2016 Presidential Horse Race

2016 Presidential Horse Race


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wizards8507

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This Kaine guy was a Catholic missionary and he's running on a radical pro-abortion platform? He should be excommunicated.

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GATTACA!

It's about to get gross
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This is my favorite day.

73b0f34eec55bcdd418a0d3de4ca0e88.jpg

This is gold. Did you find this one?

If so I love you. No homo.
 

IrishJayhawk

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This Kaine guy was a Catholic missionary and he's running on a radical pro-abortion platform? He should be excommunicated.

Sent from my Galaxy Note4 using Tapatalk.

The Pro-Choice people actually don't much care for him. He has said that he would never recommend an abortion but that he doesn't think the government should be able to make laws about it. ETA: It's pretty much in line with Biden's views.

I'm assuming you feel the same way about any Catholic who is in favor of the death penalty?
 

Bishop2b5

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The Pro-Choice people actually don't much care for him. He has said that he would never recommend an abortion but that he doesn't think the government should be able to make laws about it. ETA: It's pretty much in line with Biden's views.

I'm assuming you feel the same way about any Catholic who is in favor of the death penalty?

The Catholic Church has traditionally supported the death penalty. Like any issue, there are some within the church that disagree with that position, but the official view is that it's lawful and justified in certain instances.

That's certainly not the case with abortion. The Catholic Church has long condemned it in virtually all situations. Surely you're not equating the execution of a convicted murderer or rapist with the killing of an innocent unborn child.
 

pkt77242

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The Catholic Church has traditionally supported the death penalty. Like any issue, there are some within the church that disagree with that position, but the official view is that it's lawful and justified in certain instances.

That's certainly not the case with abortion. The Catholic Church has long condemned it in virtually all situations. Surely you're not equating the execution of a convicted murderer or rapist with the killing of an innocent unborn child.

I am pretty sure that the Catholic Church is against the death penalty.

The Church's Anti-Death Penalty Position

The church use to believe that in certain circumstances it was ok, but in this day and age, the view is that it is no longer needed.

The new evangelization calls for followers of Christ who are unconditionally pro-life: who will proclaim, celebrate and serve the Gospel of life in every situation. A sign of hope is the increasing recognition that the dignity of human life must never be taken away, even in the case of someone who has done great evil. . . . I renew the appeal I made . . . for a consensus to end the death penalty, which is both cruel and unnecessary.
—Pope John Paul II Papal Mass, St. Louis, Missouri, January 27, 1999

Twenty-five years ago, our Conference of bishops first called for an end to the death penalty. We renew this call to seize a new moment and new momentum. This is a time to teach clearly, encourage reflection, and call for common action in the Catholic community to bring about an end to the use of the death penalty in our land.
—USCCB, A Culture of Life and the Penalty of Death

No matter how heinous the crime, if society can protect itself without ending a human life, it should do so.
—USCCB, A Culture of Life and the Penalty of Death

While the Old Testament includes some passages about taking the life of one who kills, the Old Testament and the teaching of Christ in the New Testament call us to protect life, practice mercy, and reject vengeance.
—USCCB, A Culture of Life and the Penalty of Death

When Cain killed Abel, God did not end Cain's life. Instead, he sent Cain into exile, not only sparing his life but protecting it by putting a mark on Cain, lest anyone should kill him at sight (Gn 4:15).
—USCCB, A Culture of Life and the Penalty of Death

When the state, in our names and with our taxes, ends a human life despite having non-lethal alternatives, it suggests that society can overcome violence with violence. The use of the death penalty ought to be abandoned not only for what it does to those who are executed, but for what it does to all of society.
—USCCB, A Culture of Life and the Penalty of Death

Our faith and Catholic teaching offer a moral framework for choices about the use of the death penalty. A principled Catholic response to crime and punishment is rooted in our convictions about good and evil, sin and redemption, justice and mercy. It is also shaped by our commitment to the life and dignity of every human person, and the common good. The opening chapters of the Book of Genesis teach that every life is a precious gift from God (see Genesis 2:7, 21-23). This gift must be respected and protected.
—USCCB, A Culture of Life and the Penalty of Death

Each of us is called to respect the life and dignity of every human being. Even when people deny the dignity of others, we must still recognize that their dignity is a gift from God and is not something that is earned or lost through their behavior. Respect for life applies to all, even the perpetrators of terrible acts. Punishment should be consistent with the demands of justice and with respect for human life and dignity.
—USCCB, A Culture of Life and the Penalty of Death

In Catholic teaching the state has the recourse to impose the death penalty upon criminals convicted of heinous crimes if this ultimate sanction is the only available means to protect society from a grave threat to human life. However, this right should not be exercised when other ways are available to punish criminals and to protect society that are more respectful of human life.
—USCCB, A Culture of Life and the Penalty of Death

We also share the hurt and horror, the loss and heartache that are the result of unspeakable acts of violence. We have presided at the funerals of police officers killed in the line of duty and have consoled parents who have lost children. We have heard the anger and despair of victims families who feel ignored by the criminal justice system, society as a whole, and, at times, even the Church. Our family of faith must care for sisters and brothers who have been wounded by violence and support them in their loss and search for justice. They deserve our compassion, solidarity, and support spiritual, pastoral, and personal. However, standing with families of victims does not compel us to support the use of the death penalty.
—USCCB, A Culture of Life and the Penalty of Death

For many left behind, a death sentence offers the illusion of closure and vindication. No act, even an execution, can bring back a loved one or heal terrible wounds. The pain and loss of one death cannot be wiped away by another death.
—USCCB, A Culture of Life and the Penalty of Death

The death penalty arouses deep passions and strong convictions. People of goodwill disagree. In these reflections, we offer neither judgment nor condemnation but instead encourage engagement and dialogue, which we hope may lead to re-examination and conversion. Our goal is not just to proclaim a position, but to persuade Catholics and others to join us in working to end the use of the death penalty. We seek to help build a culture of life in which our nation will no longer try to teach that killing is wrong by killing those who kill.
—USCCB, A Culture of Life and the Penalty of Death

[Punishment] ought not go to the extreme of executing the offender except in cases of absolute necessity: in other words, when it would not be possible otherwise to defend society. Today however, as a result of steady improvements in the organization of the penal system, such cases are very rare, if not practically non-existent. John Paul II, The Gospel of Life, [Punishment] ought not go to the extreme of executing the offender except in cases of absolute necessity: in other words, when it would not be possible otherwise to defend society. Today however, as a result of steady improvements in the organization of the penal system, such cases are very rare, if not practically non-existent.
—John Paul II, The Gospel of Life (Evangelium Vitae), 1995

If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect peoples safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and more in conformity with the dignity of the human person.
—The Catechism of the Catholic Church

Others question whether our criminal justice system can indeed protect society. They point to examples of the release of offenders who subsequently commit horrible acts of violence. But in the face of a growing culture of death, every effort should be made to promote a culture of life. Therefore, we believe that the primary response to these situations should not be the use of the death penalty but should instead be the promotion of needed reform of the criminal justice system so that society is more effectively protected.
—USCCB, A Culture of Life and the Penalty of Death

Public policies that treat some lives as unworthy of protection, or that are perceived as vengeful, fracture the moral conviction that human life is sacred.
—USCCB, A Culture of Life and the Penalty of Death

Defending all human life should unite us as people of life and for life.
—USCCB, A Culture of Life and the Penalty of Death

We hope and pray that this campaign will help bring an end to the use of the death penalty. This end may come through an act of Congress or a definitive court decision; more likely the death penalty will be abandoned and wither away through the everyday choices of prosecutors and legislators, judges and jurors, and ordinary citizens who make a commitment to respect human life in every situation. We look forward to the day when our society chooses not to answer violence with violence.
—USCCB, A Culture of Life and the Penalty of Death

For the Catholic community, this issue -- like all life issues -- is more than public policy. It involves our faith and the central principle that human life is sacred. Church teaching on the life and dignity of every human person should guide all our decisions about life, including the use of the death penalty. We are called to reflect on what the Lords command, You shall not kill (Ex 20:13) means for us today.
—USCCB, A Culture of Life and the Penalty of Death

In his encyclical The Gospel of Life, Pope John Paul II told us that we have an inescapable responsibility of choosing to be unconditionally pro-life.18 This Catholic campaign brings us together for common action to end the use of the death penalty, to reject a culture of death, and to build a culture of life. It poses an old and fundamental choice: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. Choose life, then, that you and your descendants may live. (Dt 30:19)
—USCCB, A Culture of Life and the Penalty of Death
 
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IrishJayhawk

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The Catholic Church has traditionally supported the death penalty. Like any issue, there are some within the church that disagree with that position, but the official view is that it's lawful and justified in certain instances.

That's certainly not the case with abortion. The Catholic Church has long condemned it in virtually all situations. Surely you're not equating the execution of a convicted murderer or rapist with the killing of an innocent unborn child.

From the Catechism (emphasis mine):
Assuming that the guilty party's identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.

If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people's safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.

Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity "are very rare, if not practically nonexistent."68
 

NDinL.A.

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Calling out a racist and pointing out that he has no substance is hardly whining and complaining. Trump is 70 years old. There's nothing in those 70 years to suggest that he cares about the poor or the unemployed. He is defined by his actions and his own words over those 70 years.

Shhhhhhhh....don't ruin his narrative. He foolishly and ignorantly keeps declaring those incidents are why I hate Trump, when it is soooooooooo much more. I mentioned those stories a long time ago, but in typical Trump-bot fashion, he can't let that go and assumes THAT is why I can't stand that fraud. Like the rest of the Bots, he ignores all of the other crap that comes with Trump (which I've outlined God knows how many times) and assumes I don't like him simply because Trump is a POS bigot. Not true. The guy is the biggest fraud ever to run for POTUS. Do a deep dive into him and you'll see what I mean.

And moose, LOL at you saying nothing proves he's a racist. Other than his own words and actions, you are right. Check out his real estate practices in the 70's and 80's if you don't believe me. Or you can listen to the words of a true principled conservative, Paul Ryan.

But dude, his racism is just the tip of the iceberg. I disagree with almost everything about that POS. He offends me as an American and as a human being. I know you are a really sensitive guy that obviously can't handle passionate posts, so go ahead and put me on ignore, bc I'm just getting started lol.
 

pkt77242

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http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/24/opinion/sunday/is-donald-trump-a-racist.html?_r=0

HAS the party of Lincoln just nominated a racist to be president? We shouldn’t toss around such accusations lightly, so I’ve looked back over more than 40 years of Donald Trump’s career to see what the record says.

One early red flag arose in 1973, when President Richard Nixon’s Justice Department — not exactly the radicals of the day — sued Trump and his father, Fred Trump, for systematically discriminating against blacks in housing rentals.

I’ve waded through 1,021 pages of documents from that legal battle, and they are devastating. Donald Trump was then president of the family real estate firm, and the government amassed overwhelming evidence that the company had a policy of discriminating against blacks, including those serving in the military.

To prove the discrimination, blacks were repeatedly dispatched as testers to Trump apartment buildings to inquire about vacancies, and white testers were sent soon after. Repeatedly, the black person was told that nothing was available, while the white tester was shown apartments for immediate rental.

A former building superintendent working for the Trumps explained that he was told to code any application by a black person with the letter C, for colored, apparently so the office would know to reject it. A Trump rental agent said the Trumps wanted to rent only to “Jews and executives,” and discouraged renting to blacks.

Donald Trump furiously fought the civil rights suit in the courts and the media, but the Trumps eventually settled on terms that were widely regarded as a victory for the government. Three years later, the government sued the Trumps again, for continuing to discriminate.

In fairness, those suits date from long ago, and the discriminatory policies were probably put in place not by Donald Trump but by his father. Fred Trump appears to have been arrested at a Ku Klux Klan rally in 1927; Woody Guthrie, who lived in a Trump property in the 1950s, lambasted Fred Trump in recently discovered papers for stirring racial hatred.

Yet even if Donald Trump inherited his firm’s discriminatory policies, he allied himself decisively in the 1970s housing battle against the civil rights movement.


Another revealing moment came in 1989, when New York City was convulsed by the “Central Park jogger” case, a rape and beating of a young white woman. Five black and Latino teenagers were arrested.

Trump stepped in, denounced Mayor Ed Koch’s call for peace and bought full-page newspaper ads calling for the death penalty. The five teenagers spent years in prison before being exonerated. In retrospect, they suffered a modern version of a lynching, and Trump played a part in whipping up the crowds.

As Trump moved into casinos, discrimination followed. In the 1980s, according to a former Trump casino worker, Kip Brown, who was quoted by The New Yorker: “When Donald and Ivana came to the casino, the bosses would order all the black people off the floor. … They put us all in the back.”

In 1991, a book by John O’Donnell, who had been president of the Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino in Atlantic City, quoted Trump as criticizing a black accountant and saying: “Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day. … I think that the guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not anything they can control.” O’Donnell wrote that for months afterward, Trump pressed him to fire the black accountant, until the man resigned of his own accord.

Trump eventually denied making those comments. But in 1997 in a Playboy interview, he conceded “the stuff O’Donnell wrote about me is probably true.”

The recent record may be more familiar: Trump’s suggestions that President Obama was born in Kenya; his insinuations that Obama was admitted to Ivy League schools only because of affirmative action; his denunciations of Mexican immigrants as, “in many cases, criminals, drug dealers, rapists”; his calls for a temporary ban on Muslims entering the United States; his dismissal of an American-born judge of Mexican ancestry as a Mexican who cannot fairly hear his case; his reluctance to distance himself from the Ku Klux Klan in a television interview; his retweet of a graphic suggesting that 81 percent of white murder victims are killed by blacks (the actual figure is about 15 percent); and so on.

Trump has also retweeted messages from white supremacists or Nazi sympathizers, including two from an account called @WhiteGenocideTM with a photo of the American Nazi Party’s founder.

Trump repeatedly and vehemently denies any racism, and he has deleted some offensive tweets. The Daily Stormer, a neo-Nazi racist website that has endorsed Trump, sees that as going “full-wink-wink-wink.”

My view is that “racist” can be a loaded word, a conversation stopper more than a clarifier, and that we should be careful not to use it simply as an epithet. Moreover, Muslims and Latinos can be of any race, so some of those statements technically reflect not so much racism as bigotry. It’s also true that with any single statement, it is possible that Trump misspoke or was misconstrued.

And yet.

Here we have a man who for more than four decades has been repeatedly associated with racial discrimination or bigoted comments about minorities, some of them made on television for all to see. While any one episode may be ambiguous, what emerges over more than four decades is a narrative arc, a consistent pattern — and I don’t see what else to call it but racism.

You don't have to be a fan of the NYT but at least read the article and look at the incidents and then judge it.
 
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ACamp1900

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Unrelated but I figure LAX will see it here:

Clean up your PMs dude... You're full.
 
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GATTACA!

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Shhhhhhhh....don't ruin his narrative. He foolishly and ignorantly keeps declaring those incidents are why I hate Trump, when it is soooooooooo much more. I mentioned those stories a long time ago, but in typical Trump-bot fashion, he can't let that go and assumes THAT is why I can't stand that fraud. Like the rest of the Bots, he ignores all of the other crap that comes with Trump (which I've outlined God knows how many times) and assumes I don't like him simply because Trump is a POS bigot. Not true. The guy is the biggest fraud ever to run for POTUS. Do a deep dive into him and you'll see what I mean.

And moose, LOL at you saying nothing proves he's a racist. Other than his own words and actions, you are right. Check out his real estate practices in the 70's and 80's if you don't believe me. Or you can listen to the words of a true principled conservative, Paul Ryan.

But dude, his racism is just the tip of the iceberg. I disagree with almost everything about that POS. He offends me as an American and as a human being. I know you are a really sensitive guy that obviously can't handle passionate posts, so go ahead and put me on ignore, bc I'm just getting started lol.

You couldn't make it sound like this is more personal if you tried. If you really want to have a substantive debate on why you dislike Trump then you really should drop the crazy rhetoric. Calling people sheep, ignorant, trump-bot, ect, ect, doesn't make your argument more convincing. It makes you sound like an extremely biased person, and guilty of some of the same things your criticize Trump about.
 
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connor_in

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kmoose

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Shhhhhhhh....don't ruin his narrative. He foolishly and ignorantly keeps declaring those incidents are why I hate Trump, when it is soooooooooo much more. I mentioned those stories a long time ago, but in typical Trump-bot fashion, he can't let that go and assumes THAT is why I can't stand that fraud. Like the rest of the Bots, he ignores all of the other crap that comes with Trump (which I've outlined God knows how many times) and assumes I don't like him simply because Trump is a POS bigot. Not true. The guy is the biggest fraud ever to run for POTUS. Do a deep dive into him and you'll see what I mean.

And moose, LOL at you saying nothing proves he's a racist. Other than his own words and actions, you are right. Check out his real estate practices in the 70's and 80's if you don't believe me. Or you can listen to the words of a true principled conservative, Paul Ryan.

But dude, his racism is just the tip of the iceberg. I disagree with almost everything about that POS. He offends me as an American and as a human being. I know you are a really sensitive guy that obviously can't handle passionate posts, so go ahead and put me on ignore, bc I'm just getting started lol.

It's not MY narrative. YOU were the one who challenged someone to expound upon Trump's positions. YOU were the one who said no one would have an answer. I gave you answers. You didn't like them, so you rebutted them. I then counter-pointed your rebuttal. I like a lot of Trump's positions....... strong military; less taxes for the poor and middle class while also simplifying the tax code; put Americans first when negotiating deals with other countries on trade, mutual defense, aid, etc.; expect that people will not accustom themselves to living on government handouts(if you need them to get out of a bad situation, then you should get them. But you shouldn't have 3rd and 4th generations of recipients, passing the "tricks" down to each other). But policies are only part of choosing a President. You don't have to be a polished statesman to get my vote; but I do have to have reason to believe that you will learn on the job and become one. I don't have that kind of faith in the guy. He offends you and that's fine. But just because he offends you, that doesn't mean that you get to accuse the guy of things that just aren't true, or act like he has NO plans whatsoever.
 

pkt77242

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First off, I hate Trump, but I hate HRC more. That said, since the article uses 1970's and 1980's for Trump, does that mean people get to use 1970's and 1980's HRC views to make final judgements on her too?

They use the 70's and 80's to show the pattern. Things such as his comments about Judge Curiel, which even Paul Ryan said were racist, are what shows the present day thoughts of Trump.
 

phgreek

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She won't speak, but they have not asked her to resign. JOKE!

One of Bernie's supporter involved in the Nevada caucus/convention they disrupted intimated they have bigger plans than that at the DNC convention during an interview on FOX.

maybe they could have a guest appearance from James Comey in her spot...where he could condemn her behavior, but excuse it as unintentional.
 
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