2018 - State of the Recruiting Class thread

[Luckylucci]

Wow.

You are comparing 5th year seniors and a seniors, to sophomores and freshman. Of course there will be some drop off, they have been in the system for multiple years longer, DUH! It’s happened with, literally, every succession on the OL, every time. But it’s only initially. Then those players mature, perfect their craft, and become the seniors that leave for the draft. Big Mike and Nelson weren’t this good as freshman and sophomores. . OBVIOUSLY. I’d think an OL coach would know that

I fully expect to see some sort of drop off initially in play, that’s to be expected. It’s happened every time. Stanley wasn’t as good as Martin at first. Mike wasn’t as good as Stanley at first, still might not be in pass pro. It’s a game of maturation. But this years recruiting class has absolutely nothing to do with how we’ll play Michigan or next season in general. Because if you are worried about sophomores playing against Gary, he’d have a field day with freshman.

So could this class be an issue in multiple years? It could. But that’s TBD. If we land Carroll, Olmstead, etc. We’ll just continue to have the same succession plan as always. Those guys will be on the path to playing around their sophomore/junior years.

And for comparison, all of Lugg, Banks, Hainsey, Eich and Kraemer were rated higher than Big Mike. ALL of them. Are they as good right now, as he is. Of course not, he’s a 5th year senior.

For comparison, all of Eich, Kraemer, Lugg, and Hainsey were rated higher than Stanley coming out of HS.

Not difficult to grasp.

Fun fact, our starting OL next year will more than likely consist of 5 4 star prospects. Then we’ll have a 6th and 7th OL, that were also 4 star prospects. From a recruiting rankings perspective, it will be one of the top rated OL’s in the country. They’ll just need time to gel, like all of the others have in the past.

 

[Green Mountains]

Let's look at the OL recruiting classes since 2010 (I've done that to include Bruce Heggie)

2010
Christian Lombard
Matt James - RIP
Tate Nichols
Bruce Heggie

2011
Nick Martin
Matt Hegarty
Conor Hanratty

2012
Ronnie Stanley
Mark Harrell

2013
Mike McGlinchey
John Montelus
Colin McGovern
Hunter Bivin
Steve Elmer

2014
Q Nelson
Sam Mustipher
Alex Bars
Jimmy Byrne
Sam Bush (preferred walk on)

2015
Tristen Hoge
Trevor Ruhland
Jerry Tillery (moved to DL)

2016
Tommy Kraemer
Parker Bourdeau
Liam Eichenburg

2017
Robert Hainsey
Aaron Banks
Dillon Gibbons
Joshua Lugg

2018
John Dirksen
Cole Mabry
Others to come

I just add this for perspective. Elmer was the Stud of the '13 class when recruited, started earlier than Big Mike, was good but not great, and chose to end his football career early. I think this speaks to development time as much as it does to talent.

That Kraemer was a starter and that Lugg, Hainsey & Eichenburg are HIGH on the depth chart so soon in their careers actually gives me comfort as we look at replacing two first rounders.

And when you look at the recruiting lists, its clear that ND has been doing a good (great??) job bringing in OL talent and getting them ready to play at a high level.

 

[Old Man Mike]

I haven't read this latest flurry of "debate", but I tend to judge nearer rather than farther futures when it comes to joy vs doom.

Next year (assuming Bars is back, which I think everyone assumes) we will have the equivalent of four returning starters, as both Tommy and RobertH started plenty as near twins in Coach Harry's mind (not type twins but quality twins.) That means that St. Harold needs to find one more stud and get the Five into their best spots. I wouldn't be at all surprised (and don't think anyone else will be) if Liam is the fifth stud, and that this will come with the paradoxical advantage of Coach knowing who his Fist-of-Doom is right off the bat and max out work with them.

Any OLine then needs 2 or 3 back-ups with some quality --- this year for instance we played with only 6 in the non-rotation, but we were fortunate as to no major injuries (OLine guys tend to be tough as he!l and play through.) People, including coaches, seem high on Lugg, so he is probably a very good back-up. That means finding one or two more and we can play big boy ball. In the spring they seemed to be high on Banks. I'm predicting that Harry easily finds his two next-men-in and develops a third, maybe rather easily.

That OLine will get beat by Gary sometimes but who wouldn't? I believe that asking them to "control" him involves defining what "control" would mean. If some reasonable definition of control is imagined, then yes, I think that they will control him, and do so by having guards and TEs help Hainsey out (he won't need much by next season), and Eichenberg. Tommy will slide inside, and with Bars and Mustipher the middle won't be breached much.

The year after that we lose two more starters, as is normal, and hope that Harry has planned for that, and Lugg and maybe Banks are ready to step in. The issue that I see with the OLine and the current recruitment is not the top-of-line quality for the next two years but the numbers. You can never count on untried players regardless of stars (look at our QB issues over the years.) Harry needs numbers to sift the wheat from the chaff. He CAN turn a three-star into an AA, but he needs SOMETHING good to work with.

Barring injuries, I'm not worried about next year's line. And not worried too much about the year after. But we need to get Harry four Harry-approved roadgraders per year for him to train. That's why we're still two short this cycle (regardless of how "rich" we think the NEXT cycle's crop is.)

FWIW: everybody posting on this has good points.
FWIW: I believe that this same concern applies to QB, and that our failings are partly due to signing only one QB per year. If Kelly/Long had a stable to choose from, they'd find that guy who doesn't panic when the lights go on. THEN it would be a matter of having the guts to PLAY him rather than the Eye-test Guy.

 

[IrishLion]

^Mike knows. Banks was getting rave reviews in the Spring before getting banged up in the B&G game.

I'd imagine with Kraemer sliding in at guard, and Banks providing a quality 3rd option at guard behind Kraemer/Bars, Harry will be able to focus on finding a quality 3rd option at OT. Is that Lugg, or is he a guard?

 

[Old Man Mike]

One other thing to remember about Harry, he also is pretty good at cross-training some of these guys. And Big Tommy if he's a starting guard (probably in Q's spot) has already played a lot of pretty good OT. (Steve Elmer was a guy who needed to be given ONE job and let settle into it --- I think that was because Steve was a bit too much of a thinker and overthought his play; but Tommy might not be that guy --- more of a Happy Mauler regardless of where he is.) I am more concerned at who's the back-up center. That's one place where Hoge's transfer (along with Boudreaux's) screwed the works up a bit.

 

[BobbyMac]

1. Well actually 4 came in and 4 went out. The 4 that left were at a minimum equally regarded as recruits as the 2017 vintage. You forgot to include Hoge and Boudreaux.

2. I guess you are purposefully forgetting what happens when you lose a star, like Martin or Stanley. Can you recall how the HH coached O- line did in 2016 after losing Stanley. That line did in fact have McG, Nelson, Barr and Mustipher.

3. So losing McG and Nelson shouldn't have an impact because 1) HH 2) next year is different 3) because.

4. And to add glorious insult to this situation....ND is whiffing on this years class. Yes I know.....no stars = best class ever, look at the draft as proof.

5. I only write this because I am a little underwhelmed by the outbound talent over the past three years and not enough replacements coming in to replace them.

6. So imo Your point only holds water if every single recruit out performs expectations, which we both know to be highly unlikely.

1. I didn't forget them. I omitted them because you think they suck. Tristen Hoge, a high 4* / #1 OC recruit couldn't beat out lowly rated and poor performing Sam Musitpher. P-Money was an under-sized, lowly rated, over his head, social media star. Imarite.

2. If next year's line's performance is set in stone because of 2015-2-16 results. Then why do you care who comes in this class? They will have no bearing on next year's starter's performance.

3. That's a stupid question and one no one is arguing. I 99% expect next year's O Line play to take a step back from this year's. If this year's line performed at a 9/10 then hopefully next year's only slips to and 8/10.

4. Do you know something about NPF that no one else here does? Spill it if so. YOU have no idea how Luke Jones or John Dirksen will perform as upperclass interior linemen. You have no idea how John Mabry will develop. HH is one of, if not thee most respected OL coaches in the sport. You and I are not. I'll let him do his job.

5. The R&R's do not support your statement.

6. My point invalidates your position of star worshiping and that's all it's supposed to do.

It's a shame that I'll be gone on NSD for the 2019 Class. Because HH has a monster haul in place next season that will force you to change you username. I'd have loved to be around to point that out to you.

And just to show you and anyone else that I don't think HH walks on water:

HH it's not too late...

<iframe class="twofourseven-embed" style="max-width: 100%" frameborder="0" width="600" height="200" src="https://247sports.com/PlayerSport/Finn-Dirstine-at-Lawrence-Academy-139801/Embed"></iframe><script async src="https://assets.247sports.com/Scripts/SkyNet/Shared/embed.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[beryirish]

 

[CIrishWin]

Can we take advantage of the FL St. fiasco can we steal V. Brown and Griffith.

 

[IrishFanJMercy]

With Ole Miss taking a two year ban this allows players to transfer anywhere they want? Wonder if we reach out to any of the Ole miss guys? We could use a CB or two maybe a LB or DE

 

[snoopdog]

1. I didn't forget them. I omitted them because you think they suck. Tristen Hoge, a high 4* / #1 OC recruit couldn't beat out lowly rated and poor performing Sam Musitpher. P-Money was an under-sized, lowly rated, over his head, social media star. Imarite.

2. If next year's line's performance is set in stone because of 2015-2-16 results. Then why do you care who comes in this class? They will have no bearing on next year's starter's performance.

3. That's a stupid question and one no one is arguing. I 99% expect next year's O Line play to take a step back from this year's. If this year's line performed at a 9/10 then hopefully next year's only slips to and 8/10.

4. Do you know something about NPF that no one else here does? Spill it if so. YOU have no idea how Luke Jones or John Dirksen will perform as upperclass interior linemen. You have no idea how John Mabry will develop. HH is one of, if not thee most respected OL coaches in the sport. You and I are not. I'll let him do his job.

5. The R&R's do not support your statement.

6. My point invalidates your position of star worshiping and that's all it's supposed to do.

It's a shame that I'll be gone on NSD for the 2019 Class. Because HH has a monster haul in place next season that will force you to change you username. I'd have loved to be around to point that out to you.

And just to show you and anyone else that I don't think HH walks on water:

HH it's not too late...

<iframe class="twofourseven-embed" style="max-width: 100%" frameborder="0" width="600" height="200" src="https://247sports.com/PlayerSport/Finn-Dirstine-at-Lawrence-Academy-139801/Embed"></iframe><script async src="https://assets.247sports.com/Scripts/SkyNet/Shared/embed.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I for one will completely change my tune (100%) when HH or BK or whoever start announcing a solid OL recruit.

But if HH or BK doesn’t get this recruit (s) the team will suffer in a year or two.

 

[IrishLax]

Man, looking back at my original post in this thread it'll be freaking fantastic if we land Griffith and get the two guys I thought were most important. And overrated Booker didn't end up as part of this class, so that's fine.

I'm really shocked at how well-rounded this class is on defense assuming we land a few more DBs. Elko has done an amazing job of recruiting since being signed on late last year.

On offense, obviously need another WR and I think we need a premier OL. Get those and I'm pretty content. A lot of good HH discussion both ways in this thread... usually discussions of HH are devoid of people trying to use facts and make logical arguments both ways.

 

[snoopdog]

Let's look at the OL recruiting classes since 2010 (I've done that to include Bruce Heggie)

2010
Christian Lombard
Matt James - RIP
Tate Nichols
Bruce Heggie

2011
Nick Martin
Matt Hegarty
Conor Hanratty

2012
Ronnie Stanley
Mark Harrell

2013
Mike McGlinchey
John Montelus
Colin McGovern
Hunter Bivin
Steve Elmer

2014
Q Nelson
Sam Mustipher
Alex Bars
Jimmy Byrne
Sam Bush (preferred walk on)

2015
Tristen Hoge
Trevor Ruhland
Jerry Tillery (moved to DL)

2016
Tommy Kraemer
Parker Bourdeau
Liam Eichenburg

2017
Robert Hainsey
Aaron Banks
Dillon Gibbons
Joshua Lugg

2018
John Dirksen
Cole Mabry
Others to come

I just add this for perspective. Elmer was the Stud of the '13 class when recruited, started earlier than Big Mike, was good but not great, and chose to end his football career early. I think this speaks to development time as much as it does to talent.

That Kraemer was a starter and that Lugg, Hainsey & Eichenburg are HIGH on the depth chart so soon in their careers actually gives me comfort as we look at replacing two first rounders.

And when you look at the recruiting lists, its clear that ND has been doing a good (great??) job bringing in OL talent and getting them ready to play at a high level.

Thank you for putting this together.

It basically shows the point I am trying to make ( unsuccessfully to some)

Prior to 2015 ND recruited very good oline classes and the players hung around

Since 2015 we have recruited very good o line classes and lost a lot. The 2015 looks like a completely lost cause. We got 2 excellent players in the 2016 class left and 4 in the 2017 class and to date 2 reaches the 18 class.

I don’t care if HH is Harry Houdini, he isn’t escaping from that lack of depth. He needs bodies and obviously the better players only please

Edit for one point

The reason why Hainsey, Kraemer, Lugg and Eichenberg are so high on the depth chart so young in their career is because there is no other depth to speak of.

 

[NDMIA]

2018 Class (If no offer, best academic offers according to Forbes 2017)

.9952 5* Jackson Carman - OFFER
.9949 5* Jamaree Salyer - OFFER
.9912 5* Cade Mays - OFFER
.9756 4* Penei Sewell - OFFER
.9732 5* Nick Petit-Frere - OFFER
.9604 4* Rasheed Walker - OFFER
.9562 4* Emil Ekiyor - No Offer - Duke, Vandy, Cal, Michigan, Virginia, USC, UCLA, Illinois, Maryland, Florida
.9385 4* Marquan McCall - No Offer - Michigan, Illinois, Maryland, Wisconsin
.9323 4* Tommy Brown - No Offer - Vandy, Cal, Michigan, Virginia, UCLA, Florida
.9227 4* Dawson Jaramillo - No Offer - Cal, Virginia, UCLA, Washington
.9224 4* Fredrick Suggs - No Offer - Michigan, UNC
.9153 4* Sam Taimani - OFFER
.9139 4* Verdis Brown - No Offer - Michigan, UCLA, Illinois, Maryland, Florida, Wisconsin
.9082 4* Antwan Reed - No Offer - Michigan, Florida
.9081 4* Darian Kinnard - No Offer - UCLA, BC, Maryland
.9068 4* Chris Murray - OFFER
.9067 4* Will Craig - OFFER
.8982 4* Ryan Hayes - OFFER
.8958 4* Warren Ericson - OFFER
.8939 4* Tyrone Sampson - No Offer - Virginia
.8804 4* Finn Dirstine - No Offer - Yale, Dartmouth, BC, Illinois, Miami
.8804 3* James Ohonba - OFFER
.8776 3* Luke Jones - No Offer - Yale, Princeton, Dartmouth, Virginia
.8668 3* John Dirksen - COMMITTED
.8656 3* Cole Mabry - COMMITTED

I think as good as HH is this year just wasn't his best on the trail. I do think the talent overall was down from different years. However, that's a really long list of 4* talent that had some interest in Notre Dame at some point or are in the Midwest area. There are countless examples of guys we offered very late in the process or didn't offer at all that seem very questionable. I don't know if it was Chip Long getting on board at Notre Dame might have delayed things, but this class isn't what I think it could've been. If this Luke Jones guy commits that's awesome and I think he's a good talent, but if he swings inside I can't understand how Emil Ekiyor is not a better prospect. Also, a 6'5'' 320lb beast in Finn Dirstine who Crusader loves and squats 500lbs as a 17yr old seems like an odd omission from the class. Will Craig's last offer before he committed was Notre Dame. Verdis Brown is a very similar case to Houston Griffith being a Chicago guy who went to IMG, is a consensus 4* recruit and seem like he could be a long term replacement to Sam Mustipher at Center. I obviously don't know anything compared to the venerable Harry Hiestand, but I do think the class we might get this year could be a bit down from his usual standards. If he misses on Nick Petit-Frere it could be a class of developmental, diamond-in-the-rough type guys. The exciting fact is almost every big time Midwestern OL prospect in the 2019 class made it to campus this fall for a game and that class looks really exciting.

 

[IrishLax]

I wonder if HH had some trouble this season because of some neg recruiting behind the scenes related to a couple transfers. I'm not 100% if this is the case, but privately the two transfers that requested waivers did not have good things to say about HH and I don't know how much of that "got around" or if it matters or not... I'm really just spitballing. The guys who have been successful under HH rave about him but there is no doubt that he coaches guys hard and there has to be a fit from a disposition standpoint for that to work out.

 

[NDdomer2]

man some people arent happy if they arent happy.

I think VDP hit some good points but doubt he gets a real reply.

props to all who actually took time to respond with real thoughts and facts

 

[NDMIA]

That's a great point. I think the NFL Draft of the last few years might outweigh the transfers, but I think it could've had an affect.

 

[NDdomer2]

I wonder if HH had some trouble this season because of some neg recruiting behind the scenes related to a couple transfers. I'm not 100% if this is the case, but privately the two transfers that requested waivers did not have good things to say about HH and I don't know how much of that "got around" or if it matters or not... I'm really just spitballing. The guys who have been successful under HH rave about him but there is no doubt that he coaches guys hard and there has to be a fit from a disposition standpoint for that to work out.

sour grapes right? You can find this in nearly every single sports team. The kids not playing arent happy and the kids who are, love life.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Let's say everyone finally sees the light and agrees with you. We all decide you have a firm grip on the situation, what would you like to do about it? Besides complain incessantly, what is your hope in this thread?

Snoopdog, I'm very interested in your response

 

[ab2cmiller]

There were only 3 offers that went out to OL before Dirksen (Jackson Carman, Jamaree Salyer, and Jame Ohonba). HH obviously thinks highly of Dirksen. Dirksen comes from a small school, is quiet (including social media) and didn't do a lot of camp stuff which tends to hurt rankings.

 

[snoopdog]

Snoopdog, I'm very interested in your response

Well obviously restock the cupboard. As I have pointed out, The cupboard is getting pretty thin right now.

I know all the talk about 2019 being a windfall....but I am somewhat mindful of counting chickens..........

I thought after the graduations and transfers 2018 was the year to go after 5 OL, not delay it a year....but yes NPF does make a difference....if he chooses else where....this team needs a lot of luck to scrape through the next 2-3 years with very limited depth.

 

[Bubbles]

With Ole Miss taking a two year ban this allows players to transfer anywhere they want? Wonder if we reach out to any of the Ole miss guys? We could use a CB or two maybe a LB or DE

Do you think we can afford them?

 

[OhioIrish31]

Well obviously restock the cupboard. As I have pointed out, The cupboard is getting pretty thin right now.

I know all the talk about 2019 being a windfall....but I am somewhat mindful of counting chickens..........

I thought after the graduations and transfers 2018 was the year to go after 5 OL, not delay it a year....but yes NPF does make a difference....if he chooses else where....this team needs a lot of luck to scrape through the next 2-3 years with very limited depth.

This could be said for any of the position categories...why such a 'summit' on OL recruiting? I'm of the belief that as long as HH is here we'll always be fine with our OL. I do understand Snoopdog's passion and scrutiny for his position...mine is Safety where I played in college and a short stay at the next level. OL is not and will not be our problem...IMO.

 

[Old Man Mike]

I have one last amateurish thought: some OLine kids just must have some of the same thought processes as other position players regarding early playing time. The OLine guys will know that their frosh year is learning from the sidelines, but what about after that? Some young ambitious studs may see two VERY young Irish tackles and think: damm! those guys are going to be hard to get out of there and I want to be a tackle.

That's the sort of "negative recruiting" I'd expect more than some sour grapes from some recruit they've never met. (And ...Whether WE think that Tommy is moving to guard would have nothing to do with the recruiting matter, except when Harry's talking to them. He might be able to get that across if the family thought it was something they wanted to discuss. My guess is that a guy like Harry would straight-shoot every comment he made.

Plus, kids have to meet and spend some time with Harry and his linemen to get comfortable. My impression from everywhere is that Harry is not warm-and-fuzzy, so you have to be a fairly serious kid about personal development to want to play for him. My deduction is therefore that high-school self-assessed supermen might not think that they need to put up with that, and guys like Saban and Meyer will lie to them about it when Harry won't.)

Another thing that a young stud with ambitions to play NFL tackle might be negged about is Notre Dame's constant need to turn tackles into guards and, horrors, centers. Probably every big time school has to do this, but places like OSU and Bama can lie about it, and say their tackles won't stay four years anyway.

It wouldn't make any difference how much of the negativity was true or unique to Notre Dame --- I'm sure that the immoral graspers will say anything they can to put doubt in a kid's head.

 

[BobbyMac]

Thanks GM for posting this so I didn't have to. I added position & 247's R&R's.

2010 ..... Could've been a good class but only Lombard started 1.5 yr.
Matt James - RIP - OT - 4*/95
Christian Lombard - OG - 4*/92 - 2 yr starter
Tate Nichols - OT - 0*/UR
Bruce Heggie - TE - 0*/UR

2011 ..... Didn't look like much but produced 3 yr starter/capt + 2 spot starters.
Matt Hegarty - OT - 4*/95 - spot starts for injuries
Nick Martin - OG - 3*/88 - 3 yr starter
Conor Hanratty - OG - 3*/83 - spot starts for injuries

2012 ..... As a class, not good but Stanley (3 yr) + Decker could've been something.
Ronnie Stanley - OT - 4*/95 - 3 yr. starter
Mark Harrell - OG - 3*/87
*Taylor Decker - OT - 4*/92 ..... Deco'd & went w/ Warinner to OSU after Ronnie committed

2013 ..... Best class on paper yet produced just 5.33 seasons of starters
Hunter Bivin - OT - 4*/96
Mike McGlinchey - OT - 4*/94 - 3 yr. starter
Steve Elmer - OT - 4*/94 - 2.33 yr starter
John Montelus - OT - 4*/90
Colin McGovern - OT - 4*/90

2014 ..... Best year by starters. Will *likely* produce 9 seasons of starters.
Q Nelson - OT - 4*/96 - 3 yr starter
Alex Bars - OT - 4*/94 - 3 yr starter*
Sam Mustipher - OG - 3*/89 - 3 yr stater*
Jimmy Byrne - OG - 3*/88
Sam Bush (PWO)

2015 ..... 0 starts - but Ruhland could end up starting OC by injury or GS yr.
Jerry Tillery - OT - 4*/96
Tristen Hoge - OC - 4*/95
Trevor Ruhland - OG - 3*/88

2016 ..... Highest avg ever. Looks to provide 2 multi year starters.
Tommy Kraemer - OT - 5*/98 - split RT w/ Hainsey
Liam Eichenburg - OT - 4*/95
Parker Bourdeau - OG - 4*/92

2017 ..... Great follow up class to '16. Already has .5 yr starter.
Joshua Lugg - OT - 4*/95
Robert Hainsey - OG - 4*/94 - Split RT w/ Kraemer
Aaron Banks - OT - 4*/92
Dillon Gibbons - 3*/88

2018 ..... TBD. Add NPF? Dirksen way underrated due to location and Jr. injury.
John Dirksen - OT - 3*/87
Cole Mabry - OT - 3*/86
???
NPF - OT - 5*/98
Luke Jones - OT - 3*/88

I wonder if HH had some trouble this season because of some neg recruiting behind the scenes related to a couple transfers. I'm not 100% if this is the case, but privately the two transfers that requested waivers did not have good things to say about HH and I don't know how much of that "got around" or if it matters or not... I'm really just spitballing. The guys who have been successful under HH rave about him but there is no doubt that he coaches guys hard and there has to be a fit from a disposition standpoint for that to work out.

Tough year for a top kid to come in behind Eichenberg, Kraemer and Hainsey w/ 3 yrs of eligibility plus Lugg and Banks with 4. Those 5 could be your starters in 2020. That's a young, highly rated core to deal with for an '18 recruit + Quinn & Olmstead are hovering in 2019.

I for one will completely change my tune (100%) when HH or BK or whoever start announcing a solid OL recruit.

But if HH or BK doesn’t get this recruit (s) the team will suffer in a year or two.

Did line play suffer this year because of 2015's poor class? No. '13 & '14 provided 3 seasons worth of starters. '16 & '17 will due the same, unless something like Dirksen beats out Banks or NPF beats out Lugg or Eichenberg.

Thank you for putting this together.

It basically shows the point I am trying to make ( unsuccessfully to some)

Prior to 2015 ND recruited very good oline classes and the players hung around

Since 2015 we have recruited very good o line classes and lost a lot. The 2015 looks like a completely lost cause. We got 2 excellent players in the 2016 class left and 4 in the 2017 class and to date 2 reaches the 18 class.

I don’t care if HH is Harry Houdini, he isn’t escaping from that lack of depth. He needs bodies and obviously the better players only please v

Say the '18 class turns out to be the '15 class only with 3 depth players, not 1 like '15 provided. How is ND going to be in trouble? HH has been running this ship since '14-'15 on Stanley, N Martin, McGlinchey, Elmer, Q, Bars & Mustipher plus
3*-4* depth. The '16-'17 guys will still have Bars and Mustipher leading NEXT season. If the guys from 2018 are no more than quality depth like the Hegerty's and McGovern's of the past, they will be fine.

1. If this Luke Jones guy commits that's awesome and I think he's a good talent, but if he swings inside I can't understand how Emil Ekiyor is not a better prospect?

2. Also, a 6'5'' 320lb beast in Finn Dirstine who Crusader loves and squats 500lbs as a 17yr old seems like an odd omission from the class.

3. Will Craig's last offer before he committed was Notre Dame.

4. Verdis Brown is a very similar case to Houston Griffith being a Chicago guy who went to IMG, is a consensus 4* recruit and seem like he could be a long term replacement to Sam Mustipher at Center.
.

1. Jones plays on a fast paced team that is known coast to coast for that style. Wouldn't surprise me is UCLA came afer him tomorrow. Emil Ekiyor and HH is like oil and water. One of the analysts told us he was too fat, too slow, not athletic enough and then he guys and sets the Opening Regional testing on fire. There's probably more to the story than we'll ever know. Something like why ND fan boy, Antonio Alfano never'll get an offer.

2. Finn Dirstine... I lit a candle for him today at First Friday.

3. Will Craig is a project. Project who wanted to stay in Cali.

4. He had hurdles.

There were only 3 offers that went out to OL before Dirksen (Jackson Carman, Jamaree Salyer, and Jame Ohonba). HH obviously thinks highly of Dirksen. Dirksen comes from a small school, is quiet (including social media) and didn't do a lot of camp stuff which tends to hurt rankings.

Everyone who saw him liked him. He went to MSU's camp before his Jr year and was the MVP. Got a quick Sparty offer. Camped at ND & I think Northwestern who offered. HH holds off and he gets hurt, missed Jr. year. HH still offers after the season was over and before Dirksen can hit the summer camp season. HE commits to ND in March thus his R&R's get stunted along with the offers. Bill Greene who covers Ohio for Scout was so impressed with Dirksen that magically, Dirksen was the #9 OT on their board. When they deleted Scout, that high ranking getting pulled really hurt his 247/Composite score. Wiltfong nor the OSU/247 guys never got out and covered him like Greene did and he's been an 3*/87 with them from the beginning to now. When he's named the Ohio playoffs MVP and OSU/UM/PSU makes a late, lazy run at him he'll end up a 90+, 4*.

 

[snoopdog]

Thanks GM for posting this so I didn't have to. I added position & 247's R&R's.

2010 ..... Could've been a good class but only Lombard started 1.5 yr.
Matt James - RIP - OT - 4*/95
Christian Lombard - OG - 4*/92 - 2 yr starter
Tate Nichols - OT - 0*/UR
Bruce Heggie - TE - 0*/UR

2011 ..... Didn't look like much but produced 3 yr starter/capt + 2 spot starters.
Matt Hegarty - OT - 4*/95 - spot starts for injuries
Nick Martin - OG - 3*/88 - 3 yr starter
Conor Hanratty - OG - 3*/83 - spot starts for injuries

2012 ..... As a class, not good but Stanley (3 yr) + Decker could've been something.
Ronnie Stanley - OT - 4*/95 - 3 yr. starter
Mark Harrell - OG - 3*/87
*Taylor Decker - OT - 4*/92 ..... Deco'd & went w/ Warinner to OSU after Ronnie committed

2013 ..... Best class on paper yet produced just 5.33 seasons of starters
Hunter Bivin - OT - 4*/96
Mike McGlinchey - OT - 4*/94 - 3 yr. starter
Steve Elmer - OT - 4*/94 - 2.33 yr starter
John Montelus - OT - 4*/90
Colin McGovern - OT - 4*/90

2014 ..... Best year by starters. Will *likely* produce 9 seasons of starters.
Q Nelson - OT - 4*/96 - 3 yr starter
Alex Bars - OT - 4*/94 - 3 yr starter*
Sam Mustipher - OG - 3*/89 - 3 yr stater*
Jimmy Byrne - OG - 3*/88
Sam Bush (PWO)

2015 ..... 0 starts - but Ruhland could end up starting OC by injury or GS yr.
Jerry Tillery - OT - 4*/96
Tristen Hoge - OC - 4*/95
Trevor Ruhland - OG - 3*/88

2016 ..... Highest avg ever. Looks to provide 2 multi year starters.
Tommy Kraemer - OT - 5*/98 - split RT w/ Hainsey
Liam Eichenburg - OT - 4*/95
Parker Bourdeau - OG - 4*/92

2017 ..... Great follow up class to '16. Already has .5 yr starter.
Joshua Lugg - OT - 4*/95
Robert Hainsey - OG - 4*/94 - Split RT w/ Kraemer
Aaron Banks - OT - 4*/92
Dillon Gibbons - 3*/88

2018 ..... TBD. Add NPF? Dirksen way underrated due to location and Jr. injury.
John Dirksen - OT - 3*/87
Cole Mabry - OT - 3*/86
???
NPF - OT - 5*/98
Luke Jones - OT - 3*/88



Tough year for a top kid to come in behind Eichenberg, Kraemer and Hainsey w/ 3 yrs of eligibility plus Lugg and Banks with 4. Those 5 could be your starters in 2020. That's a young, highly rated core to deal with for an '18 recruit + Quinn & Olmstead are hovering in 2019.



Did line play suffer this year because of 2015's poor class? No. '13 & '14 provided 3 seasons worth of starters. '16 & '17 will due the same, unless something like Dirksen beats out Banks or NPF beats out Lugg or Eichenberg.





Say the '18 class turns out to be the '15 class only with 3 depth players, not 1 like '15 provided. How is ND going to be in trouble? HH has been running this ship since '14-'15 on Stanley, N Martin, McGlinchey, Elmer, Q, Bars & Mustipher plus
3*-4* depth. The '16-'17 guys will still have Bars and Mustipher leading NEXT season. If the guys from 2018 are no more than quality depth like the Hegerty's and McGovern's of the past, they will be fine.




1. Jones plays on a fast paced team that is known coast to coast for that style. Wouldn't surprise me is UCLA came afer him tomorrow. Emil Ekiyor and HH is like oil and water. One of the analysts told us he was too fat, too slow, not athletic enough and then he guys and sets the Opening Regional testing on fire. There's probably more to the story than we'll ever know. Something like why ND fan boy, Antonio Alfano never'll get an offer.

2. Finn Dirstine... I lit a candle for him today at First Friday.

3. Will Craig is a project. Project who wanted to stay in Cali.

4. He had hurdles.




Everyone who saw him liked him. He went to MSU's camp before his Jr year and was the MVP. Got a quick Sparty offer. Camped at ND & I think Northwestern who offered. HH holds off and he gets hurt, missed Jr. year. HH still offers after the season was over and before Dirksen can hit the summer camp season. HE commits to ND in March thus his R&R's get stunted along with the offers. Bill Greene who covers Ohio for Scout was so impressed with Dirksen that magically, Dirksen was the #9 OT on their board. When they deleted Scout, that high ranking getting pulled really hurt his 247/Composite score. Wiltfong nor the OSU/247 guys never got out and covered him like Greene did and he's been an 3*/87 with them from the beginning to now. When he's named the Ohio playoffs MVP and OSU/UM/PSU makes a late, lazy run at him he'll end up a 90+, 4*.

Silly question, but what if Kraemer and Eichenberg go pro after this year

 

[ab2cmiller]

Silly question, but what if Kraemer and Eichenberg go pro after this year

Ok now you are just baiting us. LOL

 

[IrishLion]

Silly question, but what if Kraemer and Eichenberg go pro after this year

Then Lugg and Banks/Gibbons step in? And/or one of the dudes in this class is a star that no one saw coming, ala Hainsey?

 

[BobbyMac]

Silly question, but what if Kraemer and Eichenberg go pro after this year

Then next year's O Line would most likely be better than this year's and 2019's starting OL is:

LT - Josh Lugg - Jr.
LG - Aaron Banks - Jr.
OC - Robert Hainsey - Jr. / Trevor Ruhland - GS
RG - Dillon Gibbons - Jr. / John Dirksen - So / Luke Jones - So.
RT - NPF - So. / Robert Hainsey JR.

See how that works? Eazy peezy.

 

[Luckylucci]

Silly question, but what if Kraemer and Eichenberg go pro after this year

Then our OL next year is badass and your previous comments make you look even more foolish, lol.

 

[Luckylucci]

FWIW, I think Jones's film is good. He moves really well. With as much pulling as we do with our guards, he seems like a good fit. I would bet this is what HH sees. But he's probably a scout team OL so who cares