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koonja
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What are you waiting for ND...
'18 IA DE John Waggoner (Iowa Verbal)
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Ain't nobody got time for... "more big offers expected in time".
What do we want? OFFERS!
When do we want 'em? NOW!
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/UCLA?src=hash">#UCLA</a> the latest to offer Top100 4-star DE John Waggoner. Many more big offers expected in time <a href="https://t.co/k9tKijABL1">https://t.co/k9tKijABL1</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/johnwaggs_12">@johnwaggs_12</a></p>— Tom Loy (@TomLoy247) <a href="https://twitter.com/TomLoy247/status/832343853873106944">February 16, 2017</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
What do we want? OFFERS!
When do we want 'em? NOW!
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/UCLA?src=hash">#UCLA</a> the latest to offer Top100 4-star DE John Waggoner. Many more big offers expected in time <a href="https://t.co/k9tKijABL1">https://t.co/k9tKijABL1</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/johnwaggs_12">@johnwaggs_12</a></p>— Tom Loy (@TomLoy247) <a href="https://twitter.com/TomLoy247/status/832343853873106944">February 16, 2017</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Irish Man3
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Jesus, let's go staff. Don't slow play him because you have a good shot at him early.
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Greenore
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I respect and put my faith in the recruiting process. Things that make little sense to me in the present seem to largely reveal over time. I, for the life of me, cannot figure this recruitment out. Dang dambit, we need DE's... Waggonner wants an offer and he looks great.
Ok I'm just going to make a guess on why Elko has possibly not offered yet. In his defense the WDE is known as a drop DE. He plays and has skills more like a 3-4 OLB. Has to be able to rush the passer, set the edge against the run and just as important be comfortable in dropping into coverage. His DE at Wake was 6-3, 250 and very athletic. Guys like Hayes, Okwara, Wardlow, Ade all fit the profile. There has even been some talk of Jamir Jones playing there but I think he'll stay at LB. Waggoner seems to be more like a Trumbetti as a more traditional 4-3 WDE. He'll probably be a kid who ends up between 255-270 but probably not a kid who would be good dropping into coverage. Just a guess that he's not ideal for Elko's profile for the position.
woolybug25
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koonja
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Nd always shits the bed at least once per cycle for a no brain offer. Looks like this is this year's skid mark on recruiting.
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I actually think a majority of this is right, which is precisely why...........
I'd offer him. Because he'll end up at SDE. 6'4-5 270 is a perfect size for his SDE. In fact, that is almost the exact size of Duke E, his latest and quite successful SDE at Wake.
Greenore
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That's the goofy thing... to me at least. I absolutely LOVE everything they have done so far. I just want to get into the DE game. I'm guessing DWShade is likely correct but it's not going to help with my immediate anxiety. I'm freaking out over here! Cheers!
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Thank you.
I can buy that. In this class they want two ends and two interior DL. The twins take two of those spots, one inside and one outside. I think Malik Vann is #1 on their DE list and he could be a carbon copy of Duke E.
Nothing like Diaco who ran a plain vanilla defense. Elko has a far more exotic scheme giving the offense multiple looks and making it difficult for an offense to identify where the pressure is coming from.
Greenore
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LOL!!! The pace has been set and I can't keep up!
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Yep, looks like we've had so much momentum lately that everyone expects these offers to be shot out like a Gatling Gun.
I think he was referring more to Diaco's recruiting than his scheme. If a kid didn't fit Diaco's mold, he wouldn't offer.
Domina Nostra
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The kid is experiencing the issue with saying a school is your dream school: if they think you're going to comittt once you offered, they're going to take their time.
woolybug25
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As Irish1 said, I was referring to Diaco's recruiting strategy, which was criminally idiotic.
The longer it goes on, the more unlikely this scenario seems to be. Regardless of ND being a "dream school" he's getting legit offers. At some point, he has to do what's best for him. Which means we can be left holding the bag if he is unwilling to decommit.
I simply believe that if you have low hanging fruit, you take it. I don't get why so many coaches would prefer a project 3 star with the right measurables over an athletic stud with a bunch of tools. Adjust to get the most talented recruits on your team.
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Bogtrotter07
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So, my question is this. Is strong and wide equivalent?
In some defenses it is interchangeable, but I don't think that is always true.
With offenses, the strong side can be to the short side of the field. Right?
When I think strong side defense end, I think of a bigger, hand in the dirt defender.
When I think wide side, I think of a hybrid OLB kind of player.
Regardless, what I have heard is that some sources don't see Waggoner as having as high an upside as some others on the board. I have heard that they want to get to know him and see more of him before they offer. But that's kind of like quicksilver.
I have more certainty of who would be more likely to commit in the next week or two, than I would about anything with this kids recruitment.
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Yes, because we see this movie every year. Doesn't matter if it's Oliver Martin/Russ Yeast/others last year or Marquez Callaway the year before that or Justin Tranquill the year before that (who is widely considered an NFL caliber player a free safety... a position of dire need and terrible depth for YEARS) or Sam Hubbard the year before that (who Diaco was too lazy to even watch his film while OSU jumped on him immediately... Diaco offered at end of the cycle) or like a dozen different kids in the '13/'12 classes. This is off the top of my head.
When someone really wants to be here and they're a quality prospect you should add them every time and then swing for big fish towards the end of the cycle if there's some super premium player that like you like better. The kids that want to be here tend to be the most successful... guys like the Martins, Julian Love, etc... even if they're not super high star guys. Michigan has done this really well under Harbaugh filling up all of their depth needs and then recruiting guys like Rashan Gary down to the wire. It makes potential misses much less painful than striking out on a guy like Demetris Robertson at the 11th hour.
I will say that with this class we're absolutely casting the correct type of net early and pushing hard for recruits which is a departure from the lackadaisical attitude that the staff took at the start of some previous classes. So I'm not going to criticize them about Waggoner yet... but it's certainly a situation to watch.
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koonja
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Funny how we're targeting any WR recruit with speed this year, and Callaway last year was a speedster, 95 rated 4-star recruit, with offers everywhere, and wanted to come to ND.
But we said 'meh'.
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The funniest part by far is when they asked him some question after signing day about what school Demetris Robertson should pick and he was like "oh definitely Notre Dame, they set you up for life. Love that place."
But our staff was like "nah, pass..." Yeah, who needs a guy like this? lol.
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Rack Em
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We're sure as hell don't need anyone who WON'T FAIR CATCH THAT PUNT!
woolybug25
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Has there ever been, or ever will be, a bigger miss than Sam Hubbard? How our staff failed to get a kid actually committed to our school for a different sport is beyond me. Who needs big, athletic defensive ends, amirite?
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Defensive ends athletic enough that they could probably play safety.
Don't forget to really make it hurt when we talk about it.
zelezo vlk
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Defensive ends athletic enough to actually cover guys when they drop in zones?
woolybug25
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Domina Nostra
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What they prefer is the 5-star kid who is flirting with them. But I totally agree, you take the kid. He looks good and wants to be here. That makes a huge difference.
You hear this refrain constantly from the recruiting gurus: "Getting ___________ in the class at a position of need really helps. Now they can take their time and target some really elite kids." We did that with Robert Beal and the 3-DBs last year.
But guess what? We don't have anyone until NSD! We DO NOT have Derrick Allen. We may sign him, but we may not. Keep recruiting everyone who you have a legit shot with, and take everyone who is a legit take, whether or not you think you have the room!
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Yeah, straight talk, the craziest thing is that because he was lacrosse-first athlete playing midfield he was lean in HS and literally played FS at a high level on his very good HS team. The dude had a DE frame with (almost) DB athleticism. That's literally the perfect fit for Diaco's jumbo OLBs. But Diaco wouldn't even look at this film.
If I remember correctly, the way his recruitment played out was absurd:
1. He spent offseason time playing lacrosse, so he did no football camps.
2. His coach says "look, I think you could be a really good football player, where would you be interested in playing football? Let's send your film to those places and just see what they say."
3. Nobody really takes him seriously as a football recruit until people start seeing this film, and then literally every school he sent it to evaluates it and goes "holy crap imagine what this kid could do if he fills out his frame..." and offers him immediately ... everybody, that is, except for Notre Dame. The school he is currently committed to for another sport, and could've instantly locked him down by offering a football scholarship when they first received the film.
4. After getting an offer from Ohio State and talking to the coaches there, he realizes that he has NFL potential and decides he's going to make that his primary focus. He checks in one more time with Notre Dame, and they completely blow him off, so then he commits to Ohio State.
5. After Diaco misses on everyone else, he casually gets around to evaluating him and extends an offer months and months too late. The Hubbard's response is basically "are you serious?"
6. Diaco leaves for UCONN and we hire BVG. People then realize that Diaco was phoning it in the entire year (and also screwed up the '13 recruiting somewhat) and we have huge recruitment holes at multiple positions including ILB, DT, DE, and S. We try desperately to fill them heading into signing day.