'20 MI DE Braiden McGregor (Michigan Verbal)

[GBdomer]

O man, well arlight then. 35 years of coaching defense to twelve games settles that argument.

 

[condoms SUCk]

So sounds like we are in great shape with landing Tryee on the 23rd but most likely going to lose McG to scUM on the 24th?
1 out of 2 ain't bad, we are in good shape on the D-line so losing out on McG sucks but not crippling.
Landing Tryee will help ease the pain though, definitely need speed at the RB position.

 

[GBdomer]

I wouldn't trade Clark Lea for anyone right now he is a hell of a coach and a really good recruiter.

I will take Brent Venables then

Really? A hell of a coach? Can I ask how or why? You don't think having guys like Jerry Tillery, Drue Tranquill, Julian Love, Tevon Coney and Alohi Gillman in his first year is a nice start? I remember hearing the same shit about Bob Diaco, fuck Lax started a thread about building a statue of BVG after the Michigan game.

Not saying at all Clark Lea is Bob Diaco or BVG. I am saying let's see what he does this year and after another 12 games you guys can decide if you are taking him over all the DC's in the country.

 

[rtrn2glory]

I will take Brent Venables then

Really? A hell of a coach? Can I ask how or why? You don't think having guys like Jerry Tillery, Drue Tranquill, Julian Love, Tevon Coney and Alohi Gillman in his first year is a nice start? I remember hearing the same shit about Bob Diaco, fuck Lax started a thread about building a statue of BVG after the Michigan game.

Not saying at all Clark Lea is Bob Diaco or BVG. I am saying let's see what he does this year and after another 12 games you guys can decide if you are taking him over all the DC's in the country.

to your point then would it be fair to say that brown underachieved with the group that he had last year?

 

[GBdomer]

to your point then would it be fair to say that brown underachieved with the group that he had last year?

Dawg, he had like the number one ranked defense in the country for the LAST 3 YEARS. So sure they got the air lifted out of them in the second half of that OSU game. I mean if you watched the game OSU just killed them on crosses after cross after cross. It was all about matchups and speed and that game. You aren't gonna out athlete OSU, two teams in the country can. So yes, I do put some of the blame on Don Brown in that game. From the scheme standpoint( yes, it was an awful game plan) If you wanna put it all on him fine, the Florida game? Who cares? I mean it's a great game but nobody remembers or will remember the damn Peach Bowl or whatever.


So underachieved? Maybe in the final two games but it doesn't take away from what he's done since the moment he got there. he got hundo dropped on him in the last two games of the season so it's easy to sit here and say he sucks and fuck Michigan and all that. But can't take away what this man has done in his career.

 

[Luckylucci]

Well, it works both way. Brown's defense at UM has been absolutely shredded on multiple accounts. When he lost all of his "talent" in the bowl game, they got an all time ass whooping. With all that talent a few weeks before that, they got another all time ass whooping from OSU. They gave up 103 pts. in their last two games last year, lol.

They also ended 2017 giving up 24, 31, and 26 in 3 straight losses.

In fact, I'd say his UM defenses have been largely overrated feasting on garbage teams and getting beat by good opponents. And doing so with a lot of "NFL" talent.

 

[rtrn2glory]

Dawg, he had like the number one ranked defense in the country for the LAST 3 YEARS. So sure they got the air lifted out of them in the second half of that OSU game. I mean if you watched the game OSU just killed them on crosses after cross after cross. It was all about matchups and speed and that game. You aren't gonna out athlete OSU, two teams in the country can. So yes, I do put some of the blame on Don Brown in that game. From the scheme standpoint( yes, it was an awful game plan) If you wanna put it all on him fine, the Florida game? Who cares? I mean it's a great game but nobody remembers or will remember the damn Peach Bowl or whatever.


So underachieved? Maybe in the final two games but it doesn't take away from what he's done since the moment he got there.

fair enough.

but to me he's beaten up on some pretty inferior teams and looked good, but when the chips were on the table against the big boys he's gotten beaten up a bit.

 

[zelezo vlk]

I'm certainly very comfortable with Lea, but I'm with GB. Anybody in the country? Gimme Venables. Hell I might want Jimmy Lake, or Pete Kwiatkowski.

Lea is still learning, we should be happy that he's done well so far, but let's not crown him just yet.

 

[GBdomer]

fair enough.

but to me he's beaten up on some pretty inferior teams and looked good, but when the chips were on the table against the big boys he's gotten beaten up a bit.

Ya, you are damn right maybe if Harbaugh's offense gave them something to work with. You can't put this ALL on Don Brown. Harbaughs offense are terrible and he hangs on this I made Andrew Luck BS when in all reality Oliver Luck had more more to do with Luck being Luck. When it comes to the problems at Michigan Don Brown is the last.

 

[Luckylucci]

Dawg, he had like the number one ranked defense in the country for the LAST 3 YEARS. So sure they got the air lifted out of them in the second half of that OSU game. I mean if you watched the game OSU just killed them on crosses after cross after cross. It was all about matchups and speed and that game. You aren't gonna out athlete OSU, two teams in the country can. So yes, I do put some of the blame on Don Brown in that game. From the scheme standpoint( yes, it was an awful game plan) If you wanna put it all on him fine, the Florida game? Who cares? I mean it's a great game but nobody remembers or will remember the damn Peach Bowl or whatever.


So underachieved? Maybe in the final two games but it doesn't take away from what he's done since the moment he got there.

2018, in the S&P+ defensive rankings they finished 9th. One spot ahead of ND. Both teams loaded with NFL talent and UM had more "top tier" talent.
2017, they finished 5th.
2016, they finished 3rd.

So, using opponent adjusted S&P rankings, at no point, in the last 3 years have they had the #1 ranked defense.

 

[IrishFanJMercy]

Michigan's defense made Wimbush look like a stud in the first game if it wasn't for us stalling who knows how many points ND would have put up, Book would have scored 35-40 on them

 

[NDMIA]

First off, I'm picturing what McGregor would do if he made a list of pros and cons in Michigan and Notre Dame. I think Don Brown would likely be a better sell in terms of his experience, his past success, and his defense rankings over the past 3 decades. I actually like having Clark Lea better right now, but idk how Brown isn't an easier sell as a DCoordinator than Clark Lea who's run a successful defense for 1 season.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

I'm certainly very comfortable with Lea, but I'm with GB. Anybody in the country? Gimme Venables. Hell I might want Jimmy Lake, or Pete Kwiatkowski.

Lea is still learning, we should be happy that he's done well so far, but let's not crown him just yet.

If you want to crown them, then crown their ass! But, they are who we thought they were, and we let them off the hook!

 

[Luckylucci]

First off, I'm picturing what McGregor would do if he made a list of pros and cons in Michigan and Notre Dame. I think Don Brown would likely be a better sell in terms of his experience, his past success, and his defense rankings over the past 3 decades. I actually like having Clark Lea better right now, but idk how Brown isn't an easier sell as a DCoordinator than Clark Lea who's run a successful defense for 1 season.

And I would agree with that. But you can't put an asterisk (because of talent) next to Lea's first season but then proclaim how great Brown has been at UM without doing the same. They were loaded last year. Also, they've got worse each of the last 3 years. 11.1, 11.8, and 14.3. Not a good trend for a team that was a Playoff contender based on the insane amount of talent they brought back last season.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

And I would agree with that. But you can't put an asterisk (because of talent) next to Lea's first season but then proclaim how great Brown has been at UM without doing the same. They were loaded last year. Also, they've got worse each of the last 3 years. 11.1, 11.8, and 14.3. Not a good trend for a team that was a Playoff contender based on the insane amount of talent they brought back last season.

Athlon's preseason all B1G team just came out and on defense UM had two first-teamers, two third-teamers and one fourth-teamer.

Their 2018 preseason all B1G had 6 UM players on the first team. Their post season list had 5 first-teamers.

It will be interesting to see if the apparent talent fall-off manifests itself.

 

[Luckylucci]

Athlon's preseason all B1G team just came out and on defense UM had two first-teamers, two third-teamers and one fourth-teamer.

Their 2018 preseason all B1G had 6 UM players on the first team. Their post season list had 5 first-teamers.

It will be interesting to see if the apparent talent fall-off manifests itself.

Good post and thanks for sharing. It will certainly be an interesting season for both DC's. Both will, more than likely, regress so it will come down to how much. I think Book could hang a 40 burger on Brown in AA this season, I guess we'll see.

 

[NDMIA]

And I would agree with that. But you can't put an asterisk (because of talent) next to Lea's first season but then proclaim how great Brown has been at UM without doing the same. They were loaded last year. Also, they've got worse each of the last 3 years. 11.1, 11.8, and 14.3. Not a good trend for a team that was a Playoff contender based on the insane amount of talent they brought back last season.

So Lea had an excellent first year. Any time you finish in the top 10 in the S&P+ in defense, you've had an amazing year defensively. Don Brown as a DCoordinator has had 5 top 10 defenses in the last 7 seasons. Yes, his defense wasn't amazing last year considering the talent they had, but didn't he recruit most of that talent? Also, the crazy one to me is he had a top 10 defense at BC and at UConn which is absurd considering the lack of talent at UConn. I think he's a top 10-15 DC in the country and if Clark Lea left and he knocked on Brian Kelly's door then I don't think it would be a bad idea to take a long look at him even though he's getting close to his Medicare needs lol. Now I think if Clark Lea is able to repeat the kind of success that ND had this past season or even come close to it, then I think he'll be shooting up the list of best DC's in the country. I don't want Clark Lea to ever leave and I hope he stays for a long long time, but I just think Don Brown is a really really good defensive coordinator and, yes, he got crushed by Ohio State last season, has gotten worse in defensive ratings every season in the S&P+, but he's got Michigan as 1 of 4 teams in FBS football who've had top 10 ranked defenses in all of the last 3 seasons (Michigan, Alabama, Clemson, and LSU).

S&P+ Defensive Rankings
2018 - 9 MICH
2017 - 5 MICH
2016 - 3 MICH
2015 - 5 BC
2014 - 45 BC
2013 - 68 BC
2012 - 10 UCONN
2011 - 39 UCONN
2010 - 23 MARY
2009 - 55 MARY

 

[Irish#1]

Well, it works both way. Brown's defense at UM has been absolutely shredded on multiple accounts. When he lost all of his "talent" in the bowl game, they got an all time ass whooping. With all that talent a few weeks before that, they got another all time ass whooping from OSU. They gave up 103 pts. in their last two games last year, lol.

They also ended 2017 giving up 24, 31, and 26 in 3 straight losses.

In fact, I'd say his UM defenses have been largely overrated feasting on garbage teams and getting beat by good opponents. And doing so with a lot of "NFL" talent.

fair enough.

but to me he's beaten up on some pretty inferior teams and looked good, but when the chips were on the table against the big boys he's gotten beaten up a bit.

Spot on.........Lat year alone, his D's reputation was built on cupcakes. When he hit the meat at the end, they underperformed greatly.

And I would agree with that. But you can't put an asterisk (because of talent) next to Lea's first season but then proclaim how great Brown has been at UM without doing the same. They were loaded last year. Also, they've got worse each of the last 3 years. 11.1, 11.8, and 14.3. Not a good trend for a team that was a Playoff contender based on the insane amount of talent they brought back last season.

Probably nitpicking with those numbers. Now if they went from 11.1 to 19.7 to 23.4, then I think there is a definite trend.

 

[IrishLax]

Don Brown has gotten exposed every time he has played a team with legitimate offensive talent... PSU 2017, OSU 2018, Florida 2018, etc. His scheme is entirely reliant on out-talenting the opponent. When they can't do that, then the vanilla man coverage doesn't work and the blitzes lead to huge plays.

They do extremely well by advanced stats because of how badly they shut down shit teams like Rutgers, etc. and how they create negative plays in those games. His percentile performances against elite competition are generally not good, and that's also got a huge correlation to why Michigan never wins shit in their conference.

 

[stlnd01]

Don Brown has gotten exposed every time he has played a team with legitimate offensive talent... PSU 2017, OSU 2018, Florida 2018, etc. His scheme is entirely reliant on out-talenting the opponent. When they can't do that, then the vanilla man coverage doesn't work and the blitzes lead to huge plays.

They do extremely well by advanced stats because of how badly they shut down shit teams like Rutgers, etc. and how they create negative plays in those games. His percentile performances against elite competition are generally not good, and that's also got a huge correlation to why Michigan never wins shit in their conference.

Well, someone tell Braiden Flippin’ McGregor. None of us are announcing for Michigan this week.

 

[DONTH8]

Well, someone tell Braiden Flippin’ McGregor. None of us are announcing for Michigan this week.

Rumor has it Naz will be.

 

[IrishFaninTX]

Though I want both, I think Tyree is the biggest need at the moment so as long as we get him on Thursday I'll be happy.

 

[T-Boone]

If he commits to Michigan, ND should keep on him.
Thats all I've got.

 

[AFisch86]

I’ll be at Penn National in Grantville (Hershey) for this game if anyone is around. I’m putting $1,000 on ND. I think we will blow them out to be honest.

 

[OhioIrish31]

If he commits to Michigan, ND should keep on him.
Thats all I've got.

Yup...this is where I am at.

 

[Irish#1]

If he commits to Michigan, ND should keep on him.
Thats all I've got.

Yup...this is where I am at.

 

[ThePiombino]

O man, well arlight then. 35 years of coaching defense to twelve games settles that argument.

BVG has a ton more games under his belt than CL. Would you rank him as a better DC as well? Tenure doesn't mean everything...

 

[NDMIA]

BVG has a ton more games under his belt than CL. Would you rank him as a better DC as well? Tenure doesn't mean everything...

Ur right. Tenure isn’t everything but it is definitely something. People are still hiring BVG even though he’s done little to nothing well in the last bunch of years as a DC but that EXPERIENCE thing is a hard thing to look past. If you combine Don Brown’s experience with his defense’s success and his recruiting ability then you have a desirable candidate. He’s head a top 10 defense in 5 of the last 7 seasons which is a ridiculous stat and that’s included at Boston College & UConn.

 

[irishnd31]

Is there an Assistant Coaches thread that this debate can be moved to? Although good debate, I kind of want McGregor updates.

 

[Me2SouthBend]

Is there an Assistant Coaches thread that this debate can be moved to? Although good debate, I kind of want McGregor updates.

What the hot chick said.