All Things SkunkBear

[calvegas04]

No need to play Michigan anymore

 

[IrishLax]

Irish Turning Point - Just Say No To Michigan

 

[Irish#1]

We'll never get into the playoff with that model, especially with other teams wising up and strengthening their OOC schedules. A conference champion has eight conference games, one conference championship, and one or two out of conference power five games. That means ten or eleven power five opponents and two or three non-power opponents. Since Notre Dame has one less game, that means we have room for one or two non-power opponents.

Disagree. Teams are upping their SOS, but only reluctantly and as little as possible. They will continue to schedule lesser opponents until they get bit by their schedule. I look for 1 out of conference power 5 game to be the norm.

 

[ACamp1900]

No team in the country can sustain long term recruiting and winning at the level needed to make the playoff playing nothing but P5 schools every week either imo...

 

[wizards8507]

No team in the country can sustain long term recruiting and winning at the level needed to make the playoff playing nothing but P5 schools every week either imo...

It needs to happen all at once. A team only needs to schedule cupcakes if everyone else is scheduling cupcakes. If everyone moves to power five scheduling, then the playing field stays level. It'll be harder to have a one loss or undefeated season, but it'll be harder for everyone. The "magic number" for a playoff team would move to two losses.

I'm telling you guys, in ten years it'll be 100% power five (or power four or power six or whatever it looks like in 2025). There won't be any more cupcakes for anyone. There's too much money in Alabama-Wisconsin compared to LSU-McNeese State.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

It needs to happen all at once. A team only needs to schedule cupcakes if everyone else is scheduling cupcakes. If everyone moves to power five scheduling, then the playing field stays level. It'll be harder to have a one loss or undefeated season, but it'll be harder for everyone. The "magic number" for a playoff team would move to two losses.

I'm telling you guys, in ten years it'll be 100% power five (or power four or power six or whatever it looks like in 2025). There won't be any more cupcakes for anyone. There's too much money in Alabama-Wisconsin compared to LSU-McNeese State.

Not wanting to play Michigan doesn't mean we couldn't schedule other P5 teams. I don't think many would disagree with you on your prediction. It just seems like a Florida team or Texas team or PSU would be better for recruiting.

And of course Michigan fans are running their mouths about the "future" since they know we'd curb stomp their a$$ if we played them this year or next.

 

[wizards8507]

Not wanting to play Michigan doesn't mean we couldn't schedule other P5 teams. I don't think many would disagree with you on your prediction. It just seems like a Florida team or Texas team or PSU would be better for recruiting.

I really think the geography of road games is the most overhyped nonsense in recruiting. If a kid really cares that much if Notre Dame is going to play near his mom's apartment in Miami, he's going to go play football for Miami. Plus, most people aren't saying we should schedule Texas A&M or Florida. They're saying we should schedule Tulane and UCONN. I don't care if a recruit grew up on Esplanade Avenue in New Orleans. Notre Dame - Michigan at 8:00 on NBC or ABC is going to be a bigger recruiting tool than Notre Dame - Tulane at Noon on ESPN3.

 

[ACamp1900]

I believe for recruiting it's more about getting coaches there so they can meet the recruits in person during the season on the recruits turf... that's why ND stresses going to Cali once a year anyway I know that.

... and I'm not calling for UCONN and Tulane, I'm calling for Florida Poly Tech and Texas State..

 

[Ndaccountant]

I really think the geography of road games is the most overhyped nonsense in recruiting. If a kid really cares that much if Notre Dame is going to play near his mom's apartment in Miami, he's going to go play football for Miami. Plus, most people aren't saying we should schedule Texas A&M or Florida. They're saying we should schedule Tulane and UCONN. I don't care if a recruit grew up on Esplanade Avenue in New Orleans. Notre Dame - Michigan at 8:00 on NBC or ABC is going to be a bigger recruiting tool than Notre Dame - Tulane at Noon on ESPN3.

Is it a deciding factor, probably not. Can it be a contributing factor, sure. I really think it depends on the kid and the location. In your example, Miami, probably not. But, what about a kid from North Carolina? The fact that we are going to play a few games a year within driving distance of home is a plus. Lots of kids want the chance to play close to home. The fact that we may offer a few games close to home can help overcome the home state U pull. Your point does stand tho for kids from areas where we may play once every few years. I think it just really depends on the location and kid.

 

[tussin]

Nothing would make me happier than ND/PSU every year.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I believe for recruiting it's more about getting coaches there so they can meet the recruits in person during the season on the recruits turf... that's why ND stresses going to Cali once a year anyway I know that.

... and I'm not calling for UCONN and Tulane, I'm calling for Florida Poly Tech and Texas State..

I also think it's about having a physical presence. We all know ND is a national brand, but the brand is stronger in certain locations. For example, the brand in Cali is strong, but there are local brands that are just as strong or stronger than ND. By playing in Cali each year, ND creates the opportunity to stay in the mind of local recruits. Without those games, it's tough to maintain the brand for recruiting.

 

[ACamp1900]

Nothing would make me happier than ND/PSU every year.

I would love to play Pittsburg State also...

 

[NCND]

I cannot believe what I am seeing.. People actually DON'T want ND to play Michigan again? Why? Am I missing something? This is one of the best Rivalries in CFB. Great players, Coaches and History. I think it's foolish that some ND fans don't wanna play UM. Can someone on this board please explain to me why some don't to play UM again? Thanks

 

[ACamp1900]

I cannot believe what I am seeing.. People actually DON'T want ND to play Michigan again? Why? Am I missing something? This is one of the best Rivalries in CFB. Great players, Coaches and History. I think it's foolish that some ND fans don't wanna play UM. Can someone on this board please explain to me why some don't to play UM again? Thanks

cuz fvk michigan

for further reading Lax wrote the following...

Irish Turning Point - Just Say No To Michigan

 

[NCND]

This is like a Nebraska fan saying no to OU.. Are u kidding me?

 

[IrishLax]

I really think the geography of road games is the most overhyped nonsense in recruiting. If a kid really cares that much if Notre Dame is going to play near his mom's apartment in Miami, he's going to go play football for Miami. Plus, most people aren't saying we should schedule Texas A&M or Florida. They're saying we should schedule Tulane and UCONN. I don't care if a recruit grew up on Esplanade Avenue in New Orleans. Notre Dame - Michigan at 8:00 on NBC or ABC is going to be a bigger recruiting tool than Notre Dame - Tulane at Noon on ESPN3.

I tend to agree, but I also think it matters quite a bit from a different angle. A big allure to ND is that you're nationwide. West coast game every year, Shamrock series every year, east coast games every year... it's very different from a lot of schools.

The number one thing you can't do with ND is regionalize it. You can't play Michigan, MSU, Purdue, Indiana, Illinois, and Northwestern. But playing a couple of them is a good idea.

My main objection to playing Michigan is that I don't see value added from a static long term home-and-home, and I don't think they work as a short term home-and-home compared to the alternatives. I see all kinds of downside to playing them, whereas I only see upside to scheduling a team like A&M or Florida.

I agree that Tulane and UCONN doesn't do anything for us other than pad the schedule, which may be of value in some years and other years might not.

 

[wizards8507]

My main objection to playing Michigan is that I don't see value added from a static long term home-and-home, and I don't think they work as a short term home-and-home compared to the alternatives. I see all kinds of downside to playing them, whereas I only see upside to scheduling a team like A&M or Florida.

Do we know if that's what's being kicked around?

 

[IrishLax]

Do we know if that's what's being kicked around?

Nope, in fact I think it'd be a short-run renewal sometime right before or right after the Ohio State series if we did it.

 

[NCND]

I tend to agree, but I also think it matters quite a bit from a different angle. A big allure to ND is that you're nationwide. West coast game every year, Shamrock series every year, east coast games every year... it's very different from a lot of schools.

The number one thing you can't do with ND is regionalize it. You can't play Michigan, MSU, Purdue, Indiana, Illinois, and Northwestern. But playing a couple of them is a good idea.

My main objection to playing Michigan is that I don't see value added from a static long term home-and-home, and I don't think they work as a short term home-and-home compared to the alternatives. I see all kinds of downside to playing them, whereas I only see upside to scheduling a team like A&M or Florida.

I agree that Tulane and UCONN doesn't do anything for us other than pad the schedule, which may be of value in some years and other years might not.

What's the downside of playing them?

 

[wizards8507]

Nope, in fact I think it'd be a short-run renewal sometime right before or right after the Ohio State series if we did it.

I think that's the way to go. Pick and choose some Big 10 schools to have home-and-homes with, no more than two at a time (and usually one). Michigan doesn't have to be every year, but I think college football is missing out if they're not on the schedule at all.

 

[wizards8507]

What's the downside of playing them?

We could lose?

Also they were evil back in the day. But hating Michigan for some shit Fielding Yost did in 1910 is kind of like hating America because slavery.

 

[IrishLax]

What's the downside of playing them?

Losing to Michigan is much worse than losing to, say, Texas A&M. You play Texas A&M and lose it probably doesn't cost you anyone, and it might even still help you with recruiting some Texas or "SEC" prospects depending on the showing.

You lose to Michigan and it's going to really, really hurt you recruiting your two most important areas - Chicago and Indiana. I don't think the "reward" of beating them is worth the risk, because even if you beat them you still have to go head-to-head with OSU and MSU. Accordingly, a loss can set you at the back of the pack for Midwest talent, and a win doesn't really help you all that much.

 

[IrishLax]

We could lose?

Also they were evil back in the day. But hating Michigan for some shit Fielding Yost did in 1910 is kind of like hating America because slavery.

Yeah but all those guys since him are chain of disciples. Crisler was a disciple of Yost, and he was a gaping dick hole as well who kept up the same shit. Bo was douche nozzel, and he made painstaking effort once he got to Michigan to follow Crisler's lead, who was a disciple of Yost. Lloyd Carr and Gary Moeller were Bo's assistants, who was a disciple of Crisler, who was a disciple of Yost. All this shit is connected, and it's where all the "Michigan Man" crap came from. Hating Notre Dame is inherent to being a "Michigan Man" which is rooted in the bigotry of a dude whose behavior was inexcusable.

And then recently you had Brady Hoke, who coached under Carr ... and Hoke ran his fat mouth way too much. And Dave Brandon was a tool bag also.

And now you have Harbaugh, who played for Bo, but doesn't seem to have a lot of the "Michigan Man" bullsh*t that the others do. Harbaugh is instead just a crazy dude, which I respect.

You go visit a place like Oklahoma for a game and fans are downright cordial and the whole experience is pleasant. Hell, go visit our main rival USC and you're not going to catch all that much shit. Go visit the Big House? It's the most vile place on earth. You'll have bottles thrown at you, you'll be harassed, and one ND student while I was there got assaulted so bad by Michigan fans that he had to have reconstructive surgery on his face.

There's really no way to look at Michigan and have anything nice to say about the past or present.

 

[wizards8507]

Yeah but all those guys since him are chain of disciples. Crisler was a disciple of Yost, and he was a gaping dick hole as well who kept up the same shit. Bo was douche nozzel, and he made painstaking effort once he got to Michigan to follow Crisler's lead, who was a disciple of Yost. Lloyd Carr and Gary Moeller were Bo's assistants, who was a disciple of Crisler, who was a disciple of Yost. All this shit is connected, and it's where all the "Michigan Man" crap came from. Hating Notre Dame is inherent to being a "Michigan Man" which is rooted in the bigotry of a dude whose behavior was inexcusable.

And then recently you had Brady Hoke, who coached under Carr ... and Hoke ran his fat mouth way too much. And Dave Brandon was a tool bag also.

And now you have Harbaugh, who played for Bo, but doesn't seem to have a lot of the "Michigan Man" bullsh*t that the others do. Harbaugh is instead just a crazy dude, which I respect.

You go visit a place like Oklahoma for a game and fans are downright cordial and the whole experience is pleasant. Hell, go visit our main rival USC and you're not going to catch all that much shit. Go visit the Big House? It's the most vile place on earth. You'll have bottles thrown at you, you'll be harassed, and one ND student while I was there got assaulted so bad by Michigan fans that he had to have reconstructive surgery on his face.

There's really no way to look at Michigan and have anything nice to say about the past or present.

Oh I still hate Michigan, don't get me wrong. Just not in the leather-helmets kind of way.

I do love Harbaugh, against all my better judgment.

 

[ulukinatme]

Go visit the Big House? It's the most vile place on earth. You'll have bottles thrown at you, you'll be harassed, and one ND student while I was there got assaulted so bad by Michigan fans that he had to have reconstructive surgery on his face.

I'd believe it. While the fans were tamer in the last couple meetings in South Bend (Humility after some crappy seasons maybe? Probably not), I can remember scUM fans parading around campus like a bunch of ass-wipes in '98 (First Michigan game for me at home) till about 2010, picking fights with Irish fans in and out of the stadium and taunting before games and after if they won. Every fan base will have loud mouth braggarts come to campus and make an ass out of themselves, but Michigan excelled at it, even when they weren't good. I can't imagine going to Ann Arbor for a game, fuck that shit.

 

[Huntr]

McMurphyESPN (Brett McMurphy)

Junior OL Logan Tuley-Tillman dismissed from team by Jim Harbaugh for "conduct unacceptable for a Michigan student athlete"

2:53 PM Sep 10th via TweetDeck
https://twitter.com/McMurphyESPN/status/642048388805038080


Aaahahahaha. F those guys.

 

[ulukinatme]

McMurphyESPN (Brett McMurphy)

Junior OL Logan Tuley-Tillman dismissed from team by Jim Harbaugh for "conduct unacceptable for a Michigan student athlete"

2:53 PM Sep 10th via TweetDeck
https://twitter.com/McMurphyESPN/status/642048388805038080


Aaahahahaha. F those guys.

Must be truly something heinous, like a triple homicide, to get kicked off the team if Brendan Gibbons was allowed to keep playing.

 

[MNIrishman]

We could lose?

Also they were evil back in the day. But hating Michigan for some shit Fielding Yost did in 1910 is kind of like hating America because slavery.

That is Yost Arena. It's where they play hockey. You will not find a Forrest Arena in DC, or a George Wallace monument in New York.

Yost was a scumbag. He held black players out of games and was actively racist and bigoted his whole damn life. His only positive accomplishment was that he won some football. If high cotton production doesn't excuse slavery, his record doesn't excuse him.

When Michigan renames that arena and recognizes Yost as an effective coach with some very significant flaws, not a hero, I'll start respecting their fans. But their entire history is built around that man, every coach since Yost pointing to him as an example of what's right. And that's wrong.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

That is Yost Arena. It's where they play hockey. You will not find a Forrest Arena in DC, or a George Wallace monument in New York.

Yost was a scumbag. He held black players out of games and was actively racist and bigoted his whole damn life. His only positive accomplishment was that he won some football. If high cotton production doesn't excuse slavery, his record doesn't excuse him.

When Michigan renames that arena and recognizes Yost as an effective coach with some very significant flaws, not a hero, I'll start respecting their fans. But their entire history is built around that man, every coach since Yost pointing to him as an example of what's right. And that's wrong.

You will find a Rupp arena in Kentucky.

 

[pumpdog20]

Losing to Michigan is much worse than losing to, say, Texas A&M. You play Texas A&M and lose it probably doesn't cost you anyone, and it might even still help you with recruiting some Texas or "SEC" prospects depending on the showing.

You lose to Michigan and it's going to really, really hurt you recruiting your two most important areas - Chicago and Indiana. I don't think the "reward" of beating them is worth the risk, because even if you beat them you still have to go head-to-head with OSU and MSU. Accordingly, a loss can set you at the back of the pack for Midwest talent, and a win doesn't really help you all that much.

Not playing them is worse. Like you said, we have to recruit against OSU and MSU. Michigan doesn't go away from that equation. Throw in the fact that they can use the perception that we "chickened out" of the series, that's not a good look either. We don't gain jackshit for playing Purdue, but we do it. There is absolutely zero to gain and a lot to lose by playing Navy, but we do it. There's nothing to gain for a lot of the games we play.

This whole "nothing to gain" excuse is weak.