2015 Spring Practice Thread

[Luckylucci]

I'd love to know what those stats are

 

[dublinirish]

Sanford going Moneyball on EG and MZ

 

[Hammer Of The Gods]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Tracking practice statistics is something Mike Sanford started doing at Stanford to create game-like reps. <a href="http://t.co/mnTriwD4lt">pic.twitter.com/mnTriwD4lt</a></p>— Nick Ironside (@nironside247) <a href="https://twitter.com/nironside247/status/583299501856665600">April 1, 2015</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p><a href="https://twitter.com/CoachSanfordND">@CoachSanfordND</a> says GA's are calculating Golson/Zaire completions, drops, pass efficiency rating, competion %, TD/INT ratio in practices.</p>— Nick Ironside (@nironside247) <a href="https://twitter.com/nironside247/status/583299290799284225">April 1, 2015</a></blockquote>
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After reading those tweets, I think we know who is in the lead.

 

[ulukinatme]

After reading those tweets, I think we know who is in the lead.

Yup, Kizer. No news is good news.

No, playing devil's advocate, why do those Tweets spell out who is in the lead? Obviously a lot of people have pointed toward Golson, but what about the Tweets makes you think that?

 

[PANDFAN]

Fighting Irish offensive coordinator Mike Sanford spoke to the media today and offered up a comparison between his current job with Notre Dame and one of his former stops at Stanford.

Although there are some differences at both universities, Sanford made it clear that there are plenty of similar aspects between both schools and the type of student-athletes being recruited.

"There are a lot of similarities between recruiting at Notre Dame and Stanford," said Sanford. "There is the national profile piece. For me, I’ve always recruited far away from campus. I recruited Texas, the East Coast, DC, Maryland and areas like that while I was at Stanford. I love the challenge of going outside your region. When you go in with your name brand of Notre Dame and you have that monogram on your shirt, it carries a lot of weight. You see that. It’s really clear. I think it’s really important for you to believe and value what you are selling. I think this is a great thing we’re selling at Notre Dame. We have an incredible tradition. This is a football powerhouse. There really isn’t a game day atmosphere like this. It doesn’t hurt that it’s backed up by the fact that we have a top 15 education nationally. That really is a powerful message we are sending here at Notre Dame."

Sanford also commented on the differences in admissions between both schools, but admits that he doesn't focus on that too much. He made it clear that it's less about which recruit won't gain admittance into school and more about finding the right young men.

"It’s more about seeing if that prospect fits in at Notre Dame and if Notre Dame fits that prospect," said Sanford. "The same thing holds true for Stanford. If you try to quantify, well this kid can get in here but can get in there, you’re going to just end up beating your head against a wall. For us, we just have to find a kid that fits in here socially, academically, athletically and spiritually. Same thing for Stanford. They're two completely different places. I think Stanford is a unique environment. Notre Dame is a unique environment and for different reasons. Quantifying exactly what the differences are for admissions, all you'll end up doing is getting upset about it. Each university is unique and you're going to recruit different types of kids. The academics are really important and we don't want to put prospects in a position to not succeed here. I think the fit of this place is really important."
Sanford Touches On Notre Dame Vs. Stanford

 

[Luckylucci]

After reading those tweets, I think we know who is in the lead.

FWIW, I haven't read one report that has said Zaire looks better. Its all Golson all the time. Now with that said, we all know that Golson is the better passer and when/what is the impact of the zone read getting worked in more. Clearly that is Zaire's wheel house. Personally I think this all comes down to what type of offense Kelly wants to run. I don't think Zaire will catch Golson in the throwing department and I don't think Golson can execute the zone read as well as Zaire. So, it will be interesting to see how this shakes out.

 

[woolybug25]

FWIW, I haven't read one report that has said Zaire looks better. Its all Golson all the time. Now with that said, we all know that Golson is the better passer and when/what is the impact of the zone read getting worked in more. Clearly that is Zaire's wheel house. Personally I think this all comes down to what type of offense Kelly wants to run. I don't think Zaire will catch Golson in the throwing department and I don't think Golson can execute the zone read as well as Zaire. So, it will be interesting to see how this shakes out.

Dead on.

The reality is that if the QB battle was one really being waged in the passing efficiency in practice department... then why have the battle at all? At the end of the day, I think it comes down to whether BK thinks Golson can fix his turnover issues, and if not, can Malik be the leader we need him to be? Beyond that... If they can both do those things, then what kind of offensive identity do we want to have as a team?

In my personal opinion, I would rather have a zone read offense based off running the ball than a pass first spread.

 

[IrishLion]

In my personal opinion, I would rather have a zone read offense based off running the ball than a pass first spread.

If Zaire learns the ins-and-outs of the passing game and progresses enough to where he can beat teams with his arm if he needs to, then I'm with you. The run-first, bulldozer-at-QB, capitalize-with-play-action offense would be a nice change, if nothing else.

But I'm still longing for a passing offense the likes of which BK had at UC, and I truly believe Golson can be that guy. He just needs to keep his head on straight, and BK needs to do a better job of coaching through those self-destruct moments.

If both guys make the necessary improvements? Give me the best of both worlds, and go Tebow/Leak on everyone's asses.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

FWIW, I haven't read one report that has said Zaire looks better. Its all Golson all the time. Now with that said, we all know that Golson is the better passer and when/what is the impact of the zone read getting worked in more. Clearly that is Zaire's wheel house. Personally I think this all comes down to what type of offense Kelly wants to run. I don't think Zaire will catch Golson in the throwing department and I don't think Golson can execute the zone read as well as Zaire. So, it will be interesting to see how this shakes out.

Yep.

Dead on.

The reality is that if the QB battle was one really being waged in the passing efficiency in practice department... then why have the battle at all? At the end of the day, I think it comes down to whether BK thinks Golson can fix his turnover issues, and if not, can Malik be the leader we need him to be? Beyond that... If they can both do those things, then what kind of offensive identity do we want to have as a team?

In my personal opinion, I would rather have a zone read offense based off running the ball than a pass first spread.

Yep.

If Zaire learns the ins-and-outs of the passing game and progresses enough to where he can beat teams with his arm if he needs to, then I'm with you. The run-first, bulldozer-at-QB, capitalize-with-play-action offense would be a nice change, if nothing else.

But I'm still longing for a passing offense the likes of which BK had at UC, and I truly believe Golson can be that guy. He just needs to keep his head on straight, and BK needs to do a better job of coaching through those self-destruct moments.

If both guys make the necessary improvements? Give me the best of both worlds, and go Tebow/Leak on everyone's asses.

Yep.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

If Zaire learns the ins-and-outs of the passing game and progresses enough to where he can beat teams with his arm if he needs to, then I'm with you. The run-first, bulldozer-at-QB, capitalize-with-play-action offense would be a nice change, if nothing else.

But I'm still longing for a passing offense the likes of which BK had at UC, and I truly believe Golson can be that guy. He just needs to keep his head on straight, and BK needs to do a better job of coaching through those self-destruct moments.

If both guys make the necessary improvements? Give me the best of both worlds, and go Tebow/Leak on everyone's asses.

I honestly think this is the best method for this season. Both guys bring great value to the offense in their own respective skill set. Why not utilize both?

 

[PANDFAN]

Video: Notre Dame Offensive Assistants

 

[ulukinatme]

I don't think we're ever going to see the kind of passing attack that Kelly had at Cinci. For one, we've been plagued with issues at QB in Kelly's time here, whether it was execution issues or injury/suspension related. Second, most of the defenses we face are arguably much better than the competition Kelly saw at Cinci most weeks. We have better athletes too, but overall the competition is at a higher level.

Bottom line: the big boys win the big games with a strong running attack. If we can get that behind Golson and he cleans up his turnover issues, that's great. However we have what looks to be a dominant OL heading into 2015 with lots of depth, as well as talented RBs and a QB in Zaire with great leadership and the ability to run the read option. If you want to win the big games, one way or the other, lets run the ball more.

 

[Hammer Of The Gods]

Yup, Kizer. No news is good news.

No, playing devil's advocate, why do those Tweets spell out who is in the lead? Obviously a lot of people have pointed toward Golson, but what about the Tweets makes you think that?

I shouldn't of stated that so direct like I have super powers and read a cryptic message lol. I must admit though , I'm team Golson but according to what every one has been say it appears to be Golson's job to Lose. So, assuming his ' stats' are better I think hes in the lead. I also think this is in way for the staff to cover there ass in case Golson implodes again...

" he threw for 12 touchdowns and 0 INTs during Tuesdays practice...I can't explain his 3 fumbles and 4 INTs we practice like its gameday all day!!!

I want Golson to have the keys, but I'll be on suicide watch if he falls to pieces again.

IMO Golson has all the tools to be Ridiculous and all his mistakes are correctable, but whether he can correct that or not is yet to be seen. I think Zaire is Tebow of sorts. Except we don't run a offense ( now) that is suited for him.

 

[Luckylucci]

Let me throw this out there as well as something thats not being talked about as much. How much does the success of the D play into this decision? Also, why does it seem that the general consensus is that we can't run the ball without going zone read? Interested to hear thoughts.

 

[IrishLion]

Let me throw this out there as well as something thats not being talked about as much. How much does the success of the D play into this decision? Also, why does it seem that the general consensus is that we can't run the ball without going zone read? Interested to hear thoughts.

I don't think it's that "we can't run the ball without the zone read," it's more of "if we're going to primarily run the ball, why not play the quarterback that can help out the most in that area?"

 

[ryno 24]

People believe that the zone-read is the only way to really have a successful power-spread offense. We had a successful power spread in 2012 but that was scene as we were protecting the young qb.

Saying that the zone-read does set a mentality as shown by OSU and Auburn and even to some extent Oregon though their's is not so much of a power spread though they do run the ball just not as powerful as the other schools.

 

[Luckylucci]

I don't think it's that "we can't run the ball without the zone read," it's more of "if we're going to primarily run the ball, why not play the quarterback that can help out the most in that area?"

Wouldn't said player eventually have to push the ball downfield to keep defenses honest?

As of right now and there is a long way to go, I'm with Ryno that I think we can ideally we run a 2012 offense with the idea that Golson can do more than he did that season but not expect as much as we did last year.

 

[ulukinatme]

Let me throw this out there as well as something thats not being talked about as much. How much does the success of the D play into this decision? Also, why does it seem that the general consensus is that we can't run the ball without going zone read? Interested to hear thoughts.

I think we absolutely can run the ball without going zone read, but why throw out a great offense if we have a QB that can run it? It's successful at the college level because it's difficult to defend, but up till now we've never had a QB that could successfully read the edge properly on most of his snaps. Crist couldn't do it, although I don't think we ran it really him. Hendrix couldn't do it. Tommy didn't run it. Golson fails at it. Zaire has been the only one that consistently does a good job based on his limited play last year and Spring games.

If we're going to continue to have struggles on defense with keeping people healthy and shutting down opponents, we absolutely should continue to pound the rock (read option or not) so we minimize the number of possessions the other team has. The more we throw the ball, the more time the other team has to eat away at the scoreboard. We should dominate the trenches with the OL and RBs we have, and running the ball will take the ball out of Golson's hands so there's less opportunities for him to lose it.

 

[Luckylucci]

I think we absolutely can run the ball without going zone read, but why throw out a great offense if we have a QB that can run it? It's successful at the college level because it's difficult to defend, but up till now we've never had a QB that could successfully read the edge properly on most of his snaps. Crist couldn't do it, although I don't think we ran it really him. Hendrix couldn't do it. Tommy didn't run it. Golson fails at it. Zaire has been the only one that consistently does a good job based on his limited play last year and Spring games.

If we're going to continue to have struggles on defense with keeping people healthy and shutting down opponents, we absolutely should continue to pound the rock, read option or not, so we minimize the number of possessions the other team has. The more we throw the ball, the more time the other team has to eat away at the scoreboard. We should dominate the trenches with the OL and RBs we have, and running the ball will take the wall out of Golson's hands so there's less opportunities for him to lose it.

I think this is very fair to say but if it were true wouldn't he be the starting QB already? There is a part of his game that Kelly doesn't believe is at the level it needs to be in order to be the starting QB and thats the passing game. IMO, it will be easier to manufacture a ground game between now and next year than Zaire develop in the passing game to the level thats needed.

 

[IrishLion]

Wouldn't said player eventually have to push the ball downfield to keep defenses honest?

As of right now and there is a long way to go, I'm with Ryno that I think we can ideally we run a 2012 offense with the idea that Golson can do more than he did that season but not expect as much as we did last year.

Correct, which is why I stated above that I agree with Wooly that it needs to be Zaire, IF he progresses enough as a passer to beat defenses with his arm if the game is made one-dimensional.

 

[ShakeDown]

QB capable of running zone read well does not inherently make for a great run O. Just as a pass first QB doesn't mean you can't have a strong running game. More than one way to skin a cat.

 

[ulukinatme]

I think this is very fair to say but if it were true wouldn't he be the starting QB already? There is a part of his game that Kelly doesn't believe is at the level it needs to be in order to be the starting QB and thats the passing game. IMO, it will be easier to manufacture a ground game between now and next year than Zaire develop in the passing game to the level thats needed.

I think that's the question we keep returning to: what identity will this team have in 2015? Are we going to focus more on establishing the run, or will Kelly return to a pass happy or 50/50 team? If it's a pass happy offense, Golson has to be the one you start at this point.

Certainly we can pound the ball with Golson behind center, but the option is harder to defend and can net us good yards on the ground. If we establish a good run game then I think Kelly could use PA to make it easier for Zaire to transition in the passing game. It's not like Zaire is completely inept at throwing the ball, he threw some darts in the Spring game last year, he just likely doesn't have quite the consistency and distance that Golson has yet. I'm really in favor of a 2 QB system: Golson for mostly passing situations (And obviously still run the ball to keep defenses honest), and Zaire in the red zone or 1st/2nd down.

 

[Riddickulous]

If Zaire learns the ins-and-outs of the passing game and progresses enough to where he can beat teams with his arm if he needs to, then I'm with you. The run-first, bulldozer-at-QB, capitalize-with-play-action offense would be a nice change, if nothing else.

But I'm still longing for a passing offense the likes of which BK had at UC, and I truly believe Golson can be that guy. He just needs to keep his head on straight, and BK needs to do a better job of coaching through those self-destruct moments.

If both guys make the necessary improvements? Give me the best of both worlds, and go Tebow/Leak on everyone's asses.

I honestly think this is the best method for this season. Both guys bring great value to the offense in their own respective skill set. Why not utilize both?

I like the way you guys think.

 

[NDdomer2]

If you are operating under a few assumptions, which I think are fair to make, Golson will be the QB next year and ND will have a damn good year.

Assumption #1 - All players improve from year to year.

Within this assumption would be that Golson does make improvements in his decision making/ball control. He will have some decisions/turnovers that make you want to rip your hair out but they won't come at the rate they did last year.

Assumption #2 - Defense overall will have better understanding of their jobs within BVG's D

Within this assumption I expect fewer broken assignments/large gainers and better substitution packages against uptempo offenses.

Just looking at our offensive scoring last year (removing all other stats, to's, etc..), it wasn't that we struggled to score enough points to win. Good lord if we ever score 40 and lose again I might get admitted to a local ward. Golson with this offense will put. points. on. the. board.

The issue will be stopping the opponent (assumption #2) and Golson not giving them some free possessions/points putting our D/team at a disadvantage (assumption #1).

Just my thoughts and nothing against Zaire, kid is a gamer.

 

[PANDFAN]

Notre Dame's new offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach Mike Sanford doesn't know when the Irish coaching staff will determine a starting quarterback, but he knows when it won't be.

Having lost out in a long and drawn out signal-caller competition as a senior at Boise State in 2004 — he quipped that he didn't know whether he would start until the starting lineups were announced before the season opener — he says he wouldn't want to handle it like that as a coach.

Notre Dame fans remember the disastrous handling of the quarterback competition in 2007 leading up to the season-opening 33-3 loss to Georgia Tech in which head coach Charlie Weis did not announce a starter until gameday.


BGI/Rivals.com

While a decision is not likely to be made for months — fall camp in August is a safe bet — Sanford said he likes what he's seen so far from fifth-year senior Everett Golson and junior Malik Zaire as they compete for the No. 1 job.

"I've always been of the accord of I absolutely love when there's competition," Sanford said Wednesday. "Competition is always going to breed the betterment of each individual player in that position room. You really want it to be competitive not just at the top, but for a [sophomore] DeShone Kizer to up his game and work his way into that conversation as well and he's done a good job of that.

"I think the competitiveness of the position is always a good thing and I've been around a ton of clear-cut incumbent starter situations, so I enjoy the whole aspect of the competition and what we're doing is quantifying the competition as much as we can."

Notre Dame graduate assistants track completions, drops, pass efficiency and other stats from the quarterbacks during practice. It's hardly a new trend in college football, but Sanford said the staff wants to be able to point to data in evaluating the duo.

"They've done a good job of understanding that and we've laid out a very clear picture of what we're trying to get done at the quarterback position, but also giving them feedback about what they're doing and how they're stacking up in terms of the quantifiable data we can give them," he said.

"I'm basically quantifying: 'Did you do your job on this play, yes or no?' If they are, it's a plus. If they don't, it's a minus and then we give them notes about what corrections can be made."

Sanford praised both players for their willingness to adapt to a new coach's approach while maintaining an attitude that is "competitive … not combative" in the meeting room.

"With Everett Golson, he's played a lot of meaningful snaps at Notre Dame," Sanford said. "He's won a lot of football games. Sometimes you're a fifth-year senior and you have a coach come in and you might have a way of doing things and you have some fundamental changes that they have and the thing I've been so appreciate of with Everett is his buy-in.

"Malik has unbelievable athletic ability. He's obviously got the body type to play multiple positions, but for him what I've had a chance to see is his arm talent is very good. I think working through the mechanics and fundamentals is what we're trying to do with him because if he is a well-trained pocket passer first, from a mental standpoint and from a fundamental and physical standpoint, obviously the sky is the limit with his abilities as a runner and what he can do outside of the pocket."

 

[Hammer Of The Gods]

Let me throw this out there as well as something thats not being talked about as much. How much does the success of the D play into this decision? Also, why does it seem that the general consensus is that we can't run the ball without going zone read? Interested to hear thoughts.

Same page Lucky. I'm not a "stats" guy but outside of Oregon who runs the zone read
effectively? I lean towards the Wisconsin style of offense, but I don't think that is what we need either. I want a offense that is run first, heavy on tight ends for 'big' packages and short routes over the middle. Play Action, Roll outs, simple screens. That's what Everett needs to succeed in my opinion. IMO Everett Gets paralysis by analysis. Give him to much to look at and he falls apart. We need to reign it a bit and let Bryant and Folston dominate.

 

[Luckylucci]

Same page Lucky. I'm not a "stats" guy but outside of Oregon who runs the zone read
effectively? I lean towards the Wisconsin style of offense, but I don't think that is what we need either. I want a offense that is run first, heavy on tight ends for 'big' packages and short routes over the middle. Play Action, Roll outs, simple screens. That's what Everett needs to succeed in my opinion. IMO Everett Gets paralysis by analysis. Give him to much to look at and he falls apart. We need to reign it a bit and let Bryant and Folston dominate.

A couple things on this. He was at his best in 2012 when they were consistently doing this, IMO. Obviously having a successful run game makes that possible. Also, Sanford spoke at some length about the QB's making checks. It wouldn't surprise me if we emphasize the easy throws.

Couldn't agree more. At some point he's going to have to put that together if he wants a future at the next level (NFL) but for now I don't think he needs to.

 

[CanadalovesND]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/_ffj86-POnE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[NDokie13]

Bonner's in some sort of foot/ankle brace at around 1:37 in the vid. Anyone know what that's about?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Let me throw this out there as well as something thats not being talked about as much. How much does the success of the D play into this decision? Also, why does it seem that the general consensus is that we can't run the ball without going zone read? Interested to hear thoughts.

We run a spread zone-blocking offense. Running successfully in such a system requires heavy use of option concepts. See Oregon, Auburn and Ohio State.

The alternative is a pro-style gap-blocking offense. Needless to say, we're not currently built to do that, and trying to force such a change prematurely would lower our 2015 ceiling quite a bit.

Regardless, there's no reason that Golson can't figure out how to read the backside DE.