2018 - State of the Recruiting Class thread

[Luckylucci]

I give the staff credit for getting Lamb and Simon. Those are huge wins, and I posted that in both threads.

But getting 1 player doesn't mean the recruitment of everyone else is all of a sudden rosey. The lack of interested 5 star, 4-star, 3-star CBs is mind blowing. We should have 3 corners on campus as we speak. Getting Lamb doesn't make this better, it makes the LB recruiting much better.

And they don't make Booker/Oweh's, and when they do, ND needs to get them. Don't give up at first sign of obstacle, that's so soft.
"OSU was always going to get him" I don't buy. He wouldn't have visited ND twice if he was always going to OSU. We had a chance, and we need him way more than OSU does. And they beat us.

1. That's a you issue to fit your narrative. Trolling.

2. Nobody is giving up, this is once again a Koon made up statement to make your concerns look more valid than they are. FAKE NEWS. We've continued to recruit him hard (Booker), and that is one of the reasons he hasn't committed to Stanford. Now he's planning OV's to both. More TROLLING.

 

[BeauBenken]

I give the staff credit for getting Lamb and Simon. Those are huge wins, and I posted that in both threads.

But getting 1 player doesn't mean the recruitment of everyone else is all of a sudden rosey. The lack of interested 5 star, 4-star, 3-star CBs is mind blowing. We should have 3 corners on campus as we speak. Getting Lamb doesn't make this better, it makes the LB recruiting much better.

And they don't make Booker/Oweh's, and when they do, ND needs to get them. Don't give up at first sign of obstacle, that's so soft.

"OSU was always going to get him" I don't buy. He wouldn't have visited ND twice if he was always going to OSU. We had a chance, and we need him way more than OSU does. And they beat us.

You must have missed where I said if this had been your initial complaint, you would have a point. I wish we were recruiting DEs and CBs better too.

As well, if landing one kid doesn't make all of recruiting rosey, neither does missing out on one kid make all of recruiting shitty.

 

[NDohio]

At a certain point, it doesn't matter. There are some recruits that you cannot miss on. This was a cannot miss. 5-star upside DEs with elite academic backgrounds are unicorns. When they do show themselves, and they visit you twice, you cannot let them go sit the bench at OSU if you're ND.

It's like at work when you have a project that needs to be done. And the employees keep coming back saying why it's difficult, or can't be done. And you say it does not matter, it has to be done, I don't care what it takes. Those projects always get done.

The lenses that you see the world through are really different than the ones most of us have...

 

[koonja]

1. That's a you issue to fit your narrative. Trolling.

2. Nobody is giving up, this is once again a Koon made up statement to make your concerns look more valid than they are. FAKE NEWS. We've continued to recruit him hard (Booker), and that is one of the reasons he hasn't committed to Stanford. Now he's planning OV's to both. More TROLLING.

Your trolling narrative is childish. Do you have any inside sources? Or do you subscribe to any pay sites? Reporters that interact with him say if he was choosing ND, he probably would have by now because he has nothing else to see.

Booker and Oweh were unicorns lobbed up to ND, and we're losing one to a team 3,000 miles away that fills the stadium once per year, and the other to a football factory at a state school where he'll sit the bench the majority/all of his career.

That's not trolling. That's being disappointed in the specific situations. Don't even get me back to corner back recruiting, which is even worse.

 

[Domina Nostra]

At a certain point, it doesn't matter. There are some recruits that you cannot miss on. This was a cannot miss. 5-star upside DEs with elite academic backgrounds are unicorns. When they do show themselves, and they visit you twice, you cannot let them go sit the bench at OSU if you're ND.

It's like at work when you have a project that needs to be done. And the employees keep coming back saying why it's difficult, or can't be done. And you say it does not matter, it has to be done, I don't care what it takes. Those projects always get done.

Booker was not lobbed up to ND. Stanford is his dream school and he got an offer the summer before his senior year while he was still uncommitted.

When you say "you can't miss on," I agree to the degree that ND can't miss on Owehs and expect to play for the title year in and year out.

But they can miss on them in the sense that, unlike sales projects and things like that, kids are human beings and can simply choose to go somewhere else no matter what you do. Otherwise the world would explode when Meyer, Sweeney, and Saban go head to head for a recruit--the kid can't choose all three at once.

But as you know, the reason it works for them is because those schools don't actually "need" to get any particular 5-star player. They can get other similar 5-star players. That is why OSU and Alabama are in the playoffs so consistently. They have access to a bigger pool, and fill their needs from it every year.

The fact that we "can't afford to miss" on certain kids from such a narrow profile is why we WON'T compete for championships every year. ND simply is not going to hit on all of them. The Michigans, Stanfords, UCLAs and even OSUs snag a few of them.

Now you can make yourself feel better by firing the Coach in the name of accountability and hiring a new guy to recruit more like Harbaugh or Mora. If the stars align they may have a Kelly year 3 and you can convince yourself that it was a result of your tough decision-making.

But until ND lowers its standards, it is going to have roster holes. Could it have less than it does now with a different coach? Maybe. But its going to have holes until it goes "all in" like the Bammers and AN Ohio State University.

 

[Luckylucci]

Your trolling narrative is childish. Do you have any inside sources? Or do you subscribe to any pay sites? Reporters that interact with him say if he was choosing ND, he probably would have by now because he has nothing else to see.

Booker and Oweh were unicorns lobbed up to ND, and we're losing one to a team 3,000 miles away that fills the stadium once per year, and the other to a football factory at a state school where he'll sit the bench the majority/all of his career.

That's not trolling. That's being disappointed in the specific situations. Don't even get me back to corner back recruiting, which is even worse.

You said that we (ND staff) are giving up at the first sign of obstacle, and that it was soft. That is NOT TRUE, and you know that. That is trolling. You can keep trying to run in circles but it's sad.

The only childish thing here, is your attempt at drawing attention to yourself by literally making things up. I had a lot more respect for you up until a couple of weeks ago.

 

[NDohio]

Booker was not lobbed up to ND. Stanford is his dream school and he got an offer the summer before his senior year while he was still uncommitted.

When you say "you can't miss on," I agree to the degree that ND can't miss on Owehs and expect to play for the title year in and year out.

But they can miss on them in the sense that, unlike sales projects and things like that, kids are human beings and can simply choose to go somewhere else no matter what you do. Otherwise the world would explode when Meyer, Sweeney, and Saban go head to head for a recruit--the kid can't choose all three at once.

But as you know, the reason it works for them is because those schools don't actually "need" to get any particular 5-star player. They can get other similar 5-star players. That is why OSU and Alabama are in the playoffs so consistently. They have access to a huge pool, and fill their needs from it every year.

The fact that we "can't afford to miss" on certain kids from such a narrow profile is why we WON'T compete for championships every year. ND simply is not going to hit on all of them. The Michigans, Stanfords, UCLAs and even OSUs snag a few of them.

Now you can make yourself feel better by firing the Coach in the name of accountability and hiring a new guy to recruit more like Harbaugh or Mora. If the stars align they may have a Kelly year 3 and you can convince yourself that it was a result of your tough decision-making.

But until ND lowers its standards, it is going to have roster holes. Could it have less than it does now with a different coach? Maybe. But its going to have holes until it goes all in like the Bammers and AN Ohio State University.

Reps...

 

[Luckylucci]

Booker was not lobbed up to ND. Stanford is his dream school and he got an offer the summer before his senior year while he was still uncommitted.

When you say "you can't miss on," I agree to the degree that ND can't miss on Owehs and expect to play for the title year in and year out.

But they can miss on them in the sense that, unlike sales projects and things like that, kids are human beings and can simply choose to go somewhere else no matter what you do. Otherwise the world would explode when Meyer, Sweeney, and Saban go head to head for a recruit--the kid can't choose all three at once.

But as you know, the reason it works for them is because those schools don't actually "need" to get any particular 5-star player. They can get other similar 5-star players. That is why OSU and Alabama are in the playoffs so consistently. They have access to a huge pool, and fill their needs from it every year.

The fact that we "can't afford to miss" on certain kids from such a narrow profile is why we WON'T compete for championships every year. ND simply is not going to hit on all of them. The Michigans, Stanfords, UCLAs and even OSUs snag a few of them.

Now you can make yourself feel better by firing the Coach in the name of accountability and hiring a new guy to recruit more like Harbaugh or Mora. If the stars align they may have a Kelly year 3 and you can convince yourself that it was a result of your tough decision-making.

But until ND lowers its standards, it is going to have roster holes. Could it have less than it does now with a different coach? Maybe. But its going to have holes until it goes all in like the Bammers and AN Ohio State University.

He knows this, as does everyone, that is why it's trolling.

 

[koonja]

You said that we (ND staff) are giving up at the first sign of resistance, and that it was soft. That is NOT TRUE, and you know that. That is trolling. You can keep trying to run in circles but it's sad.

The only childish thing here, is your attempt at drawing attention to yourself by literally making things up. I had a lot more respect for you up until a couple of weeks ago.

I'm not making anything up. I'm extremely disappointed in the recruitment of all cornerbacks and Oweh and Booker.

If you have a problem with that, OK. Sweet responses. Next time tell me less.

 

[koonja]

He knows this, as does everyone, that is why it's trolling.

Nobody's trolling, quit being dramatic.

I don't like CB or DE recruiting. You say 'what can you do'. We disagree.

 

[Luckylucci]

I'm not making anything up. I'm extremely disappointed in the recruitment of all cornerbacks and Oweh and Booker.

If you have a problem with that, OK. Sweet responses. Next time tell me less.

Did we stop recruiting Booker?

 

[koonja]

Did we stop recruiting Booker?

All together, probably not.

At a level hard enough to get him, probably.

 

[NDdomer2]

Not Lucci, but oh well...

The problem with all of this is that it is July. It's still summer. There is still a long way to go before we get too worked up over who we are not getting. If we are in November and we still aren't having any success at recruiting CB or DE, then panic. Your seem to always want the recruits to commit the moment their visit is over. That's just an unrealistic expectation at Notre Dame and someone that has been a fan as long as you have should know that.

That is what wears on many posters...

id buy in the "its early" comment for CB recruiting had we landed some last year. but a year after taking nothing the staff have yet to accurately identify a core group (i would consider this around 5/6 recruits, since we need 3) of likely recruiting fits.

Either we eventually passed or they passed on us. We have what appears to be 2 in this group (Bracy and Burton, let me know if I've left someone out).

This isnt even "wanting them to commit", this is fit ND mentally/socially as well as athletically and have reciprocating interest (i.e. summer visits).

I don't think its an unrealistic expectation that ND would be able to attract 1 CB that could be deemed a possible day 1 contributor (not starter) the year after taking 0, or find 5/6 recruits that fit the ND mold by July that we have keyed in on going into OV's/season.

 

[koonja]

id buy in the "its early" comment for CB recruiting had we landed some last year. but a year after taking nothing the staff have yet to accurately identify a core group (i would consider this around 5/6 recruits, since we need 3) of likely recruiting fits.

Either we eventually passed or they passed on us. We have what appears to be 2 in this group (Bracy and Burton, let me know if I've left someone out).

This isnt even "wanting them to commit", this is fit ND mentally/socially as well as athletically and have reciprocating interest (i.e. summer visits).

I don't think its an unrealistic expectation that ND would be able to attract 1 CB that could be deemed a possible day 1 contributor (not starter) the year after taking 0, or find 5/6 recruits that fit the ND mold by July that we have keyed in on going into OV's/season.

This guy gets it.

 

[Luckylucci]

All together, probably not.

At a level hard enough to get him, probably.

So not only do you not know but you have no F'ing clue. Yet, you said that we did, give up at first sign of obstacle. So that is making it up. Then called the staff soft because of an assumption that you are "making up."

 

[koonja]

So not only do you not know but you have no F'ing clue. Yet, you said that we did, give up at first sign of obstacle. So that is making it up. Then called the staff soft because of an assumption that you are "making up."

You're being very aggressive, on top of name calling. Not cool.

I was talking about the posters defending that fact that it's OK we don't get people because OSU/Stanford. It's like as soon as they enter the conversation you act like 'well what are you going to do', and just accept it.

That's not how ND should be viewed. We have a lot to sell, specifically in the situations I've outlined.

So what you're berating me about, isn't even on point. Yes the staff is recruiting them, albeit not well enough to get them. I'm saying that fans throwing in the towel and saying "well yeah but Urban wants him" is a soft mindset. I can see how you thought I was referring to the staff because in my previous sentence I was talking about the staff, but this was a different point in a different sentence.

I should have clarified it's the fans perspective of how far of a back seat we should accept to OSU/Stanford/Bama, etc is.

 

[koonja]

I'll leave it at this.

If you think it's acceptable that we didn't close on Oweh, or Booker, two Ivy League DE's who are facing an impossible depth chart at a state school, or electing to go 3,000 miles to play for an empty stadium at a school who offered you late, it's best we do not talk ND recruiting together.

If you think it's cool that we can't get a 5 star, 4, star, and struggle mightly to get 3-star CBs to ND given we took none last year, and we have none visiting the remainder of the summer, or in general interested besides a couple, it's best we do not talk ND recruiting.

Because we're living in two different realities.

I will try to be more positive about where we are recruiting well (LB, Safety, RB, DT) - although that praise is well documented from multiple angles. But I'm not going to concede that everything is rosey in regards to the DEs and CBs just because in general, we're doing a great job at multiple positions.

 

[Domina Nostra]

I was talking about the posters defending that fact that it's OK we don't get people because OSU/Stanford. It's like as soon as they enter the conversation you act like 'well what are you going to do', and just accept it. . . . So what you're berating me about, isn't even on point. Yes the staff is recruiting them, albeit not well enough to get them. I'm saying that fans throwing in the towel and saying "well yeah but Urban wants him" is a soft mindset.

It doesn't matter on any level if me, you, or any fan have the right recruiting mindset. We aren't doing the recruiting. We have no impact on anything.

But it's not "soft" for, say, Swarbrick to analyze the situation and conclude that you can't expect Kelly to win every battle for every kid that fits in a certain recruiting profile. There is absolutely no basis for concluding that he can. That's a completely unfair as a manager/boss. It's the Lonzo Ball "speak it into existence" worldview. "I know you weren't grinding because you lost."

Kelly's recruiting maybe subpar for a lot of reasons, but you can't judge it based on the results they get with respect to any individual kid in a head-to-head battle with other schools that are similarly situated. It makes no sense. That's just not how recruiting works. There are too many variables.

Again, Kelly and Co. might not be recruiting these kids hard enough, I have no idea from the outside. But, even if they were, their commitment is not inevitable.

 

[BeauBenken]

I'm not making anything up. I'm extremely disappointed in the recruitment of all cornerbacks and Oweh and Booker.

If you have a problem with that, OK. Sweet responses. Next time tell me less.

I wish that had been your original point instead.

 

[Domina Nostra]

I wish that had been your original point instead.

Me too. I would have said, "Agreed."

 

[OCIrish]

I wish that had been your original point instead.

Me too. I would have said, "Agreed."

What......and miss out on Koon needlessly bitching about everything the staff ISN'T doing????? C'mon fellas, we'd be missing out on pure gold!!

 

[BGIF]

What......and miss out on Koon needlessly bitching about everything the staff ISN'T doing????? C'mon fellas, we'd be missing out on pure gold!!

Make that Fool's Gold.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

So where are Ovie O and Bo Bauer (OO and BB) slotted with the pickups of Simon and Lamb?

 

[koonja]

So where do Ovie O and Bo Bauer (OO and BB) slotted with the pickups of Simon and Lamb?

And Justin Are. Or is he confirmed DE now?

 

[OCIrish]

Make that Fool's Gold.

I'll allow it!!

 

[Irish#1]

You don't lose on Oweh for the aforementioned reasons. You simply recruit him so hard because you have so much to offer for a kid like that (academics and football opportunities). That type of recruit has been so hard for ND to find at DE, you simply don't lose him after visiting twice this summer.

Booker - we all know the story. Burton and every other corner we can't get near campus, etc.

Acting like getting a couple of recruits means all the other summer recruiting of other kids went well, is dumb.

First, how do you know they aren't recruiting them hard? Maybe he visited twice because they pressured him to. From your perspective this should be an easy decision, but maybe it's not for the recruit. Simply because ND checks all the boxes from your viewpoint doesn't mean the recruit feels the same way. ND asks kids to think about it before they commit. They don't want to go through the same crap we did a few years back. If the staff recognizes that a kid is truly leaning another direction, coming hard at him and getting a commitment, makes the odds of them flipping or transferring later that much greater. I have to believe the staff sees the CB and DE depth and is working hard on it. Simply because they haven't landed some kids or they don't keep any of us informed doesn't mean they aren't working hard.

 

[BeauBenken]

And Justin Are. Or is he confirmed DE now?

No way Justin isn't a defensive end. He's already close to 250 and has a similar frame to his brother.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320A using Tapatalk

 

[Luckylucci]

No way Justin isn't a defensive end. He's already close to 250 and has a similar frame to his brother.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320A using Tapatalk

Correct, he's always been recruited as a Drop/WDE, though some think he could grow into a SDE.

 

[koonja]

No way Justin isn't a defensive end. He's already close to 250 and has a similar frame to his brother.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320A using Tapatalk

Correct, he's always been recruited as a Drop/WDE, though some think he could grow into a SDE.

He's listed as a DE on 247, and people think he could grow into a WDE, but there's no way he's a DE?

 

[IrishLion]

I'm extremely disappointed in the recruitment of all cornerbacks and Oweh and Booker.

This is a much better take than your original, "everything sucks because we haven't gotten commitments from guys that should be committing, even if my desire for their commitments doesn't match their stated timetables."