A Song of Ice and Fire (Spoilers! Only enter if you have read all books)

[IrishLion]

Almost nine years ago (!!!) Whiskey recommended the Malazan Book of the Fallen series to me in the above-quoted post. So, I read the first book, Gardens of the Moon, and I liked it, but it's dense and dark and it took a while to get through, so I decided to read some other stuff before continuing. A couple of years later, I picked up the second book, Deadhouse Gates, and I had the same reaction: it was good, it scratched the cool-fantasy-series itch, but it was so dense and dark that I figured I would take a break from the series before continuing.

At the start of the year, something made me pick up the third book, Memories of Ice, and so far it is *awesome.*

Whiskey said in a different post somewhere on this site that people who get through the third book typically end up finishing the series. I think I can see why. As the author packs more layers on to the mythology/history/anthropology of the world, he's finally got me hooked. I'm plowing through this one in a way that I never did with the first two. Thanks for the rec, Whiskey!

I also picked up the series on Whiskeyjack's recommendation back then. I had a false start on the first book, then revisited about a year later.

After that, I couldn't put the series down. It was one of the most challenging, but THE most rewarding series I've ever read. It almost ruined other fantasy for me. I tried reading three or four other series, and got through some smaller stuff that was entertaining, but nothing was quite scratching the fantasy itch in the same way in terms of scale and impact. So I just re-read the series twice, throwing in the side novels the third time.

I'm far enough away from it now that I'm starting to enjoy other fantasy stuff again without constantly battling comparisons and disappointments in my mind. Currently reading The Eye of the World before diving into the WoT Amazon series, and really enjoying it.

I'm excited to hear more of your thoughts on Malazan as you move forward.

 

[IrishLion]

Just as we all feared: GRRM is working at a snail's pace because his story will now be different than the HBO show:

A Winter Garden | Not a Blog

He always maintained that there would be differences, but reading between the lines of his post, I'd bet my life savings that he wasn't satisfied with how HBO handled his outline, and is now reworking things to go in a completely different direction for his own creative interests. I would even venture a guess that seeing his master plan on display might have changed his mind on a lot of the heavy-hitting plot points.

Bran might still end up on the Iron Throne, and there are certain things the books need to follow through on based on his bread crumbs (Jon Snow, Cleganebowl, Hodor, Ice Dragon), but his treatment of Dany as 'mad queen' could change, as an example, which would create a whole new conflict for Jon and Bran to deal with in the end that we would know nothing about as readers.

(And none of this even takes into account that he STILL probably can't actually finish the series in two more books, regardless. Way too many important threads being built in the book pages that the show didn't even touch on, and yet GRRM has to resolve them somehow, in addition to building towards or tearing down whatever the show delivered from his outline. No way he gets that done in two volumes at this point. We will get tWoW, and then he'll tell us the bad news that 'A Dream of Spring' is getting split the way 'Feast for Crows' and 'Dance with Dragons' were).

 

[GATTACA!]

Just as we all feared: GRRM is working at a snail's pace because his story will now be different than the HBO show:

A Winter Garden | Not a Blog

He always maintained that there would be differences, but reading between the lines of his post, I'd bet my life savings that he wasn't satisfied with how HBO handled his outline, and is now reworking things to go in a completely different direction for his own creative interests. I would even venture a guess that seeing his master plan on display might have changed his mind on a lot of the heavy-hitting plot points.

Bran might still end up on the Iron Throne, and there are certain things the books need to follow through on based on his bread crumbs (Jon Snow, Cleganebowl, Hodor, Ice Dragon), but his treatment of Dany as 'mad queen' could change, as an example, which would create a whole new conflict for Jon and Bran to deal with in the end that we would know nothing about as readers.

(And none of this even takes into account that he STILL probably can't actually finish the series in two more books, regardless. Way too many important threads being built in the book pages that the show didn't even touch on, and yet GRRM has to resolve them somehow, in addition to building towards or tearing down whatever the show delivered from his outline. No way he gets that done in two volumes at this point. We will get tWoW, and then he'll tell us the bad news that 'A Dream of Spring' is getting split the way 'Feast for Crows' and 'Dance with Dragons' were).

It’s funny. I found that notablog update to be super encouraging. I was resigned to fact that we’d never even get Winds. Him being nearly done with Tyrion and having an accurate idea of how many pages the finished manuscript is going to be to me indicates that he sees the end of the tunnel. It’s also the first time he’s mentioned editing in ages.

 

[IrishLax]

It’s funny. I found that notablog update to be super encouraging. I was resigned to fact that we’d never even get Winds. Him being nearly done with Tyrion and having an accurate idea of how many pages the finished manuscript is going to be to me indicates that he sees the end of the tunnel. It’s also the first time he’s mentioned editing in ages.

Agreed. Most encouraging update in ages.

 

[calvegas04]

He is never going to finish these books, time to move on fellas, GRRM has.

 

[IrishLion]

It’s funny. I found that notablog update to be super encouraging. I was resigned to fact that we’d never even get Winds. Him being nearly done with Tyrion and having an accurate idea of how many pages the finished manuscript is going to be to me indicates that he sees the end of the tunnel. It’s also the first time he’s mentioned editing in ages.

Your optimism encourages me, but I didn't see a mention of manuscript pages or that he was almost done with Tyrion, just that he was finishing and then re-writing certain sections, and that he *was* working on a Tyrion section at all would have been a spoiler if not for the show.

 

[GATTACA!]

Your optimism encourages me, but I didn't see a mention of manuscript pages or that he was almost done with Tyrion, just that he was finishing and then re-writing certain sections, and that he *was* working on a Tyrion section at all would have been a spoiler if not for the show.

He said Winds will be longer than Storm. Not by a few pages, more like 300. He said it’s possible his publishers will push him to release it in volumes the way the other asoiaf are released in Europe.

He said he was with Tyrion again and thought he had one more chapter to go.

It’s possible some of this is not from the notablog. There have been a few interviews the last week or so. Another encouraging development imo.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Just as we all feared: GRRM is working at a snail's pace because his story will now be different than the HBO show:

A Winter Garden | Not a Blog

He always maintained that there would be differences, but reading between the lines of his post, I'd bet my life savings that he wasn't satisfied with how HBO handled his outline, and is now reworking things to go in a completely different direction for his own creative interests. I would even venture a guess that seeing his master plan on display might have changed his mind on a lot of the heavy-hitting plot points.

Bran might still end up on the Iron Throne, and there are certain things the books need to follow through on based on his bread crumbs (Jon Snow, Cleganebowl, Hodor, Ice Dragon), but his treatment of Dany as 'mad queen' could change, as an example, which would create a whole new conflict for Jon and Bran to deal with in the end that we would know nothing about as readers.

(And none of this even takes into account that he STILL probably can't actually finish the series in two more books, regardless. Way too many important threads being built in the book pages that the show didn't even touch on, and yet GRRM has to resolve them somehow, in addition to building towards or tearing down whatever the show delivered from his outline. No way he gets that done in two volumes at this point. We will get tWoW, and then he'll tell us the bad news that 'A Dream of Spring' is getting split the way 'Feast for Crows' and 'Dance with Dragons' were).

Personally, it wouldn't bother me at all if he extends the series beyond two books. It's an artificial target.

If any significant effort or delay is due to editing them down to a certain length I would prefer they just give the long winded version to readers and move on to the next installment.

 

[GATTACA!]

Personally, it wouldn't bother me at all if he extends the series beyond two books. It's an artificial target.

If any significant effort or delay is due to editing them down to a certain length I would prefer they just give the long winded version to readers and move on to the next installment.

The issue with the length is the actual ability for the publisher to bind a book as large as Winds could be. I’d prefer they just split it.

 

[GATTACA!]

And now he just reiterated that F&B2 won’t be coming out until after Winds. I’m getting lightheaded From all this hopium.

 

[GATTACA!]

GRRM tested positive for COVID.

 

[DomerInHappyValley]

Jesus will walk the earth before GRRM finishes winds.

 

[IrishLion]

Anyone catch "House of the Dragon" on Sunday night?

It started slow, but then shit popped off for the last ~40 minutes, and I found it to be quite enjoyable.

Looking forward to the next episode to see if they can build momentum.

 

[notredomer23]

Anyone catch "House of the Dragon" on Sunday night?

It started slow, but then shit popped off for the last ~40 minutes, and I found it to be quite enjoyable.

Looking forward to the next episode to see if they can build momentum.

Felt like old thrones to me, like first 3-4 seasons GOT. Thought it was awesome. Matt Smith is gonna be a great villain. Ramsayesque

 

[NorthDakota]

Anyone catch "House of the Dragon" on Sunday night?

It started slow, but then shit popped off for the last ~40 minutes, and I found it to be quite enjoyable.

Looking forward to the next episode to see if they can build momentum.

I checked it out. I never read any books so I'm not completely broken by the GOT final season.

Liked it. Figured they'd need a few episodes to get it rolling.

 

[ACamp1900]

...I never read any books....

We know,....

 

[IrishLion]

Felt like old thrones to me, like first 3-4 seasons GOT. Thought it was awesome. Matt Smith is gonna be a great villain. Ramsayesque

That's because they have source material to use again

I checked it out. I never read any books so I'm not completely broken by the GOT final season.

Liked it. Figured they'd need a few episodes to get it rolling.

I read the books, but that doesn't mean anything now that GRRM refuses to finish the main series lol.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Dance of Dragons is mentioned a lot in the books/show. Fitting choice for a prequel. They're going to have to jump around in terms of timeline to tell the story entirely.

Plenty of opportunity for spoilers here.

 

[phillyirish]

Felt like old thrones to me, like first 3-4 seasons GOT. Thought it was awesome. Matt Smith is gonna be a great villain. Ramsayesque

Personality wise and mannerism I got this vibe. I was worried for a bit but at least they had him losing the joust duel at the end. I really can’t stand another one dimensional, jack of all trades villain. At least Daemon isn’t some bastarrd like Ramsay who should wield little influence.

I thought they said there was gonna be less sex and nudity. In this episode we got a graphic castration, a sex scene and a full on orgy. HBO, no body watches your shows anymore for the nudity, it’s not 1994 anymore. Everyone has a universal screen at the palm of there hand with unlimited porn on it to get their kick if need be. At this point it’s just a distraction and ruins the flow of the show IMO.

Overall I thought it was decent. Got better as it went on, but really they only fleshed out 4 characters: The king, his brother and daughter and the hand, lord Hightower. Half of them will be gone by mid season (the king’s death, and the daughter being replaced by her aged double).

 

[IrishLion]

Personality wise and mannerism I got this vibe. I was worried for a bit but at least they had him losing the joust duel at the end. I really can’t stand another one dimensional, jack of all trades villain. At least Daemon isn’t some bastarrd like Ramsay who should wield little influence.

I thought they said there was gonna be less sex and nudity. In this episode we got a graphic castration, a sex scene and a full on orgy. HBO, no body watches your shows anymore for the nudity, it’s not 1994 anymore. Everyone has a universal screen at the palm of there hand with unlimited porn on it to get their kick if need be. At this point it’s just a distraction and ruins the flow of the show IMO.

Overall I thought it was decent. Got better as it went on, but really they only fleshed out 4 characters: The king, his brother and daughter and the hand, lord Hightower. Half of them will be gone by mid season (the king’s death, and the daughter being replaced by her aged double).

I haven't read Fire and Blood, so I was worried the charismatic-but-lowly knight (Cole?) was going to take a knife to the back of the head AFTER he got Daemon to yield. Would've been a total Ramsay move.

The sex and nudity are kind of key to the world, especially King's Landing though, aren't they? Some of GRRM's most detailed descriptions in the books are about naked bodies and the goings-on at brothels lol. I wouldn't be surprised if he's got some stipulation for certain boob and bush quotas in the show.

I'm also wondering about the time jumps and characters changing... will they consistently go back-and-forth, or are the younger actors getting jettisoned pretty quickly?

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

My first thought months ago when I saw the trailer was if this is centered around Targaryans 100 years prior to GoT, there is going to be incest galore.

Otherwise fully expected the gore and gratuitous sex.

 

[NorthDakota]

Personality wise and mannerism I got this vibe. I was worried for a bit but at least they had him losing the joust duel at the end. I really can’t stand another one dimensional, jack of all trades villain. At least Daemon isn’t some bastarrd like Ramsay who should wield little influence.

I thought they said there was gonna be less sex and nudity. In this episode we got a graphic castration, a sex scene and a full on orgy. HBO, no body watches your shows anymore for the nudity, it’s not 1994 anymore. Everyone has a universal screen at the palm of there hand with unlimited porn on it to get their kick if need be. At this point it’s just a distraction and ruins the flow of the show IMO.

Overall I thought it was decent. Got better as it went on, but really they only fleshed out 4 characters: The king, his brother and daughter and the hand, lord Hightower. Half of them will be gone by mid season (the king’s death, and the daughter being replaced by her aged double).

I really wish the nudity and such would take a backseat. I'd like to be able to watch a good show with my sisters or my parents without having those awkward scenes that do nothing to advance the plot.

 

[NorthDakota]

We know,....

Law school ruined reading for fun. Can't walk into B&N without smelling napalm and hearing Fortunate Son.

 

[ACamp1900]

Law school ruined reading for fun. Can't walk into B&N without smelling napalm and hearing Fortunate Son.

HA! I was just talking text books and ruining the love of reading while in college before I saw this post...

 

[NDGOLDEN]

My first thought months ago when I saw the trailer was if this is centered around Targaryans 100 years prior to GoT, there is going to be incest galore.

Otherwise fully expected the gore and gratuitous sex.

Nothing wrong with a good old fashion incest

I was the same I thought it started slow then it got really good. The pregnancy scene was kinda disturbing but that was probably reality back in those days.

 

[NDGOLDEN]

And I literally just purchased the GOT books this morning and am excited to read them. It will probably take me a year per book but still I’m excited lol

 

[GATTACA!]

And I literally just purchased the GOT books this morning and am excited to read them. It will probably take me a year per book but still I’m excited lol

You will go through the first three faster than you think. They are pages turners.

 

[NDGOLDEN]

You will go through the first three faster than you think. They are pages turners.

Well if you are a reader then yes but I’m not a reader so it might take me while

 

[IrishLion]

 

[notredomer23]

I enjoyed the second episode and was actually happy with the lack of action after the first episode. Was enough drama and intrigue to keep things exciting. Third episode preview looks like it's gonna be full of action against the pirates.