting itself and I don't know how its going to happen. There are no underlying financials that can tell you its not worth as much as its selling for like with stock of a company. There also doesn't seem to be any downward pressure that can be applied through shorting when more people think its going to go down. Its like the only thing determining the price is psychological factors from those buying. I think its in a bubble and is going to come down, but I just can't predict how.



This might be something that we study for years to come with the rise of cryptocurrencies. I firmly believe that any time we don't see how something is going to fail, the bigger the failure will be when it happens.

Very well written.

I’ll toss an idea out. Now that BTC seems to be mainstream there are a lot of new investors who have zero understanding of the technology. More and more phishing sites/links are being setup and these noobs are ripe for the taking to have their BTC stolen. Also with some of these cloud wallets it’s a hackers paradise. Not to mention if the cloud wallet company goes under or pulls an exit scam, everyone can say bye bye to their BTC. Then crypto currencies get a bad name and the market crashes...All plausible I think.


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[nlroma1o]

I've been wondering about it correcting itself and I don't know how its going to happen. There are no underlying financials that can tell you its not worth as much as its selling for like with stock of a company. There also doesn't seem to be any downward pressure that can be applied through shorting when more people think its going to go down. Its like the only thing determining the price is psychological factors from those buying. I think its in a bubble and is going to come down, but I just can't predict how.

This might be something that we study for years to come with the rise of cryptocurrencies. I firmly believe that any time we don't see how something is going to fail, the bigger the failure will be when it happens.

This is exactly my next question. What traditional tools/indicators can we apply to crypto-currencies market behavior? They don't act like normal financial products to begin with, so how could we possibly try to decipher them?

 

[SouthSideChiDomer]

This is exactly my next question. What traditional tools/indicators can we apply to crypto-currencies market behavior? They don't act like normal financial products to begin with, so how could we possibly try to decipher them?

Yeah, this is the problem. I don't think we can know. Some people might be able to guess, but many more are probably going to guess wrong. I think whatever happen, many studies will examine what markers there could have been and we will probably see a slew of new markers created just for cryptocurrencies.

Two of the biggest things that I see on the horizon that could chance cryptocurrencies are the listing on the CBOE for futures, potentially providing downward pressure, and the Venezuelan government creating a commodity backed national cryptocurrency (called the Petro I believe).

I love the idea of cryptocurrencies and all of the problems they can solve, but the market for them right now seems too good to be true, so I'm betting that it is.

 

[SouthSideChiDomer]

Very well written.

I’ll toss an idea out. Now that BTC seems to be mainstream there are a lot of new investors who have zero understanding of the technology. More and more phishing sites/links are being setup and these noobs are ripe for the taking to have their BTC stolen. Also with some of these cloud wallets it’s a hackers paradise. Not to mention if the cloud wallet company goes under or pulls an exit scam, everyone can say bye bye to their BTC. Then crypto currencies get a bad name and the market crashes...All plausible I think.


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Yeah, there were already several hacks just in the last few days I believe. The actual blockchain technology might be very secure, but hackers will always find the weakest link in the process and exploit it. I do wonder what percentage of the bitcoins are owned by people who are smart enough to be well secured or cocky enough to believe that they are secure that they won't take their money out. That could stop any potential crash caused by the panic over hackers.

 

[Irish2015]

For those that have read Shiller's Irrational Exuberance, this seems to be a pretty clear case of a bubble in the sense that the news stories are what's driving the price. I've yet to see an argument, other than conjecture on what total market cap bitcoin could eventually realize relative to other currencies and gold, that rationalize such a high price.

It seems almost similar to how people buy penny stocks in hopes that someone will buy it at a higher price. This is all not to discredit bitcoin. Cryptocurrency could wind up being revolutionary, and I doubt a full burst of the bubble is coming. I think it's far more likely that another crypotcurrency ends up being the winner from all of this though.

 

[Irishman77]

.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

For those that have read Shiller's Irrational Exuberance, this seems to be a pretty clear case of a bubble in the sense that the news stories are what's driving the price. I've yet to see an argument, other than conjecture on what total market cap bitcoin could eventually realize relative to other currencies and gold, that rationalize such a high price.

It seems almost similar to how people buy penny stocks in hopes that someone will buy it at a higher price. This is all not to discredit bitcoin. Cryptocurrency could wind up being revolutionary, and I doubt a full burst of the bubble is coming. I think it's far more likely that another crypotcurrency ends up being the winner from all of this though.

I’d bet on ETH and XMR. I don’t have money to invest so I’m looking for loans from anyone interested on a high return.

What has not been mentioned yet on bitcoin is an old technology now. The reason BTC is king is because it was first to market, but most other alt coins are far superior technology and have many more uses then btc.


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[greyhammer90]

Yay. One my biggest regrets in life saying good morning as a top thread......sniff sniff......

You would've sold when your investment doubled or tripled the first time. Mightve lost some spending money, but there's no way you would've held this long.

 

[STLDomer]

Not investing in at least one block chain currency or company that does business related to them is as questionable as putting a ton in bitcoin IMO.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Not investing in at least one block chain currency or company that does business related to them is as questionable as putting a ton in bitcoin IMO.

Ok. So lend me some money so I can invest in some alt coins please.

For those of you who think cryptocurrency is a scam...well then Bank of America is getting scammed hard.

https://www.coindesk.com/bank-of-america-outlines-cryptocurrency-exchange-system-in-patent-award/

 

[BGIF]

Ok. So lend me some money so I can invest in some alt coins please.

For those of you who think cryptocurrency is a scam...well then Bank of America is getting scammed hard.

That's OK, they're TOO BIG to fail. And if they do we'll bail them out with your money and pay the bonuses for their executives.

 

[STLDomer]

Ok. So lend me some money so I can invest in some alt coins please.

For those of you who think cryptocurrency is a scam...well then Bank of America is getting scammed hard.

https://www.coindesk.com/bank-of-america-outlines-cryptocurrency-exchange-system-in-patent-award/

Skip a night at the bar and you’ll have enough for a share of SQ (s/o St. Louis’ own).

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Bitcoin

You would've sold when your investment doubled or tripled the first time. Mightve lost some spending money, but there's no way you would've held this long.

Bingo. Still fun to think (or get depressed about) though.


PS: My buddy that went balls deep in BC early and later bought a mining rig has collected-sold-traded TONS since it started out.

Basically the rug could be pulled out from under BC tomorrow and he would still be virtually liquid for us normal peoples standards.

 

[IrishLax]

I've been wondering about it correcting itself and I don't know how its going to happen. There are no underlying financials that can tell you its not worth as much as its selling for like with stock of a company. There also doesn't seem to be any downward pressure that can be applied through shorting when more people think its going to go down. Its like the only thing determining the price is psychological factors from those buying. I think its in a bubble and is going to come down, but I just can't predict how.

This might be something that we study for years to come with the rise of cryptocurrencies. I firmly believe that any time we don't see how something is going to fail, the bigger the failure will be when it happens.

It's basically like any collectible at this point. Art, baseball cards, etc.... it's worth whatever someone will pay for it.

That also means it's worth literally nothing the moment the market turns.

Didn't realize, but a whole slew of countries have already made all things Bitcoin illegal, including India.

The Fed is coming.

Yup.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

It's basically like any collectible at this point. Art, baseball cards, etc.... it's worth whatever someone will pay for it.

That also means it's worth literally nothing the moment the market turns.



Yup.

Not entirely true. There are many items that can be purchased with Bitcoins and other alt coins for that matter. Checkout this article:

https://www.coindesk.com/now-can-buy-mariah-carey-g-eazy-albums-monero/

I wouldn't be able to make a purchase with a baseball card like it was currency for an item or service. But I sure can with cryptocoins. Let's face it the whole darkweb runs off of bitcoin and other alt coins.

I don't think you can view it as collectible. I think you have to view it as a foreign currency.

Currency transactions are so fast with block chain and cryptocurrency. Say I wanted to sell my BTC right now, I could have straight cash money in my hand in 20 minutes. Now think about how long it takes to get money when selling a stock...48 to 72 hours till you have the cash in hand.

A coin is a coin is a coin. But the technology behind cryptocurrencies is what is revolutionizing finance.

 

[SouthSideChiDomer]

Not entirely true. There are many items that can be purchased with Bitcoins and other alt coins for that matter. Checkout this article:

https://www.coindesk.com/now-can-buy-mariah-carey-g-eazy-albums-monero/

I couldn't make a purchase with a baseball card like it was currency for an item. But I sure can with cryptocoins. Let's face it the whole darkweb runs off of bitcoin and other alt coins.

I don't think you can view it as collectible. I think you have to basically view it as a foreign currency.

Currency transactions are so fast with block chain and cryptocurrency. Say I wanted to sell my BTC right now, I could have straight cash money in my hand in 20 minutes. Now think about how long it takes to get money when selling a stock...48 to 72 hours till you have the cash in hand.

A coin is a coin is a coin. But the technology behind cryptocurrencies is what is revolutionizing finance.

Yeah, I love the tech behind cryptocurrencies and all the problems it can solve, but trading Bitcoin is still a weird gray area. I agree that its more liquid than certain collectibles and is closer to a currency, but I don't think its a perfect comparison. There are underlying reasons currency rates change, but cryptocurrencies lack those.

I haven't had time to look, but I'd be interested to see what an expert would say is the reason there has been this drastic rise in the price of Bitcoin. I saw a segment on the news and they were struggling just to explain what Bitcoin is, let alone why its rising or if its in a bubble.

 

[STLDomer]

It's basically like any collectible at this point. Art, baseball cards, etc.... it's worth whatever someone will pay for it.

That also means it's worth literally nothing the moment the market turns.



Yup.

A baseball card couldn’t revolutionize baseball.

One of these crypto-currencies could revolutionize monetary transactions.

Will it be Bitcoin? I don’t think so. But the comparison isn’t valid. Consider the technology and infrastructure not the coins themselves.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

A baseball card couldn’t revolutionize baseball.

One of these crypto-currencies could revolutionize monetary transactions.

Will it be Bitcoin? I don’t think so. But the comparison isn’t valid. Consider the technology and infrastructure not the coins themselves.

Agree. I love the technology behind crypto. But I struggle with all the energy being used to mine. I wish there is a way to be greener...


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[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Agree. I love the technology behind crypto. But I struggle with all the energy being used to mine. I wish there is a way to be greener...


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Where is the breakdown on average energy cost to mine a bitcoin or ethereum (nuggets? or do they go by coins as well?)

I'd love to compare that to energy costs in other markets as well as the cost of currency production in the other countries.

 

[RDU Irish]

It's basically like any collectible at this point. Art, baseball cards, etc.... it's worth whatever someone will pay for it.

That also means it's worth literally nothing the moment the market turns.



Yup.

What this guy said. Might be a good jump the shark indicator when football message boards are talking about how revolutionary it is.

 

[IrishLax]

A baseball card couldn’t revolutionize baseball.

One of these crypto-currencies could revolutionize monetary transactions.

Will it be Bitcoin? I don’t think so. But the comparison isn’t valid. Consider the technology and infrastructure not the coins themselves.

it's virtually impossible to have one that works which isn't either 1) backed by a government AND tied to a commodity... effectively making it no different than any other commodity backed currency OR 2) accepted by large number of governments/corporations as acceptable payment.

Venezuela is trying #1. Bitcoing is trying to do #2, but teetering on the edge of failure as many countries have already banned it and the US is waffling on whether they want to let people trade futures on it, regulate it, or whatever. Bitcoin is in the hands of politicians who stand to gain NOTHING by accepting it... so that's why I think it's apt to fail, and revert back to its original use for black market and peer-to-peer transactions.

 

[Legacy]

Bitcoin plunged more than $3,000 today and was down 20%, recovering to a 15% drop.

 

[GATTACA!]

This doesn't sound good.

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/7ih0hd/guess_who_controls_over_half_a_billion_tethers/

So if i'm understanding this right basically some big company, working under the name of a bunch of exchanges are artificially inflating the price of BTC by trading tethers back and forth with themselves? And when people try to cash USDs they're actually getting USDTs that are essentially monopoly money?

If someone has a better explanation i'd appreciate it.

 

[SouthSideChiDomer]

This doesn't sound good.

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/7ih0hd/guess_who_controls_over_half_a_billion_tethers/

So if i'm understanding this right basically some big company, working under the name of a bunch of exchanges are artificially inflating the price of BTC by trading tethers back and forth with themselves? And when people try to cash USDs they're actually getting USDTs that are essentially monopoly money?

If someone has a better explanation i'd appreciate it.

So some group is creating millions of Tethers (listed as USDT) that are supposedly backed by one US dollar per Tether. This group is using the exchange (which has a bad history with scams and hacks) to sell these for Bitcoin. The question is why anyone would sell their Bitcoin for Tether when its relatively new and unstable. The answer is that the exchange lists Tether as USD so people think they are trading it for US dollars but instead are getting Tethers. Not horrible if the Tethers truly are backed by US dollars, but seeing as someone is seemingly printing millions of them, its probably not. There is also a correlation between when these new Tethers were printed and the massive price increase on Bitcoin.

There were some stats I read that seem pretty damning of the whole thing. I don't remember them exactly, but something like 70% of all USDT are owned by one person or company and USDT makes up ~10% of the daily trade volume of Bitcoin lately.

 

[GATTACA!]

So some group is creating millions of Tethers (listed as USDT) that are supposedly backed by one US dollar per Tether. This group is using the exchange (which has a bad history with scams and hacks) to sell these for Bitcoin. The question is why anyone would sell their Bitcoin for Tether when its relatively new and unstable. The answer is that the exchange lists Tether as USD so people think they are trading it for US dollars but instead are getting Tethers. Not horrible if the Tethers truly are backed by US dollars, but seeing as someone is seemingly printing millions of them, its probably not. There is also a correlation between when these new Tethers were printed and the massive price increase on Bitcoin.

There were some stats I read that seem pretty damning of the whole thing. I don't remember them exactly, but something like 70% of all USDT are owned by one person or company and USDT makes up ~10% of the daily trade volume of Bitcoin lately.

Gotcha. Thanks for the explanation. Part of the reason for all the issues with these crypto currencies is the crazy knowledge barrier to get involved with them. This stuff is like Mandarin for 95% of the population.

So are the tethers accepted anywhere else in exchange for other crypto or a cash payout? Also how has no one noticed yet that they aren't getting USD back?

 

[Sherm Sticky]

it's virtually impossible to have one that works which isn't either 1) backed by a government AND tied to a commodity... effectively making it no different than any other commodity backed currency OR 2) accepted by large number of governments/corporations as acceptable payment.

Venezuela is trying #1. Bitcoing is trying to do #2, but teetering on the edge of failure as many countries have already banned it and the US is waffling on whether they want to let people trade futures on it, regulate it, or whatever. Bitcoin is in the hands of politicians who stand to gain NOTHING by accepting it... so that's why I think it's apt to fail, and revert back to its original use for black market and peer-to-peer transactions.

You are focusing only on BTC.

You are not looking at the big picture of crypto currency and blockchain.

Forget about BTC. It’s an old technology and price is currently being inflated and bubble will burst soon.

Focus on the technology behind monero, etheruem or Ripple. These are the technology is and will transform the financial world as we no it.

Forget about BTC. It’s first to market which history shows large financial gains fast and early, but then gets replaced better technology at cheaper price to produce. Prime example is TiVo. Cable dvr, satalite dvr internet streaming and TiVo is dead.


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