2016 Presidential Horse Race

2016 Presidential Horse Race


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ACamp1900

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You serious?

How can that notion not be applied to, I don't know, attaching anything your political opponents say about anything to racism, sexism to some other form of hatred... is that not over the top and simply used to rile people up??
 

wizards8507

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How can that notion not be applied to, I don't know, attaching anything your political opponents say about anything to racism, sexism to some other form of hatred... is that not over the top and simply used to rile people up??
Or the police? Obama bad-mouths the police all the time and then acts righteously indignant when BLM turns violent.
 

Veritate Duce Progredi

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I don't think my post said that he was advocating shooting anyone. I said he was using those specific words intentionally to fire up an angry base of support, and that some of those supporters might take his words literally. In other words, while he might not condone shooting someone, he is playing with fire by using rhetoric that is likely to make angry supporters even angrier. Angry people don't always act rationally. And like it or not, Trump will be responsible if one of those supporters chooses to act in a violent manner after being riled up by months of Trump's over-the-top rhetoric. If you don't want the barn to burn down, you should be putting out the fire, not fanning the flames.

What are your thoughts on Obama speeches following black men being killed by law enforcement? Do you think he fanned any flames or put out the fires?

Also x2 what Wiz said regarding radical Islam and Imams.
 

Domina Nostra

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Holy shit, people have abandoned common sense. Did you actually watch the video, or just read the quotes? There was absolutely nothing designed to "fire up" anybody, nor did "anger" have anything to do with it. It was a poorly-placed and inappropriate attempt at humor. Yes, he's an idiot and unfit to be President, but nothing he said was dangerous.


Bahahaha, Trump makes a stupid joke and he'll be to blame if a nutjob turns violent, but the rhetoric of Imams is completely blameless when people are slaughtered in the name of Islam, is that right?

I actually didn't it as humor or a all to violence. I thought it was more just ill-conceived. Basically, it would be as if Hillary Clinton said:

"And I know you all care about civil rights, but when Trump is president he's going to be appointing judges and they aren't going to uphold those rights, and then there will be nothing you can do about it. Well, maybe the Black Lives Matter movement can do something about it."

If you consider BLM violent, racist agitators, then that statement is scary. However, if you consider them a peaceful and effective protest group, it's not.
 

NDinL.A.

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I neg repped you because it seems you're incapable of coming up with your own material. Trump is a clown but coming out and proclaiming he is "unfit" to be president is just regurgitating lines from the White House.

And since I'm not Trump's spokesperson I'll leave the defending of Trump to others on this board.

Wait...you neg-repped him for THAT? C'mon man. Trump being unfit is bordering on becoming stone-cold fact - the dude isn't all there and his ginormous ego and temperament are proving that he is ridiculously unfit to be the POTUS. I've been saying he's mentally unfit for over a year; I didn't need the WH to tell me that. And it's not just the Dems saying it, it's MANY Republicans as well.

Trump people and Republicans supporting him need to get over the whole "the media is out to get him" BS. The media does suck (and yes, FOX is equally biased towards their party as well - them playing the victim all the time is a friggin' joke), but anyone with half a brain doesn't need the media persuading them to see what a mess of a candidate Trump is. He does it to himself.

(And btw, this clown LOVES the media when they support him, and when they write stuff about Hillary, even places like the Washington Post and the NY Times, he is incredibly quick to announce their articles and cite them in his speeches. And then later in those exact same speeches, he calls those same sources liars, cheats, and dirty bastards. And the idiot sees no hypocrisy in it lol.)
 
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Bogtrotter07

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This debate has become as comical as the campaign for the election we face.

Trump can't keep his mouth shut. Period. Anyone who would vote for someone with such an affliction for President of the United States needs to take some time and start with a serious personal inventory.

I mean this isn't about serious inferiority complexes or guilt anymore. This is about (self) destruction.

Anyone who believes any public speaker on a national stage has the right to utter any statement that could be so easily misconstrued, needs some help. Really.

The thing I find most interesting is that whenever I hear a rebroadcast of that speech, it is cut off in the middle. Only originally have I heard his whole statement.

In context Trump went on to say that (Hillary being elected?) would be a horrible day. I put the 'Hillary being elected in because that is the least inflammatory thing that his 'it' could reference.

And that clearly reinforces that as dire as the results of letting Hillary be elected and sworn in as President, and that something extraordinary needs to be done to stop it. Folks, that is as good of an argument as you really need to know he wasn't talking about '2nd Amendment unification of voters.'

Do I really believe Trump was advocating the assassination of his competition? Not really.
  • I don't think Donald Trump's brain is connected to his mouth with half of the statements he makes.
  • I also think there is a conspiracy! To keep Trump in the race, otherwise sound bites from that day wouldn't be broadcast in the best light possible for candidate Trump, and everyone would see him for the pitiful, marginal human being he really is. Why else would all of the media only broadcast the words out of context? Because the context is even more inflammatory, and they couldn't even maintain the controversy if they published the whole statement! After all, what else is there to talk about in this race?
  • The longer I see the candidate Trump, the more I believe that his affliction provides him a comfortable cushion between his imagined reality, and the reality in which we live. This is where he gets the whole, "it's a conspiracy against me," mantra. In his world his thoughts are pure and his words are completely formed, I am sure. So why else would so many attack him for what he says? It has to be a conspiracy. Now I can understand serious conspiracy theorist relating to this, but not everyone on this thread really wears tin-foil hats! C'mon!

The only other thing I would like to say at this point is that as much contempt as I have had for the incomplete policies, moral scruples, and thoughts of past major party candidates, including George W Bush, Sarah Palin, Mitt Romney, and most of the Republican candidates this go-round, I have never called them the kind of names some of you call Hillary Clinton. Granted, she and her husband are professional politicians, but so are the Bushes. Hell that family made a lot of its money doing business with the enemy in the Second World War (Preston.) There are two legal convictions to prove it.

With Hillary, some of this crap that people are making up and trying to prove is as ridiculous of a stretch as the birther arguments (Trump) against Barack Obama! I always thought it was funny that there was such a huge brouhaha about Obama; his mother was a legal US citizen that qualified to give him US citizenship at birth, no mater where he was born!

Even more ridiculous, and smarmy is the plethora of names Hillary Clinton is called. Yes as I said, as professional politicians, I believe her, and Bill's, calling is lower than that of a street prostitute, but it is more legal. And many others, including the entire Bush family and Ronald Reagan have been just as morally uncertain in their careers. So I don't get the reason for name calling. I find it comical at its core. But I also believe that it says more about the name callers than it does about the targets.

And one other thing, there is one or more user that posts on this thread that likes to give out negative reps for others opinions that don't agree with is own. I think it would be pretty cool if the next person that gets negrepped by him lets everyone know in the thread. That way others can negrep him at will. Maybe that will get through . . .
 
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Bogtrotter07

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Or the police? Obama bad-mouths the police all the time and then acts righteously indignant when BLM turns violent.

I would really like you to post examples if you have time. Because I have never really heard him badmouth anyone except OBL, and DT. What he said about Hillary four years ago may not even qualify as badmouthing.
 

EddytoNow

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What are your thoughts on Obama speeches following black men being killed by law enforcement? Do you think he fanned any flames or put out the fires?

Also x2 what Wiz said regarding radical Islam and Imams.

I don't know where this one comes from, but nowhere have I supported Imams that encourage members of their mosque to commit acts of violence. They should be condemned, of course. But that doesn't excuse Trump when he suggests that 2nd amendment people can take care of things if Hillary is elected and appoints a Supreme Court justice that doesn't meet their approval. The Republicans have held up a nomination for the Supreme Court for a long time and will continue to do so in the hope that they will win the election. Their argument is that elections have consequences, and we need to wait for the 2016 election results to determine which president gets to make those nominations going forward. So why is Trump now encouraging his supporters to oppose those nominations with their "2nd amendment rights"? Do elections only have consequences when a Republican wins the presidency? And why is Trump claiming the election is rigged against him when it is still 3-months away?

Trump is in panic mode. He doesn't even think he will win in November, and he is lining up his excuses. Unlike Al Gore who conceded the 2000 election to George W. Bush for the good of the country, Trump will never be able to concede that he lost. Like the little boy who quits in the middle of the game, he will claim he has been cheated.
 

pkt77242

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I'll repeat, i believe a "second amendment solution" is built on not giving your guns up in the event hildabeast somehow gets her way.
I don't believe you can make a very strong argument that he is/was advocating for the shooting of public officials because of their stance on an issue.

Really? I don't get why people say that Clinton wants to take your guns. She doesn't want to ban guns. She does want to mandate background checks for all gun show, personal and online sales. Is she for more regulations on guns, yep, does she want to take your guns, nope.
 
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RDU Irish

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Gary Johnson is looking pretty good - I mean who wouldn't take a stoner over these two idiots?
 

pkt77242

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Or the police? Obama bad-mouths the police all the time and then acts righteously indignant when BLM turns violent.

Can you provide a quote where Obama possibly could have been trying to incite violence against cops?

Not where he said they need to get better, or that their might be some racial profiling, but where he might have actually tried to incite violence against them?
 

pkt77242

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What are your thoughts on Obama speeches following black men being killed by law enforcement? Do you think he fanned any flames or put out the fires?

Also x2 what Wiz said regarding radical Islam and Imams.

Can you provide a quote where Obama might have been trying to incite violence against police (or that could easily be misconstrued that way)?
 

GoIrish41

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This debate has become as comical as the campaign for the election we face.

Trump can't keep his mouth shut. Period. Anyone who would vote for someone with such an affliction for President of the United States needs to take some time and start with a serious personal inventory.

I mean this isn't about serious inferiority complexes or guilt anymore. This is about (self) destruction.

Anyone who believes any public speaker on a national stage has the right to utter any statement that could be so easily misconstrued, needs some help. Really.

The thing I find most interesting is that whenever I hear a rebroadcast of that speech, it is cut off in the middle. Only originally have I heard his whole statement.

In context Trump went on to say that (Hillary being elected?) would be a horrible day. I put the 'Hillary being elected in because that is the least inflammatory thing that his 'it' could reference.

And that clearly reinforces that as dire as the results of letting Hillary be elected and sworn in as President, and that something extraordinary needs to be done to stop it. Folks, that is as good of an argument as you really need to know he wasn't talking about '2nd Amendment unification of voters.'

Do I really believe Trump was advocating the assassination of his competition? Not really.
  • I don't think Donald Trump's brain is connected to his mouth with half of the statements he makes.
  • I also think there is a conspiracy! To keep Trump in the race, otherwise sound bites from that day wouldn't be broadcast in the best light possible for candidate Trump, and everyone would see him for the pitiful, marginal human being he really is. Why else would all of the media only broadcast the words out of context? Because the context is even more inflammatory, and they couldn't even maintain the controversy if they published the whole statement! After all, what else is there to talk about in this race?
  • The longer I see the candidate Trump, the more I believe that his affliction provides him a comfortable cushion between his imagined reality, and the reality in which we live. This is where he gets the whole, "it's a conspiracy against me," mantra. In his world his thoughts are pure and his words are completely formed, I am sure. So why else would so many attack him for what he says? It has to be a conspiracy. Now I can understand serious conspiracy theorist relating to this, but not everyone on this thread really wears tin-foil hats! C'mon!

The only other thing I would like to say at this point is that as much contempt as I have had for the incomplete policies, moral scruples, and thoughts of past major party candidates, including George W Bush, Sarah Palin, Mitt Romney, and most of the Republican candidates this go-round, I have never called them the kind of names some of you call Hillary Clinton. Granted, she and her husband are professional politicians, but so are the Bushes. Hell that family made a lot of its money doing business with the enemy in the Second World War (Preston.) There are two legal convictions to prove it.

With Hillary, some of this crap that people are making up and trying to prove is as ridiculous of a stretch as the birther arguments (Trump) against Barack Obama! I always thought it was funny that there was such a huge brouhaha about Obama; his mother was a legal US citizen that qualified to give him US citizenship at birth, no mater where he was born!

Even more ridiculous, and smarmy is the plethora of names Hillary Clinton is called. Yes as I said, as professional politicians, I believe her, and Bill's, calling is lower than that of a street prostitute, but it is more legal. And many others, including the entire Bush family and Ronald Reagan have been just as morally uncertain in their careers. So I don't get the reason for name calling. I find it comical at its core. But I also believe that it says more about the name callers than it does about the targets.

And one other thing, there is one or more user that posts on this thread that likes to give out negative reps for others opinions that don't agree with is own. I think it would be pretty cool if the next person that gets negrepped by him lets everyone know in the thread. That way others can negrep him at will. Maybe that will get through . . .

^ all of this!
 

Domina Nostra

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Trump can't keep his mouth shut. Period. Anyone who would vote for someone with such an affliction for President of the United States needs to take some time and start with a serious personal inventory.

. . . .

The only other thing I would like to say at this point is that as much contempt as I have had for the incomplete policies, moral scruples, and thoughts of past major party candidates, including George W Bush, Sarah Palin, Mitt Romney, and most of the Republican candidates this go-round, I have never called them the kind of names some of you call Hillary Clinton. Granted, she and her husband are professional politicians, but so are the Bushes. Hell that family made a lot of its money doing business with the enemy in the Second World War (Preston.) There are two legal convictions to prove it.

With Hillary, some of this crap that people are making up and trying to prove is as ridiculous of a stretch as the birther arguments (Trump) against Barack Obama! I always thought it was funny that there was such a huge brouhaha about Obama; his mother was a legal US citizen that qualified to give him US citizenship at birth, no mater where he was born!

Even more ridiculous, and smarmy is the plethora of names Hillary Clinton is called. Yes as I said, as professional politicians, I believe her, and Bill's, calling is lower than that of a street prostitute, but it is more legal. And many others, including the entire Bush family and Ronald Reagan have been just as morally uncertain in their careers. So I don't get the reason for name calling. I find it comical at its core. But I also believe that it says more about the name callers than it does about the targets.

I agree with most of what you are saying. However, I do think it's hard for some Democrats to understand that Hilary and Bill really are tied in with money making schemes, scandals, ethical breaches, and straight-faced lying in a manner that is not common to all politicians. The sheer number hits the "where there is smoke there is fire" level.

Nixon stood out as paranoid, dishonest, and dangerous among Republicans. While democrats said lots of awful stuff about Reagan and HW Bush, and both guys did their dirty deeds Nixon was in a different category. However, had it not been for Watergate, people would still be arguing that his critics were just political hacks.

Many may conclude that Donald is worse or far worse in some manners. But Hilary and Bill are not just two more Democrats that Republicans hate. That would be Joe Biden or Al Gore. They have actual basis for distrusting them beyond the normal political shenanigans (albeit probably often exaggerated).


As for the birther stuff, whether or not he was born in the U.S. was a matter of fact. He was, so there was no issue. However, it is not necessarily simply a matter of having an American mother. That's why I thought it was uber-hypocritical for Ted Cruz to run, or at least for birthers to support Cruz. Cruz is all about applying the Constitution as written, except for in that case.
 
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potownhero

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Anyone who believes any public speaker on a national stage has the right to utter any statement that could be so easily misconstrued, needs some help. Really.

I didn't hear you piping up in 2012 saying that Obama needed help.

Per Obama: "If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun, because from what I understand, folks in Philly like a good brawl."

Did I miss the post where you commented on Obama's need of help?
 

Irish#1

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Haven't seen this one. Got a link?

I've only seen it on TV, but surprised you haven't seen it. It's been running quite a bit.

This isn't it, but is similar.
<iframe width="720" height="414" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/aZ891SoIsdQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I don't think my post said that he was advocating shooting anyone. I said he was using those specific words intentionally to fire up an angry base of support, and that some of those supporters might take his words literally. In other words, while he might not condone shooting someone, he is playing with fire by using rhetoric that is likely to make angry supporters even angrier. Angry people don't always act rationally. And like it or not, Trump will be responsible if one of those supporters chooses to act in a violent manner after being riled up by months of Trump's over-the-top rhetoric. If you don't want the barn to burn down, you should be putting out the fire, not fanning the flames.

Six of one, half a dozen of another.
 
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wizards8507

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I agree with him, but I can't think of anyone the Republican electorate would listen to less than Joe Scarborough.

National Review is also fighting the good fight, but the Trumpkins aren't going to listen to Jonah or Ben or Kevin, either.

Donald Trump’s Conservatism as Second Language | National Review

Republicans Support Trump’s Behavior Until It Endangers Their Reelection | National Review

Donald Trump & Social Security: Lies, Lies, Lies | National Review
 
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Emcee77

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The only other thing I would like to say at this point is that as much contempt as I have had for the incomplete policies, moral scruples, and thoughts of past major party candidates, including George W Bush, Sarah Palin, Mitt Romney, and most of the Republican candidates this go-round, I have never called them the kind of names some of you call Hillary Clinton. Granted, she and her husband are professional politicians, but so are the Bushes. Hell that family made a lot of its money doing business with the enemy in the Second World War (Preston.) There are two legal convictions to prove it.

With Hillary, some of this crap that people are making up and trying to prove is as ridiculous of a stretch as the birther arguments (Trump) against Barack Obama! I always thought it was funny that there was such a huge brouhaha about Obama; his mother was a legal US citizen that qualified to give him US citizenship at birth, no mater where he was born!

Even more ridiculous, and smarmy is the plethora of names Hillary Clinton is called. Yes as I said, as professional politicians, I believe her, and Bill's, calling is lower than that of a street prostitute, but it is more legal. And many others, including the entire Bush family and Ronald Reagan have been just as morally uncertain in their careers. So I don't get the reason for name calling. I find it comical at its core. But I also believe that it says more about the name callers than it does about the targets.

And one other thing, there is one or more user that posts on this thread that likes to give out negative reps for others opinions that don't agree with is own. I think it would be pretty cool if the next person that gets negrepped by him lets everyone know in the thread. That way others can negrep him at will. Maybe that will get through . . .

Yeah, I agree with the spirit of this, if not every detail. I just don't understand the level of hate that people have for Hillary Clinton. I think I understand why she is criticized, and many of the criticisms people make are perfectly valid, but I just don't see where and how they add up to hate. Disapproval, distrust, disdain ... sure, all those things strike me as reasonable reactions. But the horrible names, the talk about shooting her and locking her up, the vilification ... I just don't see it.

For example, Hillary might be "corrupt" in some manner of speaking, i.e., she might have accepted the assistance or support of people with such interests and of such a degree that you might question her motives, but ... Rod Blagojevich was just re-sentenced here in Illinois. Now that's corruption it makes sense to hate a person for.
 

johnnycando

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I'm gonna help "Make America Great Again."

And so are most voters in this room apparently, by the numbers.

Liberals, as usual, are the most vocal on here.

Killary is worthless.
 

pkt77242

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I'm gonna help "Make America Great Again."

And so are most voters in this room apparently, by the numbers.

Liberals, as usual, are the most vocal on here.

Killary is worthless.

So what part of Trump's platform is going to "Make America Great Again"?
 

Polish Leppy 22

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Wait...you neg-repped him for THAT? C'mon man. Trump being unfit is bordering on becoming stone-cold fact - the dude isn't all there and his ginormous ego and temperament are proving that he is ridiculously unfit to be the POTUS. I've been saying he's mentally unfit for over a year; I didn't need the WH to tell me that. And it's not just the Dems saying it, it's MANY Republicans as well.

Trump people and Republicans supporting him need to get over the whole "the media is out to get him" BS. The media does suck (and yes, FOX is equally biased towards their party as well - them playing the victim all the time is a friggin' joke), but anyone with half a brain doesn't need the media persuading them to see what a mess of a candidate Trump is. He does it to himself.

(And btw, this clown LOVES the media when they support him, and when they write stuff about Hillary, even places like the Washington Post and the NY Times, he is incredibly quick to announce their articles and cite them in his speeches. And then later in those exact same speeches, he calls those same sources liars, cheats, and dirty bastards. And the idiot sees no hypocrisy in it lol.)

Trump being unfit for president is 100% opinion, an opinion I respect. I neg repped him not for the opinion, but for the fact that he just took a line from the White House/ DNC and proclaimed it loud and proud. He could've at least quoted Obama or Hillary when he said it.

I would argue the same would be deserved for a Trump supporter who came on this forum and proclaimed, "Look, we're gonna build a wall and it's gonna be a great wall."
 

tussin

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Trump being unfit for president is 100% opinion, an opinion I respect. I neg repped him not for the opinion, but for the fact that he just took a line from the White House/ DNC and proclaimed it loud and proud. He could've at least quoted Obama or Hillary when he said it.

I would argue the same would be deserved for a Trump supporter who came on this forum and proclaimed, "Look, we're gonna build a wall and it's gonna be a great wall."

That's not "a line" from the DNC -- everyone from Mitt Romney to Lindsay Graham to Mark Cuban is also saying that.

...and they are right. He is unfit - the guy is nothing more than a charismatic reality TV star. Just like you're unfit to be an open heart surgeon, Trump is unfit to be commander in chief. Time to come to terms that the GOP royally screwed this one up.
 

Polish Leppy 22

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It's actually pretty accurate statement considering you are constantly neg repping people that disagree with you. Even the random "he didn't quote" opinion is not only incorrect, but a dumb reason to neg someone. You have been doing it forever and it's bs.

There you go again...thinking IE is Skull and Bones and you're the president lol. I enjoy the forum and the back and forth debates. I didn't neg rep him for the opinion.
 

IrishJayhawk

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That's not "a line" from the DNC -- everyone from Mitt Romney to Lindsay Graham to Mark Cuban is also saying that.

...and they are right. He is unfit - the guy is nothing more than a charismatic reality TV star. Just like you're unfit to be an open heart surgeon, Trump is unfit to be commander in chief. Time to come to terms that the GOP royally screwed this one up.

And he'd neg rep Romney for it, too.
 
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