2022 Fall Camp Thread

AgentJ

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ulukinatme said:
That was my thought. Feels like Floyd was the last one to really live up to it. I hope they've remembered this tradition, I think Diggs could put forth the effort. Styles would have been another option.
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Yup. I'm higher on Estime than Diggs at the moment, but we need to start giving our dynamic players this number again. I like the idea of it being awarded at the end of fall camp on years that the number is available.
 
Domina Nostra

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InKellyWeTrust said:
If Angeli starts more than a game or two for injury over his entire career then Tommy failed at his job imo. Sounds harsh, I know.
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I think QB recruiting has still not recovers from losing Phil.

But this is just a meaningless take—QBs can’t be predicted that easily at all. Angeli certainly has the physical traits.

If Angeli starts and he isn’t very good, then we can say Tommy failed.
 
ulukinatme

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Domina Nostra said:
I think QB recruiting has still not recovers from losing Phil.

But this is just a meaningless take—QBs can’t be predicted that easily at all. Angeli certainly has the physical traits.

If Angeli starts and he isn’t very good, then we can say Tommy failed.
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This. Scouts can't predict what QBs will truly live up to potential, flop, or exceed their billing. A QB coach can only prepare a player as best he can, not every player responds. All three of our QBs last year were ready when their number was called. That was something that BK didn't have down when Tommy was a freshman and Crist went down in 2010.
 
InKellyWeTrust

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Domina Nostra said:
I think QB recruiting has still not recovers from losing Phil.

But this is just a meaningless take—QBs can’t be predicted that easily at all. Angeli certainly has the physical traits.

If Angeli starts and he isn’t very good, then we can say Tommy failed.
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So you think Angeli starting in 2023 or 2024 would be alright? And what does "he isnt very good" really mean? It seems the aspirations of the program start and end with playoff wins and a national championship. It's difficult to project Angeli as the guy to take us there.
 
DONTH8

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ulukinatme said:
This. Scouts can't predict what QBs will truly live up to potential, flop, or exceed their billing. A QB coach can only prepare a player as best he can, not every player responds. All three of our QBs last year were ready when their number was called. That was something that BK didn't have down when Tommy was a freshman and Crist went down in 2010.
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Didnt Kelly rip off 4 straight wins after the Tulsa game? And people praised him for having Rees ready to play as a freshman?
 
I

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arrowryan said:
I’m listening to the II podcast, they talk about Buchner as if he’s a turnover machine. I have no idea where that narrative came from.
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I don’t understand from the minimal viewing they have had during spring & fall how they have this in their heads. I don’t think you can take anything from last year, that should be a wash as he hadn’t barely played in 2 years.

Whilst if you go to his last season of football in HS he threw 5 picks to 50+ TDs.

They act as if he can’t complete a pass, if you look at his style of play, he wants to throw the ball to the open spot, leading the WR, it’s not like he is throwing the ball up for grabs into double coverage. Every so often he may drive the ball into a spot like his pass to Mayer in the Virginia game, but he has the arm to do it.

Let see how the OSU game goes, I think he will do well & hopefully we can get the win
 
zelezo vlk

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Was it just the OSU game that they were saying they only hope for 60% completion percentage?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Domina Nostra

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InKellyWeTrust said:
So you think Angeli starting in 2023 or 2024 would be alright? And what does "he isnt very good" really mean? It seems the aspirations of the program start and end with playoff wins and a national championship. It's difficult to project Angeli as the guy to take us there
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This is the kind of thing I would have thought about Ian Book, and I was so pumped for second year Kizer—but the team sucked.

- It would be OK if he is better than the other kids. Carr and Buchner could both fizzle out. 5-stars fizzle all the time. If he’s better than them, great.

- it would mean that he is good enough to help win every game on his good days, shows up in big games, and doesn’t hamstring the offense on bad days.

- UGA literally won just this year with a walk-on, despite recruiting highly-ranked QBs. He was the best one of the bunch. The point is that you don’t need a highly-ranked QB, you need a good QB. They are not that easy to spot and develop differently.
 
InKellyWeTrust

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Domina Nostra said:
This is the kind of thing I would have thought about Ian Book, and I was so pumped for second year Kizer—but the team sucked.

- It would be OK if he is better than the other kids. Carr and Buchner could both fizzle out. 5-stars fizzle all the time. If he’s better than them, great.

- it would mean that he is good enough to help win every game on his good days, shows up in big games, and doesn’t hamstring the offense on bad days.

- UGA literally won just this year with a walk-on, despite recruiting highly-ranked QBs. He was the best one of the bunch. The point is that you don’t need a highly-ranked QB, you need a good QB. They are not that easy to spot and develop differently.
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But Ian Book wasn't good enough. I understand it's difficult to find an elite QB but it's the only thing holding ND back for the last decade+. Rankings aren't definitive for a prospect's success but they are predictive. The best programs stack high ceiling QBs. We've had one (Buchner) over the last 5 recruiting cycles (2019-2023).

ND isn't UGA, lol. Dayne Crist could have led that team to a championship. They had 5 defensive players drafted in the first round and 15 players drafted overall. We were happy to see Kyle Hamilton go in the first round - they had 5 Kyle Hamiltons.
 
Irish#1

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Per Sampson, the defensive players that impressed the most in fall camp were Bracy and Mills. Grupe is looking like a long range threat at kicker.
 
Domina Nostra

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InKellyWeTrust said:
But Ian Book wasn't good enough. I understand it's difficult to find an elite QB but it's the only thing holding ND back for the last decade+. Rankings aren't definitive for a prospect's success but they are predictive. The best programs stack high ceiling QBs. We've had one (Buchner) over the last 5 recruiting cycles (2019-2023).

ND isn't UGA, lol. Dayne Crist could have led that team to a championship. They had 5 defensive players drafted in the first round and 15 players drafted overall. We were happy to see Kyle Hamilton go in the first round - they had 5 Kyle Hamiltons.
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You just can't know a QB's ceiling based on his rankings. Ian Book was a 3-star. Dayne Crist was a 5-star.

From Rivals:
- Mahomes had a 5.7 ranking and was the 12th best dual-threat QB
- Tannahill had a 5.5 ranking and was the 23rd best dual-threat QB
- Aaron Rogers was unranked
- Josh Allen had a 5.4 ranking and was unranked
- Justin Herbert had a 5.6 ranking and was unranked as a QB nationally
- Dak Prescot had a 5.6 ranking and was unranked as a QB

There is no way to know Angeli's ceiling at this point.
 
ulukinatme

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DONTH8 said:
Didnt Kelly rip off 4 straight wins after the Tulsa game? And people praised him for having Rees ready to play as a freshman?
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3 dominating wins, and a close one in Southern Cal against Joey Freshwater to break the losing streak against the Trojans.

Tommy was ready after Tulsa, but we didn't have a backup prepared when Crist went down in the Michigan game. That was the one where Nate Montana filled in for most of the game until Crist managed to somehow come back after taking a nasty shot. Shoulda won that one, but Denard Robinson comebacks and all that.
 
Riddickulous

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ulukinatme said:
3 dominating wins, and a close one in Southern Cal against Joey Freshwater to break the losing streak against the Trojans.

Tommy was ready after Tulsa, but we didn't have a backup prepared when Crist went down in the Michigan game. That was the one where Nate Montana filled in for most of the game until Crist managed to somehow come back after taking a nasty shot. Shoulda won that one, but Denard Robinson comebacks and all that.
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Still a bit miffed about that 2010 game. Kyle Rudolph's 95 yard TD should have been gone down as one of the great plays in ND history.
 
IrishLion

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ulukinatme said:
3 dominating wins, and a close one in Southern Cal against Joey Freshwater to break the losing streak against the Trojans.

Tommy was ready after Tulsa, but we didn't have a backup prepared when Crist went down in the Michigan game. That was the one where Nate Montana filled in for most of the game until Crist managed to somehow come back after taking a nasty shot. Shoulda won that one, but Denard Robinson comebacks and all that.
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Is this a safe place? Are we in the Trust Tree?




The 2010 USC game never gave me the same warm and fuzzies that it seemed to have given the rest of the fan base. Don't get me wrong, it was great to get one over on Lane Kiffin, and to end the long national nightmare that was the losing streak to USC. And it certainly felt like validation that BK was the correct hire, based on how he handled the trials and tribulation of his first year at ND.

But that dropped pass by USC at the end totally ruined that game for me. It felt like backing into a win, rather than just taking it. And that's crazy after how dominant The Robert Hughes Drive was... but it just bothered me that USC had a 'dropped pass' excuse built in.
 
ulukinatme

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IrishLion said:
Is this a safe place? Are we in the Trust Tree?




The 2010 USC game never gave me the same warm and fuzzies that it seemed to have given the rest of the fan base. Don't get me wrong, it was great to get one over on Lane Kiffin, and to end the long national nightmare that was the losing streak to USC. And it certainly felt like validation that BK was the correct hire, based on how he handled the trials and tribulation of his first year at ND.

But that dropped pass by USC at the end totally ruined that game for me. It felt like backing into a win, rather than just taking it. And that's crazy after how dominant The Robert Hughes Drive was... but it just bothered me that USC had a 'dropped pass' excuse built in.
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2010 was cathartic for some of us. Having lived through the 2002 loss all the way through 2009, 8 straight..we were begging for a win. I was there for the Bush Push, the embarrassment in 2007, the Herculian effort of Clausen and Tate in 2009 to come up short again. Many great seasons (And obviously some bad ones) were ruined by USC during that stretch, only to have Cheaty Petey tuck tail and run when the wheels started to come off. Almost my entire 20s was spent watching ND lose to USC. That's rough for a die-hard fan in his prime. It was such an up and down season, but they finished it the right way and for breaking the streak I became a Tommy fan from that point on. Dude should have gone undefeated against USC in his career, but he got knocked out of that 2011 game temporarily, Crist had the fumble returned for a TD when we were threatening to score again, and momentum was lost.
 
greyhammer90

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IrishLion said:
Is this a safe place? Are we in the Trust Tree?




The 2010 USC game never gave me the same warm and fuzzies that it seemed to have given the rest of the fan base. Don't get me wrong, it was great to get one over on Lane Kiffin, and to end the long national nightmare that was the losing streak to USC. And it certainly felt like validation that BK was the correct hire, based on how he handled the trials and tribulation of his first year at ND.

But that dropped pass by USC at the end totally ruined that game for me. It felt like backing into a win, rather than just taking it. And that's crazy after how dominant The Robert Hughes Drive was... but it just bothered me that USC had a 'dropped pass' excuse built in.
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If pre-2010 ND football taught me anything, it's that there's no such thing as "backing into a win." A win is a win. This is how we closed out the season the year prior:

Loss to Navy 23-21
Loss to Pittsburgh 27-22
Loss to UConn 33-30 (2OT) (Senior night wooooo)
Loss to Stanford 45-38 (Our final play on defense for the season was letting the other team score to try and get the ball back.)

I really don't think many of us properly appreciate how bleak things were for awhile.
 
InKellyWeTrust

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Domina Nostra said:
You just can't know a QB's ceiling based on his rankings. Ian Book was a 3-star. Dayne Crist was a 5-star.

From Rivals:
- Mahomes had a 5.7 ranking and was the 12th best dual-threat QB
- Tannahill had a 5.5 ranking and was the 23rd best dual-threat QB
- Aaron Rogers was unranked
- Josh Allen had a 5.4 ranking and was unranked
- Justin Herbert had a 5.6 ranking and was unranked as a QB nationally
- Dak Prescot had a 5.6 ranking and was unranked as a QB

There is no way to know Angeli's ceiling at this point.
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Great, so you've just found all the exceptions, the 0.1% of similarly rated QB prospects. I can, with a small degree of uncertainty, predict Angelis college football ceiling when compared to an average 5* QB prospect. It's lower, substantially.
 
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