'16 CA QB Ian Book (Notre Dame Signed NLI)

[Junkhead]

Many of us have been down on him at times, myself included. Having a good line and an actual ground game has allowed him to up his game. I would be happy to have him back and he has been fun to watch this year.

 

[Irish YJ]

The questions they asked him were bad, didn't really ask him the sorts of questions that he could actually answer with anything but a canned boring answer

I was hoping for "Ian, what do you think about Trevor's hair"

 

[Junkhead]

I was hoping for "Ian, what do you think about Trevor's hair"

Trevor Lawrence, aka Mitch from Dazed and Confused.

 

[Irish YJ]

Trevor Lawrence, aka Mitch from Dazed and Confused.

 

[ulukinatme]

If it’s premature, tell me but I nominate Book as a Notre Dame Man.

Certainly. He overcame the hostility from the fan base, stuck it out and has achieved well beyond what was expected of him. He's cemented himself as one of the greats now, definitely a Notre Dame Man.

 

[rtrn2glory]

Easily top 3 QB of all time at ND. What a great career for someone we thought was just qb depth when signed. True winner that I hope has a few more in em

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

 

[arrowryan]

If anyone deserves the "Notre Dame Man" title on this site, it is Ian. Probably my favorite QB all-time to watch at ND and I'll take him over Quinn and Clausen. From people calling for his head in 2019 to beating the #1 team in the country, he's pretty much seen it all. Congrats Ian on such an amazing career, but we're not done yet.

 

[Old Man Mike]

.... top three QBs of All Time at ND? .... hmmm.



I've been super positive about Ian since his Spring Game as a second stringer behind someone everyone "loved." So, I get the riding high rapture. But ... top three QBs of all time at ND?

 

[NDohio]

Anyone who voted against it is insane. He's the all time winningest QB in Notre Dame history.

I would welcome him back with open arms. However, I don't think he should come back. His stock can never be higher and there really is no upside for him in coming back.

 

[rtrn2glory]

.... top three QBs of All Time at ND? .... hmmm.



I've been super positive about Ian since his Spring Game as a second stringer behind someone everyone "loved." So, I get the riding high rapture. But ... top three QBs of all time at ND?

Easily... Dudes a winner in a different era of football than our hayday. Without him on the team the last three years we may be in Michigan's shoes. Not to mention we can't act like we've had many good QBs. Actual QBs. Tony Rice played the position but was hardly a QB.

 

[BilboBaggins]

Anyone who voted against it is insane. He's the all time winningest QB in Notre Dame history.

This.

Plus a competent QB will make or break next year's offense. The WR corp will be improved, the RBs will be back, the OL shouldn't take much of a step back if two returning starters come back plus Lugg.

 

[ThePiombino]

Easily top 3 QB of all time at ND. What a great career for someone we thought was just qb depth when signed. True winner that I hope has a few more in em

By what metric just out of curiosity? Wins no doubt, but what else?

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

 

[ThePiombino]

This.



Plus a competent QB will make or break next year's offense. The WR corp will be improved, the RBs will be back, the OL shouldn't take much of a step back if two returning starters come back plus Lugg.

Will it? Assuming Austin, Lenzy, and Davis return as our starting WRs, we bring back a whopping 29 receptions to the starting positions. I'm assuming Davis does come back, but if he doesn't and let's say it's Keys instead, we return only 12 receptions. Not great.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Old Man Mike]

"Easily Top Three ..." hmmm "We can't act like we've had many good quarterbacks ..."

Meditation 1: Bertelli, Lujack, Williams, Hornung, Hanratty, Huarte, Montana ... "easily." off the top of my head.

Think for a moment ...: Theismann, Clements, Rice (strange thought process that thinks Rice "not a quarterback"), Quinn, Clausen, ... there are four Heisman's in there and Hanratty and Theismann were robbed.

... but yeh. Not only Top three , but Easily Top Three. After all, we can't act like we've had many good quarterbacks ....

yow

 

[rtrn2glory]

By what metric just out of curiosity? Wins no doubt, but what else?

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

Dual threat... Can run and pass... Good inside and outside of the pocket. He's a smaller Rick Mirer from what I can remember

 

[rtrn2glory]

"Easily Top Three ..." hmmm "We can't act like we've had many good quarterbacks ..."

Meditation 1: Bertelli, Lujack, Williams, Hornung, Hanratty, Huarte, Montana ... "easily." off the top of my head.

Think for a moment ...: Theismann, Clements, Rice (strange thought process that thinks Rice "not a quarterback"), Quinn, Clausen, ... there are four Heisman's in there and Hanratty and Theismann were robbed.

... but yeh. Not only Top three , but Easily Top Three. After all, we can't act like we've had many good quarterbacks ....

yow

Sorry I'm living in the 21st century... Appreciate what those your mentioned did for the brand but I guess I'm too invested in the present day game and how much you need to be able to do more at the position. He's a firm combination of run and pass. The QBs from the 50s 60s and 70s are just too outdated.

 

[ulukinatme]

"Easily Top Three ..." hmmm "We can't act like we've had many good quarterbacks ..."

Meditation 1: Bertelli, Lujack, Williams, Hornung, Hanratty, Huarte, Montana ... "easily." off the top of my head.

Think for a moment ...: Theismann, Clements, Rice (strange thought process that thinks Rice "not a quarterback"), Quinn, Clausen, ... there are four Heisman's in there and Hanratty and Theismann were robbed.

... but yeh. Not only Top three , but Easily Top Three. After all, we can't act like we've had many good quarterbacks ....

yow

He's been to the playoff once, hopefully twice coming up...but if Ian manages to win a NC what would your opinion of him be in relation to the others? He will have faced arguably more athletic teams than all those other guys faced other than Quinn and Clausen, and a NC is all that separates him from the others...hell, some of those guys don't even have a championship.

I understand how the game has changed greatly the last 30-50 years, and how comparing eras can be difficult given the circumstances. That said, achieving the kind of success Ian has had ND (Especially today given the restrictions and how teams across the board are more evenly matched than in the past) is hard to argue against.

 

[Old Man Mike]

To Uluk: My response was to the numbing comment that we can't claim to have had good quarterbacks and that Ian was "Easily" top three. (just to set the context.)

The "Those old guys didn't play the guys we have today" dismissal is for me a erroneous tack to base comparisons on.

Here are a few thoughts:
A. Those old guys played against the best guys the college game world, and not only won the games but also looked superior --- often superior to anyone around (i.e. Heismans or near-Heismans.) They were GREAT quarterbacks. They faced the best and they did everything called to do. Most of those old guys won championships.
B. Aw, them old guys didn't still didn't play teams like 2020Clemson. Yeh, correct. The health, dietary, youth conditioning levels of availability (plus steroids) weren't available to create Clemson. But they weren't available to create "Notre Dame" either. Hanratty and Huarte didn't roll their team out there with Clemson 2020 semi-pros to play midgets. These guys played the best guys of their age and did the best things asked of them and succeeded at top level effectiveness.

C. The REAL Bottomline is that comparisons of athletes developed in wildly different times or cultures is a bogus mental activity. Top Three --- in what? What are the criteria? Are the criteria definable to allow meaningful comparisons --- I'll bet if we did that on crude stats that Tommy Rees (God Bless him) would threaten the Top Three in a lot of lists.

If this is just meant to be time-consuming and basically nonsensical fun, OK, I'm fine with that. The comment that ND hasn't had many good quarterbacks was so far over the line that I responded.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Sorry I'm living in the 21st century... Appreciate what those your mentioned did for the brand but I guess I'm too invested in the present day game and how much you need to be able to do more at the position. He's a firm combination of run and pass. The QBs from the 50s 60s and 70s are just too outdated.

That is a fine take to have, but don't say "all time". ND has had too many QB Heisman winners and QB's that have won National Titles to say all time then dismiss the richest history in the sport.

Also...your Tony Rice takes are out there. You do realize that Rice won the Unitas Golden Arm Award in 1989, finished 4th in the Heisman that year and was named an All-American? Over his career, he also led ND to victories over the #1 team twice, #2 team twice, #3 once, #7 once, #9 three times, #10 once. That is a hell of a lot of top 10 victories and accolades for not being a QB.

Also...."without him we would be in Michigan's shoes"....stop. Ian has had a very good last few games. His rise is what put ND over the top against Clemson. But he alone did not win those games. You think ND wins against Clemson without JOK? What about Javon? It's a team game and this team is really good. Book's elevated play just makes them that much better.

 

[BilboBaggins]

Sorry I'm living in the 21st century... Appreciate what those your mentioned did for the brand but I guess I'm too invested in the present day game and how much you need to be able to do more at the position. He's a firm combination of run and pass. The QBs from the 50s 60s and 70s are just too outdated.

So if you're not measuring it on greatest and just ability to play a modern football game, then Ian Book isn't the best QB of the Brian Kelly era, Deshone Kizer is.

I have all the respect for Ian Book in the world and am thrilled of where the program is right now, but let's not forget that there are throws Ian Book simply cannot make and they've adjusted the playbook accordingly.

 

[ulukinatme]

So if you're not measuring it on greatest and just ability to play a modern football game, then Ian Book isn't the best QB of the Brian Kelly era, Deshone Kizer is.

I have all the respect for Ian Book in the world and am thrilled of where the program is right now, but let's not forget that there are throws Ian Book simply cannot make and they've adjusted the playbook accordingly.

Deshone Kizer wouldn't play in front of Ian Book, not at the college level. Kizer only got the start after Zaire went down, and then the offense got tailored to his strengths and simplified (Just as the offense was tailored for Book). Kizer also had the luxury of one year with Will Fuller, not to mention a stout OL that opened lanes for Procise to make his life easier, he had all the tools. Book would probably kill for a dynamic receiver with Fuller's speed and playmaking ability.

 

[NDFAN420]

Deshone Kizer wouldn't play in front of Ian Book, not at the college level. Kizer only got the start after Zaire went down, and then the offense got tailored to his strengths and simplified (Just as the offense was tailored for Book). Kizer also had the luxury of one year with Will Fuller, not to mention a stout OL that opened lanes for Procise to make his life easier, he had all the tools. Book would probably kill for a dynamic receiver with Fuller's speed and playmaking ability.

Kizer is an anomaly at QB during BK's time at ND, doesn't fit the profile at all. 2nd rd was obviously way too high for him. That's a credit to BK for getting him there.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Deshone Kizer is (other than Ian) the only other QB (of the Kelly era) that I would have put on my very good ND quarterbacks list. He had lots of skills and a properly field general coolness with fire about him.

I almost added Rick Mirer too but decided that the opposition debater would take solace in that since we were all slightly disappointed that Rick didn't quite achieve superman status like we expected. Then our IE guy stated that Ian was like a smaller Rick Mirer.

I also nearly mentioned just for fun that one of the quarterbacks just before me was Ralph Guglielmi --- sorry, hard to spell --- who QBd ND at the highest levels and was in Heisman talk.
AND, even "funner", one of the QBs during my time at ND was "The Mad Bomber", Daryle Lamonica ... but it's so easy to miss some of these guys in such a crowd.

... oh, yeh, in my Dad's time there was the spectacularly named William Shakespeare (no joke; look him up) who was AA ... and lets see, the Four Horsemen's QB was Harry Stuhldreher --- AA first team his senior year alongside Crowley, Layden, and Red Grange.

Some sports writer decided to rank the ten greatest ND QBs of all time (He knew that he was talking nonsense but it was a paying gig.) He said that he thought the write-up would be easy, but that when he saw the list, and learned who these guys were, he was flabbergasted. He ended up doing an "honest" job: he gave criteria for how he was going to choose/rank, admitted that his choices of criteria and his evaluations were flawed, and suggested that everyone would legitimately disagree with him.

 

[anarin]

Man, going back to the first few pages and reading the initial responses on him committing.

He'll just be a career backup, and it wont scare Hunter Johnson away. lol, just goes to show that we don't know exactly what we're ever going to get, whether it be a 3 star or 5 star player.

 

[NorthDakota]

Deshone Kizer wouldn't play in front of Ian Book, not at the college level. Kizer only got the start after Zaire went down, and then the offense got tailored to his strengths and simplified (Just as the offense was tailored for Book). Kizer also had the luxury of one year with Will Fuller, not to mention a stout OL that opened lanes for Procise to make his life easier, he had all the tools. Book would probably kill for a dynamic receiver with Fuller's speed and playmaking ability.

I think Kizer would have played. He did get gifted the job, but he grabbed it by the horns and lit it up. I was on Team Zaire but Kelly should have stuck with Kizer, I suspect 2016 would have went better. Kizer was a big boy, howitzer arm, and could run.

Kinda hard to compare them I guess, Kizer was young guy, who knows if he would have improved or regressed (reasonable question considering ND's recent history at the position). Ian has improved drastically, this year he has been day and night different.

Hopefully the stability at the position continues, its really held ND back during the Kelly years.

 

[Irish#1]

Sorry I'm living in the 21st century... Appreciate what those your mentioned did for the brand but I guess I'm too invested in the present day game and how much you need to be able to do more at the position. He's a firm combination of run and pass. The QBs from the 50s 60s and 70s are just too outdated.

He's been to the playoff once, hopefully twice coming up...but if Ian manages to win a NC what would your opinion of him be in relation to the others? He will have faced arguably more athletic teams than all those other guys faced other than Quinn and Clausen, and a NC is all that separates him from the others...hell, some of those guys don't even have a championship.

I understand how the game has changed greatly the last 30-50 years, and how comparing eras can be difficult given the circumstances. That said, achieving the kind of success Ian has had ND (Especially today given the restrictions and how teams across the board are more evenly matched than in the past) is hard to argue against.

To Uluk: My response was to the numbing comment that we can't claim to have had good quarterbacks and that Ian was "Easily" top three. (just to set the context.)

The "Those old guys didn't play the guys we have today" dismissal is for me a erroneous tack to base comparisons on.

Here are a few thoughts:
A. Those old guys played against the best guys the college game world, and not only won the games but also looked superior --- often superior to anyone around (i.e. Heismans or near-Heismans.) They were GREAT quarterbacks. They faced the best and they did everything called to do. Most of those old guys won championships.
B. Aw, them old guys didn't still didn't play teams like 2020Clemson. Yeh, correct. The health, dietary, youth conditioning levels of availability (plus steroids) weren't available to create Clemson. But they weren't available to create "Notre Dame" either. Hanratty and Huarte didn't roll their team out there with Clemson 2020 semi-pros to play midgets. These guys played the best guys of their age and did the best things asked of them and succeeded at top level effectiveness.

C. The REAL Bottomline is that comparisons of athletes developed in wildly different times or cultures is a bogus mental activity. Top Three --- in what? What are the criteria? Are the criteria definable to allow meaningful comparisons --- I'll bet if we did that on crude stats that Tommy Rees (God Bless him) would threaten the Top Three in a lot of lists.

If this is just meant to be time-consuming and basically nonsensical fun, OK, I'm fine with that. The comment that ND hasn't had many good quarterbacks was so far over the line that I responded.

That is a fine take to have, but don't say "all time". ND has had too many QB Heisman winners and QB's that have won National Titles to say all time then dismiss the richest history in the sport.

Also...your Tony Rice takes are out there. You do realize that Rice won the Unitas Golden Arm Award in 1989, finished 4th in the Heisman that year and was named an All-American? Over his career, he also led ND to victories over the #1 team twice, #2 team twice, #3 once, #7 once, #9 three times, #10 once. That is a hell of a lot of top 10 victories and accolades for not being a QB.

Also...."without him we would be in Michigan's shoes"....stop. Ian has had a very good last few games. His rise is what put ND over the top against Clemson. But he alone did not win those games. You think ND wins against Clemson without JOK? What about Javon? It's a team game and this team is really good. Book's elevated play just makes them that much better.

Comparing QB's of different eras is difficult. Players today are better athletes, but "back in the day", the top teams were more loaded with talent, so those QB's faced stiffer competition. Today you have way more teams playing, so the talent pool in general gets spread out. It's difficult to say exactly where Book should be ranked amongst ND's all time great QB's, but it sure is nice that he's done enough to warrant the conversation.

 

[rtrn2glory]

Deshone Kizer is (other than Ian) the only other QB (of the Kelly era) that I would have put on my very good ND quarterbacks list. He had lots of skills and a properly field general coolness with fire about him.

I almost added Rick Mirer too but decided that the opposition debater would take solace in that since we were all slightly disappointed that Rick didn't quite achieve superman status like we expected. Then our IE guy stated that Ian was like a smaller Rick Mirer.

I also nearly mentioned just for fun that one of the quarterbacks just before me was Ralph Guglielmi --- sorry, hard to spell --- who QBd ND at the highest levels and was in Heisman talk.
AND, even "funner", one of the QBs during my time at ND was "The Mad Bomber", Daryle Lamonica ... but it's so easy to miss some of these guys in such a crowd.

... oh, yeh, in my Dad's time there was the spectacularly named William Shakespeare (no joke; look him up) who was AA ... and lets see, the Four Horsemen's QB was Harry Stuhldreher --- AA first team his senior year alongside Crowley, Layden, and Red Grange.

Some sports writer decided to rank the ten greatest ND QBs of all time (He knew that he was talking nonsense but it was a paying gig.) He said that he thought the write-up would be easy, but that when he saw the list, and learned who these guys were, he was flabbergasted. He ended up doing an "honest" job: he gave criteria for how he was going to choose/rank, admitted that his choices of criteria and his evaluations were flawed, and suggested that everyone would legitimately disagree with him.

Proud to be the IE guy, appreciate the shoutout

 

[Old Man Mike]

Proud to be a Guardian of Tradition and our own personal ND Hall of Fame ... wish BGIF were still with us. He would have had lots to say about our many great heroes.

 

[Rocket89]

In July 2019 these QB's made the 18 Stripes ND Hall of Fame Pyramid:

185 Kizer
153 Powlus
132 Mirer
130 Clausen
129 Dancewicz
72 Stuhldreher
69 Montana
59 Dorais
54 Huarte
52 Theismann
49 Rice
39 Williams
36 Clements
32 Guglielmi
30 Quinn
13 Hanratty
10 Carideo
7 Bertelli
5 Hornung
2 Lujack

It will be a fun off-season to see where Book is placed once his career is over. IMO, he's currently somewhere between Montana and Quinn.