All Things Zebras (Refs)

[DONTH8]

Please move if needed, just couldn't find a thread that seemed appropriate...

I was watching the Inside Notre Dame football video just now, and one of the fans asked BK if he prepares differently for different officials and BK said he does. He said something to the effect of, "Certain officiating crews from different conferences interpret the rulebook differently."

Why is it that the refs are hired by conference? Is there some rule regarding that? I know that even in baseball and I believe basketball this is the same procedure. Why is that though? Why doesn't the NCAA just nut up and take over all the officiating? Or at least the officiating in the Power 5?

I can understand that it's quite the task, but let's be honest, how many times have we felt that refs flat out are biased toward us because they want a team from their conference to win? It's an immature thought, I know. But I'd be lying if I said I don't have that thought at least during half the games every year.

Just wondering if anyone here has a good answer.

 

[wizards8507]

The NCAA isn't really a league in the same way that the NFL, NBA, MLB, etc. are. It's just a governing body made up of member institutions. Games are just a series of voluntary contests that schools agree to participate in with one another, and the teams join conferences to help facilitate those agreements. It's not like the NFL decreeing "there shall be an AFC East wherein three crap teams will compete to see who gets to lose to the Patriots in the least embarrassing fashion."

 

[Wingman Ray]

But the fact is, there should be better control over the refs. There should not be refs from B10 for example officiating games where both teams are not in the B10. In those cases, a neutral region ref team should be brought in.

ND if I remember right always allows the visiting team to bring their refs. What an idiot idea. So let the team trying to win bring in officials that can decide the game by calling penalties that cannot be refuted by the replay officials? Makes sense to me!

And then in the cases when the NCAA does refute a ref team and note that it was a blown call...well that means nothing because it doesnt change the end game result. Great, some ref team gets fussed out and maybe loses the ability to ref there (if that even happens) but the team that got screwed still gets the L. Go figure.

 

[DONTH8]

The NCAA isn't really a league in the same way that the NFL, NBA, MLB, etc. are. It's just a governing body made up of member institutions. Games are just a series of voluntary contests that schools agree to participate in with one another, and the teams join conferences to help facilitate those agreements. It's not like the NFL decreeing "there shall be an AFC East wherein three crap teams will compete to see who gets to lose to the Patriots in the least embarrassing fashion."

Sure, I get that. But then the conferences become the leagues in a sense if they are the ones hiring and paying these men/women's salaries. To me, that just doesn't seem right. If the NCAA is in charge of transfer rulings and investigations, I feel that it would be able to create a part where they can put people in charge of officiating with no problem or backlash from fans/teams.

 

[DONTH8]

But the fact is, there should be better control over the refs. There should not be refs from B10 for example officiating games where both teams are not in the B10. In those cases, a neutral region ref team should be brought in.

ND if I remember right always allows the visiting team to bring their refs. What an idiot idea. So let the team trying to win bring in officials that can decide the game by calling penalties that cannot be refuted by the replay officials? Makes sense to me!

And then in the cases when the NCAA does refute a ref team and note that it was a blown call...well that means nothing because it doesnt change the end game result. Great, some ref team gets fussed out and maybe loses the ability to ref there (if that even happens) but the team that got screwed still gets the L. Go figure.

I agree with this.

The part that I didn't bring up, but always makes me the most weary, is the booth reviews. Literally no one can hear what they are saying or see what they are looking at. When we complain so much about the poor targeting calls on us/against us, I cant help but think that has to do with the officials just wanting to penalize us/not hurt their conference's team.

Again, I know this may be immature thinking, but why not just remove the question altogether and take over all the officiating?

 

[GowerND11]

But the fact is, there should be better control over the refs. There should not be refs from B10 for example officiating games where both teams are not in the B10. In those cases, a neutral region ref team should be brought in.

ND if I remember right always allows the visiting team to bring their refs. What an idiot idea. So let the team trying to win bring in officials that can decide the game by calling penalties that cannot be refuted by the replay officials? Makes sense to me!

And then in the cases when the NCAA does refute a ref team and note that it was a blown call...well that means nothing because it doesnt change the end game result. Great, some ref team gets fussed out and maybe loses the ability to ref there (if that even happens) but the team that got screwed still gets the L. Go figure.

That happens for all OOC games. They were ACC refs this past weekend at MSU.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Worked with an SEC ref back in the day. He told me he hated Tenn so bad that whenever he officiated a game they were involved in he would always call holding on them when they were backed up inside their own 20 yard line.

 

[tko]

Worked with an SEC ref back in the day. He told me he hated Tenn so bad that whenever he officiated a game they were involved in he would always call holding on them when they were backed up inside their own 20 yard line.

Love this ^^

 

[Bluto]

The no calls/non review of clear targeting of ND players is becoming a bit of a disturbing trend.

 

[IrishLion]

Can't remember where I saw it (probably a Tweet), but apparently the back judge from MSU, where they missed that egregious targeting/spearing on Wimbush, is the same back judge from the Texas game last year that looked on without throwing a flag as Torii Hunter Jr was nearly murdered

The kicker: Dude is supposedly a BC grad.

 

[greyhammer90]

Worked with an SEC ref back in the day. He told me he hated Tenn so bad that whenever he officiated a game they were involved in he would always call holding on them when they were backed up inside their own 20 yard line.

That's pretty terrifying that its (1) that bad; (2) so intentional that its actually discussed by certain refs.

 

[connor_in]

Can't remember where I saw it (probably a Tweet), but apparently the back judge from MSU, where they missed that egregious targeting/spearing on Wimbush, is the same back judge from the Texas game last year that looked on without throwing a flag as Torii Hunter Jr was nearly murdered

The kicker: Dude is supposedly a BC grad.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">A note to interpret how you will: six ND-MSU on-field refs were also on-field refs for the Torii Hunter no-call in the '16 ND-Texas game. 🤔 <a href="https://t.co/LcrSnLs2HD">https://t.co/LcrSnLs2HD</a></p>— Mike Vorel (@mikevorel) <a href="https://twitter.com/mikevorel/status/912782532474736640">September 26, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[GowerND11]

I think a lot of that is why I'd never want to be a referee in pro sports or major college sports. I like to think I have enough will power and morals to not blatantly call against a team I dislike (or for a team I do), but sometimes you subconsciously do that anyway.

 

[Senoj13]

I have posted this in the past in different threads but could never find an answer. If referees are conference employees and conference employees share in the overall bowl money collected by the conference, doesn't this create a conflict of interest in OCC games? I would think it would make more sense to use referees from other conferences when this occurs.

 

[GowerND11]

I have posted this in the past in different threads but could never find an answer. If referees are conference employees and conference employees share in the overall bowl money collected by the conference, doesn't this create a conflict of interest in OCC games? I would think it would make more sense to use referees from other conferences when this occurs.

I wouldn't be surprised if they are technically classified as independent contractors.

I believe here in PA, high school referees in the PIAA are paid tax free since they are classified as such.

 

[Dizzyphil]

Worked with an SEC ref back in the day. He told me he hated Tenn so bad that whenever he officiated a game they were involved in he would always call holding on them when they were backed up inside their own 20 yard line.

I think a lot of that is why I'd never want to be a referee in pro sports or major college sports. I like to think I have enough will power and morals to not blatantly call against a team I dislike (or for a team I do), but sometimes you subconsciously do that anyway.

Some here know I refereed HS and Div III College Football along with Soccer in both as well. Although different divisions in football, I would tend to believe that the following is done in all divisions.

Before the game, we would have a meeting. In the meeting, the Head/Lead referee was 'In Charge' of all of us (in 7 years, I was only Lead 20ish times and all were HS). We listened while he told us what to watch for in each team on O, D and special teams. If anyone was to be watched 'closely' and if someone had been known as a 'bad apple' and then of course, what coaches to be conscious due to their 'demeanor'.

Now, we worked with the same crew most ALL the time because it was area-based unlike conference-based in D1. But, there was animosity towards some teams due to either the coaches more than say a certain 'name' like Notre Dame, Alabama, FSU, etc....

But, I can see where the D1 refs could be biased or have an animosity towards a team because of who they are based on whatever reason.

Believe it or not, it was more prevalent in HS than DivIII !!!

 

[Irish#1]

Worked with an SEC ref back in the day. He told me he hated Tenn so bad that whenever he officiated a game they were involved in he would always call holding on them when they were backed up inside their own 20 yard line.

Why do I not find that surprising?

 

[ACamp1900]

I am good friends/colleagues with a long time local ref... he's pretty open about how most refs have a school or coach they absolutely hate.

 

[koonja]

Worked with an SEC ref back in the day. He told me he hated Tenn so bad that whenever he officiated a game they were involved in he would always call holding on them when they were backed up inside their own 20 yard line.

That's actually really funny because of how specific he was, unless you're a TN fan.

 

[NDohio]

Worked with an SEC ref back in the day. He told me he hated Tenn so bad that whenever he officiated a game they were involved in he would always call holding on them when they were backed up inside their own 20 yard line.

Yeah right. Next thing you will be telling us is that shoe companies pay college athletes...

 

[phgreek]

But the fact is, there should be better control over the refs. There should not be refs from B10 for example officiating games where both teams are not in the B10. In those cases, a neutral region ref team should be brought in.

ND if I remember right always allows the visiting team to bring their refs. What an idiot idea. So let the team trying to win bring in officials that can decide the game by calling penalties that cannot be refuted by the replay officials? Makes sense to me!

And then in the cases when the NCAA does refute a ref team and note that it was a blown call...well that means nothing because it doesnt change the end game result. Great, some ref team gets fussed out and maybe loses the ability to ref there (if that even happens) but the team that got screwed still gets the L. Go figure.

I hate this as well...why wouldn't you split the duties between crews from the mountain west and AAC, etc. Some of the WORST field and booth officiating in history is PAC12. It is almost certain something awful will happen if you simply watch a game or two with PAC12 officials. The ACC, while I only watch when ND is on the field...not all that impressed. The one thing I think is OBVIOUS is the awful application of targeting...they all suck at it, and ND seems to not be getting the protective benefit from it.

After the Michigan State deal, if I'm Kelly I'm doing some sort of "Longest Yard" play to that punk player...don't target his head, but cut him and have every linemen pile on his ass, and then not get off for a bit. Ever been at the bottom of a dog pile? ND players are going to start taking matters into their own hands...when that happens knees go, or someone gets a devastating head shot...at least this way the guy doesn't leave on a stretcher, or concussed....and the message is sent and received by all parties.

 

[Circa]

Wisconsin just got a break from shady officiating. UW guy pushes defender (WesternKentucky) into punt returner and out arrives the flag giving Wisconsin the ball inside their own 40 yard line. Wisconsin Is only ahead by 10-0 at the moment. Figure that out and call me Irish.

 

[calvegas04]

MSU with some home cooking tonight against utah st

 

[connor_in]

MSU with some home cooking tonight against utah st

Uh...no

 

[loomis41973]

MSU with some home cooking tonight against utah st

No where close. Stanford on the other hand......

 

[calvegas04]

Uh...no

yup some big phantom calls

 

[connor_in]

yup some big phantom calls

MSU had 2 calls reversed against them on replays that showed nothing. Even the official that the announcers throw to when there is a replay was shocked. Later a USU TD was given without a replay when the TV replay shows he didn't make it. MSU was also called for offensive penalties on two different drives when they had it something and goal inside the 5 yard line.

 

[Circa]

Hey guys. let's start trying to keep track of TERRIBLE officiating. I thought about making a thread but this one seems perfect.

Boston College could have just cut their deficit to 4 and 'they' didn't blow the whistle after the ball carrier was held up at the 3-4 yard line for about 2 seconds. Fumble issues and NC State ball with 6 minutes remaining.
4-0 NC State getting help.

 

[Bishop2b5]

I know that officiating can sometimes be bad or at least questionable, but a lot of what fans think is biased or bad is just them not understanding the rules, seeing what they want to see, or officials doing their best and simply missing something or just getting it wrong. There's still some bias and bad officiating, but not nearly as much as most fans think.

 

[Circa]

I know that officiating can sometimes be bad or at least questionable, but a lot of what fans think is biased or bad is just them not understanding the rules, seeing what they want to see, or officials doing their best and simply missing something or just getting it wrong. There's still some bias and bad officiating, but not nearly as much as most fans think.

From a fan of the most deliberate calls never in question.

If you wanna say we did get hosed in the first 15 minutes of the 2013 championship game I'll forgive ya.