2015 Pre-Season Coaches Poll (ND #11)

[IrishLax]

Apparently I'm the only one who thinks MSU is overrated, so I'm probably very wrong.

 

[ACamp1900]

Apparently I'm the only one who thinks MSU is overrated, so I'm probably very wrong.

I think it's definitely fair to question if they are better than the four teams behind them...

 

[Crazy Balki]

Now people can't bitch?


A board heavily made up of Cubs, White Sox, and Red Sox fans ...

Little bitching
Moderate bitching
Massive bitching

 

[wizards8507]

Little bitching
Moderate bitching
Massive bitching

#FreeBrady

 

[Dizzyphil]

Apparently I'm the only one who thinks MSU is overrated, so I'm probably very wrong.

I would have to believe that Cook, Calhoun, and Thomas are the reasons for the high rank. IMO

Diz

 

[connor_in]

So does everyone seem to think Oregon at #5 is right on? Not over or under rated?

 

[Wild Bill]

Apparently I'm the only one who thinks MSU is overrated, so I'm probably very wrong.

They're overrated but the schedule won't expose them. They'll get destroyed by the Ducks and Bucks and then coast to ten wins against CMU, WMU, Air Force, IU, etc. I'd love to play them this year.

 

[woolybug25]

Apparently I'm the only one who thinks MSU is overrated, so I'm probably very wrong.

Yeah... I don't think they are overrated. I'm not sure what evidence is there for that type of argument if you really take a step back. First of all...

I would have to believe that Cook, Calhoun, and Thomas are the reasons for the high rank. IMO

Diz

Secondly, there isn't a program in the country that doesn't seemingly create new stars (mostly out of no name recruits, mind) than MSU. They return two All Big Ten (one of which, was an All American) offensive lineman and only lose one guy on what was one of the best fronts in the country. Then, they should have one of the best front 7's in the country as well. They certainly have proven themselves as a great developer of secondary players as well.

They are pretty loaded with experience (including QB), have a great coach and have upgraded talent. Hard to make an argument against them, but i'm all ears.

 

[Dizzyphil]

Secondly, there isn't a program in the country that doesn't seemingly create new stars (mostly out of no name recruits, mind) than MSU. They return two All Big Ten (one of which, was an All American) offensive lineman and only lose one guy on what was one of the best fronts in the country. Then, they should have one of the best front 7's in the country as well. They certainly have proven themselves as a great developer of secondary players as well.

They are pretty loaded with experience (including QB), have a great coach and have upgraded talent. Hard to make an argument against them, but i'm all ears.

Agreed. They are loaded - I believe they have three or four 5th years too including those I mentioned.

 

[IrishLion]

So does everyone seem to think Oregon at #5 is right on? Not over or under rated?

I think they're a bit overrated, considering Mariota is gone. But you also have to look at things like this on a team-to-team basis.

Bama is replacing their QB, but it won't effect their team much one way or the other. They're going to live and die by the run, so it shouldn't affect their ranking either way.

Auburn is replacing their QB, and it could actually make them better, so they might be underrated.

Oregon is replacing a QB, which is a huge deal to their offense, so they may end up being overrated.

 

[Dizzyphil]

I think they're a bit overrated, considering Mariota is gone. But you also have to look at things like this on a team-to-team basis.

Bama is replacing their QB, but it won't effect their team much one way or the other. They're going to live and die by the run, so it shouldn't affect their ranking either way.

Auburn is replacing their QB, and it could actually make them better, so they might be underrated.

Oregon is replacing a QB, which is a huge deal to their offense, so they may end up being overrated.

Where would that put the Irish since ND is replacing QB as well?

 

[irishfan]

Not only did MSU win 11 games last year, but 8 of those wins were by 22+ points. Their schedule was easy, but they're being propped up still by a huge bowl win and a projected 1st-round QB who has a crazy number of starts under his belt and has won a B1G Championship and a Rose Bowl.

I don't think they have top-10 talent but they might not need it to go 11-1 and be in the playoff conversation. I think they knock off Oregon this year in Week 2.

 

[IrishLion]

Where would that put the Irish since ND is replacing QB as well?

I think #11 is about right.

Being at #11 provides a reasonable path towards the top 4 if the offense reaches its potential and limits turnovers and the defense stays healthy. It also represents a decent number for realistic expectations. Finishing 10-2 or 9-3 should put them right around #11.

The homer in me hopes that Zaire will prove to be addition by subtraction because of the way he changes the offense, and that ND will actually be underrated at #11.

 

[phork]

I haven't really seen a coach of note that has developed better than Dantonio. They are clearly on the good to great level and are in maintain mode now. My only caveat to that is Narduzzi leaving for Pitt.
We'll see if Dantonio is the brains behind the outfit or if it was Narduzzi the whole time.

I am betting they beat Oregon in E. Lansing but will lose to OSU again.

I sigh at every other fan site who is guffawing at ND being 11. "Overrated" , "too high as usual!" blah blah blah.

 

[IrishLion]

Not only did MSU win 11 games last year, but 8 of those wins were by 22+ points. Their schedule was easy, but they're being propped up still by a huge bowl win and a projected 1st-round QB who has a crazy number of starts under his belt and has won a B1G Championship and a Rose Bowl.

I don't think they have top-10 talent but they might not need it to go 11-1 and be in the playoff conversation. I think they knock off Oregon this year in Week 2.

Not even the bowl win. They're still being propped up, two years later, by a win over an overrated Ohio State team in 2013.

 

[UmphreakDomer]

FSU with Golson is overrated. ND with Golson would've been lower.

 

[IrishLax]

Secondly, there isn't a program in the country that doesn't seemingly create new stars (mostly out of no name recruits, mind) than MSU. They return two All Big Ten (one of which, was an All American) offensive lineman and only lose one guy on what was one of the best fronts in the country. Then, they should have one of the best front 7's in the country as well. They certainly have proven themselves as a great developer of secondary players as well.

They are pretty loaded with experience (including QB), have a great coach and have upgraded talent. Hard to make an argument against them, but i'm all ears.

The reason they're overrated in my book is the bolded. They have a great coach? Really? Where? Because the one guy they had who was a genius and responsible for 90%+ of their rise is now a head coach elsewhere. They lose Narduzzi and people somehow think they're going to be BETTER?

And I don't understand how they've "upgraded talent" losing five of their very best skill players... I see a good OL, a good DL, and a good QB. I see MSU as worse at DB/LB/WR/RB than most of the teams behind them. If you put them on the field against, say, USC... who is covering Juju Smith? Who is getting separation on Adoree Jackson? Where is their LB that is as good as Su'a Cravens?

Even if you match them up 1-to-1 against Notre Dame, MSU has a more proven QB and DL. That's it. Their OL is not better. Their LBs are not better. Their secondary is not better. Their WRs are not better. Their TE situation is not better. Their RB situation MIGHT be better depending on what happens with Folston/Bryant here.

So sure, they'll trounce a schedule that has 10 meh teams that play to their strengths and 2 very elite teams. I would not pick them to do better than 8-4 or 7-5 if you replaced their conference slate with that of a Mississippi State or Colorado.

 

[woolybug25]

The reason they're overrated in my book is the bolded. They have a great coach? Really? Where? Because the one guy they had who was a genius and responsible for 90%+ of their rise is now a head coach elsewhere. They lose Narduzzi and people somehow think they're going to be BETTER?

How do we know that? Narduzzi is a Dantonio disciple, not the other way around. Plus, it's not just the defense that is good on this team. They have developed excellent runningbacks and had three All Big Ten linemen last year. Narduzzi didn't do any of that.

And I don't understand how they've "upgraded talent" losing five of their very best skill players... I see a good OL, a good DL, and a good QB. I see MSU as worse at DB/LB/WR/RB than most of the teams behind them. If you put them on the field against, say, USC... who is covering Juju Smith? Who is getting separation on Adoree Jackson? Where is their LB that is as good as Su'a Cravens?

They return two All Big10 (one all american) offensive linemen, a good QB and their four main receiving targets from last season. They have also upgraded at a lot of positions. Hell, they got young guys like Malik McDowell who we would kill to have. To answer your question on who would cover _____. I am pretty confident that second year safety Montae Nicholson (0.9174 rating on 247) could handle him and DeAnthony Arnett would win enough battles against Adoree to let them pound the rock. Finally, how many teams in the country have a LB as good as Su'a Cravens? If that is the measuring stick than it's an awfully small stick.

Even if you match them up 1-to-1 against Notre Dame, MSU has a more proven QB and DL. That's it. Their OL is not better. Their LBs are not better. Their secondary is not better. Their WRs are not better. Their TE situation is not better. Their RB situation MIGHT be better depending on what happens with Folston/Bryant here.

I never said that I don't think we could beat them, I just don't think they are overranked. They belong at #6. We are not significantly better at any position group as they are. That's a fact. Even with how good our offensive line is, they are the team with an All American lineman returning. Not us.

So sure, they'll trounce a schedule that has 10 meh teams that play to their strengths and 2 very elite teams. I would not pick them to do better than 8-4 or 7-5 if you replaced their conference slate with that of a Mississippi State or Colorado.

Who is to know. What we do know, is this is a team that will probably have a top 10 defense and compete for the BIG title and a playoff spot. That is worthy of a preseason #6 ranking. I'm not saying that I want to give Dantonio a reach around, I'm just saying that they have been extremely good as of lately and don't have any data points aiming at a downturn.

 

[IrishLax]

They return two All Big10 (one all american) offensive linemen, a good QB and their four main receiving targets from last season. They have also upgraded at a lot of positions. Hell, they got young guys like Malik McDowell who we would kill to have. To answer your question on who would cover _____. I am pretty confident that second year safety Montae Nicholson (0.9174 rating on 247) could handle him and DeAnthony Arnett would win enough battles against Adoree to let them pound the rock. Finally, how many teams in the country have a LB as good as Su'a Cravens? If that is the measuring stick than it's an awfully small stick.

Huh? They lost their top two receivers to the draft... one of which, Tony Lippett, was BY FAR their most prolific receiver with TRIPLE the yards of anyone left on the roster. So the bolded is just a factually inaccurate statement.

It's not even worth discussing the idea that a guy with 27 career catches in three years is going to be able to beat someone like Adoree Jackson... that a safety is going to cover Juju. And the measuring stick is what it is when you're a top 10 team. Ohio State, Notre Dame, etc. all have comparable LBs to Cravens... MSU doesn't even have guys who you can classify as serious draft prospects.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

I haven't really seen a coach of note that has developed better than Dantonio. They are clearly on the good to great level and are in maintain mode now. My only caveat to that is Narduzzi leaving for Pitt.
We'll see if Dantonio is the brains behind the outfit or if it was Narduzzi the whole time.

I am betting they beat Oregon in E. Lansing but will lose to OSU again.

I sigh at every other fan site who is guffawing at ND being 11. "Overrated" , "too high as usual!" blah blah blah.

Never guffawed but I am one of those fans. I'll be honest, it's a little bit of snake-bitten syndrome. We haven't proven we can handle that kind of pressure and Malik is doing his best to crank up the volume and I just want to finish a regular season like we did in 2012. We were dialed in, handling business and our team had an identity of toughness.

It felt so good to see teams struggle to run the ball against us and it felt equally good to run the ball so well, until we ran into the buzzsaw that was Alabama.

I don't really care about our ranking but we finished last year at....25? It's hard for me to believe we deserve and 11 ranking until we prove it. But that's what preseason is for and yes, we return some studs so let's hope this is our year.

Let's hope, for once, we're built for pressure and we over-perform. Being ranked at #11 to start the season leaves a narrow margin for over-performing.

 

[dang227]

The reason they're overrated in my book is the bolded. They have a great coach? Really? Where? Because the one guy they had who was a genius and responsible for 90%+ of their rise is now a head coach elsewhere. They lose Narduzzi and people somehow think they're going to be BETTER?



And I don't understand how they've "upgraded talent" losing five of their very best skill players... I see a good OL, a good DL, and a good QB. I see MSU as worse at DB/LB/WR/RB than most of the teams behind them. If you put them on the field against, say, USC... who is covering Juju Smith? Who is getting separation on Adoree Jackson? Where is their LB that is as good as Su'a Cravens?



Even if you match them up 1-to-1 against Notre Dame, MSU has a more proven QB and DL. That's it. Their OL is not better. Their LBs are not better. Their secondary is not better. Their WRs are not better. Their TE situation is not better. Their RB situation MIGHT be better depending on what happens with Folston/Bryant here.



So sure, they'll trounce a schedule that has 10 meh teams that play to their strengths and 2 very elite teams. I would not pick them to do better than 8-4 or 7-5 if you replaced their conference slate with that of a Mississippi State or Colorado.

Honestly Lax I think it is the other way around with the coaches. I have been in the defensive meeting room with those two and Dantonio ran the show up there. I think Narduzzi was a product of Dantonio not the other way around.

 

[dang227]

BTW I am not a believer in the Shartans either.

 

[Luckylucci]

They're overrated but the schedule won't expose them. They'll get destroyed by the Ducks and Bucks and then coast to ten wins against CMU, WMU, Air Force, IU, etc. I'd love to play them this year.

Thats kind of how I feel on the matter. I don't think they are as good as people make them out to be but is this listing the best teams in college football or predicting what the rankings will look like come the end of the season? Do I think they are the 6th best team in CFB, no. But I don't think they'll lose more than 2 games either, possibly only 1. Which will put them in the race for that ranking.

Quietly the Ducks are a little concerned about the QB position. Vernon Adams isn't eligible yet and he's an FCS star but never consistently done it on the big stage. Jeff Lockie shat his pants when he has had to play in the past. I can see them beating Oregon in East Lansing for 11 wins and definitely giving them a shot at 6. I'd say Oregon is overrated.

 

[Grahambo]

Now people can't bitch?


A board heavily made up of Cubs, White Sox, and Red Sox fans ...

And a Mets fan.

 

[IrishLax]

Honestly Lax I think it is the other way around with the coaches. I have been in the defensive meeting room with those two and Dantonio ran the show up there. I think Narduzzi was a product of Dantonio not the other way around.

No shit?

Well then I retract everything related to Narduzzi.

 

[dang227]

Granted Narduzzi actually has some personality which you can't say for Dantonio. When your talking with Dantonio, he actually looks like it's painful to him to have to respond. Man knows his defense though. Still can't figure out how he recruits.

 

[MNIrishman]

Granted Narduzzi actually has some personality which you can't say for Dantonio. When your talking with Dantonio, he actually looks like it's painful to him to have to respond. Man knows his defense though. Still can't figure out how he recruits.

Mark Dantonio selling results, others sell hope | CollegeFootballTalk

 

[woolybug25]

Huh? They lost their top two receivers to the draft... one of which, Tony Lippett, was BY FAR their most prolific receiver with TRIPLE the yards of anyone left on the roster. So the bolded is just a factually inaccurate statement.

It's not even worth discussing the idea that a guy with 27 career catches in three years is going to be able to beat someone like Adoree Jackson... that a safety is going to cover Juju. And the measuring stick is what it is when you're a top 10 team. Ohio State, Notre Dame, etc. all have comparable LBs to Cravens... MSU doesn't even have guys who you can classify as serious draft prospects.

I misread on the WR's, but it doesn't change my overriding point. They lost a good receiver... Point taken. But none of the guys they lost are pivotal to their success. Every team loses players, but they still have great players on both sides of the ball. They have up and comers like McDowell and Nicholson who look to be the next stars. Dantonio has a track record and returns tons of good players at the most important positions on the field. Simply putting the argument in a vaccum and saying they are overrated because they don't have a LB as good as Cravens really marginalizes the total picture of their teams. I promise at least a couple of the top 6 teams at the end of the year won't have a LB on that level. But guys like McDowell certainly have that kind of potential, albeit at a different position.

They have finished in the top 5 the last two seasons, I simply don't see evidence to believe that they are worse then they were last year, and they are preseason ranked lower than their last two finishes.

 

[T Town Tommy]

I would say Bama is a little too high starting. I would have put them in the 6-8 range. I thought Clemson would rank higher than FSU but get why they aren't. They have to prove they can win the ACC to get the benefit of the doubt. I thought ND would get in the Top 10. I think Mich St may be a little too high as well. Auburn goes as Jeremy Johnson goes. Their offense will be different as he is not the threat that Gus has had at QB running the ball. Tennessee being 25 is fine by me. I think their season rides on Dobbs. If he plays well, they will be fine.

It is a preseason poll so no real need to get worked up about it. Everybody has zero losses right now. Just tee it up and sort it out.

 

[ThePiombino]

Apparently I'm the only one who thinks MSU is overrated, so I'm probably very wrong.

I want very much to believe that they are overrated - and maybe they are, I mean how hard is it to manage 10 wins with that B1G schedule? - but at the end of the day, they win games.