2016 Fall Camp Thread

[woolybug25]

Heck, let's run a double QB set, and have both QB's lined up in the backfield and direct snap to either one. we could run, pass or option out of that formation.

CRAZINESS

I've been saying this for over a year. It would be dope.

 

[gkIrish]

Heck, let's run a double QB set, and have both QB's lined up in the backfield and direct snap to either one. we could run, pass or option out of that formation.

CRAZINESS

I've been saying this for over a year. It would be dope.

Why run a gimmick offense with all the talent we have, especially on the O-Line? I think it has gotten to the point where people want to find a way for both QBs to play just so one of them doesn't get their feelings hurt. Personally, I just want to win football games with whoever wins the job.

 

[woolybug25]

Why run a gimmick offense with all the talent we have, especially on the O-Line? I think it has gotten to the point where people want to find a way for both QBs to play just so one of them doesn't get their feelings hurt. Personally, I just want to win football games with whoever wins the job.

I don't think either of us is calling for us to run it full time. But it would be deadly in 2 min drives and anytime our offense is sputtering. The staff could put new wrinkles in it each week and we would run as needed. It would be pretty farqing deadly.

 

[gkIrish]

I don't think either of us is calling for us to run it full time. But it would be deadly in 2 min drives and anytime our offense is sputtering. The staff could put new wrinkles in it each week and we would run as needed. It would be pretty farqing deadly.

I think it would have high potential for disaster. Just asking for a QB to get knocked on his ass and break something.

 

[woolybug25]

I think it would have high potential for disaster. Just asking for a QB to get knocked on his ass and break something.

Why would this formation give them more chance of getting hit then the running option game that everyone calls for Malik to run? Furthermore, if we have two badass QB's, why in the hell would we care?

It's materially no different than running a wildcat or pistol formation. Just a different look that gives the opposing team a difficult wrinkle to gameplan for. I think the potential for disaster is a bit much.

 

[ulukinatme]

People keep quoting "If you have two QBs, you have no QB." Today Sanford did a video describing the QB situation and said that is simply not true. We have two very talented QBs with similar skill sets, but each has their own strengths. That doesn't necessarily mean they have glaring weaknesses. That adage is used when you have two middling QBs that can't keep from screwing enough to win the job. We have 2 (And probably more, if you count Wimbush's potential) very good QBs. I'm willing to side with Sanford on this debate. Furthermore, Urban Meyer proved you can win a championship using a 2 QB system.

I'm guessing Kelly and company will still name a starter, but we'll likely see both QBs this season. They're both too good to keep off the field. Lets quit using the quote though, because if Meyer and Sanford can call it bullshit, that's a pretty good endorsement in my book.

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http://watchnd.tv/#!/videos/czOHY5NTE6ULPgQ3iJgyoHayZgc0cKpT

 

[phgreek]

If you play both, then you run both otherwise the defense is looking for it. If you lose a QB then whoever is left backs off running very much.



MZ may be better at it but that's not the point. DK is the better passer but that doesn't mean you don't let MZ throw the ball

Both at the same time...It is deadly in the red zone...Defenses usually respond by going straight man. Since you'd have a lefty and a righty...rollouts are fluid and natural on either side. Both big strong guys...both fast...both can run it...both can throw it...both can run option...most defenses don't have enough athletes to deal with it...

It would be fun to watch...

 

[woolybug25]

Both at the same time...It is deadly in the red zone...Defenses usually respond by going straight man. Since you'd have a lefty and a righty...rollouts are fluid and natural on either side. Both big strong guys...both fast...both can run it...both can throw it...both can run option...most defenses don't have enough athletes to deal with it...

It would be fun to watch...

No kidding. This is where them being opposite hand throwers make it even cooler. They could both be calling audibles and the line would be motioning, but the defense has no idea who is actually signalling or taking the snap. Then we can run, option run, option pass, quick out or attack a secondary player deep while he is trying to figure out what the Fuq is going on. It would be so cool.

 

[ulukinatme]

Is there any evidence of this? Kizer has done fine with nearly all aspects of the running game. There's nothing Zaire can do that he can't do better

That's simply not true, otherwise Kizer would already be the starter. Zaire IS better at the option, but I wouldn't say he's far superior. Zaire has been the most consistent in reading the edge and knowing what to do with the ball. Kizer is easily the 2nd best QB to run the option in the Kelly era, and I wouldn't say it's close for #3. Golson and Hendrix both struggled greatly with reading the edge and deciding to keep it or hand it off. Tommy was Tommy, 'nuff said. I don't recall Crist really running the option much, but if he had performed it well I would have noticed as I've watched the others.

 

[gkIrish]

Why would this formation give them more chance of getting hit then the running option game that everyone calls for Malik to run? Furthermore, if we have two badass QB's, why in the hell would we care?

It's materially no different than running a wildcat or pistol formation. Just a different look that gives the opposing team a difficult wrinkle to gameplan for. I think the potential for disaster is a bit much.

Well first of all I don't want Malik to start and I certainly don't want an option running offense.

Second, whatever advantage you gain by having two potential throwers is severely mitigated by the loss of a RB or WR.

I'm against trick plays (when you are the superior team) as a general rule though and I just view this as a glorified trick play. Just like the defense being too complicated has hurt us the last two years, this could have a similar effect on the offense.

 

[koonja]

That's simply not true, otherwise Kizer would already be the starter. Zaire IS better at the option, but I wouldn't say he's far superior. Zaire has been the most consistent in reading the edge and knowing what to do with the ball. Kizer is easily the 2nd best QB to run the option in the Kelly era, and I wouldn't say it's close for #3. Golson and Hendrix both struggled greatly with reading the edge and deciding to keep it or hand it off. Tommy was Tommy, 'nuff said. I don't recall Crist really running the option much, but if he had performed it well I would have noticed as I've watched the others.

Unless you count Wimbush, who has been seen taking option snaps as well this fall.

 

[condoms SUCk]

Why would this formation give them more chance of getting hit then the running option game that everyone calls for Malik to run? Furthermore, if we have two badass QB's, why in the hell would we care?

It's materially no different than running a wildcat or pistol formation. Just a different look that gives the opposing team a difficult wrinkle to gameplan for. I think the potential for disaster is a bit much.

BINGO!

This would be something you would trow in there as a wrinkle in our offense, if nothing more just to put pressure on opposing D's to have to spend time on game planning for it.

Essentially, kill them with paper work overload type of mentality.

 

[ulukinatme]

Unless you count Wimbush, who has been seen taking option snaps as well this fall.

Given Wimbush's sample size is even lower than Zaire's when it comes to game situations, and he only saw time against UMass, I wasn't going to include him. Given that I think his big run did come off an option (If memory serves anyway), I probably would put him at #3 already just because Golson and Hendrix struggled so much when they tried to run it.

 

[NDohio]

People keep quoting "If you have two QBs, you have no QB." Today Sanford did a video describing the QB situation and said that is simply not true. We have two very talented QBs with similar skill sets, but each has their own strengths. That doesn't necessarily mean they have glaring weaknesses. That adage is used when you have two middling QBs that can't keep from screwing enough to win the job. We have 2 (And probably more, if you count Wimbush's potential) very good QBs. I'm willing to side with Sanford on this debate. Furthermore, Urban Meyer proved you can win a championship using a 2 QB system.

I'm guessing Kelly and company will still name a starter, but we'll likely see both QBs this season. They're both too good to keep off the field. Lets quit using the quote though, because if Meyer and Sanford can call it bullshit, that's a pretty good endorsement in my book.

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I agree with everything you are saying here, except the bold. It wasn't a two QB system Urban used. JT Barrett was the full time starter until he got hurt and then Jones came in as a super sub and led them to the title. Jones didn't get much playing time at all until JT was injured.

 

[condoms SUCk]

No kidding. This is where them being opposite hand throwers make it even cooler. They could both be calling audibles and the line would be motioning, but the defense has no idea who is actually signalling or taking the snap. Then we can run, option run, option pass, quick out or attack a secondary player deep while he is trying to figure out what the Fuq is going on. It would be so cool.

OMG........ it just moved.

 

[longliveautrydenson]

I agree with everything you are saying here, except the bold. It wasn't a two QB system Urban used. JT Barrett was the full time starter until he got hurt and then Jones came in as a super sub and led them to the title. Jones didn't get much playing time at all until JT was injured.

Florida not OSU.

 

[BobbyMac]

I've been saying this for over a year. It would be dope.

Why run a gimmick offense with all the talent we have, especially on the O-Line? I think it has gotten to the point where people want to find a way for both QBs to play just so one of them doesn't get their feelings hurt. Personally, I just want to win football games with whoever wins the job.

I don't think either of us is calling for us to run it full time. But it would be deadly in 2 min drives and anytime our offense is sputtering. The staff could put new wrinkles in it each week and we would run as needed. It would be pretty farqing deadly.

If we live long enough, we'll see it. It's the future of football.

Someone in the future with ND's "problem" will pull it off. It just takes the right backfield, a program in a state of mediocrity that has nothing to lose and a mad genius HC who's not afaid to tell the media and his AD to... Fas skata, Malaka!

Now it's off to Pita Jungle for some Souvlaki. Ya sas!

 

[NDohio]

Florida not OSU.

Ahhh - that was too long ago to matter...

 

[NDohio]

If we live long enough, we'll see it. It's the future of football.

Someone in the future with ND's "problem" will pull it off. It just takes the right backfield, a program in a state of mediocrity that has nothing to lose and a mad genius HC who's not afaid to tell the media and his AD to... Fas skata, Malaka!

Now it's off to Pita Jungle for some Souvlaki. Ya sas!

Princeton uses three quarterback formation with success, adding pomp to high-powered offense | NJ.com


If only we had smarter players.

 

[Irish#1]

Furthermore, Urban Meyer proved you can win a championship using a 2 QB system.

There are always exceptions to the rule and there are reasons you don't see it very often. It has to be an almost perfect storm of talent, mindset, temperament, continuity and lack of ego's to make it work. Using a two QB system can destroy a team easier then it can make a championship team.

 

[ulukinatme]

I agree with everything you are saying here, except the bold. It wasn't a two QB system Urban used. JT Barrett was the full time starter until he got hurt and then Jones came in as a super sub and led them to the title. Jones didn't get much playing time at all until JT was injured.

There are always exceptions to the rule and there are reasons you don't see it very often. It has to be an almost perfect storm of talent, mindset, temperament, continuity and lack of ego's to make it work. Using a two QB system can destroy a team easier then it can make a championship team.

I'm referring to the championship he won with Tebow and Leak. That was more a 2 QB system, not Barrett/Cardale.

 

[ulukinatme]

Florida not OSU.

Ahhh - that was too long ago to matter...

??? That was less than 10 years ago when Tebow/Leak won a championship. It's not like we're talking Michigan football here, reminiscing when our team was good back in the 1800s.

 

[NDohio]

??? That was less than 10 years ago when Tebow/Leak won a championship. It's not like we're talking Michigan football here, reminiscing when our team was good back in the 1800s.

I didn't think italics were necessary...

 

[NDinL.A.]

The media pretty much nailed everything but I’ll give some thoughts of my own from yesterday’s practice:

• I was all #teamKizer before the practice, but now, man, BK is going to have a REALLY tough call. Zaire balled out, and if we’re going to be a running team, I could see him winning the job because he is really dynamic when he scrambles. Kizer played well also, and as Jaime Y from ISD pointed out, the drop-off from the 1st team O-line to the 2nd team O-line is so big that it makes a difference what line you are playing behind, but all that aside, Zaire can be named the starter tomorrow and I wouldn’t have a legit complaint anymore. And the same thing goes for Kizer.

• Zaire didn’t just scramble and run…he looked to keep the pass alive as well. Probably not as much as Kizer, but he did a good job with it. And he threw the ball much better.

• Holmes and McKinley’s drops…ugh. It was REALLY bad for both of them.

• I’ll reiterate what was said by all the reporters…Boykin was a friggin’ beast. And it wasn’t just outmuscling people either. He did a dig route that faked out Coleman so bad that when he caught it and turned, Coleman was at least 12-15 yds off him.

• EQ was up and down. Had a couple bad drops, but also played really well in spurts. I was talking him up to someone who was commenting how bad he looked early, and then he went and dropped a couple in his breadbasket.

• If you like swagger and shit talking, that Ashton White is your guy. He’s better than I thought he’d be. He had some rough moments yesterday, but was always ready to go the next play.

• Everyone should hear Heistand coach just one time in their lives. He spares no one in his quick tirades. He gets after his guys like no other…and the players still love him. And his players are there 45 minutes before practice starts and they stay late and practice as well. I’ve never seen a practice where his players left with the team.

• Nick Weishar looked so much better than we’ve ever seen him. A great sign after a slow start to camp.

• McGlinchey is clearly the leader of the O-line, and Cole Luke is clearly the leader of the DB’s. Big Mike takes the younger guys aside (after Heistand tears them a new one lol) and helps them with their technique. Same with Luke – he was really helping Troy Pride after all his reps.

• Walk-on Finke could start and succeed for many MAC-level teams. All he does is get open and catch everything thrown his way. As has been said, needs to block WAY better to be a real option there, but if Sanders went down, I’d put him in there above Holmes right now.

• Stepherson will be goooooood.

• If you see McIntosh on the field this year, it’ll be to do one thing…go deep. Kid is fast and tracks the ball well. But he also has no clue what he is doing at wide-out and has to be corrected all the time, from technique to simply where to line up. Think Golden as a freshman (not saying he’ll be that good though).

• I think Sanders will get the ball a lot this year. So quick and very hard to tackle.

• Nyles Morgan – I think you’ll be saying this a lot this year, “Wait, how the fuck was Joe Schmidt playing over him last year???????” I can’t wait to see him play. If he can diagnose a play, he’s going to get there and it will be violent. Ask Sanders.

• Corey Robinson is not there or show. He is really into coaching, and is the raw-raw guy to Denbrock’s bad cop. Every rep, he is running to guys and letting them know what they did well or what they could have done better. I know quite a few people who know him, and no one has ever said a bad word about him. #parentingwin

• Alize Jones was once again really involved in the practice, cheering teammates on, being extremely vocal. Is it an act for the media? We’ll see.

• Still really worried about the pass rush.

• I’m not an expert by any means, but at the very least, Jay Hayes was hustling all over the place. That was good to see and opposite of the guy I saw last fall camp.

• Rochelle is a friggin’ beast. So good. He’s going to get doubled a lot IMO. Jones or a blitzing backer have to be able to take advantage. Jones showed his brute strength one play where he pushed the center 3 yds into the backfield (Folston cut it back the other way where Nelson and McGlinchey opened a huge whole or else the play was blown up).

• Final point – in 2013, I saw a practice and knew we were in trouble. The stars of the team (especially Nix and Tuitt) were playing incredibly lazy and resting on their 12-0 season. You could see it. This team is also coming off a pretty successful season, but I saw two things I liked – the team’s best players still got after it, and the talent level, especially at QB and RB, is sooo much higher than that 2013 team, that I think 10-2 (maaaayyybe 9-3) should be the floor for this team. It’s on BVG IMO to get his act together for what could be another successful season.

 

[koonja]

The media pretty much nailed everything but I’ll give some thoughts of my own from yesterday’s practice:

• I was all #teamKizer before the practice, but now, man, BK is going to have a REALLY tough call. Zaire balled out, and if we’re going to be a running team, I could see him winning the job because he is really dynamic when he scrambles. Kizer played well also, and as Jaime Y from ISD pointed out, the drop-off from the 1st team O-line to the 2nd team O-line is so big that it makes a difference what line you are playing behind, but all that aside, Zaire can be named the starter tomorrow and I wouldn’t have a legit complaint anymore. And the same thing goes for Kizer.

• Zaire didn’t just scramble and run…he looked to keep the pass alive as well. Probably not as much as Kizer, but he did a good job with it. And he threw the ball much better.

• Holmes and McKinley’s drops…ugh. It was REALLY bad for both of them.

• I’ll reiterate what was said by all the reporters…Boykin was a friggin’ beast. And it wasn’t just outmuscling people either. He did a dig route that faked out Coleman so bad that when he caught it and turned, Coleman was at least 12-15 yds off him.

• EQ was up and down. Had a couple bad drops, but also played really well in spurts. I was talking him up to someone who was commenting how bad he looked early, and then he went and dropped a couple in his breadbasket.

• If you like swagger and shit talking, that Ashton White is your guy. He’s better than I thought he’d be. He had some rough moments yesterday, but was always ready to go the next play.

• Everyone should hear Heistand coach just one time in their lives. He spares no one in his quick tirades. He gets after his guys like no other…and the players still love him. And his players are there 45 minutes before practice starts and they stay late and practice as well. I’ve never seen a practice where his players left with the team.

• Nick Weishar looked so much better than we’ve ever seen him. A great sign after a slow start to camp.

• McGlinchey is clearly the leader of the O-line, and Cole Luke is clearly the leader of the DB’s. Big Mike takes the younger guys aside (after Heistand tears them a new one lol) and helps them with their technique. Same with Luke – he was really helping Troy Pride after all his reps.

• Walk-on Finke could start and succeed for many MAC-level teams. All he does is get open and catch everything thrown his way. As has been said, needs to block WAY better to be a real option there, but if Sanders went down, I’d put him in there above Holmes right now.

• Stepherson will be goooooood.

• If you see McIntosh on the field this year, it’ll be to do one thing…go deep. Kid is fast and tracks the ball well. But he also has no clue what he is doing at wide-out and has to be corrected all the time, from technique to simply where to line up. Think Golden as a freshman (not saying he’ll be that good though).

• I think Sanders will get the ball a lot this year. So quick and very hard to tackle.

• Nyles Morgan – I think you’ll be saying this a lot this year, “Wait, how the fuck was Joe Schmidt playing over him last year???????” I can’t wait to see him play. If he can diagnose a play, he’s going to get there and it will be violent. Ask Sanders.

• Corey Robinson is not there or show. He is really into coaching, and is the raw-raw guy to Denbrock’s bad cop. Every rep, he is running to guys and letting them know what they did well or what they could have done better. I know quite a few people who know him, and no one has ever said a bad word about him. #parentingwin

• Alize Jones was once again really involved in the practice, cheering teammates on, being extremely vocal. Is it an act for the media? We’ll see.

• Still really worried about the pass rush.

• I’m not an expert by any means, but at the very least, Jay Hayes was hustling all over the place. That was good to see and opposite of the guy I saw last fall camp.

• Rochelle is a friggin’ beast. So good. He’s going to get doubled a lot IMO. Jones or a blitzing backer have to be able to take advantage. Jones showed his brute strength one play where he pushed the center 3 yds into the backfield (Folston cut it back the other way where Nelson and McGlinchey opened a huge whole or else the play was blown up).

• Final point – in 2013, I saw a practice and knew we were in trouble. The stars of the team (especially Nix and Tuitt) were playing incredibly lazy and resting on their 12-0 season. You could see it. This team is also coming off a pretty successful season, but I saw two things I liked – the team’s best players still got after it, and the talent level, especially at QB and RB, is sooo much higher than that 2013 team, that I think 10-2 (maaaayyybe 9-3) should be the floor for this team. It’s on BVG IMO to get his act together for what could be another successful season.

Good stuff. I've been telling you guys. Jay Hayes is way more athletic/fast than people think. IDC how big he is, watch his high school film and he runs like a jumbo LB.

 

[ulukinatme]

Thanks for the break down. Good info as always.

 

[ND Fan Vancouver]

Awesome stuff. Thanks LA

 

[Wingman Ray]

that I think 10-2 (maaaayyybe 9-3) should be the floor for this team.

No offense to anyone but can someone tell me really who on ND's schedule is really good here?

texas
Nevada
Mich St
Duke
Syracuse
NCS
Stanford
Miami
Navy
VT
USC

I see a total of three teams that should even give ND a close game: USC, MSU and Stanford.

I cant see Stanford doing it because Stanfords strength is the run which is NDs defense strength. Stanford won last years game with a NFL QB and ND having a high school DC calling plays. The starting QB for them this year hardly played a snap last year

Mich St is rebuilding. I would be surprised if they arent a 3-4 loss team this year with a new QB and RB. Easily the third best team in the B10.

USC - again another 3-4 loss season.

Are you guys really second guessing ND to lose to 2 of the 3 tough teams on the schedule? Are you guys that concerned that ND will lose to the 3rd best team in the B10?


Last year ND lost to Clemson (NC contender), Stanford with a pro RB and pro QB, and probably the best team in the country at playoff/bowl time in OSU. And I can see ND being better this year than last.


Im not saying ND for NC or anything but everyone seems to be fishing for 2-3 losses here and I just dont see how short of really stepping on their cocks out of the blue somewhere.

 

[zelezo vlk]

VA Tech does scare me a little.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[Whiskeyjack]

No offense to anyone but can someone tell me really who on ND's schedule is really good here?

Check out this infographic, and then click on the "Independent" button at the bottom. Our SoS this year is projected to be pretty weak.