Autry Denson

[stlnd01]

Do you mean Abilene Christian? Or is Albany Christian a high school?

 

[ResLife Hero]

Do you mean Abilene Christian? Or is Albany Christian a high school?

ACU expects to announce new football coach soon

Abilene.

 

[NDMIA]

Irish Illustrated Podcast were asked to rank the recruiters and they gave categories of...

Elite
Chip Long
Mike Elston
Brian Polian

Good
Del Alexander
Jeff Quinn
Clark Lea
Terry Joseph
Todd Lyght

TBD/Not Great
Tom Rees
Autry Denson

While, I'm not surprised by the orders, they mentioned that Denson has quite simply struggled and can't have half of his position group getting into trouble (add Dexter Williams with potential suspension). Here's a look at his recruiting since he's arrived on campus.

.8926 3* Tony Jones Jr.
.8524 3* Deon McIntosh - Dismissed
.9079 4* CJ Holmes - Dismissed
.8721 3* Jahmir Smith
.8456 3* C'Bo Flemister

Now I am a firm believer that Autry Denson is a good developer of talent and teacher, but his work on the trail has been suspect at a position that is normally very good to ND. Add in what ND did running the ball this past season and the kind of OL class in 2019 and there are no excuses that ND shouldn't be getting top tier talent. Here's a look at some RB rooms at some big time schools around the country...

USC
3* SR Aca'Cedric Ware
4* RS SO Vavae Malepeai
4* SO Stephen Carr
4* FR Markese Stepp

Georgia
4* JR Elijah Holyfield
3* JR Brian Herrien
4* SO D'Andre Swift
5* FR Zamir White
5* FR James Cook

Ohio State
4* RS JR Mike Weber
4* JR Demario McCall
4* SO JK Dobbins
4* FR Brian Snead
4* FR Master Teague

Alabama
4* RS SR Ronnie Clark
5* SR Damien Harris
3* JR Josh Jacobs
5* SO Najee Harris
4* SO Brian Robinson Jr.
4* FR Jerome Ford

Clemson
4* RS SR Adam Choice
5* JR Tavien Feaster
4* SO Travis Etienne
4* FR Lyn-J Dixon

Long way to go to catch up to the talent in those RB rooms and hopefully Autry Denson is the guy to do it.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Hmm. I probably would've put Clark Lea in the top 3, though I agree he's not quite elite. Though he's dang close

 

[IrishLax]

Kind of sad/interesting considering we passed on Elijah Holyfield, Markese Stepp was given "no go" by ND... and a lot of those other guys listed had ND offers.

I didn't listen to podcast, so maybe I'm misinterpreting the point being made. But here's the part of the narrative that is sort of bogus... Autry Denson is not a "bad" recruiter, and he doesn't just recruit his position group. He absolutely killed it in Florida when he was first hired, and was lauded by many of the same "insiders" for his recruiting prowess.

Neither McIntosh or Jones were highly rated, but many of the high guys Alford landed totally sucked or didn't last at ND. Was passing on Elijah Holyfield in '16 dumb? Yeah, probably, but I also don't think for a second it was his call to do that. CJ Holmes was not chopped liver in '17. Not a ton of RB offers... he was the #19 composite RB and an early take, not a scramble. We predictably whiffed on the 5 types like we always will.

The only "bad" class was last year. That was unacceptable RB recruiting for how good our running game was. It starts with taking Stepp and then not letting him through admissions... is that's Denson's fault? A little, because it was known from the beginning that his academics weren't great. Again, very few offers were put out at the position... so it's not like there were big whiffs on guys we *should* get. Then fast forward to this year, and this "Denson is a bad recruiter" narrative is coming from the fact that we're apparently getting beat head-to-head for guys we really want.

But at the end of the day, you can't say "Denson is a bad recruiter" unless you intentionally ignore the overall results in Florida. It's lazy analysis by II. And a RB coach should always be evaluated on production... well, two out of three years he's gotten elite production out of players and can clearly coach the position.

And holding him responsible for "his guys" getting into trouble is truly one of the dumbest hot takes I've ever heard.

 

[snoopdog]

Why is Chip Long Elite??

 

[IrishLion]

Goddamn that list pisses me off, actually.

I know we all have high hopes for guys like Tony Jones Jr and Jahmir Smith as guys that were undervalued and can come to ND and outplay their rankings... but with the track-record of success with our OL over the past four years, both on the field and in the draft, there's no reason that we shouldn't be landing a sure-fire difference maker in each class at RB.

It doesn't all fall on Denson, like LAX said. But it's alarming that the staff, as a whole, can't convince a true blue-chip runner to come play behind all the studs that have been recruited for the OL.

 

[NDMIA]

Kind of sad/interesting considering we passed on Elijah Holyfield, Markese Stepp was given "no go" by ND... and a lot of those other guys listed had ND offers.

I didn't listen to podcast, so maybe I'm misinterpreting the point being made. But here's the part of the narrative that is sort of bogus... Autry Denson is not a "bad" recruiter, and he doesn't just recruit his position group. He absolutely killed it in Florida when he was first hired, and was lauded by many of the same "insiders" for his recruiting prowess.

Neither McIntosh or Jones were highly rated, but many of the high guys Alford landed totally sucked or didn't last at ND. Was passing on Elijah Holyfield in '16 dumb? Yeah, probably, but I also don't think for a second it was his call to do that. CJ Holmes was not chopped liver in '17. Not a ton of RB offers... he was the #19 composite RB and an early take, not a scramble. We predictably whiffed on the 5 types like we always will.

The only "bad" class was last year. That was unacceptable RB recruiting for how good our running game was. It starts with taking Stepp and then not letting him through admissions... is that's Denson's fault? A little, because it was known from the beginning that his academics weren't great. Again, very few offers were put out at the position... so it's not like there were big whiffs on guys we *should* get. Then fast forward to this year, and this "Denson is a bad recruiter" narrative is coming from the fact that we're apparently getting beat head-to-head for guys we really want.

But at the end of the day, you can't say "Denson is a bad recruiter" unless you intentionally ignore the overall results in Florida. It's lazy analysis by II. And a RB coach should always be evaluated on production... well, two out of three years he's gotten elite production out of players and can clearly coach the position.

And holding him responsible for "his guys" getting into trouble is truly one of the dumbest hot takes I've ever heard.

All great points there. I think without Denson, ND isn't getting Kevin Austin to come to South Bend. I think he is a good recruiter, but not an amazing one that we saw with Tony Alford. And while I agree with you that guys getting in trouble is not all his fault, I do think there is some fault that falls on his shoulders because he stands up on that podium year after year on signing day and mentions they are looking for a great specific fit for ND at RB and how he's looking for Notre Dame men, but then has several RB's getting in trouble while on campus. Bottom line, I don't think the getting in trouble narrative is way too important because Tony Alford had problems with ND RB's getting into trouble, but what is the problem is the lack of talent influx into the position.

 

[snoopdog]

Goddamn that list pisses me off, actually.

I know we all have high hopes for guys like Tony Jones Jr and Jahmir Smith as guys that were undervalued and can come to ND and outplay their rankings... but with the track-record of success with our OL over the past four years, both on the field and in the draft, there's no reason that we shouldn't be landing a sure-fire difference maker in each class at RB.

It doesn't all fall on Denson, like LAX said. But it's alarming that the staff, as a whole, can't convince a true blue-chip runner to come play behind all the studs that have been recruited for the OL.

So I ask once again...........why is Chip Long Elite?

 

[zelezo vlk]

Goddamn that list pisses me off, actually.

I know we all have high hopes for guys like Tony Jones Jr and Jahmir Smith as guys that were undervalued and can come to ND and outplay their rankings... but with the track-record of success with our OL over the past four years, both on the field and in the draft, there's no reason that we shouldn't be landing a sure-fire difference maker in each class at RB.

It doesn't all fall on Denson, like LAX said. But it's alarming that the staff, as a whole, can't convince a true blue-chip runner to come play behind all the studs that have been recruited for the OL.

They're all afraid of being placed on koon's infamously cursed bod squad

 

[Luckylucci]

Kind of sad/interesting considering we passed on Elijah Holyfield, Markese Stepp was given "no go" by ND... and a lot of those other guys listed had ND offers.

I didn't listen to podcast, so maybe I'm misinterpreting the point being made. But here's the part of the narrative that is sort of bogus... Autry Denson is not a "bad" recruiter, and he doesn't just recruit his position group. He absolutely killed it in Florida when he was first hired, and was lauded by many of the same "insiders" for his recruiting prowess.

Neither McIntosh or Jones were highly rated, but many of the high guys Alford landed totally sucked or didn't last at ND. Was passing on Elijah Holyfield in '16 dumb? Yeah, probably, but I also don't think for a second it was his call to do that. CJ Holmes was not chopped liver in '17. Not a ton of RB offers... he was the #19 composite RB and an early take, not a scramble. We predictably whiffed on the 5 types like we always will.

The only "bad" class was last year. That was unacceptable RB recruiting for how good our running game was. It starts with taking Stepp and then not letting him through admissions... is that's Denson's fault? A little, because it was known from the beginning that his academics weren't great. Again, very few offers were put out at the position... so it's not like there were big whiffs on guys we *should* get. Then fast forward to this year, and this "Denson is a bad recruiter" narrative is coming from the fact that we're apparently getting beat head-to-head for guys we really want.

But at the end of the day, you can't say "Denson is a bad recruiter" unless you intentionally ignore the overall results in Florida. It's lazy analysis by II. And a RB coach should always be evaluated on production... well, two out of three years he's gotten elite production out of players and can clearly coach the position.

And holding him responsible for "his guys" getting into trouble is truly one of the dumbest hot takes I've ever heard.

^All of this.

 

[ab2cmiller]

While, I'm not surprised by the orders, they mentioned that Denson has quite simply struggled and can't have half of his position group getting into trouble (add Dexter Williams with potential suspension). Here's a look at his recruiting since he's arrived on campus.

.8926 3* Tony Jones Jr.
.8524 3* Deon McIntosh - Dismissed
.9079 4* CJ Holmes - Dismissed
.8721 3* Jahmir Smith
.8456 3* C'Bo Flemister

The composite rating for TJ is correct, but he was a composite 4 star.

 

[NDMIA]

So I ask once again...........why is Chip Long Elite?

N'Keal Harry - Arizona State stud WR, kept Cole Kmet in the class after his recruiter left, Braden Lenzy, helped with Drew Pyne, George Takacs, helped with Lawrence Keys III, Kalen Ballage - Arizona State RB just got drafted, Tommy Tremble, and helped with Andrew Kristofic. That's not a bad resume. I'm just reporting what I heard the II Podcast giving him in terms of the Elite grade as a recruiter.

 

[IrishLax]

All great points there. I think without Denson, ND isn't getting Kevin Austin to come to South Bend. I think he is a good recruiter, but not an amazing one that we saw with Tony Alford. And while I agree with you that guys getting in trouble is not all his fault, I do think there is some fault that falls on his shoulders because he stands up on that podium year after year on signing day and mentions they are looking for a great specific fit for ND at RB and how he's looking for Notre Dame men, but then has several RB's getting in trouble while on campus. Bottom line, I don't think the getting in trouble narrative is way too important because Tony Alford had problems with ND RB's getting into trouble, but what is the problem is the lack of talent influx into the position.

Very fair, and I tend to agree with your logic. That's an especially a good point that if you're going to talk about "fit" and getting "high character" guys then when those people get caught with hookers or shoplifting that's at least partially on you for recruiting them in the first place. So maybe that wasn't a super hot take by II.

 

[stlnd01]

And holding him responsible for "his guys" getting into trouble is truly one of the dumbest hot takes I've ever heard.

Why is that?
I certainly wouldn’t put it all on Denson. There’s a lot of factors, chiefly the actions of the players themselves.
But you don’t think a position coach has any responsibility for the culture of his position group and keeping his players eligible to play? Even if all you hold a coach responsible for is production, we’ve potentially lost three out of four returning running backs to disciplinary issues. That will make it harder to produce, and has to fall at least somewhat on the position coach.

 

[koonja]

At the end of the day it's about results. But I've listened to probably a dozen Autry Denson interviews since he's been at ND, and cannot fathom how he could possibly be less than a "serviceable recruiter", unless he simply doesn't try. His personality shines through the room, and he's extremely positive and down to earth. On top of that he's extremely high on ND, and seems to love everything about it.

I don't know if that will ever show in the results, and again maybe his effort is poor or something, but I can't think of many people you'd enjoy talking to more if you were a recruit or a recruit's parents.

 

[snoopdog]

N'Keal Harry - Arizona State stud WR, kept Cole Kmet in the class after his recruiter left, Braden Lenzy, helped with Drew Pyne, George Takacs, helped with Lawrence Keys III, Kalen Ballage - Arizona State RB just got drafted, Tommy Tremble, and helped with Andrew Kristofic. That's not a bad resume. I'm just reporting what I heard the II Podcast giving him in terms of the Elite grade as a recruiter.

That might rank as good....possibly very good.....absolutely not Elite

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Why is that?
I certainly wouldn’t put it all on Denson. There’s a lot of factors, chiefly the actions of the players themselves.
But you don’t think a position coach has any responsibility for the culture of his position group and keeping his players eligible to play? Even if all you hold a coach responsible for is production, we’ve potentially lost three out of four returning running backs to disciplinary issues. That will make it harder to produce, and has to fall at least somewhat on the position coach.

Yes, fvck Denson. How can he let his players get suspended? How is it not his fault? Why didn't he administer a psychological battery on his recruits to better predict those who were likely to make a bad decision? He could've then followed them around between classes and at night to make sure no bad shit was going on.

ALL HIS FAULT!

 

[stlnd01]

Yes, fvck Denson. How can he let his players get suspended? How is it not his fault? Why didn't he administer a psychological battery on his recruits to better predict those who were likely to make a bad decision? He could've then followed them around between classes and at night to make sure no bad shit was going on.

ALL HIS FAULT!

You’re a really good reader.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

You’re a really good reader.

 

[IrishLax]

Why is that?
I certainly wouldn’t put it all on Denson. There’s a lot of factors, chiefly the actions of the players themselves.
But you don’t think a position coach has any responsibility for the culture of his position group and keeping his players eligible to play? Even if all you hold a coach responsible for is production, we’ve potentially lost three out of four returning running backs to disciplinary issues. That will make it harder to produce, and has to fall at least somewhat on the position coach.

“Culture of his position group”... is actually great, as it pertains to football. Most coaches in his shoes would not get the production out of the RBs he has while also keeping the “depth” pieces engaged and not transferring. It is borderline shocking that he has kept Dexter Williams on the roster and bought in.

He can’t be held accountable for players smoking weed, shop lifting, or getting a hooker at a bowl game. That’s their choices. The only thing you can hold him responsible for is recruiting these players in the first place.

 

[zelezo vlk]

“Culture of his position group”... is actually great, as it pertains to football. Most coaches in his shoes would not get the production out of the RBs he has while also keeping the “depth” pieces engaged and not transferring. It is borderline shocking that he has kept Dexter Williams on the roster and bought in.

He can’t be held accountable for players smoking weed, shop lifting, or getting a hooker at a bowl game. That’s their choices. The only thing you can hold him responsible for is recruiting these players in the first place.

Maaaan how did I forget this lmao

 

[ulukinatme]

Maaaan how did I forget this lmao

Maaaan how did I miss that?

Seriously, have we fallen so far that we once were dating porn stars, now we're paying for hookers?

 

[Old Man Mike]

It is my mainly uninformed opinion, that regardless of what "we" on IE know, and regardless of what the coaches claim about wanting to be a run-first offense, Notre Dame is "known" out there as a Kelly Passing Show which uses the run as a counterpoint to the pass. --- it doesn't matter if this is correct or not --- it doesn't matter if we have great OLines --- it only matters what the kids believe and/or are told by opposing recruiters.

A constant b!tchfest on IE essentially "proves" this: the every week griping about dazzling runners not playing because they won't/don't pass protect (Bryant/ DWilliams/ the young Folston et al.) You can be a great runner but if you cannot facilitate the passing offense you sit.

And: the real elite backs are going to be eaten up by Alabama, USC, Georgia, Clemson, LSU, OSU, FSU, MIA, OK, and maybe even things like UofM. These schools have certain intangibles (like playing for championships and unnecessary classroom attendance) that we don't have. I'm puzzled as to what Denson et al are supposed to do. Throw in the overburden of speed in the south, and the overburden of distance and snow at South Bend and I'm kind of happy we get the pretty-high-quality RBs that we do.

 

[IrishLax]

Maaaan how did I miss that?

Seriously, have we fallen so far that we once were dating porn stars, now we're paying for hookers?

Now that I'm thinking back on it, I thought we had already discussed it on here but maybe that was just in mod forum. Deon McIntosh had a lot of small transgressions and the last straw was at the bowl game (allegedly) getting caught with a hooker.

 

[dublinirish]

Now that I'm thinking back on it, I thought we had already discussed it on here but maybe that was just in mod forum. Deon McIntosh had a lot of small transgressions and the last straw was at the bowl game (allegedly) getting caught with a hooker.

is that mod forum where the truth about what Davonte did is stored also?

 

[zelezo vlk]

is that mod forum where the truth about what Davonte did is stored also?

It's the mod forum where all of Koon's aliases are listed

 

[ab2cmiller]

It's the mod forum where all of Koon's aliases are listed

Are the aliases where he post his extra crazy stuff?

 

[dublinirish]

y'all keep updated banners in there too right?

 

[IrishLax]

is that mod forum where the truth about what Davonte did is stored also?

I can neither confirm nor deny whether that info is contained in said forum.

But being completely serious for a second, there is a very legitimate reason why the stuff on Davonte isn't posted publicly here. I'll PM you.