2017 NFL Draft

[pkt77242]

Watson was top 5 in QBR each of the last two seasons, was a Heisman finalist both years, lost 2 games total, won a Championship, and has no major/obvious flaws.

I can't believe we are actually debating Watson v. Kizer right now. I know this is a Notre Dame site but come on people.

I think you are overrating Watson. About 50% of his passes traveled 5 yards or less in the air. It is very easy to be accurate when all you do is throw short.

Deshaun Watson by Distance – 13 games (with video)

On passes traveling down the field 21yards+, he completed 34%. Look at the breakdown.

 

[GATTACA!]

Watson was top 5 in QBR each of the last two seasons, was a Heisman finalist both years, lost 2 games total, won a Championship, and has no major/obvious flaws.

I can't believe we are actually debating Watson v. Kizer right now. I know this is a Notre Dame site but come on people.

Come on no obvious flaws?? Are we watching the same QB?

 

[gkIrish]

I think you are overrating Watson. About 50% of his passes traveled 5 yards or less in the air. It is very easy to be accurate when all you do is throw short.

Deshaun Watson by Distance – 13 games (with video)

On passes traveling down the field 21yards+, he completed 34%. Look at the breakdown.

Look you can post statistics, but he just torched the best defense in football, does nothing but win, and is a leader. The NFL is actually becoming a league where you throw short and let playmakers make plays. The Cowboys do it, the Patriots do it, pretty much every good team does it. Dak Prescott might win the MVP and he is terrible at throwing down the field.

 

[gkIrish]

Come on no obvious flaws?? Are we watching the same QB?

Did you watch the game last night? Not being perfect at something does not make it a flaw. He is capable of making every throw. He has great mobility. He is tough. No off the field issues. Leader. Winner.

What flaws do you think he has? Inconsistency is maybe the only thing but pretty much every college QB is inconsistent.

 

[GATTACA!]

I think you are overrating Watson. About 50% of his passes traveled 5 yards or less in the air. It is very easy to be accurate when all you do is throw short.

Deshaun Watson by Distance – 13 games (with video)

On passes traveling down the field 21yards+, he completed 34%. Look at the breakdown.

This^^

Everyone remember when Watson started the season really poorly? That was because Clemson tried Oto open up the offense and have Watson make reads down the field. He can't do it. That's all he will he asked to do at the next level.

Kizer will be drafted higher than Watson how many vbucks you wanna put on it Koon?

 

[koonja]

This^^

Everyone remember when Watson started the season really poorly? That was because Clemson tried Oto open up the offense and have Watson make reads down the field. He can't do it. That's all he will he asked to do at the next level.

Kizer will be drafted higher than Watson how many vbucks you wanna put on it Koon?

50 Trillion say Watson goes before Kizer.

 

[GATTACA!]

Did you watch the game last night? Not being perfect at something does not make it a flaw. He is capable of making every throw. He has great mobility. He is tough. No off the field issues. Leader. Winner.

What flaws do you think he has? Inconsistency is maybe the only thing but pretty much every college QB is inconsistent.

Throwing down field for starters. He didn't even come close on any of his deep balls last night.

 

[pkt77242]

Did you watch the game last night? Not being perfect at something does not make it a flaw. He is capable of making every throw. He has great mobility. He is tough. No off the field issues. Leader. Winner.

What flaws do you think he has? Inconsistency is maybe the only thing but pretty much every college QB is inconsistent.

i am not sure if he can do pre-snap reads as the changes come from the sideline not from him.

Also he is not good at going through his progressions. The biggest critique that I have seen of him is that he mostly makes one read and then runs if it isn't open. Sometimes he will make a 2nd read but it is rare. That won't fly at the pro level.

ETA: also his downfield passing is rough.

 

[GATTACA!]

Look you can post statistics, but he just torched the best defense in football, does nothing but win, and is a leader. The NFL is actually becoming a league where you throw short and let playmakers make plays. The Cowboys do it, the Patriots do it, pretty much every good team does it. Dak Prescott might win the MVP and he is terrible at throwing down the field.

Winning in college is a worthless metric for predicting NFL success, otherwise Vince Young would have 3 super bowl rings. Watson was essentially playing on an all star team. He did what he needed to do to win in a system that values short to intermediate throws that rack up tons of YAC.

You might as well just say but muh feelings in response to every argument because college wins is pointless, and you want to ignore statistics.

 

[koonja]

Winning in college is a worthless metric for predicting NFL success, otherwise Vince Young would have 3 super bowl rings. Watson was essentially playing on an all star team. He did what he needed to do to win in a system that values short to intermediate throws that rack up tons of YAC.

You might as well just say but muh feelings in response to every argument because college wins is pointless, and you want to ignore statistics.

Not when compared to Alabama who has significantly better talent than Clemson, and FSU who has better talent than Clemson. He's done exceptional against them both the past 2 years.

 

[pkt77242]

5 reasons the Browns would be crazy to draft Deshaun Watson first overall | For The Win

 

[GATTACA!]

5 reasons the Browns would be crazy to draft Deshaun Watson first overall | For The Win

1. Watson has too many flaws as a passer

Inconsistent accuracy. Below-average pocket presence. Questionable decision-making. Those are all phrases you’ll find on Watson’s scouting reports, which is a concern considering those are the foundations of the quarterback position. With the right coaching, Watson could be developed into a star, but there is a risk in taking him with such a high pick, and this Browns office has wisely avoided such risks thus far.

But wait I though he had no obvious flaws?

 

[pkt77242]

But wait I though he had no obvious flaws?

Also from that article

5. Watson isn’t even the best QB prospect in the draft

If I’m taking a quarterback high in this draft, it’s going to be Notre Dame’s DeShone Kizer. Watson is too unpolished. North Carolina’s Mitch Trubisky is inexperienced and inconsistent. Texas Tech’s Patrick Mahomes will have a hard time transitioning to an NFL offense.

Kizer is the best bet out of the group to develop into a Pro Bowl quarterback. He’s shown good presence in the pocket (the most important attribute for a young QB), great arm strength and solid accuracy. As long he checks out in interviews, he’ll end up as the top quarterback taken.

 

[ACamp1900]

I forget who it was but one of these 'draft experts' (yeah I know) was on M&M or DP this morning and said flat out that no QB in this year's draft would get a grade equal to what he gave mid rounders last year like Prescott and others...

 

[GATTACA!]

I forget who it was but one of these 'draft experts' (yeah I know) was on M&M or DP this morning and said flat out that no QB in this year's draft would get a grade equal to what he gave mid rounders last year like Prescott and others...

The same experts that had Prescott ranked as like the 7th best QB lol. Kind of funny them using their own incredibly wrong opinion to try and project this year's class.

 

[ACamp1900]

The same experts that had Prescott ranked as like the 7th best QB lol. Kind of funny them using their own incredibly wrong opinion to try and project this year's class.

I think Prescott proves my point on QBs though... he succeeded this year because he has a great team around him... not because everyone was wrong on his draft grade... he was and is a 3rd to 4th rounder (Not that that is some kind of knock or diss, it's not).

 

[ND NYC]

the irony of having you Cleveland Browns fans debate and lecture us on "what makes a great QB"

 

[ACamp1900]

the irony of having you Cleveland Browns fans debate and lecture us on "what makes a great QB"

Explain.

I fail to see how being a fan of ANY team disqualifies one from having a football IQ... or amplifies it for that matter.....

 

[mgriff]

the irony of having you Cleveland Browns fans debate and lecture us on "what makes a great QB"

Flair up

 

[GATTACA!]

the irony of having you Cleveland Browns fans debate and lecture us on "what makes a great QB"

Yeah cuz me and ACamp have been the ones drafting for the Browns.

 

[gkIrish]

Did you guys watch him shred Bama last night and this year? Idc what scheme your team runs or if you have an all star team, that's all I need to see. Use your eyes. You can find bad scouting reports about Aaron Rodgers if you look for them. Arguing Kizer is the better prospect is pure homerism.

Doesn't mean Kizer won't be the better player, but you don't draft him before Watson.

 

[GATTACA!]

Did you guys watch him shred Bama last night and this year? Idc what scheme your team runs or if you have an all star team, that's all I need to see. Use your eyes. You can find bad scouting reports about Aaron Rodgers if you look for them. Arguing Kizer is the better prospect is pure homerism.

Doesn't mean Kizer won't be the better player, but you don't draft him before Watson.

Too bad we aren't discussing a college football draft, this is the NFL draft and what actually matters is how well these players translate to the next level. Kizer is the better mental and physical prospect contrary to the vaunted Gk eye test.

You know who else shredded Alabama twice? Johnny Manziel.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Watson vs. Kizer

Accuracy = Watson. Kizer had bad accuracy all year.
Running ability (IDC who's faster) = Watson
Arm = Tie?
Attitude = Watson
Size = Kizer
Big Game Balls = Watson

I don't think it's close. Kizer would have had 65 total yards last night, 6 pouts, and lost 2 fumbles. Kizer looks great when he makes a throw, because he has the perfect size. But he then follows up a good throw with missing 2 wide open receivers, throwing an inaccurate ball to the other, or sitting in the pocket for 8 seconds and getting sacked.

Arm=Kizer
Be careful with accuracy. Kizer was not very good this year, but Watson turns the ball over more if memory serves me correct.


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[Sherm Sticky]

Watson vs. Kizer

Accuracy = Watson. Kizer had bad accuracy all year.
Running ability (IDC who's faster) = Watson
Arm = Tie?
Attitude = Watson
Size = Kizer
Big Game Balls = Watson

I don't think it's close. Kizer would have had 65 total yards last night, 6 pouts, and lost 2 fumbles. Kizer looks great when he makes a throw, because he has the perfect size. But he then follows up a good throw with missing 2 wide open receivers, throwing an inaccurate ball to the other, or sitting in the pocket for 8 seconds and getting sacked.

Kizer doesn't have the supporting cast Watson has. Watson is working with 2 5 star WR and neither one of them are named Mike Williams. Add the best WR in this years draft and a second round TE. Kizer did not have near the weapons Watson does.


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[GATTACA!]

Arm=Kizer
Be careful with accuracy. Kizer was not very good this year, but Watson turns the ball over more if memory serves me correct.


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Yes almost double, 17 to Kizer's 9.

 

[pkt77242]

Did you guys watch him shred Bama last night and this year? Idc what scheme your team runs or if you have an all star team, that's all I need to see. Use your eyes. You can find bad scouting reports about Aaron Rodgers if you look for them. Arguing Kizer is the better prospect is pure homerism.

Doesn't mean Kizer won't be the better player, but you don't draft him before Watson.

Nope not homerism but good try. The road is littered with great college QBs that couldn't make the transition to the pros. The best parts of Watson's game (short pass accuracy and running ability) won't cut it at the next level. Watson might become a good QB some day but he has significant holes in his game for the pro level. Watson is the better college QB but the worse pro prospect (well unless Chip Kelly gets another pro job and then he is an ideal fit for that team).

Having a said that all of the top QBs in this draft have issues that need to be addressed. None should be picked in the top 10 but most likely at least 1 and probably all 3 will be.

I think that we can all agree that Trubisky is the worst prospect of the 3.

 

[ACamp1900]

I think that we can all agree that Trubisky is the worst prospect of the 3.

Why? I know nothing of Trubisky other than most experts have him as one of, and often THE, top guys at that position... did anyone here really sit and watch this kid this year?

 

[GATTACA!]

Why? I know nothing of Trubisky other than most experts have him as one of, and often THE, top guys at that position... did anyone here really sit and watch this kid this year?

Let's put it this way he couldn't beat out Marquise Williams for two seasons.

 

[arrowryan]

If I'm the Browns, there is not a chance in hell that I'm taking a quarterback at #1. There is so much that can go wrong for the GM and HC if they draft a quarterback at #1 and he doesn't live up to expectations.

If Hue Jackson wants a head coaching job in 2018, he needs to take Myles Garrett or Jonathan Allen at #1 and a defensive back with his second 1st round pick. Hue Jackson absolutely cannot afford a 3-13 (or worse) season. If that happens, Cleveland will probably be looking for another head coach.

I would look at Brad Kaaya or Patrick Mahomes in the 2nd or 3rd round.

 

[pkt77242]

Why? I know nothing of Trubisky other than most experts have him as one of, and often THE, top guys at that position... did anyone here really sit and watch this kid this year?

My breakdown of Trubisky looks like this:

Pros:
Accurate on short and medium throws
Pretty good athlete who can pick up some first downs with his feet
Great size, good arm strength maybe great arm strength
Didn't turn the ball over a lot (well besides the bowl game).

Cons:
Deep accuracy was hit and miss
Didn't seem to read the defense. Both pre-snap and coverages. Struggled to get to 2nd and 3rd reads
I don't love his mechanics. I don't think that they are very consistent (both with throwing motion and his feet).



*I watched at least 3 complete games of his and parts of a few others. I can't say that I have seen all of his snaps this year. One of those games was the Stanford game, when I thought that he played pretty poorly (2 INTs and 1 Fum)