2016-2017 Notre Dame Men's Basketball

[Ndaccountant]

for the few people who thing going small is a mistake, look at the box scores from below.

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The above is from BC. The best offensive rating belonged to Rex and the best defensive was Gibbs. Torres was terrible both on O and on D in the limited time he got to play. The reason why ND was in a close game was because ND decided to shoot 50% of their attempted FG's from 3. In fact, if ND wasn't able to win both the Off. rebound and TO battle, which produced net 8 possessions for the game, ND would have lost.

I think going small is the best option ND has to win come March, so long as they don't fall in love with the 3. Versus Wake and BC, it nearly cost them. We will see what happens against NCSU, but if the 3pt % of total FG attempts creeps over 40%, we may have another white knuckle game.

 

[NDShark]

for the few people who thing going small is a mistake, look at the box scores from below.

<script type="text/javascript" src="//widgets.sports-reference.com/wg.fcgi?css=1&site=cbb&url=%2Fcbb%2Fboxscores%2F2017-02-14-boston-college.html&div=div_box-score-advanced-notre-dame"></script>

The above is from BC. The best offensive rating belonged to Rex and the best defensive was Gibbs. Torres was terrible both on O and on D in the limited time he got to play. The reason why ND was in a close game was because ND decided to shoot 50% of their attempted FG's from 3. In fact, if ND wasn't able to win both the Off. rebound and TO battle, which produced net 8 possessions for the game, ND would have lost.

I think going small is the best option ND has to win come March, so long as they don't fall in love with the 3. Versus Wake and BC, it nearly cost them. We will see what happens against NCSU, but if the 3pt % of total FG attempts creeps over 40%, we may have another white knuckle game.

Serious question: Does Torres do anything well?

 

[Ndaccountant]

Serious question: Does Torres do anything well?

I think he can have his moments on the boards and can at least by physical and athletic enough to give Colson a breather. But his is a serious liability on offense and if his mind isn't right, on defense too.

 

[NDPhilly]

Serious question: Does Torres do anything well?

Being friends with Demetrius Jackson in high school was and is still his best skill.

 

[Woneone]

for the few people who thing going small is a mistake, look at the box scores from below.

<script type="text/javascript" src="//widgets.sports-reference.com/wg.fcgi?css=1&site=cbb&url=%2Fcbb%2Fboxscores%2F2017-02-14-boston-college.html&div=div_box-score-advanced-notre-dame"></script>

The above is from BC. The best offensive rating belonged to Rex and the best defensive was Gibbs. Torres was terrible both on O and on D in the limited time he got to play. The reason why ND was in a close game was because ND decided to shoot 50% of their attempted FG's from 3. In fact, if ND wasn't able to win both the Off. rebound and TO battle, which produced net 8 possessions for the game, ND would have lost.

I think going small is the best option ND has to win come March, so long as they don't fall in love with the 3. Versus Wake and BC, it nearly cost them. We will see what happens against NCSU, but if the 3pt % of total FG attempts creeps over 40%, we may have another white knuckle game.

I'm not sure trying to use advanced metrics against BC is proving a whole bunch with small ball. They had one true big (I don't count Jeffers, although he how he makes a shot is a small miracle). They were actually, across the board, maybe a tad smaller than we even were.

If you look back against Duke, against UNC, or even the first loss against FSU, those numbers you cited change pretty drastically.
EDIT: UNC is similar, the others are drastically different (Geben's offensive efficiency being one that stands out).

 

[irishfan]

Being friends with Demetrius Jackson in high school was and is still his best skill.

Eh, I'm still happy we offered him. There are worse depth guys out there. I'd prefer to never see him play more than 10 minutes a game, but he's usually fine for a couple minutes here and there. I'd like to see Mooney/Burns step up, but it doesn't seem to be happening yet.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I'm not sure trying to use advanced metrics against BC is proving a whole bunch with small ball. They had one true big (I don't count Jeffers, although he how he makes a shot is a small miracle). They were actually, across the board, maybe a tad smaller than we even were.

If you look back against Duke, against UNC, or even the first loss against FSU, those numbers you cited change pretty drastically.
EDIT: UNC is similar, the others are drastically different (Geben's offensive efficiency being one that stands out).

They didn't really start playing this style (that is, Torres and Geben getting few, if any, minutes) until the 2H against UNC though. So what we have thus far is Wake, FSU and BC as complete games. We don't have a ton of stats to look at, but we are 3-0 since making the change and the comments about the small ball didn't come until after BC. FSU tried to match our size and got hammered. Wake didn't and nearly beat us. BC was a bit of a tweener and we had some issues.

I get your point, but I think some people are generally under-appreciating the court value of Gibbs and Rex, even if it leads to giving up some rebounding.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Eh, I'm still happy we offered him. There are worse depth guys out there. I'd prefer to never see him play more than 10 minutes a game, but he's usually fine for a couple minutes here and there. I'd like to see Mooney/Burns step up, but it doesn't seem to be happening yet.

Yea, it's puzzling for sure. I get that Brey values offensive flow and if these two are not comfortable yet, you can't risk it. But it wasn't like Torres and Geben were helping flow either. At this point, it's the cards we have and Brey is playing them the best he can, but we all know how it's eventually going to end. I just hope its deep into March again.

 

[RDU Irish]

To the next year lineup points a page back - Rex can score, he will easily be a 14ppg replacement with 40%+ 3pt ability - plus defender. I really don't see how Rex doesn't get the nod as a starter next year.

 

[Henges24]

Rex should be a baller next year. You can really see how his game has changed from last year already. He drives to the hoop but almost always kicks it out. I'd like to see him try some more contested layups to hopefully get us to the line. After all, we are the #1 team in FTs this year. Plus shoot a little more. He's too athletic to be hiding behind the scenes.

It was almost funny to see the lineup we had in that brought us back. Rarely do we ever go "BIG" but somehow we managed to make it work. It was almost like we had a legitimate starting lineup in there, size-wise.

 

[RDU Irish]

I think Bonzi, Matt, Rex and TJ have starting spots locked down for next year. Harvey, Ryan and Mooney probably get the most secondary minutes with Torres and Geben doing something like 10 minutes a game each. Nine deep that quickly turns to seven with Harvey probably finishing the season as #5 in minutes played. We need some depth to develop but the top line is pretty stout, if a bit undersized.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I think Bonzi, Matt, Rex and TJ have starting spots locked down for next year. Harvey, Ryan and Mooney probably get the most secondary minutes with Torres and Geben doing something like 10 minutes a game each. Nine deep that quickly turns to seven with Harvey probably finishing the season as #5 in minutes played. We need some depth to develop but the top line is pretty stout, if a bit undersized.

No Burns?

 

[Buster Bluth]

I think Bonzi, Matt, Rex and TJ have starting spots locked down for next year. Harvey, Ryan and Mooney probably get the most secondary minutes with Torres and Geben doing something like 10 minutes a game each. Nine deep that quickly turns to seven with Harvey probably finishing the season as #5 in minutes played. We need some depth to develop but the top line is pretty stout, if a bit undersized.

Who are the back up guards?

 

[BabyIrish]

Who are the back up guards?

Agreed. I think it'd be hard to start all 3 of them. I actually think Rex is more of a lock then tj for next year. He is too good defensively and the perfect player to replace Steve even though tj has been starting. I imagine the last two spots will go to Torres, Burns, Ryan, and Harvey

 

[JD Irish]

I absolutely think smaller is better for this team. The team runs through Colson, and he needs to be given the space on the floor to work. Between Pfleuger and Gibbs, I think Rex has shown enough to be starting.

 

[RDU Irish]

Who are the back up guards?

Have you met Brey? Back ups? We don't need no stinking back ups!

How ridiculous is it to be worried about back up guards at ND - seems he is trying to stack the roster with 6'5"- 6'8" guys who can put it on the floor. Enough size to mix it up in the paint and athletic enough to stretch the floor and keep up with other team's smaller guys.

Have not seen Djogo, Burns or Mooney at all so pure speculation on if/when they are ready to contribute. Brey is not afraid to let people season on the bench for two years so Djogo and Mooney are far from locks to be meaningful contributors next year. It does seem Djogo has the biggest opening from a need perspective but I would not be surprised to see us go "big" in the spells for Rex, TJ and Matt as they rotate one of them at a time to the bench - I would be surprised if any of those three averaged less than 30 minutes per game though. Swinging Ryan in there makes sense since he is about as soft as VJ and an offense driven sub.

I really hope we see a continued rotation to 8-9 players and not a reversion to Brey's 6 man squads.

 

[NDGOLDEN]

2 things
1: Rex is starting on Saturday
2: Mark gottfried their coach is officially fired at end of season. Dumpster fire going down.

 

[RDU Irish]

2 things
1: Rex is starting on Saturday
2: Mark gottfried their coach is officially fired at end of season. Dumpster fire going down.

Beware the dead coach bounce. Why couldn't they wait a week!

 

[NDGOLDEN]

Beware the dead coach bounce. Why couldn't they wait a week!

I was thinking the same thing but that team is spiraling downward. They do have guys that can score but they have a pretty bad defense

 

[irishfan]

Weird that they're having Gottfried coach the rest of the season. I guess they want to avoid something where an Assistant takes over, they overachieve down the stretch, get an NIT bid, and the fans/alumni push to let him be the full-time guy.

We need to start strong Saturday and they'll throw in the towel early. We should be dialed in with a full week of rest after this game.

 

[NDGOLDEN]

Weird that they're having Gottfried coach the rest of the season. I guess they want to avoid something where an Assistant takes over, they overachieve down the stretch, get an NIT bid, and the fans/alumni push to let him be the full-time guy.

We need to start strong Saturday and they'll throw in the towel early. We should be dialed in with a full week of rest after this game.

And we need that break badly. Its hard to say if its better to have a long break at the end of year or not have a break and get momentum rolling into the tourneys

 

[NDPhilly]

That top 4 seed in the ACC feeling

 

[Irish#1]

Unless their a bunch of individuals who don't care about anyone but themselves, NCS will come out jacked up and play one of their best games of the year. Need to be ready.

 

[arrowryan]

That top 4 seed in the ACC feeling

We're #5 right now

 

[Henges24]

Currently on ESPN

 

[clashmore_mike]

Gibbs off to a nice start offensively with a quick 7 points off the bench. Some sloppy TOs from Farrell but overall the offense is getting some good looks.

 

[irishfan]

Announcers are right that we do look a little tired. Good excuse to get Ryan some minutes finally.

 

[clashmore_mike]

Matt Ryan with a couple 3s

 

[clashmore_mike]

Bonzie and Beachem up to 10 a piece despite Beachem wearing black shoes with white socks.

 

[irishfan]

Great half all things considered. We need this week off badly.

Can't let NC State get some life early in the 2nd half. I'd like to see Ryan play 10+ minutes in 2nd half as long as we can keep this lead. Need him confident for the post-season.