All Things Star Wars Thread (Spoilers)

[gkIrish]

Nope. I'm well aware of the difference between "fantastical" and "internally inconsistent." It's just that I cannot take the people who act genuinely offended over a failure to be internally consistent in a Star Wars film in 2019 seriously. Star Wars has never been internally consistent or particularly grounded in its own rules, and fanboys trying to act offended over it is hilarious. It's always made things up as convenient for the story.

Imagine for one second if people took the same level of nitpicky vitriolic toxicity to the Original Trilogy as they did for the most recent movie. Heck, lets just take the Empire Strikes Back (the one most everyone thinks is the best one):


It's one thing to say "hey that doesn't make sense." That's a pretty normal critique and is common in nearly every Star Wars release. It's another thing to say "OMG this thing retroactively ruined my childhood and ruined the series forever" because you've read too many Wookiepedia articles and have forgotten that this series makes things up to justify its story constantly.

First of all most of the examples in the little spiel you pulled from some website are plain dumb. They confuse plot or character development with internal inconsistency.

Second, I'm not "genuinely offended" at TLJ. I just think it's a stupid, awful movie. It introduces two characters I could not hate more and places them in roles that make no sense. It's own actors thought it was bad.

Third, you are assuming that Star Wars fans think the original trilogy is perfect. It's not. But there are perfect/near perfect moments (i.e. blowing up the Death Star) that made the original trilogy special. The fact that TLJ took those moments and cheapened them is where the tragedy lies.

Imagine if they made a sequel to Saving Private Ryan where Matt Damon was actually a Nazi spy. Maybe the movie itself makes every bit of sense and is a great movie in many ways (i.e. visually, acting, etc.). Even if all that was true wouldn't it still be an incredibly stupid movie because the whole time we'd be sitting there wondering about Saving Private Ryan the whole time?

 

[IrishLion]

 

[IrishLion]

This thread allows spoilers for RELEASED content...

Not spoilers for UNRELEASED content, whether they end up being true or not.

 

[gkIrish]

FWIW, Return of the Jedi is my favorite movie in the series, followed closely by Empire Strikes Back. I acknowledge that Empire has the most iconic scene with the Vader/Luke reveal, and that is certainly the best moment, but I just enjoy Return of the Jedi more (Ewoks aside).

Supposedly the Ewoks were supposed to be Wookiees (And would have made more sense in taking down the Empire's army), but for budget purposes or some shit they got changed. Hey, a bunch of little people got jobs as a result, and it catapulted Warwick Davis' career so some good came of it. In any case, I enjoy the epic space battle from RotJ, it blows the original Death Star battle out of the water. The speeder bike chase on Endor was epic. The confrontation with Luke and the Emperor and Vader was memorable. Even the Tatooine sequence was cool, and it gave us Carrie Fisher in the slave outfit which was icing on the cake. Again, I acknowledge that Empire is the better film, but Jedi is still my favorite. Even the ending was cool, with the force ghosts showing up one last time...screw Lucas for messing with that original scene.

So yeah...just remember that without RotJ we never get Warwick Davis, who Lucas later created Willow for...and that led to Val Kilmer's greatest role as Madmartigan.

The way you feel about ROTJ is how I feel about ANH. I recognize that Empire is the better movie but I will always love ANH the most.

 

[ACamp1900]

The Last Jedi is literally AIDS. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

We're never afraid to take on the big issues:

 

[greyhammer90]

First of all most of the examples in the little spiel you pulled from some website are plain dumb. They confuse plot or character development with internal inconsistency.

Second, I'm not "genuinely offended" at TLJ. I just think it's a stupid, awful movie. It introduces two characters I could not hate more and places them in roles that make no sense. It's own actors thought it was bad.

Third, you are assuming that Star Wars fans think the original trilogy is perfect. It's not. But there are perfect/near perfect moments (i.e. blowing up the Death Star) that made the original trilogy special. The fact that TLJ took those moments and cheapened them is where the tragedy lies.

Imagine if they made a sequel to Saving Private Ryan where Matt Damon was actually a Nazi spy. Maybe the movie itself makes every bit of sense and is a great movie in many ways (i.e. visually, acting, etc.). Even if all that was true wouldn't it still be an incredibly stupid movie because the whole time we'd be sitting there wondering about Saving Private Ryan the whole time?

Um, that little spiel was hard work.

As to your other points, you're conflating my argument because you assume that you're in the group I'm critiquing. You're the one who criticized my posts about the commonly discussed "flaws" within tLJ by saying that I was making false equivalencies, so I explained why I think the general outrage is ironic. I didn't presume to say anything about your views in particular or that those are incorrect or overblown. I don't know enough about your views to say if they're overblown or not.

 

[ACamp1900]

This thread allows spoilers for RELEASED content...

Not spoilers for UNRELEASED content, whether they end up being true or not.

But what if we just want to save someone from the cancer and AIDS???

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

The Last Jedi is literally AIDS. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

This

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

I think you could make a real compelling movie by chopping up TPM and AOTC and turning it into a single film. THEN, apply the machete viewing order, where prequels are treated like a flashback between ep 5 and 6. Pretend TLJ never happened, and bam, you got a pretty rock solid SW binge:

R1
4
5
1 & 2 mashup
3
6
7
Then go see 9... just not on opening weekend, to punish them for TLJ.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Rewatching The Last Jedi with my roommate now. I forgot how all over the place this movie was, and I'm not even to the casino planet yet.

Sent from my SM-J337U using Tapatalk

 

[gkIrish]

Initial reactions are coming in and seems very positive. Viewers saying they packed in 3 movies worth of plot into the one movie so hopefully that means it will be good?

 

[zelezo vlk]

Initial reactions are coming in and seems very positive. Viewers saying they packed in 3 movies worth of plot into the one movie so hopefully that means it will be good?

That's normally a bad thing. But I totally see why Abrams et al. went that route, as nothing much has happened in the trilogy other than the Resistance being completely shattered and a couple deaths.

 

[ulukinatme]

Initial reactions are coming in and seems very positive. Viewers saying they packed in 3 movies worth of plot into the one movie so hopefully that means it will be good?

I haven't heard very positive, I've heard mostly mixed but certainly more to the positive side. The consensus has been it's "a lot." 3 movies worth of plot is about right, people are saying it's a lot to digest. I also saw the word "fanservice" thrown around a lot, but in a good way.

The most pleasant take away I read was someone tweeted something along the lines of, "Rise of Skywalker feels like a sequel to Force Awakens and a slap to the face to Rian Johnson's Last Jedi." If so, I would feel a lot better about this finale and I may decide to go to the theater after all. Either way I'm not going opening night, I'm going to wait till I see some more reviews and opinions. Disney is going to have to earn my dollar on this one, no more blind loyalty.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I’ve seen <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/StarWarsTheRiseofSkywalker?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#StarWarsTheRiseofSkywalker</a>. It’s... a lot. There’s a lot I like and some I loved but overall my feelings are pretty mixed. It felt like an apology for The Last Jedi in some ways and a sequel to The Force Awakens in many, which I found frustrating. <a href="https://t.co/6m8sOQWhTx">pic.twitter.com/6m8sOQWhTx</a></p>— Terri Schwartz (@Terri_Schwartz) <a href="https://twitter.com/Terri_Schwartz/status/1206827519929798656?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 17, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I love a lot of The Last Jedi, and while I know it’s not a perfect movie, I think it’s greater than the sum of its parts. I am still processing TROS, but I find myself feeling the opposite, and like many feel with TLJ, a couple things I didn’t like sour the movie for me.</p>— Terri Schwartz (@Terri_Schwartz) <a href="https://twitter.com/Terri_Schwartz/status/1206828938728636417?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 17, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">RISE OF SKYWALKER could only have been ruder to Rian Johnson if they had motion-smoothed it</p>— Kyle Buchanan (@kylebuchanan) <a href="https://twitter.com/kylebuchanan/status/1206821039235194880?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 17, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[tussin]

The most pleasant take away I read was someone tweeted something along the lines of, "Rise of Skywalker feels like a sequel to Force Awakens and a slap to the face to Rian Johnson's Last Jedi." If so, I would feel a lot better about this finale and I may decide to go to the theater after all. Either way I'm not going opening night, I'm going to wait till I see some more reviews and opinions. Disney is going to have to earn my dollar on this one, no more blind loyalty.

Let's be real -- we are all going to end up seeing it in theaters.

 

[ACamp1900]

I'll beat the horse until it's dust... they should have just done the Thrawn trilogy... and then done these new characters completely separate from the originals if they had to. The Thrawn saga had better characters than what we have now anyway Mara Jade>>>>> Rey, Thrawn >>> Ben and Talon Karrde>>>>> Poe and so on, all while not shitting all over the original story.

 

[ulukinatme]

Let's be real -- we are all going to end up seeing it in theaters.

I've already said I'm leaning towards boycotting it and either catching a pirated stream or I'll borrow someone's DVD later. It's not like we have to wait long these days, it'll get released in Spring probably. If reviews come out and it leans more toward Force Awakens after all, I'll probably change my mind. If I hear they're playing politics again and pushing misplaced narratives, I'm out.

Star Wars has always been inclusive, at least from a feminine point of view. Women have been powerful and leaders in the Star Wars universe. From the minute Leia's cell door is opened in New Hope she takes control of her own rescue. She's defiant to her captors while in captivity on the Death Star. As General she's blasting Storm Troopers alongside the men in RotJ, even saving Han's life. It goes beyond her though, there's plenty of strong women in the SW universe: Mon Mothma, Padme, Sabe, Zam Wesell, Luminara, Aayla, Shmi, the list goes on. Women aren't sitting around waiting to be rescued, Padme is the one leading her team in retaking her capital of Naboo and she makes her own escape while captured during the Battle of Geonosis. The women were always on equal footing from the men in this universe, there was no need to "tear down the patriarchy" in Last Jedi. The message was out of place and it both ruined the movie and tainted this trilogy. I'll not argue that women aren't on equal footing with men in the grand scheme of things today, but there was no reason for them to bring contemporary politics into a galaxy far, far away.

 

[ACamp1900]

Let's be real -- we are all going to end up seeing it in theaters.

nope.

 

[ulukinatme]

I'll beat the horse until it's dust... they should have just done the Thrawn trilogy... and then done these new characters completely separate from the originals if they had to. The Thrawn saga had better characters than what we have now anyway Mara Jade>>>>> Rey, Thrawn >>> Ben and Talon Karrde>>>>> Poe and so on, all while not shitting all over the original story.

 

[tussin]

I just reread some of this thread and, as someone who hates TLJ, I have to say that Lax's performance is... *chef kiss*.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

I'm seeing it tomorrow night. Super pumped. Hope to be thoroughly entertained.

 

[GATTACA!]

I think you could make a real compelling movie by chopping up TPM and AOTC and turning it into a single film. THEN, apply the machete viewing order, where prequels are treated like a flashback between ep 5 and 6. Pretend TLJ never happened, and bam, you got a pretty rock solid SW binge:

R1
4
5
1 & 2 mashup
3
6
7
Then go see 9... just not on opening weekend, to punish them for TLJ.

Lunacy.

 

[wizards8507]

I'll beat the horse until it's dust... they should have just done the Thrawn trilogy... and then done these new characters completely separate from the originals if they had to. The Thrawn saga had better characters than what we have now anyway Mara Jade>>>>> Rey, Thrawn >>> Ben and Talon Karrde>>>>> Poe and so on, all while not shitting all over the original story.

KOTOR better.

 

[greyhammer90]

KOTOR better.

KOTOR is a great story.

For a game.


The Thrawn Trilogy followed by the Jedi Academy Trilogy would've been the best timeline. Too bad everyone was too old by the time the sequels began.

EDIT: Seeing the Suncrusher, the REAL Suncrusher on the big screen would've been absolutely great. They could've even let Adam Driver play Gantoris.

 

[wizards8507]

KOTOR is a great story.

For a game.


The Thrawn Trilogy followed by the Jedi Academy Trilogy would've been the best timeline. Too bad everyone was too old by the time the sequels began.

EDIT: Seeing the Suncrusher, the REAL Suncrusher on the big screen would've been absolutely great. They could've even let Adam Driver play Gantoris.

The KOTOR movie wouldn't be the plot of the game, it would be the story of Revan and the Mandalorian Wars that preceded the game.

 

[greyhammer90]

The KOTOR movie wouldn't be the plot of the game, it would be the story of Revan and the Mandalorian Wars that preceded the game.

Yeah that would be lit too. Sigh, so much wasted potential in the "Legends" stuff.

 

[ACamp1900]

Mara Jade Poll;

Anna Kendrick
Emily Blunt
Karen Gillan
Scarlett Johansson
Salma Hayek (because she's such a great actress)
Other??

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Gimme an Imperial Knights movie.

 

[ACamp1900]

I say create an Ewoks movie where they are all force users and can destroy Imperial cruisers like flies with their minds. Endor is actually where the Rebellion super base was housed all along. Also, have Chewbacca be their supreme overlord who now speaks Huttese because, here's the shocker, he's revealed to also be Jaba the Hutt's grandfather.

 

[ulukinatme]

Mara Jade Poll;

Anna Kendrick
Emily Blunt
Karen Gillan
Scarlett Johansson
Salma Hayek (because she's such a great actress)
Other??

Some of those aren't natural red heads, not that they need to be, but why not Christina Hendricks?

 

[ACamp1900]

I don't know if she could pull it off or not but I really like Anna Kendrick's..... er,... acting... I think she has great skills for a white girl.