'17 CA WR Osiris St. Brown (Stanford Verbal)

[GBdomer]

I wish we somehow end up landing this kid if you compare the two.
ND is where his brother is at, better exposure on a national level, more games on prime time, academics are even with Stanford, gets to play in front of a a sell out crowd.

Stanford: he gets to play right away, closer to home. I wonder why he would commit to Stanford though even he hasn't been accepted yet?

Even academics with Stanford? You just pull shat out of anywhere.

Agreed with you on playing time but I think if it was up to EQ he would also be at Stanford. I forgot if be got in or not but I remember they were the top school for the longest time

 

[dad4aa]

He'll be accepted to Stanford. It's a lie that it's "very hard" to get in there... they push kids to get the best test scores and grades that they can because many in the administration are embarrassed by their athletes so they want the best academic profile they can get, but at the end of the day if you're good enough they'll take you with a 1000 SAT and mediocre GPA. And once you get there, the classes are as easy as UNC's fake ones.

I usually don't doubt anything you post, but then why was Demetris Robinson never accepted when he was accepted at Notre Dame?

 

[tussin]

I usually don't doubt anything you post, but then why was Demetris Robinson never accepted when he was accepted at Notre Dame?

Pretty sure he couldn't hit even the lower SAT requirements.

 

[Irish#1]

OSB is a tree. Red flags for OSB popped up early. The training issue with ESB just reaffirms.

I will say that the athlete has to share in the responsibility of getting to the training table on a regular basis to make sure they maintain their weight. you can lead a horse to water, but.........

 

[dad4aa]

Pretty sure he couldn't hit even the lower SAT requirements.

So Notre Dame's admission requirements are that low? Word was he was cleared through ND admissions.

 

[tussin]

So Notre Dame's admission requirements are that low? Word was he was cleared through ND admissions.

IIRC, their SAT requirements are lower than Stanford's. I think ND is especially strict with GPA, course requirements, and behavior issues.

These are just my gatherings from following these recruitments for a few years. Lax would know more about this than I.

 

[irishandy]

Fingers crossed that he chooses ND!

 

[GBdomer]

Not gonna happen Andy, you can go ahead and put Stanford verbal by his name.....for now

Wonder where he would rank on Trinity's list because if he doesn't have him on the top 5 we aren't missing out on anything

 

[fightingirish26]

Not gonna happen Andy, you can go ahead and put Stanford verbal by his name.....for now

Wonder where he would rank on Trinity's list because if he doesn't have him on the top 5 we aren't missing out on anything

Trinity? ...THE irishtrinity?? Where tf did he go?

 

[GBdomer]

Trinity? ...THE irishtrinity?? Where tf did he go?

I don't know man but fck I miss him

 

[ThePiombino]

Prayer thread ... for Trinity?

 

[Irish#1]

Trinity? ...THE irishtrinity?? Where tf did he go?

He probably found out there is a real world outside of ND football! lol

 

[Bogtrotter07]

There is?!?!?!

 

[IrishLax]

I usually don't doubt anything you post, but then why was Demetris Robinson never accepted when he was accepted at Notre Dame?

Couple things:
1. I'm not saying Stanford isn't harder to get in to than other schools. It is. I'm saying it's a lie that it's objectively "very hard" to get in for football players... any player that is a below average student can get in. There's lots of evidence to this, but I'll save that for a later post if you want it rather than clog this one up.

2. Robertson wasn't past ND admissions. In fact, we were pushing him to retake his SAT in the months leading up to NSD as much if not more than Stanford was initially. Shaw only jumped back in late to try to keep him from signing with ND. ND lets kids sign all on NSD all the time who aren't completely clear... most of the time they work out, other times (see: Nile Sykes, Bo Wallace) they don't and we ask them to go elsewhere. So don't take our all-out push for Robertson and sending him a LOI as a sign that he was accepted.

3. The best way to describe schools is to put them into tiers... on the lowest tier, Cal, USC, Oregon, almost the entire SEC, etc. will take most anyone that passes the NCAA minimums. Then there is a middle tier with schools like Wisconsin, UVA, etc. that have a low bar but it's certainly not an open door policy. There are definitely some "no takes." And then there is a tier with Stanford, Notre Dame, Duke, etc. where they all have legitimate admissions standards that players have to hit that are significantly harder than what the NCAA requires as well as specific course credits players must take. Each is a unique animal. Notre Dame's infamous foreign language requirement is always a big barrier, but in general ND is much more apt to make an "exception" on GPA/scores for a kid they think is a good fit whereas I don't know a single case off the top of my head of Stanford taking someone below their minimum 1000 SAT, 3.0 GPA (but that's not exactly a high bar, is it?)

4. Stanford used to have much more stringent restrictions. Harbaugh got them relaxed. Since then, it's basically propaganda how "difficult" it is to get into Stanford. They use "difficult admissions to":
A. Cut kids late in the cycle they don't want (see: Kain Colter)
B. Push kids away from visiting during the season and seeing how horrendous their game day experience is (see: "come visit after the season once you've been accepted)
C. As an excuse for not offering kids until late in the cycle (see: like ten kids every single year)
D. As a catch-all excuse by coaches to say "we have it so much harder here because we can't recruit kids others can" (see: Shaw's recent thing about satellite camps)

5. Once you get to Stanford, there is rampant grade inflation in regular classes and there used to be a published list of easy "jock" classes they'd herd their players into to keep them eligible. Those easy classes still exist, players are now just verbally referred by an adviser instead of being handed the list after they got caught and embarrassed.

 

[dad4aa]

Couple things:
1. I'm not saying Stanford isn't harder to get in to than other schools. It is. I'm saying it's a lie that it's objectively "very hard" to get in for football players... any player that is a below average student can get in. There's lots of evidence to this, but I'll save that for a later post if you want it rather than clog this one up.

2. Robertson wasn't past ND admissions. In fact, we were pushing him to retake his SAT in the months leading up to NSD as much if not more than Stanford was initially. Shaw only jumped back in late to try to keep him from signing with ND. ND lets kids sign all on NSD all the time who aren't completely clear... most of the time they work out, other times (see: Nile Sykes, Bo Wallace) they don't and we ask them to go elsewhere. So don't take our all-out push for Robertson and sending him a LOI as a sign that he was accepted.

3. The best way to describe schools is to put them into tiers... on the lowest tier, Cal, USC, Oregon, almost the entire SEC, etc. will take most anyone that passes the NCAA minimums. Then there is a middle tier with schools like Wisconsin, UVA, etc. that have a low bar but it's certainly not an open door policy. There are definitely some "no takes." And then there is a tier with Stanford, Notre Dame, Duke, etc. where they all have legitimate admissions standards that players have to hit that are significantly harder than what the NCAA requires as well as specific course credits players must take. Each is a unique animal. Notre Dame's infamous foreign language requirement is always a big barrier, but in general ND is much more apt to make an "exception" on GPA/scores for a kid they think is a good fit whereas I don't know a single case off the top of my head of Stanford taking someone below their minimum 1000 SAT, 3.0 GPA (but that's not exactly a high bar, is it?)

4. Stanford used to have much more stringent restrictions. Harbaugh got them relaxed. Since then, it's basically propaganda how "difficult" it is to get into Stanford. They use "difficult admissions to":
A. Cut kids late in the cycle they don't want (see: Kain Colter)
B. Push kids away from visiting during the season and seeing how horrendous their game day experience is (see: "come visit after the season once you've been accepted)
C. As an excuse for not offering kids until late in the cycle (see: like ten kids every single year)
D. As a catch-all excuse by coaches to say "we have it so much harder here because we can't recruit kids others can" (see: Shaw's recent thing about satellite camps)

5. Once you get to Stanford, there is rampant grade inflation in regular classes and there used to be a published list of easy "jock" classes they'd herd their players into to keep them eligible. Those easy classes still exist, players are now just verbally referred by an adviser instead of being handed the list after they got caught and embarrassed.

Thanks for the info Lax, excellent as always. In regards to the bolded, this is the first I heard of this. During the whole recruiting fiasco of Robinson, someone asked if admission would be a problem for ND and another person replied that he had already cleared ND admissions. Your explanation makes more since. rep you when I can

 

[IrishLax]

Thanks for the info Lax, excellent as always. In regards to the bolded, this is the first I heard of this. During the whole recruiting fiasco of Robinson, someone asked if admission would be a problem for ND and another person replied that he had already cleared ND admissions. Your explanation makes more since. rep you when I can

I could be wrong on this, but I'm not sure he ever even completed an application to ND. I know that at least in the winter he hadn't even submitted it yet, and he went past the "deadline" we had for submission that coaches communicated to him.

 

[tussin]

Once you get to Stanford, there is rampant grade inflation in regular classes and there used to be a published list of easy "jock" classes they'd herd their players into to keep them eligible. Those easy classes still exist, players are now just verbally referred by an adviser instead of being handed the list after they got caught and embarrassed.

I don't understand how a similar list of "easy" courses doesn't exist at ND (written or referential). I know the responsibility ultimately falls with the student, but can't the staff do a better job of guiding the kids to courses that objectively match their capabilities? I went to a strong academic school, and have close friends that went to HYP -- the "easy" courses were public knowledge in both cases.

Is there a strict curriculum freshman year that doesn't allow students to tailor their courses? I notice that most of the academic issues at ND happen with underclassmen. If 1.8 GPA is really the minimum, students should be able to find ONE class to get a B+ in to give themselves a cushion.

 

[dublinirish]

Somebody with the info care to divulge what kind of classes the kids in the TV, Theatre production degree have to take? Seems like a bunch of Team Revo kids were doing that major and none of them seemed anyways academic

 

[IrishLax]

I don't understand how a similar list of "easy" courses doesn't exist at ND (written or referential). I know the responsibility ultimately falls with the student, but can't the staff do a better job of guiding the kids to courses that objectively match their capabilities? I went to a strong academic school, and have close friends that went to HYP -- the "easy" courses were public knowledge in both cases.

Easy classes exist at ND. Intro to Jazz, etc. And many of them are absolutely stacked with athletes. The problem is ND doesn't have joke majors, and the coursework requirements for graduation are such that you can't fill your entire schedule with them per what ND makes you do to graduate in four years.

At Stanford, the list they published for a decade had oodles of classes you could sign up for many of which didn't count towards graduation at all. So you could load up on those to boost your GPA while taking the bare minimum courses to graduate and having no chance of failure because Stanford gives people Bs in many classes for just showing up. Ergo, everyone stays eligible, and like ND most everyone graduates.

Is there a strict curriculum freshman year that doesn't allow students to tailor their courses? I notice that most of the academic issues at ND happen with underclassmen. If 1.8 GPA is really the minimum, students should be able to find ONE class to get a B+ in to give themselves a cushion.

The freshman year of studies program at ND... I honestly don't know how much it has changed since I did it, but yeah I think you're hitting the nail on the head with the issue. Not only are they loaded up with time commitment problems from football the moment they step on campus, but they've also got to adjust to college level classes, and none of the classes are "freebies." There's a lot of ways that a semester can totally get away from someone and they dig a hole they can't get out of.

After that, they can pick a major that suits them and fill in some electives where it's easier to get good grades.

 

[koonja]

IDK what they currently do, so I'm hesitant to say 'they need to do something'... Perhaps they're already doing everything they can. But I wish ND was able to identify kids at risk of GPA issues like Alize earlier, and then get them all of the help they need. When this happens, it's bad for the kid, it's bad for ND the academic institution, and it is bad for the football team. Kicking them out for the year does not help anyone. They need to root cause this stuff earlier in the process, and identify and address warning signs first semester.

Edit: Just realized this isn't Alize's thread.

 

[rtrn2glory]

Siap... Any time frame for exact time he'll be announcing tomorrow?

 

[GoIrish41]

IDK what they currently do, so I'm hesitant to say 'they need to do something'... Perhaps they're already doing everything they can. But I wish ND was able to identify kids at risk of GPA issues like Alize earlier, and then get them all of the help they need. When this happens, it's bad for the kid, it's bad for ND the academic institution, and it is bad for the football team. Kicking them out for the year does not help anyone. They need to root cause this stuff earlier in the process, and identify and address warning signs first semester.

Edit: Just realized this isn't Alize's thread.

Lol

 

[calvegas04]

If he doesn't pick ND please lock this thread ASAP

 

[ND Fan Vancouver]

He isn't coming to NDFB. Oh well. You can't win em all.

 

[Henges24]

If he doesn't pick ND please lock this thread ASAP

May as well lock it now then, lol.

He's going to commit to Stanford this weekend and says he will not be taking any other "visits". He will come to ND to watch ESB play at least once this season. It won't qualify as a "visit" to him/Stanford but that is when Kelly will have his chance to flip OSB. I think this may play out to be a bit interesting by February.

 

[House16]

I don't understand how a similar list of "easy" courses doesn't exist at ND (written or referential). I know the responsibility ultimately falls with the student, but can't the staff do a better job of guiding the kids to courses that objectively match their capabilities? I went to a strong academic school, and have close friends that went to HYP -- the "easy" courses were public knowledge in both cases.

Is there a strict curriculum freshman year that doesn't allow students to tailor their courses? I notice that most of the academic issues at ND happen with underclassmen. If 1.8 GPA is really the minimum, students should be able to find ONE class to get a B+ in to give themselves a cushion.

Oh there absolutely is. Common human diseases is known as common human athletes around campus. There are plenty of classes that are well-known as the athlete classes, even if they aren't published as such.

 

[House16]

Easy classes exist at ND. Intro to Jazz, etc. And many of them are absolutely stacked with athletes. The problem is ND doesn't have joke majors, and the coursework requirements for graduation are such that you can't fill your entire schedule with them per what ND makes you do to graduate in four years.

At Stanford, the list they published for a decade had oodles of classes you could sign up for many of which didn't count towards graduation at all. So you could load up on those to boost your GPA while taking the bare minimum courses to graduate and having no chance of failure because Stanford gives people Bs in many classes for just showing up. Ergo, everyone stays eligible, and like ND most everyone graduates.



The freshman year of studies program at ND... I honestly don't know how much it has changed since I did it, but yeah I think you're hitting the nail on the head with the issue. Not only are they loaded up with time commitment problems from football the moment they step on campus, but they've also got to adjust to college level classes, and none of the classes are "freebies." There's a lot of ways that a semester can totally get away from someone and they dig a hole they can't get out of.

After that, they can pick a major that suits them and fill in some electives where it's easier to get good grades.

Ehh I'd argue there are a ton of freebies in FYS. Your "soft science" is an auto A for showing up, as is your sem class. Honestly not sure how you can fall below a 2.0 freshman year if you physically attend every class.

 

[gkIrish]

Ehh I'd argue there are a ton of freebies in FYS. Your "soft science" is an auto A for showing up, as is your sem class. Honestly not sure how you can fall below a 2.0 freshman year if you physically attend every class.

Not true at all. Some seminars are really tough. The science class is easy, true, but there are almost always curves. So no matter how easy it is, some will get Cs no matter what.

So athletes that would not have gotten into ND under normal circumstances already have a high chance of getting Cs in the "easy classes" by virtue of being relatively less smart.

 

[ThePiombino]

So what time does OSB announce for Stanford today?

 

[Booslum31]

If he doesn't pick ND please lock this thread ASAP

LOL..I agree