'22 NJ QB Steven Angeli (Notre Dame Signee)

[bumpdaddy]

Exactly

You can’t survive on 5 yard passes or multiple sacks per drive. It just by coincidence was exactly what ND needed on a 2 min drill. The first sack didn’t bite them like it should have and the second sack really didn’t matter since we were in FG range. It would have severely hindered a TD drive though, in this hypothetical

RL wasn't surviving at that point in the game either. His getting sacked is what knocked him out of the game. The OL was really bad at that point. If you think the 2 Angeli sacks were on Angeli, you weren't watching closely enough. RL would have gotten crushed on those 2 plays too.

And yes, I know Angeli has a history of holding onto the ball too long but that wasn't the case against PSU. The OL wasn't holding up. And it wasn't smooth sailing/easy passing on the non-sack plays either. SA was playing like a veteran. He took control of that drive.

This breakdown of each of SA's plays shows what an amazing job he did when the stakes were highest and he was under duress. It wasn't as simple as "5 yard passes and multiple sacks."

 

[Dale]

RL wasn't surviving at that point in the game either. His getting sacked is what knocked him out of the game. The OL was really bad at that point. If you think the 2 Angeli sacks were on Angeli, you weren't watching closely enough. RL would have gotten crushed on those 2 plays too.

And yes, I know Angeli has a history of holding onto the ball too long but that wasn't the case against PSU. The OL wasn't holding up. And it wasn't smooth sailing/easy passing on the non-sack plays either. SA was playing like a veteran. He took control of that drive.

This breakdown of each of SA's plays shows what an amazing job he did when the stakes were highest and he was under duress. It wasn't as simple as "5 yard passes and multiple sacks."

Leonard basically never gets just crushed. I don’t know how, but he would not have gotten sacked, definitely not just crushed twice. That’s his best trait, by far

 

[GrangerIrish24]

Game was tied in the 4th. Much different scenario.

Did we have the lead when he took over though?

 

[bumpdaddy]

Leonard basically never gets just crushed. I don’t know how, but he would not have gotten sacked, definitely not just crushed twice. That’s his best trait, by far

You are projecting your bias. He got crushed. It's what knocked him out of the game. It wasn't his fault but he did get crushed.

And I'll bet you didn't go back and look at those 2 Angeli sacks again. Those weren't anywhere close to being SA's fault and it would have been a miracle if RL or any other QB had avoided those sacks if they had been in those situations.

 

[greyhammer90]

He would not have gotten sacked????? Are you serious? Just playing stupid??? He got knocked out of the game on a sack. This has to be a joke.

Everyone gets sacked sometimes. RL is exceptionally slippery. At this point his ability to turn a DL pressure into a one or two yard gain is well documented and statistically significant.

 

[NDRock]

You are projecting your bias. He got crushed. It's what knocked him out of the game. It wasn't his fault but he did get crushed.

And I'll bet you didn't go back and look at those 2 Angeli sacks again. Those weren't anywhere close to being SA's fault and it would have been a miracle if RL or any other QB had avoided those sacks if they had been in those situations.

I just don’t think this team is great for Angeli. He’s a pure pocket passer and we are sorely low on receiving targets. RL’s ability to run has been a major reason for the offense success. Give Steve some big time weapons and he’d be successful. IMO.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Did Leonard not lead ND back in the 4th quarter like 5 days ago?

Leonard has literally lead this team to a 13 game win streak and bowl wins in the sugar and orange bowls against back to back top 5 teams.

 

[NDohio]

You mean like the end of the first half against Penn State?

Umm, if we are down by 14 in the fourth quarter, we will need touchdowns. That drive didn't produce a touchdown.

I love what Steve did here, the field goal was huge for momentum, but I do not have more confidence in SA producing two TDs in a fourth quarter comeback.

 

[GrangerIrish24]

Hats off to steve for putting together that drive but lets be real here. In his one drive, he was sacked twice and had a fumble that we only recovered because Carter has one arm.

 

[Giddyup]

You’ve got to protect the shit out of Angeli is his drawback.

 

[IrishWayDomer]

Hats off to steve for putting together that drive but lets be real here. In his one drive, he was sacked twice and had a fumble that we only recovered because Carter has one arm.

I ran the math and assuming equal TOP, he was on pace for taking 60 sacks and giving up 30 fumbles if he played full game. Don't think we could beat OSU with that IMO.

 

[bumpdaddy]

Everyone gets sacked sometimes. RL is exceptionally slippery. At this point his ability to turn a DL pressure into a one or two yard gain is well documented and statistically significant.

That's true. But we aren't talking about what RL generally does. We're talking about the 2 plays where SA got sacked. The first one, Baker gets beat off the snap and SA has no time at all to see the pressure and avoid the sack. The second one was after a high snap that forced SA to catch the ball right where the DE was applying pressure. I don't think RL's slipperiness would have mattered in either of those situations. Maybe but I think it's highly unlikely.

Here's the point. I'm not trying to make the case that SA is somehow our best option at QB. I think RL is. But because SA showed he can run a 2-minute offense when the stakes are the highest, we have several people on this board trying to put things in "perspective" by falsely pointing to his 2 sacks as a reason not to get overly hyped about what he did when we needed him most. Those sacks not only weren't his fault, they were unavoidable by just about any QB including extremely mobile QBs like RL. And I acknowledge RL has had miracle escapes, but I don't think he would have escaped either of those 2.

 

[bumpdaddy]

I just don’t think this team is great for Angeli. He’s a pure pocket passer and we are sorely low on receiving targets. RL’s ability to run has been a major reason for the offense success. Give Steve some big time weapons and he’d be successful. IMO.

Who was trying to make a case for Angeli being the guy?

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

We have an average/below average OL at pass pro with all of the injuries and shuffling about. Unless you think you can three step drop all game and you think the run game can succeed when the QB is no longer the +1 that can freeze the edge defender.

I love Angeli in a spot role or in change of pace or injury fill-in. Sustaining an offense with so many other missing pieces is borderline impossible with his skillset.

Riley is valuable only because he is dual threat and can turn chickenshit into chicken salad with his legs and ad lib ability. Next year, a pass-first QB will be at a premium because we'll have a healthy OL that should be mauling people in the run game and we should have enough receiving targets for the QB to find someone.

 

[Dale]

You are projecting your bias. He got crushed. It's what knocked him out of the game. It wasn't his fault but he did get crushed.

And I'll bet you didn't go back and look at those 2 Angeli sacks again. Those weren't anywhere close to being SA's fault and it would have been a miracle if RL or any other QB had avoided those sacks if they had been in those situations.

I’m not really biased to one QB or the other for any reason besides Riley Leonard is our starting QB and I think he’s better? That’s not exactly a hot or biased take


You’re taking this as a slight at Steve Angeli and it’s not at all

 

[NDohio]

That's true. But we aren't talking about what RL generally does. We're talking about the 2 plays where SA got sacked. The first one, Baker gets beat off the snap and SA has no time at all to see the pressure and avoid the sack. The second one was after a high snap that forced SA to catch the ball right where the DE was applying pressure. I don't think RL's slipperiness would have mattered in either of those situations. Maybe but I think it's highly unlikely.

Here's the point. I'm not trying to make the case that SA is somehow our best option at QB. I think RL is. But because SA showed he can run a 2-minute offense when the stakes are the highest, we have several people on this board trying to put things in "perspective" by falsely pointing to his 2 sacks as a reason not to get overly hyped about what he did when we needed him most. Those sacks not only weren't his fault, they were unavoidable by just about any QB including extremely mobile QBs like RL. And I acknowledge RL has had miracle escapes, but I don't think he would have escaped either of those 2.

I think you are misevaluating what the discussion is about. Of course people are excited about what SA did on that drive. It was clutch. The genesis for this discussion, though was whether or not SA is better suited for a fourth quarter, 2 TD deficit, comeback against OSU than RL. Give me RL in that situation.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Hats off to steve for putting together that drive but lets be real here. In his one drive, he was sacked twice and had a fumble that we only recovered because Carter has one arm.

yep. He didnt step up or away from the rush and I'd say he never saw it coming either which let them sack ahim and cause the fumble. He clearly does things that the coaches arent high on.

 

[bumpdaddy]

I’m not really biased to one QB or the other for any reason besides Riley Leonard is our starting QB and I think he’s better?

Fine, but I think you are strawmanning. I agree RL is the better QB but that doesn't mean I have to detract from what Angeli did to make that case. I think that's what you were doing when you directly implied SA's sacks were something that would have only happened to him at QB, and you downplayed his non-sack plays as simple 5-yard passes. There was much more to what he did than that.

 

[IrishLax]

You’ve got to protect the shit out of Angeli is his drawback.

Give Joe Alt to Angeli on his left side and I legit think he could be an elite college QB. He seems crazy accurate in the limited reps he has gotten and has nice touch + ball placement. Adequate arm strength too.

Jagusah/Knapp - Schrauth - Craig/Coogan - Jagusah/Knapp - Wagner ... I like our chances with a pocket passer *as long as* our pass catchers are up to snuff.

 

[bumpdaddy]

I think you are misevaluating what the discussion is about. Of course people are excited about what SA did on that drive. It was clutch. The genesis for this discussion, though was whether or not SA is better suited for a fourth quarter, 2 TD deficit, comeback against OSU than RL. Give me RL in that situation.

No, I wasn't. I directly responded to what Dale said in response to that 2 TD deficit scenario. He decided to detract from SA's performance to make that case. I countered. I still like RL over SA.

 

[GrangerIrish24]

yep. He didnt step up or away from the rush and I'd say he never saw it coming either which let them sack ahim and cause the fumble. He clearly does things that the coaches arent high on.

It’s simple. Riley is a better option. He changes the offense. You have to actually scheme against him where Steve doesn’t pose that threat.

 

[Dale]

Fine, but I think you are strawmanning. I agree RL is the better QB but that doesn't mean I have to detract from what Angeli did to make that case. I think that's what you were doing when you directly implied SA's sacks were something that would have only happened to him at QB, and you downplayed his non-sack plays as simple 5-yard passes. There was much more to what he did than that.

I did not say only Steve Angeli would take those sacks. I said Riley Leonard wouldn’t.

Leonard has been Top 10 in pressure to sacks in each of his full seasons as a starter. He is statistically less likely to take a sack than not just Angeli, but 95% of QBs

Nobody is sewering Steve Angeli

 

[bumpdaddy]

I did not say only Steve Angeli would take those sacks. I said Riley Leonard wouldn’t.

Leonard has been Top 10 in pressure to sacks in each of his full seasons as a starter. He is statistically less likely to take a sack than not just Angeli, but 95% of QBs

I know how good RL is at avoiding sacks but he still gets sacked and got sacked against PSU. Talking about what RL generally does does nothing to further this discussion. You think he would have avoided those 2 sacks. I don't. Those 2 SA sacks were much less avoidable than the sack that knocked RL out of the game, so to confidently say RL wouldn't have been sacked on those 2 plays ignores what actually happened and what was happening to RL and SA up to that point in the game.

 

[Dale]

I know how good RL is at avoiding sacks but he still gets sacked and got sacked against PSU. Talking about what RL generally does does nothing to further this discussion. You think he would have avoided those 2 sacks. I don't. Those 2 SA sacks were much less avoidable than the sack that knocked RL out of the game, so to confidently say RL wouldn't have been sacked on those 2 plays ignores what actually happened and what was happening to RL and SA up to that point in the game.

Okay that’s fine. You can disagree, not a big deal lol

 

[ab2cmiller]

It’s simple. Riley is a better option. He changes the offense. You have to actually scheme against him where Steve doesn’t pose that threat.

Of course EVERYONE does agree with this statement as to normal game play. Again, the question is who would give us a better chance when we are down 14 in the 4th quarter. If there is not a ton of time left on the clock that requires us to throw 90% of the time, I don't believe the answer is clear cut.

I believe there are scenarios where Angeli could be the better option. Obviously how well we are protecting the QB would be a factor. How well has Leonard been throwing the ball up to that point is another factor. How many people is the D dropping into coverage.

I'm guessing that most of the time the answer is probably sticking with Leonard. But there would be scenarios where the answer could be Angeli.

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

In Steve’s defense, the more he plays the quicker he will become in getting the ball out.

I don’t think the national championship game is the time to find out, but if you start him earlier in the season, he’ll know every hot route assignment necessary to excel.

 

[SoIll]

I am back on the Angeli train for next year. My only concern is will the WRs be good enough

 

[Irish#1]

In Steve’s defense, the more he plays the quicker he will become in getting the ball out.

I don’t think the national championship game is the time to find out, but if you start him earlier in the season, he’ll know every hot route assignment necessary to excel.

Well given that you just cursed us, it looks like we might just find out!

Angeli has shown that he has it between the ears and that is still the most important trait a QB needs, over his arm and/or his legs.

I'm not sure who I would want in a 70-80 yard drive with 2:00 left.

RL has improved considerably in his accuracy since the bye week. Yet, when he throws the ball my first thought before the camera goes to the receiver is wondering how accurate the throw will be? Those early season first impressions have been hard to shake even though his accuracy is much improved.

 

[NDMD]

Give Joe Alt to Angeli on his left side and I legit think he could be an elite college QB. He seems crazy accurate in the limited reps he has gotten and has nice touch + ball placement. Adequate arm strength too.

Jagusah/Knapp - Schrauth - Craig/Coogan - Jagusah/Knapp - Wagner ... I like our chances with a pocket passer *as long as* our pass catchers are up to snuff.

Agree 100%

Steve's strength's are a quick release and he's extremely accurate. Not super dynamic in the pocket, which is why behind the line this year he would be a disaster.

Next year, with a strong running game and line, I think he would be excellent in RPO/play action

 

[rtrn2glory]

Give Joe Alt to Angeli on his left side and I legit think he could be an elite college QB. He seems crazy accurate in the limited reps he has gotten and has nice touch + ball placement. Adequate arm strength too.

Jagusah/Knapp - Schrauth - Craig/Coogan - Jagusah/Knapp - Wagner ... I like our chances with a pocket passer *as long as* our pass catchers are up to snuff.

I can't remember the exact play on that two minute drive but he had Greathouse opening up on a corner route in the red zone but got pressure and maybe sacked right before it looked like he was cutting loose