wizards8507
Well-known member
- Messages
- 20,660
- Reaction score
- 2,661
Guardians of the Galaxy.
My issue isn't "the Rogue One characters aren't developed well." My issue is "the Rogue One characters aren't developed AT ALL."
All Things Star Wars Thread (Spoilers)
- Thread starter gkIrish
- Start date
My issue isn't "the Rogue One characters aren't developed well." My issue is "the Rogue One characters aren't developed AT ALL."
gkIrish
Greek God
- Messages
- 13,184
- Reaction score
- 1,004
Why does it matter that much to you? The movie told a story about how we got to A New Hope. That's it. None of the characters survived. So why do you need their deaths to be something more?
If Guardians of the Galaxy had no character development then we wouldn't get a sequel because we wouldn't care enough to go see one. But *news flash* we already have a sequel to this movie and all the characters you are complaining about are dead so who cares?
If you were entertained and the plot was good, the movie was good overall.
gkIrish
Greek God
- Messages
- 13,184
- Reaction score
- 1,004
Has anyone rewatched ANH after watching Rogue One? I did and it really enhanced that experience for me.
For example, the opening scene in ANH was great before and now it's 10x better because you have that background of dozens of dudes being slaughtered by Darth Vader in order to get the plans to Leia.
As a general rule, if a prequel enhances the movie it precedes, it was a good movie IMO.
For example, the opening scene in ANH was great before and now it's 10x better because you have that background of dozens of dudes being slaughtered by Darth Vader in order to get the plans to Leia.
As a general rule, if a prequel enhances the movie it precedes, it was a good movie IMO.
- Messages
- 19,128
- Reaction score
- 11,077
I don't know if the development was totally lacking.
Jyn has a standard, if underwhelming path of development, but it's there. It's fine for what Rogue One is accomplishing.
Cassian has no development. I agreed with the Youtube lady on that. He's just a hardcore dude doing what needs to be done for the Rebellion, even if that means killing some fools, and he just happens to make a decision counter to his instincts at the end, because he kind of thinks Jyn is cool. Making one decision that is different from every other decision isn't necessarily development.
Chirrut had a decent development, depending on how you understand/interpret his relationship to the Force. He was hanging out on Jedha because that's where believers go to hang out. So he's expressing this belief in the Force, almost to a fanatical and desperate degree, even though he's NOT a Force-user. He uses his belief and experience to effectively fight at one point, but it's not actually the Force that allows him to best the Stormtroopers... it's his other senses allowing him to overcome his blindness. But then, in the end, we see his belief in the Force come to true fruition, as he allows the Force to protect him as he repeats his mantra, over-and-over. I thought it was effective in showing his beliefs finally coming to life, after watching his friend question those beliefs previously.
Chirrut's friend was simply a tool used to garner more emotion for Chirrut. The blind dude has a protector that loves him so much, he's willing to look past Chirrut's flawed beliefs while trying to convince the blind man that his own skills are the ones keeping him alive, not the Force... but then he sees Chirrut's death, and now he carries on Chirrut's beliefs (for another two minutes). Just adds impact to Chirrut's short character arc.
The pilot probably had the greatest development of all. While still underwhelming, it was the best example besides Chirrut and Jyn. He starts the movie as a seemingly-scumbaggy defector, who might be up to no good, or might legitimately be a defector who wants to change. He mentions Galen Erso, and realizes what the chance he has been given means, and ultimately makes the most of that chance in directing the attackers away from the others, which in turn kind of leads to his own demise. We even see his internal struggle put on screen several times, as you can see him contemplating the action and what he needs to do.
There was "little" development, but it was still there. And like GK said, it's 2 hours of action with 30 minutes of actual character service thrown in.
And unlike Guardians of the Galaxy, this isn't an origin story. So even though Guardians was able to establish an emotional connection to its characters, it did so because a central point of the plot was exploring their own flaws. Rogue One simply couldn't do that to the same degree, because it wasn't an origin story. It had a more-strict outline to follow, because it was a pre-established story.
All of the background info that could be compared to the first 45 mins of Guardians would come from "Catalyst," probably.
Last edited:
GATTACA!
It's about to get gross
- Messages
- 15,108
- Reaction score
- 12,945
They did. His name is K2SO and there was a an audible gasp in the theater when he dies every time I've seen the film.
wizards8507
Well-known member
- Messages
- 20,660
- Reaction score
- 2,661
I read Catalyst. It makes you care about Krennic, who's underused, Galen, who's barely in the movie, and Lyra, who dies in the first five minutes.
greyhammer90
the drunk piano player
- Messages
- 16,833
- Reaction score
- 16,106
You are asking why character development is important to a story where the climax of the movie is the character's deaths? If I don't care about the characters then why am I watching the movie? This is ESPECIALLY true about a prequel where I know exactly what's going to happen because the end result has already been told to me.
If you felt zero emotion when the squad died then the movie has failed at its purpose. I felt nothing. I think that's a pretty common complaint from what I'm reading.
This makes no sense. You are either saying that the death of all characters in a movie removes any requirement of an emotional attachment OR that an emotional connection to a movie's characters should depend on the potential for a sequel. Neither of those is true. Almost every good movie defies this.
Also, this is not a direct response to you, but Lion and others seem to hold the opinion that character development would have been incredibly difficult to pull off because every character dies at the end. I disagree strongly. There are countless movies that have nearly all characters die in which I care a TON about the characters.
I wasn't entertained because without emotional investment in what's happening on screen action becomes booooooooooring. I had no emotional investment in any character because they all sucked as characters. I didn't know them, I didn't see them grow, I didn't care.
To put it into perspective (and because you guys seem to think I have a vendetta against new Star Wars films) I felt more emotion at seeing Rey pull the lightsaber past Kylo Ren at the end of Episode VII than I did seeing our entire cast die in Rouge One. "Oh the switch is across the field, I guess it's time for the Chinese guy to die.... Yep."
Plot was bad too IMO. Just to add fuel to the fire.
greyhammer90
the drunk piano player
- Messages
- 16,833
- Reaction score
- 16,106
TIL I am a 22 yr old girl with a BB8 pillow.
zelezo vlk
Well-known member
- Messages
- 18,012
- Reaction score
- 5,055
Somebody buy her a beer
wizards8507
Well-known member
- Messages
- 20,660
- Reaction score
- 2,661
I had to Google what "TIL" meant.
TIL I am a 72 year old man... with a BB-8 pillow.
It's a deadpan shtick. She did the same thing to Suicide Squad.
zelezo vlk
Well-known member
- Messages
- 18,012
- Reaction score
- 5,055
Are you not on reddit?
wizards8507
Well-known member
- Messages
- 20,660
- Reaction score
- 2,661
What's reddit?
greyhammer90
the drunk piano player
- Messages
- 16,833
- Reaction score
- 16,106
Wizard turning forty is going to be worse than the average person turning eighty. I've never met his wife but I hope she's prepared to have this conversation soon;
"What do you want to do today dear?"
"WHAT? ...THIS ALL USED TO BE PEACH ORCHARDS FAR AS THE EYE COULD SEE"
zelezo vlk
Well-known member
- Messages
- 18,012
- Reaction score
- 5,055
I was about to suggest it, but you might become too frustrated at redditors.
To answer the question, it's a site that allows members to create communities/forums based on whatever topic they would choose. I spend a lot of time on the Catholicism subreddit, but there are also ones for da Bears, college football, NFL, the Pats, beer, wine, etc. It's a nice tool that allows people to connect like forums, but aggregates those subreddits under 1 website.
wizards8507
Well-known member
- Messages
- 20,660
- Reaction score
- 2,661
I know what reddit is, you jabronis. I find its UI off-putting so I don't use it.
zelezo vlk
Well-known member
- Messages
- 18,012
- Reaction score
- 5,055
greyhammer90
the drunk piano player
- Messages
- 16,833
- Reaction score
- 16,106
If that's the case where do you find Private Opinions Rigorously Noted?
wizards8507
Well-known member
- Messages
- 20,660
- Reaction score
- 2,661
I follow your mom on snapchat.
gkIrish
Greek God
- Messages
- 13,184
- Reaction score
- 1,004
I felt an emotional connection to the Rebellion as a whole by the end of the movie to the point where Darth Vader cutting them down made me feel angry and I felt tremendous pride when the plans ultimately got in Leia's hands. To me, this movie is about A New Hope, not about each individual character that died in Rogue One. It's all about showing how important the plans were and how people sacrificed their lives to make it happen.
My point about the characters dying is that their role in the story is over and it doesn't really matter if we are interested in them specifically. They have no role in a sequel. Guardians of the Galaxy was an origin story where character development is a fundamental requirement in order to produce more sequels.
If you didn't feel an emotional connection at any level then we will never agree.
greyhammer90
the drunk piano player
- Messages
- 16,833
- Reaction score
- 16,106
Dad?
wizards8507
Well-known member
- Messages
- 20,660
- Reaction score
- 2,661
I'm just glad I got the verb "follow" right for snapchat. I don't really know how snapchat works, either.
- Messages
- 37,545
- Reaction score
- 28,995
What a basic bitch.
1. In what world does a character need to change their personality to have an arc? In Die Hard, Hans Gruber and John McLane are the same people throughout the entire movie and the movie is great. So her entire premise is flawed.
2. "The action is bad"... OK sooooo she's just an obvious troll. Should I keep watching? Fuck it, I'll keep watching.
3A. "The movie wasn't dark, no deaths were sad"... Jyn/Cassian death is intentionally NOT sad because the movie is a about hope. Asian dude's death was hella sad. "His death wasn't even epic"... ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING??!? That slow walk through laser fire was incredibly tense and emotional because -- unlike other Star Wars movies with protected characters -- you knew he could die. "But then the force stopped protecting him?" she says like it doesn't make perfect fucking sense that the Force would protect him to accomplish something vitally important to the balance of the universe but not just give him total invulnerability in the battle forever. Good lord she is so obvious in her torlling... or just really stupid... or a Communist, like greyhammer.
My wife cried 4 times watching the movie. I know less emotional people who cried over a fucking ROBOT'S death they did such a good job with him. But she says the robot was stupid too, because (insert bullshit about his dialogue that makes no sense). *eye roll* I guess she's just sooooo edgy and jaded.
3B. "Jyn's mom gets shot so she won't be used as a hostage"... no, she gets shot trying to kill Krennic... "even though her husband has already decided he's going to build it to put a weakness in it"... WHAT. THE. FUCK! That's not true! He says in the fucking hologram that he doesn't decide to do that until way later.
"Forest Whittaker stays behind for no reason".... umm, no he stays behind because he thinks he'll slow Jyn and everyone down, because he's a cripple...
"Erso is accidental collateral damage"... no, he is INTENTIONAL damage from a military strike that was in error and causes tension/dissension and shows that war is complicated; unlike a lot of black-and-white Star Wars cliche in the other movies. This is a war movie. Deal with it.
"Asian guy doesn't try to get back"... because he accepted his fate before even walking out and accomplished his goal which is bigger than self-survival. and he knows that there is literally no chance he makes it back, because the Force only protected him to accomplish this larger goal.
"Legs got tired and did not see explosive in time"... dude was wounded, in a pinned down position, and unless you believe in Hollywood bullshit where people casually walk away from concussive blasts you cannot outrun a grenade that is right next to you. Sorry to burst your bubble of sci fi cliches.
"Bomb accidentally kills Body"... no, the Imperials are aware of him & his compatriots ship and intentionally destroy it with an explosive.
So she's made that there any "noble sacrifice." THE ENTIRE MISSION WAS A GIANT NOBLE SACRIFICE BY EVERY VOLUNTEER! Jesus titty fucking christ. Not everything can be some giant "save yourself!" cliche sacrifice which is rarely done well (Hodor, Gandalf). Why is that some sort of pre-requisite for a good war film? It makes no sense. "No satisfying blaze of glory moment"... cool, got buy a ticket for Transformers then and enjoy your tropes.
I quit, can't watch the other 7. I've reached my fill of idiocy for the day. Top starred youtube comment says it perfectly: "you seemed disappointed that the movie wasn't 100% cliche." So true... her whining about how the the Asian dude didn't take out 50 storm troopers by himself on the way to the switch illustrates it best.
wizards8507
Well-known member
- Messages
- 20,660
- Reaction score
- 2,661
Lax, brother, it's satire.
- Messages
- 20,894
- Reaction score
- 8,126
- Messages
- 19,128
- Reaction score
- 11,077
LAX, I was gonna do what you just did, but I didn't want to write the longest post in IE history to counter every flaw in her video.
You got it right, though: she's edgy and hip, because she doesn't like the new Star Wars. Or is it that she doesn't like the new Star Wars, even as a super fan, BECAUSE she's edgy and hip?
Idk, the whole "I'm a weird hipster who must pretend to not be satisfied with anything" thing doesn't compute to me.
You got it right, though: she's edgy and hip, because she doesn't like the new Star Wars. Or is it that she doesn't like the new Star Wars, even as a super fan, BECAUSE she's edgy and hip?
Idk, the whole "I'm a weird hipster who must pretend to not be satisfied with anything" thing doesn't compute to me.
- Messages
- 37,545
- Reaction score
- 28,995
Nuh uh.
- Messages
- 37,545
- Reaction score
- 28,995
Yeah it's not satire, she's just a self-important hipster who will hopefully die alone someday from a virulent case of hemorrhoids. And then I will mock her death as "accidental."
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="und" dir="ltr">:-/ Hrrrrrrrrmmmmmmmmmmmmm <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/RogueOne?src=hash">#RogueOne</a></p>— Jenny Nicholson (@JennyENicholson) <a href="https://twitter.com/JennyENicholson/status/809689234630000641">December 16, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">OK WAIT C2-B5 WASN'T IN THAT ENTIRE MOVIE I'M SO MAD <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/RogueOne?src=hash">#RogueOne</a></p>— Jenny Nicholson (@JennyENicholson) <a href="https://twitter.com/JennyENicholson/status/809694489908428801">December 16, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I literally spit out drink from my novelty Jyn Erso soda cup at a major character death because the timing made it seem comedic</p>— Jenny Nicholson (@JennyENicholson) <a href="https://twitter.com/JennyENicholson/status/809818302251839488">December 16, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The failure of Rogue One to justify Vader's screentime actually makes Darth Maul a better villain which oh my god</p>— Jenny Nicholson (@JennyENicholson) <a href="https://twitter.com/JennyENicholson/status/809823162049269760">December 16, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
She actually hated the movie. And those are her actual opinions.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="und" dir="ltr">:-/ Hrrrrrrrrmmmmmmmmmmmmm <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/RogueOne?src=hash">#RogueOne</a></p>— Jenny Nicholson (@JennyENicholson) <a href="https://twitter.com/JennyENicholson/status/809689234630000641">December 16, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">OK WAIT C2-B5 WASN'T IN THAT ENTIRE MOVIE I'M SO MAD <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/RogueOne?src=hash">#RogueOne</a></p>— Jenny Nicholson (@JennyENicholson) <a href="https://twitter.com/JennyENicholson/status/809694489908428801">December 16, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I literally spit out drink from my novelty Jyn Erso soda cup at a major character death because the timing made it seem comedic</p>— Jenny Nicholson (@JennyENicholson) <a href="https://twitter.com/JennyENicholson/status/809818302251839488">December 16, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The failure of Rogue One to justify Vader's screentime actually makes Darth Maul a better villain which oh my god</p>— Jenny Nicholson (@JennyENicholson) <a href="https://twitter.com/JennyENicholson/status/809823162049269760">December 16, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
She actually hated the movie. And those are her actual opinions.
- Messages
- 19,128
- Reaction score
- 11,077
"Failure to justify Vader's screen time"????????
She's a fucking troll. Of course the most badass enforcer of the Empire is going to get involved when the plans for the Empire's ultimate weapon are compromised... AND THEY EXPLAINED THAT IN THE FUCKING MOVIE.
She's a fucking troll. Of course the most badass enforcer of the Empire is going to get involved when the plans for the Empire's ultimate weapon are compromised... AND THEY EXPLAINED THAT IN THE FUCKING MOVIE.
wizards8507
Well-known member
- Messages
- 20,660
- Reaction score
- 2,661
U triggered bro?