'20 NY LB Cullen Coleman (Northwestern Verbal)

[rtrn2glory]

The opinion is fine, I just don't know how the staff can do it. It's like saying you don't think there should be hunger in the world. It seems like a very broad, idealistic statement.

Kelly and staff recruit for each position. Sometimes players don't pan out or they transfer out or we miss on recruits. We can either leave a gaping hole or try to find players with athletic profiles to fill the need.

If you are suggesting they recruit perfectly and have 100% retention of wanted players, that'd be great but again, I don't know how they do it.

I know we all like to point out issues but I'm very interested in hearing your solutions.

i guess i don't have solutions tbh. the only one i can think of is to avoid recruiting players that you aren't sure where they fit. maybe they do. maybe they're recruiting him and expecting him to be a RB. idk for sure. but i feel like if they don't we lose years of production to years of learning to play a position.

 

[Luckylucci]

I don’t think the concern is taking a versatile player. For me, I just don’t like turning away what looks like a really good player with ties to ND to get someone who may be a little more versatile.

I think saying "a little more versatile" is an understatement. He's 6'3+ and runs a 4.5. He's got some pretty freakish athleticism.

I'm fairly surprised the reception he's getting here. This is a no brainer for me. Cody Simon is a good player and all but he's nothing this team doesn't already have at LB. They're just unproven, exactly how Cody would be when he comes in. What the team doesn't have enough of is 6'3 humans that run a 4.5. Never can have enough of those.

 

[KizerWilhelm]

I think kids panning out at the next level is more of a crapshoot than a lot of us take for granted. With the exception of elite players, every prospect is a project at a football level. And some end up having bad grades, cant stay oooff the weeeed-uh, etc.

Think of it this way: suppose Simon has an 80% chance of contributing at LB, Murphy has an 80% chance of contributing at RB, and Coleman has a 60% chance of contributing respectively at either position. The chance that Coleman contributes at either position is 84%.

That's oversimplifying things by pretending the chance of him succeeding at either position are independent of each other; they're probably conditional to some extent. But even it were lower, his expected value per scholarship is just far, far higher than the alternative of taking both.

This whole calculus changes when your talking about elite talent who will almost certainly contribute: no one would say we should take Coleman instead of Tyree. But I don't think anyone thinks the gap in talent between Coleman and Simon is THAT high.

 

[Domina Nostra]

LB is a very instinctual position. There are a lot of great athletes who can't play full speed because they don't have a great feel for what is going on.

Simon sound like a very good athlete and a very good LB. I would not pass, whether or not you take Coleman.

 

[NDdomer2]

I don’t think the concern is taking a versatile player. For me, I just don’t like turning away what looks like a really good player with ties to ND to get someone who may be a little more versatile.

This is all based on assumption that Simon is a lock. He isn't.

 

[IrishFanJMercy]

I think Cody Simon is a better linebacker and tirek Smith is a better running back

 

[Sherm Sticky]

I feel like this is AJ Dillion part 2. I’m on wit giving him a shot at RB, especially if he turns into AJ Dillion.


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[Luckylucci]

I think Cody Simon is a better linebacker and tirek Smith is a better running back

And there were better RB's coming out of HS than CJ Prosise but when he worked at it with a staff that knew what they were doing, he turned into a pretty damn good one. And better than a lot of guys that were "better" than him when he was 17. Same goes for KVR, Drue Tranquill, Jalen Elliot, etc. Solid list of guys that played different positions in HS than at ND and turned out pretty good.

The whole point of Cullen Coleman is upside. He's 6'3 and runs a 4.5 40. Teach him the position that best fits his skillset when he's on campus.

 

[ResLife Hero]

And there were better RB's coming out of HS than CJ Prosise but when he worked at it with a staff that knew what they were doing, he turned into a pretty damn good one. And better than a lot of guys that were "better" than him when he was 17. Same goes for KVR, Drue Tranquill, Jalen Elliot, etc. Solid list of guys that played different positions in HS than at ND and turned out pretty good.

The whole point of Cullen Coleman is upside. He's 6'3 and runs a 4.5 40. Teach him the position that best fits his skillset when he's on campus.

I really like Simon and some other guys we're going to have to pass on this year, but I saw this a few days back, and Lucky's comment reminded me of it:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Related...between 2014-2016, there were 5 LBs ranked in the Top100 by 247Sports that were draft eligible this year and went undrafted. None of them played significantly anything but LB in HS.</p>— Barton Simmons (@bartonsimmons) <a href="https://twitter.com/bartonsimmons/status/1126503488760860672?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 9, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Who knows who ends up being a better player, but athletes with position flexibility should be at a premium.

 

[stlnd01]

Re: Simon, Murphy and Coleman, I would take all three and figure there will be room. Because in the end, there is always room.

 

[Irish#1]

Don’t we have a starting receiver on the team that was pretty raw when he arrived?

 

[JD Irish]

Re: Simon, Murphy and Coleman, I would take all three and figure there will be room. Because in the end, there is always room.

100% agree.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Re: Simon, Murphy and Coleman, I would take all three and figure there will be room. Because in the end, there is always room.

If the staff have this option, I'd think the only one possibly turned away would be Murphy. They could pass on all other LB prospects and just sign Simon and it'd meet the needs.

We're taking a smaller OL class and loading up on WRs, DL and Secondary. Need to make sure we have at least 8 more spaces:

1 DL
2-3 WR
4+ DB/athletes

We will probably cap out after 20 commits, I'd be a little surprised by the staff going higher than this.

 

[NDIrish88]

If the staff have this option, I'd think the only one possibly turned away would be Murphy. They could pass on all other LB prospects and just sign Simon and it'd meet the needs.

We're taking a smaller OL class and loading up on WRs, DL and Secondary. Need to make sure we have at least 8 more spaces:

1 DL
2-3 WR
4+ DB/athletes

We will probably cap out after 20 commits, I'd be a little surprised by the staff going higher than this.

They will go higher than 20. My guess would be 22 at most though.

 

[NDMIA]

QB - 1 - DONE
RB - 2 - Returning 5 w/ Jones Jr a RS SR, I’d take 2 if it’s big time talent
TE - 2 - DONE
WR - 3 - McMillan, Omeire, Redding, Henning, Watts, Nixon fighting for 2 spots
OL - 3 - Carmody, Hatchett, Zinter, Atteberry, 4 spots if Gentry wants in as a ‘22
DL - 5 - BRAIDEN MCGREGOR.
LB - 1 - Cody Simon, Cullen Coleman, I’d take Simon but Coleman wouldn’t be bad
DB - 5 - 11 scholly’s returning (Gilman & Crawford night make that 9) so they need #’s
ST - 1 - DONE
TOTAL - 23

75 (returning eligibility) + 23 = 98 (9 Graduate Seniors!!!)

That’s what I’d do. I’d probably go 1 RB and 0 LB and then just take the BPA with the last two spots but I think they’re liked by a lot of super talented RB’s that I don’t think they should turn away a 2nd 4* if he wants into the program. And as far as posters mentioning Cody Simon being what ND already has in LBers, ND has 3 HS All Americans (Army or UA) in Asmar Bilal, Shayne Simon and Jack Lamb and I’d love to see ND get another one with Cody Simon if he presumably gets the call. I don’t think Cullen Coleman is a bad prospect and I think he’s actually quite good, but I just don’t see him as a better LBer than Cody Simon or a better RB than Tirek Murphy. Now if those guys choose other schools then I’d happily sign him up but I’d put him lower on the board than those two. The most interesting part left in recruiting for me will be to see how the DB class shakes out. ND is in it or has visits planned with a ton of guys. Clark Phillips III, Chris Thompson Jr, Lathan Ransom, Enzo Jennings, Jordan Morant, Kristian Story, Jerrin Thompson, Jahari Rogers, Ethan Pouncey, Cameron Martinez, Christian Gonzalez, Landen Bartleson, and Lovie Jenkins. That’s a hell of a list of dudes that could like ND enough to commit once July rolls around and those OV’s are all done.

 

[T-Boone]

Who knows who ends up being a better player, but athletes with position flexibility should be at a premium.

Maybe we should be going after those 6-4 Boykin type wide receivers and converting them to LBer. What about Micah Jones? Give him a go.

 

[CanadalovesND]

Coleman has some big time offers. Ohio State and Alabama, for starters. I don’t think we should view him lightly.

There is a trend on here, or at least a way of thinking, that a prospects offer list speaks more highly than rating. A prospect can have ratings all over the place from the three big recruiting sites (ESPN, rivals, 24/7) but the offer lists are consistent.

Big time schools see him as a big time prospect. Whether it be at RB or LB. I don’t think we should undervalue him because we are fixated on Cody Simon or Tirek Murphy.

He’ll have one position if he were to play here. He may switch from offence to defence, or vice versa after his first or second season, but he has the athleticism, and if developed, he will have the talent to contribute for this team.

We have the depth at both positions, LB and RB, that if we want Coleman, we can figure out his place at some point. There is no need to rush to plug him in somewhere. Get him in uniform, see where his naturally athletic ability translates to, offense or defense, and four or five years down the road, than we can bring up the discussion if BK and staff were right to pass on Simon and Murphy for him.

 

[Irish#1]

Coleman has some big time offers. Ohio State and Alabama, for starters. I don’t think we should view him lightly.

There is a trend on here, or at least a way of thinking, that a prospects offer list speaks more highly than rating. A prospect can have ratings all over the place from the three big recruiting sites (ESPN, rivals, 24/7) but the offer lists are consistent.

Big time schools see him as a big time prospect. Whether it be at RB or LB. I don’t think we should undervalue him because we are fixated on Cody Simon or Tirek Murphy.

He’ll have one position if he were to play here. He may switch from offence to defence, or vice versa after his first or second season, but he has the athleticism, and if developed, he will have the talent to contribute for this team.

We have the depth at both positions, LB and RB, that if we want Coleman, we can figure out his place at some point. There is no need to rush to plug him in somewhere. Get him in uniform, see where his naturally athletic ability translates to, offense or defense, and four or five years down the road, than we can bring up the discussion if BK and staff were right to pass on Simon and Murphy for him.

+1

 

[OCIrish]

I'm old enough to remember when Lou Holtz brought in the best athlete's and out them in a position to make plays for the team, and many of them changed positions multiple times as players. Jeff Burris was originally brought in as a RB, and his move to FS worked out just fine. Reggie Brooks was brought in as a DB, and his last season for the Irish, I believe he ended up with a 7.6 ypc a average. Get the athlete on campus and find a spot for them. Can never have enough athlete's!!!!

 

[BobbyMac]

Got a CB from Canada.

Fong/Loy/Couv & a random Wiscy guy make it 4-0 for ND

Where are the ISD & Rivals guys at on him?

*** Freeman has him to ND also

** There's only one FC from Rivals and it's to ND from a Rutgers guy.

Is he the next guy to pop?

 

[Ricochet]

He's a kid I really want, IMO he'sa special athlete and want him to come to ND as an athlete and let the chips fall where they may about his future position. He's a kid that will RS his first season and will without question be a special teams monster of a player early in his career but he could a great RB, Buck or Drop.

I just want him at ND no matter the position but I must say I would love to him have a real chance at RB for nothing more than ND doesn't have a RB like him and would create another dynamic like Tyree will in the ND backfield.

 

[IrishFanForever23]

Just picked up a Stanford offer. Wiltfong expects them to be in it.
https://247sports.com/college/stanford/Board/102342/Contents/New-2020-offer-in-New-York-132360021/

 

[rtrn2glory]

Yep another one the tree gets involved in. What was possibly a lock a week ago just got interesting

 

[arrowryan]

Stanford is well on their way to being the floor mats they used to be. If he wants to play in front of 20 fans on Saturdays then so be it.

 

[NDIrish88]

Does anyone know if he is open to the idea of playing defense?

 

[IrishFanForever23]

Does anyone know if he is open to the idea of playing defense?

Yes, I’m pretty sure he is. I believe ND even told him he’ll get a shot at RB, but would move to defense if it doesn’t work out.

 

[NDinMI]

I think he’s off the board now. Seems like it’d be him Loy tweeted about no longer being on the board because immediately after that he threw in a ? CB. Not sure if it was mutual or cut off by one end. Great athlete, but I’m not too upset about this one if it’s true.

 

[stpeteirish]

Loy switched his CB to ?

 

[clashmore_mike]

https://irishsportsdaily.com/forums/1/topics/36256

Mutually agreed to part ways.

 

[rtrn2glory]

Hmm... Wonder what happened here.