'14 OH QB DeShone Kizer (Notre Dame Signee)

[ulukinatme]

Again, I'm not sure why you are ignoring the fact that Zaire, like Kizer, has the ability to change those plays or make those checks. He didn't, therefore wasn't as productive. It became very clear that Zaire continues to be uncomfortable pushing the ball downfield or he would've. As, like you said, the defense was daring him to.

I'd be interested to know how many times Kizer checks into a different play, and the same for Zaire. It was mentioned last year that the offense was changed when Kizer became the QB, it was tailored to suit his strengths. We definitely execute more of a 50-50 run pass balance when Kizer has been our QB, even going back to last year. That's likely one of the reasons opposing defenses respect him more and back up. I'm skeptical that Kizer is checking into passes that much more often, I'd wager is has more to do with the fact they altered the offense for Kizer when he took over.

 

[Luckylucci]

I'd be interested to know how many times Kizer checks into a different play, and the same for Zaire. It was mentioned last year that the offense was changed when Kizer became the QB, it was tailored to suit his strengths. We definitely execute more of a 50-50 run pass balance when Kizer has been our QB, even going back to last year. That's likely one of the reasons opposing defenses respect him more and back up. I'm skeptical that Kizer is checking into passes that much more often, I'd wager is has more to do with the fact they altered the offense for Kizer when he took over.

Or that Kizer gives them a reason to respect his ability to throw the ball downfield.

Bottom line, Zaire has only shown in 1 game that he can consistently make plays downfield in the passing game. That was Texas last year. Every other game has either been wildly inaccurate or accurate with the short/intermediate routes.

 

[Circa]

There's a few things here and about what guys are generally saying about this on this thread

First of all, it's a pretty rough statement but I'm going to put it out there that if Brian Kelly had played Kizer all game and he had gotten the additional 4-5 possessions that Zaire got ND would have had a good chance to have won the game no OT, the way that Kizer was running up points.

This is certainly not definitive but coulda should woulda (as with the blocked punt or a targeting call for Hunter), Monday Morning QB says that this is something Kelly could have done differently and possible won this particular game.

Second I do think that Kelly is trying to downplay Kizer, and I noticed that as well. It's normal IMO you don't want your redshirt Sophomore QB losing focus after 1 good game... but I do think Kelly is deliberately doing that, he is an extremely experienced coach specializing in QBs, I'm sure he has thought that all out.

Third is noting that it's interesting but often overlooked that at this point Zaire is an EXTREMELY unexperienced QB compared even to Kizer who himself is a relatively young QB with less than 1 full season. Zaire basically played in 2 games, got hurt in the 3rd then split time in the 4th spread out over a year and a half.

I think that Malik showed himself to be an INCREDIBLY impressive young man the way he handled his injury last year and the QB controversy but I've also always thought him... if not overrated... untested for the amount of praise and responsibility being heaped on him... basically it was all based on 1 bowl game and a Texas blowout against a horrible team last year. We basically have no real knowledge of Malik's ceiling or even cruising altitude. He's a clearly talented but unknown quantity at this point.

I've played some ball and what I will say for perspective is that even if you had 2 QBs with equal talent and potential they would not necessarily respond as well splitting time as in the first game. Kizer in particular has shown himself to have ice in his veins and have a preternatural zen disengagement from the things going on around him. That means sitting for a year and then walking in and throwing TD strikes v Virginia. Or conducting himself whether up by 10 or down by 13 with the same demeanor . He is simply mentally resilient. He would stand there on the sidelines and just walk in after Zaire's sets and carry on like he had been on the field the entire time. No warm up period needed just point and go.

Zaire simply might not be that type of player. Not many are. I think Malik definitely must have shown a lot more in the Spring but after a year sitting, splitting him in his first game he didn't get to show what he can do. The fact that Kizer was able to, doesn't mean that Zaire also would have been able to with his half dozen possessions.

Bottom line I think that Kelly is trying to allow Zaire to show what he can do, to contribute to the team. It doesn't mean he gets to be starter, or even that Kelly is RIGHT but I think that's Kelly's intention. I mean, let's be real Zaire might not be the best QB but he definitely is a dynamic player for college ball, is there anyone who thinks he can't help the team?

Personally I would have just gone with Kizer and maybe they win that game outright. But I'm seeing a lot of comments and Kelly's thought process isn't necessarily wrong either. It basically boils down to coach's call going forward and we all have to ride with what our coach believes is best for the team.

What you can say about Kizer is that next year or soon you'll definitely see that kid suiting up on Sundays.

Long story short.. BK isn't in the business of trying to destroy..
From what I've read from you and everyone else that gives a shit. Kizer has the IT. Zaire Is a gamer and needs to be in the game. If BK plays both this week ok. If he doesn't see through the 'everyone responds to him' after.. I'll be on the real band-wagon.. No hay allowed.

 

[Circa]

Dude......He looked terrible throwing the ball. 2 of his misses weren't even close and one of those two completions was a screen to Adams (who did all the work)

I think you are giving him too much credit. The offenses was out of sync with him in the game and it looked unnatural. Kizer fits this system so much better because of his arm and decision making when running.

and... He's smart enough to stay around and not leave early...

 

[Sherm Sticky]

SIAP:

Dare to Compare: NFL comp for Notre Dame QB DeShone Kizer - NFL.com

How DeShone Kizer ended Notre Dame's QB battle by shredding Texas | FOX Sports

It's funny reading these articles how Kizer is a big time NFL prospect, one of the best if not the best QB in CFL. Yet he has not been named the starting QB for Notre Dame...


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[TP81989]

It's funny reading these articles how Kizer is a big time NFL prospect, one of the best if not the best QB in CFL. Yet he has not been named the starting QB for Notre Dame...


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It will be a joke if he's still splitting time with Zaire against Nevada.

Kizer is the best QB ND has had since Quinn. He shouldn't come out of the game unless he's injured or it's a blowout.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Here is what I noticed about Kizer that gives him the edge

1. Whatever the IT factor is that great QB's have... Kizer has IT.

2. Kizer has a huge advantage with pocket presence. Kizer is able to stay in the pocket, hang in the pocket, climb up in the pocket un rattled and deliver strikes. Zaire typically doesn't hang in the pocket, gets flushed out rather quickly and ends up running the scramble drill.


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[IrishLion]

Wouldn't surprise me one bit to see Zaire get equal reps against Nevada, and then for BK to go with Kizer full time against MSU.

 

[koonja]

I was all Malik before Texas. Now it's clear to me Kizer is the better QB. It's going to upset me to see split reps versus Nevada, because Nevada is a team that's so bad that Malik will probably shine, then BK will reinforce this stupid QB battle that by all accounts, should be in the bag and we'll limp into MSU going 50/50 when it should be all Kizer.

Play Kizer and find a package for Malik, that's as far as this should go.

 

[IrishLion]

I was all Malik before Texas. Now it's clear to me Kizer is the better QB. It's going to upset me to see split reps versus Nevada, because Nevada is a team that's so bad that Malik will probably shine, then BK will reinforce this stupid QB battle that by all accounts, should be in the bag and we'll limp into MSU going 50/50 when it should be all Kizer.

Play Kizer and find a package for Malik, that's as far as this should go.

I don't even think it should go that far.

BK knows what the answer is, now. If Malik gets plenty of reps against Nevada, I'd imagine it would be to make sure he's still ready to go and to keep MSU on their toes in their prep. Even if Malik lights it up against Nevada, I don't think we see 2 QB's against MSU unless Kizer needs to come out.

 

[NorthDakota]

I was all Malik before Texas. Now it's clear to me Kizer is the better QB. It's going to upset me to see split reps versus Nevada, because Nevada is a team that's so bad that Malik will probably shine, then BK will reinforce this stupid QB battle that by all accounts, should be in the bag and we'll limp into MSU going 50/50 when it should be all Kizer.

Play Kizer and find a package for Malik, that's as far as this should go.

I think they should strive to get Zaire a drive or two per game. One play away from starting again....

I don't think it will be 50 50 at all.

 

[kmoose]

I was all Malik before Texas. Now it's clear to me Kizer is the better QB. It's going to upset me to see split reps versus Nevada, because Nevada is a team that's so bad that Malik will probably shine, then BK will reinforce this stupid QB battle that by all accounts, should be in the bag and we'll limp into MSU going 50/50 when it should be all Kizer.

Play Kizer and find a package for Malik, that's as far as this should go.

I think that is the whole point. I think that's why they gave Malik the first series of the 2ndd half against Texas. I bet that Kelly made some adjustments at halftime, and trotted Malik out there to see if they worked. When they weren't wildly successful, it was all-Kizer from there on out. The QB competition is over, I would say. At this point, though, Kelly is probably trying to develop an optimum package for Zaire. I think he just feels like he needs to see it in "live mode", so to speak, to really be able to evaluate it.

 

[NDVirginia19]

If Osweiler doesn't pan out and the Texans stink it up on offense somehow, imagine Kizer throwing to Nuk, Will, Jalen Strong, and Braxton Miller... Yikes to the rest of the AFCs

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Here is what I noticed about Kizer that gives him the edge

1. Whatever the IT factor is that great QB's have... Kizer has IT.

2. Kizer has a huge advantage with pocket presence. Kizer is able to stay in the pocket, hang in the pocket, climb up in the pocket un rattled and deliver strikes. Zaire typically doesn't hang in the pocket, gets flushed out rather quickly and ends up running the scramble drill.


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Disagree. Despite all the fancy stats and metrics. Some QBs get the team pumped up on the sideline and in the huddle. Some are just natural born leaders. They may not play well but they are the best option.

End of sarcasm.

Seriously, this might be our last year with Kizer, he's 3 years removed from high school and if his output matches his showing against Texas, or even close, I'd imagine he'd be the highest rated QB in the draft.

If Tori doesn't get concussed, Kizer throws for 6 TDs? and rushes for another. That's unreal and he didn't even get close to committing a TO.

That pass to THJr was a thing of beauty before the targeting. Slipped in between two defenders perfectly.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

If I were head coach, I would take the red shirt off Wambush and make him #2 QB and make Zaire a slot receiver (The rise of the deep threat slot receiver - Football Study Hall) and/or H-back.
We have great talent in the pipeline for QB so we don't need to red shirt Wambush anyway. We might be able to preserve his eligibility anyway if we use our other QBs to hand off to the tailback to finish off blowouts (if we ever get one).

...and Wimbush's Mom would kill you. Keep Wimbush out of your plans this year.

Don't worry about including MZ in the offense. He'll be there if DK gets hurt, that's all ND needs him for. If you enjoy watching him, you'll get your chance next year.

This is exactly what Charlie Strong did to us with Heard, et al!

And it would be really effective for Notre Dame.

Charlie let his offense stretch ND down the field vertically, keeping ND from loading the box, or bringing the pass rush on third down like ND wanted. ND had to commit a lot more to figuring out whether UT was going to gash them down the field, or run it up the gut. That neutralized any positive effect of BVG's NFL style defense.

Irish1958 is the man on this call. Because of all the things you can do with an offense that can run a slot deep, or down the seam.

There was no way ND could keep a safety over the middle, or over the top deep to help either of the corners. No way.

If ND had Zaire in the slot, (assuming that he can catch,) with his elusiveness, and stop and start ability, it would really hurt defensive coordinators.

My question about that is how quick is Zaire, really.

You all talk about running ability and elusiveness. I have watched DK since he was about 14, and at every age, and every level, no one, nobody on the field with him, other coaches, or even the pundits have had any idea of how fast he is.

They never released a forty on him did they. And I agree with all those that say once he gets a head of steam up he is really hard to catch. In fact, I will go as far as to say that unless you have a good angle on him, or are a great open field tackler, in front of him, you are going to miss. How is that for elusive?

DK is elusive. DK is a load. And DK has corrected a lot with his throwing motion, which allows him to deliver the ball faster.

DK is the guy.

But Zaire should be on the field too. If he can receive, it helps by putting both playmakers on the field at the same time, puts more experience on the field, and a bigger (CJ Procice size) back/receiver out there. Which helped us last year, and we need this year.

 

[zelezo vlk]

All aboard the hype train!

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[aubeirish]

I don't think that MZ is faster than DK. It just seems that way because MZ is built like a running back. We have seen DK outrun corners before. He's a great runner, he's always been a great runner.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Wouldn't surprise me one bit to see Zaire get equal reps against Nevada, and then for BK to go with Zaire full time against MSU.

FIFY............

I think that is the whole point. I think that's why they gave Malik the first series of the 2ndd half against Texas. I bet that Kelly made some adjustments at halftime, and trotted Malik out there to see if they worked. When they weren't wildly successful, it was all-Kizer from there on out. The QB competition is over, I would say. At this point, though, Kelly is probably trying to develop an optimum package for Zaire. I think he just feels like he needs to see it in "live mode", so to speak, to really be able to evaluate it.

The problem is him running Zaire out there is part of what cost us the game. We just gave up a TD to Texas. We were down 2 scores. And you want to experiment to see if your halftime adjustment worked when the other QB is lighting the world on fire? As a coach isn't part of your job to put your team in the best position to win? He didn't.

 

[ulukinatme]

Here is what I noticed about Kizer that gives him the edge

1. Whatever the IT factor is that great QB's have... Kizer has IT.

2. Kizer has a huge advantage with pocket presence. Kizer is able to stay in the pocket, hang in the pocket, climb up in the pocket un rattled and deliver strikes. Zaire typically doesn't hang in the pocket, gets flushed out rather quickly and ends up running the scramble drill.


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It's funny you mentioned that. I remember it being discussed at the end of 2014 how Zaire was much better than Golson at going through progressions and hanging in the pocket longer before scrambling. I wonder if Zaire is a bit more gun shy now since the injury, or if Golson is just that much worse.

 

[irishfan]

I don't think that MZ is faster than DK. It just seems that way because MZ is built like a running back. We have seen DK outrun corners before. He's a great runner, he's always been a great runner.

Their straight-line speed is probably very similar when they both get going. I think Zaire has better acceleration and can cut/juke better.

 

[ulukinatme]

Their straight-line speed is probably very similar when they both get going. I think Zaire has better acceleration and can cut/juke better.

That's probably true. Kizer runs a bit like a gazelle with long strides and great speed once he's in the open field, Malik is more explosive and elusive.

 

[RDU Irish]

Zaire is not Michael Vick - nor is he 7ft tall and shooting lighting bolts out of his arse. You guys need your head examined if you think he should be in the slot over CJ Sanders - or in the backfield over Folston or Adams. Crafty enough to extend the play - but I have always thought he almost needed to get out of the pocket to see the field better.

Kizer is the real deal - the best thing BK can do for Malik is keep his foot on the gas so Malik gets some 4th Q reps, maybe even late 3Q. Damn would that be refreshing.

 

[BobbyMac]

I don't think that MZ is faster than DK. It just seems that way because MZ is built like a running back.

My guess from seeing both in the open field is DK has more top end. There is zero doubt in my mind MZ is the more instinctive runner. If both played an entire season on the same team, MZ would gain more yards. He naturally makes the decision to run quicker, he has the subtle moves that get past the first defender. Example: 2/3 of the RB's in the NFL were faster than Walter Payton in his career. Top end speed is not what makes you a good runner, it obviously helps if you get through the line of scrimmage and can open it up.

In DK's case, his ability as a running QB is all Kelly's system needs.

 

[Irish#1]

That's probably true. Kizer runs a bit like a gazelle with long strides and great speed once he's in the open field, Malik is more explosive and elusive.

I'm not sure Malik is more explosive. DK gets to top gear very quickly IMO. He's more fluid and eats up more ground making his speed deceiving. MZ is quicker laterally IMO.

 

[IrishBroker]

Disagree. Despite all the fancy stats and metrics. Some QBs get the team pumped up on the sideline and in the huddle. Some are just natural born leaders. They may not play well but they are the best option.

End of sarcasm.

Seriously, this might be our last year with Kizer, he's 3 years removed from high school and if his output matches his showing against Texas, or even close, I'd imagine he'd be the highest rated QB in the draft.

If Tori doesn't get concussed, Kizer throws for 6 TDs? and rushes for another. That's unreal and he didn't even get close to committing a TO.
That pass to THJr was a thing of beauty before the targeting. Slipped in between two defenders perfectly.

Not to be nit picky, but he threw a terrible ball right into double coverage in the first half...nearly picked.

But yes, he will be the highest rated QB if he keeps up this pace of good decision making, ability to run, and making all the throws.

 

[IrishBroker]

My guess from seeing both in the open field is DK has more top end. There is zero doubt in my mind MZ is the more instinctive runner. If both played an entire season on the same team, MZ would gain more yards. He naturally makes the decision to run quicker, he has the subtle moves that get past the first defender. Example: 2/3 of the RB's in the NFL were faster than Walter Payton in his career. Top end speed is not what makes you a good runner, it obviously helps if you get through the line of scrimmage and can open it up.

In DK's case, his ability as a running QB is all Kelly's system needs.

I actually disagree. He's more athletic, but Kizer makes better decisions and doesn't dance around like Zaire. Zaire is much more likely to take a bad, 12 yard loss, sack.

I think MK is more athletic, but Kizer is the better runner. If that makes any sense.


Remember, they aren't RB's.

 

[BobbyMac]

I actually disagree. He's more athletic, but Kizer makes better decisions and doesn't dance around like Zaire. Zaire is much more likely to take a bad, 12 yard loss, sack.

I think MK is more athletic, but Kizer is the better runner. If that makes any sense.


Remember, they aren't RB's.

OK.

 

[PANDFAN]

How DeShone Kizer ended Notre Dame's QB battle by shredding Texas | FOX Sports

great article, talks about his development since coming to ND...A LOT OF PRAISE of sanford and BK

 

[arrowryan]

Matt Miller is excellent and he has Deshone going #1 to Cleveland

2017 NFL Mock Draft: Matt Miller's Week 1 Projections | Bleacher Report

 

[GoIrish41]

Matt Miller is excellent and he has Deshone going #1 to Cleveland

2017 NFL Mock Draft: Matt Miller's Week 1 Projections | Bleacher Report

I freakin hate how Bleacher Report puts everything into slideshows. Just print your list, dammit!