2012 Fall Camp Thread

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Bogtrotter07

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I thought about this a lot. And talked to quite a few people smarter than me. If Kelly had concerns, especially of any of the freshmen defensive personel, wouldn't he have been more likely to move personel to shore things up? Guys like Slaughter could have been moved to DOG or corner. Shembo could have been moved to DOG. Niklas played very passable DOG with configuration assistance from Diaco last year. Etc.

I belive Kelly's assured smile and quote, "He's going to be a star, some day." No, it think this is straight forward. Will he get beat? Probably. Can he play the position, yes.
 
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Ndaccountant

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I thought about this a lot. And talked to quite a few people smarter than me. If Kelly had concerns, especially of any of the freshmen defensive personel, wouldn't he have been more likely to move personel to shore things up. Guys like Slaughter could have been moved to DOG or corner. Shembo could have been moved to DOG. Niklas played very passable DOG with configuration assistance from Diaco last year. Etc.

I belive Kelly's assured smile and quote, "He's going to be a star, some day." No, it think this is straight forward. Will he get beat? Probably. Can he play the position, yes.

I understand what you are saying, but put yourself in Kelly's shoes for a second. Move Niklas? Not after Welch's injury. Move Slaughter? Nope, as many coaches have pointed out, a veteran safety is uber important to help allignment and calls.

In reality, if something would happen to Ben and it was going to be a pro-longed period of time before he returns, which is more likely: moving shembo or letting romeo play? If I had to wager on it, I would say Shembo moves over.
 

rocket66

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Kelly has a quiet confidence with this team, and albeit young, the players getting the starting nod have some big time skill across the board. Both sides of the ball have great veteran leadership as well to help these young guys along. We haven't seen this "complete" of a team in a long time, and certainly haven't seen the trench talent this team possesses in a very long time. It's going to be a fun ride fellas, this year and beyond. This team now has the foundation for success.
 
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Bogtrotter07

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I understand what you are saying, but put yourself in Kelly's shoes for a second. Move Niklas? Not after Welch's injury. Move Slaughter? Nope, as many coaches have pointed out, a veteran safety is uber important to help allignment and calls.

In reality, if something would happen to Ben and it was going to be a pro-longed period of time before he returns, which is more likely: moving shembo or letting romeo play? If I had to wager on it, I would say Shembo moves over.

Exactly. And he hasn't. Because Kelly's entire history is to preserve any players elgibility and gray shirt if possible. So if there had been any serious issue, and I agree that Slaughter and Niklas are set, Shembo would have to move; and he would have moved by now.

The only way Shembo moves is if Romeo, (and maybe CJ) fail.


When is the press conference, usually Tuesday at Noon, but I didn't know if that was changed with the long trip.
 
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GoldenIsThyFame

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We can all think what we want and talk ourselves into anything we hope is the truth. The same goes for the coaches. Obviously going into the season last year BK and the staff thought Gary Gray was an elite CB, Shembo was going to fit well at DOG and Dayne Crist was going to lead us to a BCS game. That all changed once they put on the pads and played the game.

5 days gentlemen. Let's separate the men from the boys.
 

arrowryan

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We can all think what we want and talk ourselves into anything we hope is the truth. The same goes for the coaches. Obviously going into the season last year BK and the staff thought Gary Gray was an elite CB, Shembo was going to fit well at DOG and Dayne Crist was going to lead us to a BCS game. That all changed once they put on the pads and played the game.

5 days gentlemen. Let's separate the men from the boys.

What is your take on the Navy game Golden?
 

PANDFAN

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We can all think what we want and talk ourselves into anything we hope is the truth. The same goes for the coaches. Obviously going into the season last year BK and the staff thought Gary Gray was an elite CB, Shembo was going to fit well at DOG and Dayne Crist was going to lead us to a BCS game. That all changed once they put on the pads and played the game.

5 days gentlemen. Let's separate the men from the boys.

i felt like i was in a huddle on one knee listening to you say this..
 
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Bogtrotter07

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Thanks, with my schedule and the UND.com site organization, I just can't find that shiit anywhere.
 
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GoldenIsThyFame

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What is your take on the Navy game Golden?

Win by 17. Our O-line will create canyons for Theo and GAIII to run through. Just PRAYING someone doesn't get chopped and hurt a knee. The last thing we need is a prolonged injury to one of our key defensive players. I do think we will give up a lot more rushing yds then last year and they will complete at least one big gainer on our corners biting on the run fake (likely Keivarae). Biggest key is Kona and Nix for me. If they stay disciplined and stop the FB dive it throws off their entire offense.
 

caligold

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Win by 17. Our O-line will create canyons for Theo and GAIII to run through. Just PRAYING someone doesn't get chopped and hurt a knee. The last thing we need is a prolonged injury to one of our key defensive players. I do think we will give up a lot more rushing yds then last year and they will complete at least one big gainer on our corners biting on the run fake (likely Keivarae). Biggest key is Kona and Nix for me. If they stay disciplined and stop the FB dive it throws off their entire offense.

Bam Golden. Its the truth. In the Triple Option if you can't establish your FB then you might as well kiss the rest of it goodbye. AND if the QB keeps it our DEs and OLBs absolutely need to punish him for it. Even if it means giving up a big gainer on a couple, you need to put fear into the QB when he keeps it. Buddy Ryan style.

Cierre will hurt badly in pass pro, but I am really jacked to see GAIII get a lot of carries. I literally can't wait for this game to start on Saturday. GO IRISH!!!!
 

BobD

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We can all think what we want and talk ourselves into anything we hope is the truth. The same goes for the coaches. Obviously going into the season last year BK and the staff thought Gary Gray was an elite CB, Shembo was going to fit well at DOG and Dayne Crist was going to lead us to a BCS game. That all changed once they put on the pads and played the game.

5 days gentlemen. Let's separate the men from the boys.

Yep, by this time Saturday we will know a lot more about our team and hopefully celebrating our first victory. My attention will then momentarily turn to hoping Alabama beats the living crap out of Michigan later in the day. If they can do that, we won't have to hear nearly as much about Michigan or Denard the rest of the year. :)
 

caligold

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Praying for a very HIGH Crimson Tide that drowns the skunkbear nation on Saturday. Hopefully while nursing a hangover induced by a 530am PST wakeup whilst drinking to an IRISH romp!
 
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Bogtrotter07

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You know I am going to chime in on this Navy prediction thing. Many of you are more versed than me, but I am thinking with Teach gone, Navy doesn't have the inside marbles it has had, and now we have Schwenke and Nix, both at their top form, with Springman aptly backing them up. They all hold a huge size advantage.

I am worried about injury, too, knock on wood; but I think that Navy has a huge problem with our middle and getting the run established.

On offense I think every issue, even Everett starting is secondary. How do we deal with picking up the blitz is number one with a bullett! Cierre was great at it. Do we shift to more of a two tight end set? How does Coach Martin create an exploitable mismatch that keeps the pressure out of the middle?
 

arrowryan

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Win by 17. Our O-line will create canyons for Theo and GAIII to run through. Just PRAYING someone doesn't get chopped and hurt a knee. The last thing we need is a prolonged injury to one of our key defensive players. I do think we will give up a lot more rushing yds then last year and they will complete at least one big gainer on our corners biting on the run fake (likely Keivarae). Biggest key is Kona and Nix for me. If they stay disciplined and stop the FB dive it throws off their entire offense.

I agree with you. I think Nix is one of the best nose guards in the country, he will take away the full back
 

Rizzophil

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I haven't seen the tape from last year. But does anyone think that we will use Kona and Nix in the base defense against Navy? Then, just rotate in T Springman?
 

arrowryan

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I haven't seen the tape from last year. But does anyone think that we will use Kona and Nix in the base defense against Navy? Then, just rotate in T Springman?

I think if we use a 4 man front it would be Kap and Ishaq (or Tuitt) on the outside, with Nix and Tuitt (or Kona) on the inside.
 

beryirish

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ND/Navy point spread

Pre-Wood suspension - 17
Post-Wood suspension- 16.5

Damnit Cierre you better come back and rock MSU!!
 

PANDFAN

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ND/Navy point spread

Pre-Wood suspension - 17
Post-Wood suspension- 16.5

Damnit Cierre you better come back and rock MSU!!

proves Vegas doesn't think he makes much of an impact...they typically give .5 just for home field advantage
 
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Bogtrotter07

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Wow, bery, that's a great point. Wouldanevethought to look for that. I am too busy dodging people taking pictures of me, mowing my lawn.

Seriously though; why would we use a four man front against Navy?
 

Andy in Sactown

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proves Vegas doesn't think he makes much of an impact...they typically give .5 just for home field advantage

Well, yes and no. The wiseguys move the line with the money. While that is a fair conclusion to make, the line movement may not have anything to do with it. Not saying it didn't; merely that those odd-makers will bet on both sides of a line as it moves with the money.
 
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NDhoosier

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Kelly said Okware is a DOG. Kelly made it absolutely clear that right now for the forseeable future Okwara was a DOG. And it would take a lot of growing to see CAT. Let alone DE. Okwara as a freshman can cover better than anyone playing the dog position ever for ND than those that are true db's and Ben Councell, this year. Danny Spond does not qualify for this conversation because he cannot currently play.

That simply isnt true, why do you say that? And yes, Spond does count, that is the whole reason Okwara was put there in the first place, Spond is expected to play again THIS season and will still be in the discussion for next year. Okwara was moved there for DEPTH after an injury, he didnt come in expecting to play DOG because he never had to do pass coverage in high school.

Kelly and staff also said Niklas was going to a beast at LB... Ben Councell (and next year Jaylon Smith) are ideal DOGs, I would much rather have them in coverage than Okwara, I would rather Okwara be rushing the QB. I still believe Okwara was moved there for depth after the injury, that will not be his permanent position. I am NOT dogging (pun intended) Okwara's athletic abilities, Okwara was recruited as a pass rusher DE/CAT hybrid, and I think he will make a BEASTLY CAT.
 

FLDomer

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I like to leave all this thinking, analyzing, coaching to the..... Coaches! They know more than us arm chair coaches.
 

Irish#1

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You know I am going to chime in on this Navy prediction thing. Many of you are more versed than me, but I am thinking with Teach gone, Navy doesn't have the inside marbles it has had, and now we have Schwenke and Nix, both at their top form, with Springman aptly backing them up. They all hold a huge size advantage.

I am worried about injury, too, knock on wood; but I think that Navy has a huge problem with our middle and getting the run established.

On offense I think every issue, even Everett starting is secondary. How do we deal with picking up the blitz is number one with a bullett! Cierre was great at it. Do we shift to more of a two tight end set? How does Coach Martin create an exploitable mismatch that keeps the pressure out of the middle?

I was thinking the same thing when I read your post. From the little I have read on Navy, it's a big drop off at QB this year. I too fear the chop blocks. Too many opportunities for leg injuries. Keep the hands extended men.
 
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Bogtrotter07

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That simply isnt true, why do you say that? Because it is true and a valid point. And yes, Spond does count, that is the whole reason Okwara was put there in the first place, Spond is expected to play again THIS season and will still be in the discussion for next year. Is he back to practice? Is he playing right now? Because that was all I was talking about, specifically. Okwara was moved there for DEPTH after an injury, he didnt come in expecting to play DOG because he never had to do pass coverage in high school. No he was not moved there after Spond's injury; he was number three on the depth chart. Not unless you have sourcable information that makes Kelly and Okwara both liars. Kelly SAID IN A PRESS CONFERENCE THAT DOG WAS HIS POSITION AND THAT HE WAS GOING TO BE A STAR. And Romeo talked about learning about coverage last winter, and practicing with coaching (not ND staff) this spring and summer. You ought to try reading and listening once and a while, there is some good stuff out their Maynard.
Kelly and staff also said Niklas was going to a beast at LB... Ben Councell (and next year Jaylon Smith) are ideal DOGs, I would much rather have them in coverage than Okwara, I would rather Okwara be rushing the QB. I still believe Okwara was moved there for depth after the injury, that will not be his permanent position. I am NOT dogging (pun intended) Okwara's athletic abilities, Okwara was recruited as a pass rusher DE/CAT hybrid, and I think he will make a BEASTLY CAT.

The rest I put inline. This part about a beastly CAT. Kelly just said Romeo is a DOG, and that he has a lot of growing to do before he moves out of the DOG position. If you want to test my logic, which is rarer someone with all the skills who can play DOG, a CAT backer who can rush or cover the run, or a Defensive end? Right a DOG linebacker is the rarest. So why would a coach want to give that up to fill a few fans fantasies? He wouldn't.

I guess I just don't like hearing, "That simply isn't true . . . " I have never treated you that way.
 

NDdomer2

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My question regarding the DOG position is this: If it is the toughest physically + mentally then why did we play a true Frosh last year along with a out-of-position Shembo only to have neither their this year, and now we have a converted safety, a rs frosh (sophomore with 4 years eligibility for those who are uber detailed), a true frosh lb, and true frosh converted safety? If it were so hard mentally to understand the position wouldn't we have kept someone there and/or recruited BEFORE year 3 a lb who is used to being in coverage? Just seems like maybe the position isn't as mentally demanding as it is just having the abilities to cover. Just my opinion though.
 
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Bogtrotter07

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My question regarding the DOG position is this: If it is the toughest physically + mentally then why did we play a true Frosh last year along with a out-of-position Shembo only to have neither their this year, and now we have a converted safety, a rs frosh (sophomore with 4 years eligibility for those who are uber detailed), a true frosh lb, and true frosh converted safety? If it were so hard mentally to understand the position wouldn't we have kept someone there and/or recruited BEFORE year 3 a lb who is used to being in coverage? Just seems like maybe the position isn't as mentally demanding as it is just having the abilities to cover. Just my opinion though.

I have thought about this long and hard. Not so long and hard that I have hurt myself, but here is what I have got.

OSL Skills:

1) Rush the quarterback
2) Play the run
3) Cover the receiver (usually on the field side under)​

CAT skills:
1) When required
2) When required
3) Rarely​

DOG skills:
1) Less frequently but when required
2) When requiered
3) When required​

The differences between the skills for CAT and DOG:
1) DOG requires greater foot speed
2) DOG requires greater better coverage skills
3) DOG requires greater deciciveness as to what the coverage countdown (keys in order are) is - mind speed.
4) Cat requires greater strength at the point of attack​

One and two are rare enough, three is really uncommon. Shembo had footspeed and decent coverage skills as did Flemming. Niklas had some of all three, but remember they simplified when they played him against MSU. And at the end of the season they played Slaughter a lot!

Now the rest of the story: The coaching staff knew they were growing a Councell, who they selected for the job, suspected that Spond could move to it with work. And that is exactly what they saw for Okwara, as they recuruited him. On signing day Kelly made a bit of a mention of Okwara having the skill to cover . . .

And ND has never had a truly great DOG, yet.
 
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