2018 - State of the Recruiting Class thread

[IrishLax]

The biggest issue I see is inconsistent play from the 3 returning starters besides Mustipher. Mustipher is a pretty darn solid center.

Hainsey and Kraemer... no idea how they graded out this year, but I thought both had some shortcommings. I'm not sure either is really a tackle. Bars just isn't nearly as good as I thought he would be... him and Nelson used to be pretty comparable if you rewind 2+ years and I just don't understand how he hasn't continued to improve. I wonder if he puts it all together next year or not.

Honestly, the only positions that seem "scary" next year are the tackles. Is Eichenberg legit? Because I don't really understand the logic of what we did at RT this year if he is... no, it is not that hard to be cross-trained. Guys in the NFL flip sides of the line all the time. Yes, everything is different but it isn't rocket science to transition from one side of the line to the other... what's more rare is going straight from the bench to LT. Stanley moved from RT to LT, McGlinchey moved from RT to LT, etc. that's how almost all teams do it. And neither Hainsey or Kraemer showed the stuff to be an elite LT.

But an interior of Kraemer-Mustipher-Bars should be very good.

 

[snoopdog]

Then next year's O Line would most likely be better than this year's and 2019's starting OL is:

LT - Josh Lugg - Jr.
LG - Aaron Banks - Jr.
OC - Robert Hainsey - Jr. / Trevor Ruhland - GS
RG - Dillon Gibbons - Jr. / John Dirksen - So / Luke Jones - So.
RT - NPF - So. / Robert Hainsey JR.

See how that works? Eazy peezy.

If you are listing guys not committed OR committed to other programs, don't stop there....get some First team all American transfers from the SEC on your two deep.

Even easier peasier

 

[snoopdog]

FWIW, I think Jones's film is good. He moves really well. With as much pulling as we do with our guards, he seems like a good fit. I would bet this is what HH sees. But he's probably a scout team OL so who cares

No sirree....Long is going to adopt an all ....screen left ......offense to take advantage of Jones apparently one strength

 

[ab2cmiller]

If you are listing guys not committed OR committed to other programs, don't stop there....get some First team all American transfers from the SEC on your two deep.

Even easier peasier

You ask a stupid hypothetical question which has about a 1% chance of actually happening and then criticize the response which contains a player that we probably have at least a 50% chance of getting. Please join Koon and take a timeout.

 

[Old Man Mike]

No one knows how much our guys will polish up by next season, but I'm betting it's a lot --- and heck, we don't even know how they graded this year --- it seems "logical" to me, though, that those grades were darned good when we were running over people prior to Josh Adams losing his magic somehow --- AND I saw MANY times when we were blocking people's brains out in pass protection even during the last few games.

My opinion is that it was not the line, nor any one of the big six that caused this offense troubles. (I watched a lot of lineplay in rewind, and most of the time the breakdowns were caused by the opposing DC calling a blitz which we ran right in to, and the big boys blocked their guys but there were too many. Other times the TE missed his block; or the RB; or Wimbush did something unproductive when he had other options, or some sort of twist confused Bars and whoever the RT was, but if one watched those closely, man, those twists were wickedly timed --- sometimes the other guys just make a play.)

on a more speculative note ... Tommy's turns at RT were generally more productive as to our marching down field than Robert's, but it was close. Nevertheless, Harry chose to start Robert during the latter part of the season and give Tommy second shift. The only reasons that I could see for that were:
A). Tommy was warrioring out some dings; (maybe but unknown)
B). Tommy was out-of-shape; (I don't believe that for a second --- Tommy would run to the RB to pick him up )
C). Harry knew that Tommy was Q's replacement, and that Robert had the Dancer's feet of a tackle that the big mauler would never have. This speculation is the one I believe. Someone asked, maybe sarcastically, if Hainsey was our next great LT? I think that he might be exactly that, and Harry gave him as many reps as he could down the stretch. I believe that St. Harold is just waiting for one more season with Balis for Hainsey to become the Power Puncher that he needs to be to go along with those quick feet.

 

[snoopdog]

You ask a stupid hypothetical question which has about a 1% chance of actually happening and then criticize the response which contains a player that we probably have at least a 50% chance of getting. Please join Koon and take a timeout.

Yes it was a hypothetical question. All What if questions are, just by the very nature of what if...unlike developing a two deep when you don't even know the players on the roster....now that is suspect.

 

[snoopdog]

No one knows how much our guys will polish up by next season, but I'm betting it's a lot --- and heck, we don't even know how they graded this year --- it seems "logical" to me, though, that those grades were darned good when we were running over people prior to Josh Adams losing his magic somehow --- AND I saw MANY times when we were blocking people's brains out in pass protection even during the last few games.

My opinion is that it was not the line, nor any one of the big six that caused this offense troubles. (I watched a lot of lineplay in rewind, and most of the time the breakdowns were caused by the opposing DC calling a blitz which we ran right in to, and the big boys blocked their guys but there were too many. Other times the TE missed his block; or the RB; or Wimbush did something unproductive when he had other options, or some sort of twist confused Bars and whoever the RT was, but if one watched those closely, man, those twists were wickedly timed --- sometimes the other guys just make a play.)

on a more speculative note ... Tommy's turns at RT were generally more productive as to our marching down field than Robert's, but it was close. Nevertheless, Harry chose to start Robert during the latter part of the season and give Tommy second shift. The only reasons that I could see for that were:
A). Tommy was warrioring out some dings; (maybe but unknown)
B). Tommy was out-of-shape; (I don't believe that for a second --- Tommy would run to the RB to pick him up )
C). Harry knew that Tommy was Q's replacement, and that Robert had the Dancer's feet of a tackle that the big mauler would never have. This speculation is the one I believe. Someone asked, maybe sarcastically, if Hainsey was our next great LT? I think that he might be exactly that, and Harry gave him as many reps as he could down the stretch. I believe that St. Harold is just waiting for one more season with Balis for Hainsey to become the Power Puncher that he needs to be to go along with those quick feet.

absolutely agree 100% on C

 

[BobbyMac]

If you are listing guys not committed OR committed to other programs, don't stop there....get some First team all American transfers from the SEC on your two deep.

Even easier peasier

Luke Jones is a done deal. The only reason he hasn't already flipped is his season is still going on until tomorrow night and he'll OV for the banquet and commit.

I'll back out NPF. I don't need him to make it work. I'll fill this in as they acquire more OL's.

2019 OL Depth Chart

LT - Josh Lugg - Jr. / Robert Hainsey - Jr. / Cole Mabry - So. / Uncommitted OL '18 - So.
LG - Aaron Banks - Jr. / John Dirsken - So / Luke Jones - So. / Uncommitted OL '18 - So.
OC - Robert Hainsey - Jr. / Trevor Ruhland - GS / Uncommitted OL '18 - So.
RG - Dillon Gibbons - Jr. / John Dirksen - So. / Luke Jones - So. / Uncommitted OL '18 - So.
RT - Robert Hainsey JR. / Josh Lugg - Jr. / Cole Mabry - So. / Uncommitted OL '18 - So.

 

[irishog77]

Luke Jones is a done deal. The only reason he hasn't already flipped is his season is still going on until tomorrow night and he'll OV for the banquet and commit.

I'll back out NPF. I don't need him to make it work. I'll fill this in as they acquire more OL's.

2019 OL Depth Chart

LT - Josh Lugg - Jr. / Robert Hainsey - Jr. / Cole Mabry - So. / Uncommitted OL '18 - So.
LG - Aaron Banks - Jr. / John Dirsken - So / Luke Jones - So. / Uncommitted OL '18 - So.
OC - Robert Hainsey - Jr. / Trevor Ruhland - GS / Uncommitted OL '18 - So.
RG - Dillon Gibbons - Jr. / John Dirksen - So. / Luke Jones - So. / Uncommitted OL '18 - So.
RT - Robert Hainsey JR. / Josh Lugg - Jr. / Cole Mabry - So. / Uncommitted OL '18 - So.

Hainsey might need a few blows throughout the game if he's going to be the starter at 2 positions and a backup at a 3rd. That's some hillary clinton battling gunfire to land in Bosnia type work there.

 

[snoopdog]

Hainsey might need a few blows throughout the game if he's going to be the starter at 2 positions and a backup at a 3rd. That's some hillary clinton battling gunfire to land in Bosnia type work there.

It's actually part of the Body by Balis plan.

HH has him gaining 325 Lbs and playing both positions at the same time.

Crus just has hainsey at OC and RT (which is somewhat challenging), whereas HH has taken a simpler route and plans to play him at LG and LT.

 

[Wild Bill]

The biggest issue I see is inconsistent play from the 3 returning starters besides Mustipher. Mustipher is a pretty darn solid center.

Hainsey and Kraemer... no idea how they graded out this year, but I thought both had some shortcommings. I'm not sure either is really a tackle. Bars just isn't nearly as good as I thought he would be... him and Nelson used to be pretty comparable if you rewind 2+ years and I just don't understand how he hasn't continued to improve. I wonder if he puts it all together next year or not.

Honestly, the only positions that seem "scary" next year are the tackles. Is Eichenberg legit? Because I don't really understand the logic of what we did at RT this year if he is... no, it is not that hard to be cross-trained. Guys in the NFL flip sides of the line all the time. Yes, everything is different but it isn't rocket science to transition from one side of the line to the other... what's more rare is going straight from the bench to LT. Stanley moved from RT to LT, McGlinchey moved from RT to LT, etc. that's how almost all teams do it. And neither Hainsey or Kraemer showed the stuff to be an elite LT.

But an interior of Kraemer-Mustipher-Bars should be very good.

Bars is going to win more battles than he'll lose and I think it's fair to say he's an very good lineman. Maybe not a great college lineman but he's close and will get it done. Q is a once in a decade type of player, and would make any other college guard look like shit in comparison.

Moving from right to left isn't impossible, I agree. However, there are some really talented linemen that simply can't do it as well as others, and their ability is diminished when they move from one side to the other. This is especially true for tackles in pass pro because their kick leg must be quicker and deeper than the guards or center.

Some tackles have more flexibility in one leg/hip than they do on the other so that leg is going to be a better kick leg. Some guys have more power in one leg than the other and that's going to be the better post leg. The two most important functions in pass pro can be negatively impacted by the switch - getting your ass out of your stance and getting your kick leg up and down as quickly as possible with as much depth as possible while still maintaining a solid base. When you are a tick slower getting out of your stance and you lose a even a few inches on your drop, you become far more susceptible to the outside speed rush. When your interior post leg isn't as strong as the other, you are going to be far more susceptible to an inside power move. When those limitations are exposed by a defensive end, you begin having mental breakdowns and find yourself off balance and completely exposed.

Hands/arms are an issue too. I always preferred having my quicker hand to my outside and my stronger arm to my inside. The outside quick hand keeps the defensive end's hands off of my outside shoulder pad (if he gets it, he controls you) and the inside power hand is used to deliver a solid blow when the defender tries to cross your face and penetrate the inside gap (an elite punch is underrated and stops them in their tracks).

Yes, most tackles CAN do both. It's just a question of if and how much their skill is diminished by playing one side over the other. It's not a great comparison but it's somewhat like a switch hitter. Yes, they can hit from both sides. But they may hit for a better average or more power on one side over the other.

 

[koonja]

My predictions in order of confidence. I feel somewhere between 100% certain and "really good" for each one of these:

- Boykin
- Griffith
- Luke Jones
- Braden Lenzy
- Tommy Tremble
- Malik Langham

- No comment on LB recruiting because it seems like we're after each and every one and I'm not sure who we snag.

 

[IrishLax]

So are we predicting --
LT Eichenberg
LG Kraemer
C Mustipher
RG Bars
RT Hainsey

...for next year? Does Banks factor in anywhere?

 

[IrishLion]

So are we predicting --
LT Eichenberg
LG Kraemer
C Mustipher
RG Bars
RT Hainsey

...for next year? Does Banks factor in anywhere?

Banks was getting really good reviews last Spring as an EE, and was holding his own in the B&G game before he got hurt.

I'd bet Harry settles pretty early on the belief that Banks is available to plug-and-play at guard, giving him time to focus on finding a 3rd tackle. Might not even need that, though, because if a tackle goes down, you just slide Kraemer out and put Banks in.

 

[BabyIrish]

So are we predicting --
LT Eichenberg
LG Kraemer
C Mustipher
RG Bars
RT Hainsey

...for next year? Does Banks factor in anywhere?

I hope they could find a way to play him in a combo like they did with Kraemer and Hainsey this year. Get him some playing experience to be ready to replace Bars next year.

 

[Luckylucci]

I hope they could find a way to play him in a combo like they did with Kraemer and Hainsey this year. Get him some playing experience to be ready to replace Bars next year.

I imagine that they'll be getting him reps throughout the season, if he's not named a starter.

 

[Luckylucci]

So are we predicting --
LT Eichenberg
LG Kraemer
C Mustipher
RG Bars
RT Hainsey

...for next year? Does Banks factor in anywhere?

This would be my best guess, as of today.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Man, who's the heir apparent at center?

 

[BobbyMac]

Man, who's the heir apparent at center?

Gotta be the salad, money!

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[zelezo vlk]

Gotta be the salad, money!

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For a year?

 

[BobbyMac]

For a year?

Sure. How is a guy named Harry gonna turn down that furry beast?

I'm stuck with Hainsey as the OC. I called it and he's the most diminutive of the OL's. After being the leader of IMG, I think he's also the best captain material too. I'd want my OC to be Capt if possible.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Sure. How is a guy named Harry gonna turn down that furry beast?

I'm stuck with Hainsey as the OC. I called it and he's the most diminutive of the OL's. After being the leader of IMG, I think he's also the best captain material too. I'd want my OC to be Capt if possible.

I was gonna add Hainsey as the heir to my post, but I figured he'd done so well at T that people wouldn't want to move him. Harry would say f*ck that, and plug in a great T at C though, letting Lugg play at RT

 

[snoopdog]

So are we predicting --
LT Eichenberg
LG Kraemer
C Mustipher
RG Bars
RT Hainsey

...for next year? Does Banks factor in anywhere?

I believe this is opening day o- line

The question marks are....

1) is Eichenberg a P5 level LT? That’s a Tall Order for a red shirt soph

2) can Hainsey be more consistent next year at RT?

3) injuries? Who’s first off the bench. My guess is Lugg. He goes to Tackle if any of the three Interior linemen go down and Hainsey moves inside. Although Ruhland may be Mustipher’s back up.

4) how long will it take this group to mesh?

 

[ab2cmiller]

I believe this is opening day o- line

The question marks are....

1) is Eichenberg a P5 level LT? That’s a Tall Order for a red shirt soph

2) can Hainsey be more consistent next year at RT?

3) injuries? Who’s first off the bench. My guess is Lugg. He goes to Tackle if any of the three Interior linemen go down and Hainsey moves inside. Although Ruland may be Mustipher’s back up.

4) how long will it take this group to mesh?

I'm going to spend the next 9 months preparing myself mentally for the inevitability of idiots calling for HH's firing during 2018. No italics.

 

[snoopdog]

I'm going to spend the next 9 months preparing myself mentally for the inevitability of idiots calling for HH's firing during 2018. No italics.

My guess...... a combination of youth and SOS will be a significant challenge for HH next year. Definitely one of his biggest challenges in his ND career.

People may be mad if the oline struggles....but that anger will be directed at BK more than HH

 

[ab2cmiller]

My guess...... a combination of youth and SOS will be a significant challenge for HH next year. Definitely one of his biggest challenges in his ND career.

People may be mad if the oline struggles....but that anger will be directed at BK more than HH

There was at least one person on here, who not more than a couple of weeks ago, suggested that maybe it's time for HH to move on because we somehow the OL couldn't block the 7 guys on the other side of the line that had stacked the box.

The idiots will be 10 times worse next year, unless Wimbush can figure things out and take some of the pressure off.

 

[Old Man Mike]

I believe that St. Harold will have plenty of top quality maulers to pick from and will easily do his magic --- remembering always that the opponents make plays too.

From Bars, Mustipher, Kraemer, Hainsey, Eichenberg, Banks, Lugg, and toss in Ruhland, Coach Harry will have a menagerie that other coaches would kill for, and four already trained in game conditions. We should also take seriously the pro coaches views that if you can get an OLineman from Wisconsin, Iowa, Stanford, OR NOTRE DAME, consider yourself lucky as those are the guys that are already properly trained for both run or pass. Harry will provide. (though I agree about the remark that certain idiots will squeal whimperingly about firing him the first poor game the offense has --- maybe the first sack.)

On a outlying possibility that I'm not quite rejecting, I wouldn't be stunned to see Hainsey as the LT next season --- think footspeed. Eichenberg would probably still start at RT, but if Banks was that good, it could be Tommy or Alex moved there, and Eichenberg fighting for time --- just mentioning this to open the window to the thought that Harry can rev up quite a bit of competition still.

 

[BobbyMac]

For all you non-Chicagolanders...

THIS is why ND is cleaning house in ND right now and why Weishar is coming back for Year 5.

I expect the CB's to start flipping for Devin O'Rourke.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The fact that a Portillos is coming to South Bend should be a main selling point for recruiting Chicago kids to come to ND <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/bigbeef?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#bigbeef</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/cheesecup?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#cheesecup</a></p>— Nic Weishar (@NicWeishar82) <a href="https://twitter.com/NicWeishar82/status/939980629466402816?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 10, 2017</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[NDdomer2]

Depending on transfers and early leaves there isn't many scholarships nor targets.

Offense:
NFP - no one knows
Luke Jones - Sticks with Ark or flips to ND.
Lawrence Keys III - has options, did ND have him on wait and see?
Lenzy - did ND do enough this weekend, does he ride it out
Any I'm missing? (intentionally left off ASB and Cota)

Defense:
Houston Griffith - already in the fold? If not, who is competition?
Kyler Gordon - ND vs UW
Malik Langham - ND, Bama, Auburn could swoop in late.

Any guys I'm missing here. Boykin apparently had his spot stole by bracy, Brown cancelled visit, Irvin? Any LBs?

 

[Luckylucci]

Depending on transfers and early leaves there isn't many scholarships nor targets.

Offense:
NFP - no one knows
Luke Jones - Sticks with Ark or flips to ND.
Lawrence Keys III - has options, did ND have him on wait and see?
Lenzy - did ND do enough this weekend, does he ride it out
Any I'm missing? (intentionally left off ASB and Cota)

Defense:
Houston Griffith - already in the fold? If not, who is competition?
Kyler Gordon - ND vs UW
Malik Langham - ND, Bama, Auburn could swoop in late.

Any guys I'm missing here. Boykin apparently had his spot stole by bracy, Brown cancelled visit, Irvin? Any LBs?

Offense: Termble with a decision on Thursday

Defense: I’d leave Boykin on the board as we should have clarity on the other DB targets soon (1 week or so) and the staff is going to continue to recruit him, in case we don’t get Gordon or Griffith.
I’d also leave Irvin, as we are still recruiting him hard and in his top 2. Solo is still on the board as we are in his top 2 and dad seems to love ND recently.

For Griffith he said that he’s been communicating with FSU and Wiscy but per II, there has been very little communication with those schools and they are skeptical he’s even giving them a real look. This week we should know more soon.