'14 OH QB DeShone Kizer (Notre Dame Signee)

[Booslum31]

Yea, at this point, its no longer a question of if he's the best QB on the team. Its how good can he be? We need to go all in on Kizer starting today and try to max out his potential.

This!

 

[IrishBroker]

Yea, at this point, its no longer a question of if he's the best QB on the team. Its how good can he be? We need to go all in on Kizer starting today and try to max out his potential.

Exactly. Like I've said from the beginning....a 2QB system does nobody any good. Imagine if Kizer can get settled in without having to interrupt his flow?

 

[IrishLion]

Exactly. Like I've said from the beginning....a 2QB system does nobody any good. Imagine if Kizer can get settled in without having to interrupt his flow?

Hindsight is 20/20.

If there had been any indication of how far ahead Kizer would look based on fall camp and evidence in practice, Zaire wouldn't have gotten a chance. Contrary to everybody's frustrated beliefs, BK isn't going to let his ego get in the way of picking the proper QB situation.

The 2QB system did exactly what it was supposed to do, even though BK hasn't publicly stated it yet... it resulted in figuring out which QB is THE guy.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Hindsight is 20/20.

If there had been any indication of how far ahead Kizer would look based on fall camp and evidence in practice, Zaire wouldn't have gotten a chance. Contrary to everybody's frustrated beliefs, BK isn't going to let his ego get in the way of picking the proper QB situation.

The 2QB system did exactly what it was supposed to do, even though BK hasn't publicly stated it yet... it resulted in figuring out which QB is THE guy.

If the above was accurate, Zaire wouldn't have seen the field to start the 2nd half, after going down 7 more points, which gave our team a lot less room for error.
For me, that decision by Kelly, hurt his team as much as the D and BVG in this game. Kelly, with that decision, holds quite a bit of fault for our loss.

 

[IrishBroker]

Hindsight is 20/20.

If there had been any indication of how far ahead Kizer would look based on fall camp and evidence in practice, Zaire wouldn't have gotten a chance. Contrary to everybody's frustrated beliefs, BK isn't going to let his ego get in the way of picking the proper QB situation.

The 2QB system did exactly what it was supposed to do, even though BK hasn't publicly stated it yet... it resulted in figuring out which QB is THE guy.

Not really. Zaire wasn't even the Yin to Kizer's Yang as many suggested he'd be. And that was the whole point of the 2 QB system, not to figure out who was better.

It was a total waste. I'd go so far as to say that Kizer is not only a better thrower, but runner as well. He's patient and calculating when he runs, rather than just a brute athlete out there.

 

[IrishLion]

Not really. Zaire wasn't even the Yin to Kizer's Yang as many suggested he'd be. And that was the whole point of the 2 QB system, not to figure out who was better.

BK never said that they were both playing because they complimented each other. He said they were both playing because they both looked good in practice, and were preparing the right way. Once the lights came on, Kizer separated himself, which is one of the things BK mentioned he would be looking for in his presser before the game last week.

It was a total waste. I'd go so far as to say that Kizer is not only a better thrower, but runner as well. He's patient and calculating when he runs, rather than just a brute athlete out there.

It was a total waste in the sense that it killed drives, but no one knew it would be a waste, including BK, and that's my point... You can't know how far ahead Kizer would look without putting them both on the field. In that sense, it was NOT a waste... playing them both gave answer to who is better. And again, that was essentially the number one thing BK was looking for in playing them both.

As for the bolded, I 100% agree. Zaire is way more explosive hitting the hole, but I bet their speed is about even in the open field. Kizer uses his patience well, and always seems to fall forward through contact for those two extra yards. I'll take the tank that can also stand tall at 6'4" in the pocket.

 

[IrishBroker]

BK never said that they were both playing because they complimented each other. He said they were both playing because they both looked good in practice, and were preparing the right way. Once the lights came on, Kizer separated himself, which is one of the things BK mentioned he would be looking for in his presser before the game last week.



It was a total waste in the sense that it killed drives, but no one knew it would be a waste, including BK, and that's my point... You can't know how far ahead Kizer would look without putting them both on the field. In that sense, it was NOT a waste... playing them both gave answer to who is better. And again, that was essentially the number one thing BK was looking for in playing them both.

As for the bolded, I 100% agree. Zaire is way more explosive hitting the hole, but I bet their speed is about even in the open field. Kizer uses his patience well, and always seems to fall forward through contact for those two extra yards. I'll take the tank that can also stand tall at 6'4" in the pocket.

I was mainly pointing out what other posters were saying before the game with the "Tebow/Leak" comparisons. It's obvious either they didn't know what we had at QB, or tried to oversell how good of a runner Zaire was

I just think BK was overthinking himself. He knows who is the better QB. Needs to go with it.

We don't have the defense that can make up for stalled drives. We need to have the most efficient, productive offense on the field. Because we're gonna need a lot of points.

 

[RDU Irish]

Don't get the "Malik is such a great leader" talk that is shortly followed by everyone worried he won't take #2 very well. If he is a real leader he would take it in stride and get behind the #1 -100%.

Kizer is a boss - Kelly doesn't stroke him off like EG because he doesn't have to. Thick skin, all business, cool cat.

 

[ulukinatme]

Zaire is still the better runner. The problem is Kizer is good in his own right and teams respect his passing more. When Zaire was in Sunday, Texas played him tight and dared him to beat them with his arm. Unfortunately we only had 4-5 passes called for him and a lot of hand offs/options that mostly went no where. We should have gone with some more screens or pitches to keep the defense honest.

Honestly the play calling when Zaire was in was a mystery. He runs the option well, but we were really struggling to run the ball at times Sunday. We kept running the same crap over and over that wasn't working, it felt more like they were setting Malik up to fail. To be fair, the play calling for Deshone on the last drive of regulation was pretty bad too though. The one drive where Malik was moving down the field we got into 4th and short, ready to go for it, and the Mustipher penalty forced us to punt.

I doubt this is the last we see of Zaire. Kizer may struggle in a game this year, he had a few last season. Here's a question, did we see any of Luatua on Sunday? I don't recall seeing him on the field, you think we would have trotted him out for some 2 TE sets which worked well with Zaire in that LSU game and against Texas last year I think.

 

[IrishBroker]

Zaire is still the better runner. The problem is Kizer is good in his own right and teams respect his passing more. When Zaire was in Sunday, Texas played him tight and dared him to beat them with his arm. Unfortunately we only had 4-5 passes called for him and a lot of hand offs/options that mostly went no where. We should have gone with some more screens or pitches to keep the defense honest.

Honestly the play calling when Zaire was in was a mystery. He runs the option well, but we were really struggling to run the ball at times Sunday. We kept running the same crap over and over that wasn't working, it felt more like they were setting Malik up to fail. To be fair, the play calling for Deshone on the last drive of regulation was pretty bad too though. The one drive where Malik was moving down the field we got into 4th and short, ready to go for it, and the Mustipher penalty forced us to punt.

I doubt this is the last we see of Zaire. Kizer may struggle in a game this year, he had a few last season. Here's a question, did we see any of Luatua on Sunday? I don't recall seeing him on the field, you think we would have trotted him out for some 2 TE sets which worked well with Zaire in that LSU game and against Texas last year I think.

How do you figure? You must've meant that Zaire is a better athlete...I totally disagree that he's a better runner.

And when Swoopes was in the game for UT, everyone on the planet knew it was a run and he still gashed us. So no excuses for Zaire in that regard.

And maybe the playcalling is limited, because Zaire is limited or doesn't fit what we wanted to do?

 

[GowerND11]

Here's a question, did we see any of Luatua on Sunday? I don't recall seeing him on the field, you think we would have trotted him out for some 2 TE sets which worked well with Zaire in that LSU game and against Texas last year I think.

I'm pretty sure I saw him in his H-Back position a few times, and if I remember correctly he had a nice pancake.

 

[ulukinatme]

How do you figure? You must've meant that Zaire is a better athlete...I totally disagree that he's a better runner.

And when Swoopes was in the game for UT, everyone on the planet knew it was a run and he still gashed us. So no excuses for Zaire in that regard.

And maybe the playcalling is limited, because Zaire is limited or doesn't fit what we wanted to do?

Zaire is more elusive and tends to fall forward when he makes contact. Kizer falls forward a lot too, but he's a more deliberate runner. Zaire is quicker. One of the big reasons Kizer is as successful as he is running the ball is because his arm is such a threat. When he's in the game teams play back to respect it, and it leaves lots more running room for easy scrambles. Look at the yards Kizer gets on draws, it's money because the defense respects the pass. When Malik was in Sunday the Safeties cheat up, the defense generally plays closer to the ball. It was said that Strong was daring Malik to beat him with his arm, and it makes sense. In Malik's 17 snaps we called 4-5 passes, we need to change play calling when the defense is selling out for the run. Zaire isn't limited, he can pass the ball well enough, they tend to focus on running the ball when he's in though and it played right into what Texas was doing defensively.

As far as Swoopes, he was more successful because he was facing our defense...which did a pretty poor job tackling on Sunday. Their OL did a decent job blocking at times (Although they got away with quite a bit of holding and a blatant block in the back on one of Swoopes' TDs). Our OL did very well in pass blocking on Sunday, but Kelly already said the left side didn't perform up to their potential. I would still take our OL every day of the week, but defensively Texas did a better job shutting down our running game when they knew we were going to run.

 

[irish1958]

If I were head coach, I would take the red shirt off Wambush and make him #2 QB and make Zaire a slot receiver (The rise of the deep threat slot receiver - Football Study Hall) and/or H-back.
We have great talent in the pipeline for QB so we don't need to red shirt Wambush anyway. We might be able to preserve his eligibility anyway if we use our other QBs to hand off to the tailback to finish off blowouts (if we ever get one).

 

[kmoose]

In Malik's 17 snaps we called 4-5 passes, we need to change play calling when the defense is selling out for the run. Zaire isn't limited, he can pass the ball well enough, they tend to focus on running the ball when he's in though and it played right into what Texas was doing defensively.

In Kelly's offense, almost every play has a run/pass option, based on the defense's pre-snap alignment. Zaire was doing a lot of changing either the play or the protection at the LOS. I mentioned as much in the Gameday chat. If the run/pass ratio wasn't "right", it's either because of the way the defense was lined up(so it shouldn't have played into what they were doing), or Zaire wasn't making the right read.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Yea, at this point, its no longer a question of if he's the best QB on the team. Its how good can he be? We need to go all in on Kizer starting today and try to max out his potential.

Should we start a petition and have everyone on IE sign it and send it to Kelly?

Not being condescending, i really want to do it.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Should we start a petition and have everyone on IE sign it and send it to Kelly?

Not being condescending, i really want to do it.

Not being condescending, but what in the world do you think Kelly would do with that and why he would give a rats ass?

 

[BobbyMac]

If I were head coach, I would take the red shirt off Wambush and make him #2 QB and make Zaire a slot receiver (The rise of the deep threat slot receiver - Football Study Hall) and/or H-back.
We have great talent in the pipeline for QB so we don't need to red shirt Wambush anyway. We might be able to preserve his eligibility anyway if we use our other QBs to hand off to the tailback to finish off blowouts (if we ever get one).

...and Wimbush's Mom would kill you. Keep Wimbush out of your plans this year.

Don't worry about including MZ in the offense. He'll be there if DK gets hurt, that's all ND needs him for. If you enjoy watching him, you'll get your chance next year.

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

...and Wimbush's Mom would kill you. Keep Wimbush out of your plans this year.

Don't worry about including MZ in the offense. He'll be there if DK gets hurt, that's all ND needs him for. If you enjoy watching him, you'll get your chance next year.

And lord knows the way we've been running both QBs and them taking pretty serious hits from time to time having a high level backup is crucial. Kelly wouldn't be able to do designed QB runs like he has been if it weren't for the two of them.

 

[shalom]

Kelly couldn't have pulled Dayne Crist fast enough in the 2011 season opener.

Obviously I have no idea how each QB looks in practice and what happens behind closed doors.

But, why does Kelly rarely praise Kizer compared to other players on the team?

And I know Kelly recruited Zaire, is close to the Zaire family and feels bad that Zaire is going to lose starting job originally because of an injury. But, why does he do everything in his power to give Zaire the starting job? When Dayne Crist got quickest hook ever.

Note: Clearly Zaire is going to lose the starting job now due to play.


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There's a few things here and about what guys are generally saying about this on this thread

First of all, it's a pretty rough statement but I'm going to put it out there that if Brian Kelly had played Kizer all game and he had gotten the additional 4-5 possessions that Zaire got ND would have had a good chance to have won the game no OT, the way that Kizer was running up points.

This is certainly not definitive but coulda should woulda (as with the blocked punt or a targeting call for Hunter), Monday Morning QB says that this is something Kelly could have done differently and possible won this particular game.

Second I do think that Kelly is trying to downplay Kizer, and I noticed that as well. It's normal IMO you don't want your redshirt Sophomore QB losing focus after 1 good game... but I do think Kelly is deliberately doing that, he is an extremely experienced coach specializing in QBs, I'm sure he has thought that all out.

Third is noting that it's interesting but often overlooked that at this point Zaire is an EXTREMELY unexperienced QB compared even to Kizer who himself is a relatively young QB with less than 1 full season. Zaire basically played in 2 games, got hurt in the 3rd then split time in the 4th spread out over a year and a half.

I think that Malik showed himself to be an INCREDIBLY impressive young man the way he handled his injury last year and the QB controversy but I've also always thought him... if not overrated... untested for the amount of praise and responsibility being heaped on him... basically it was all based on 1 bowl game and a Texas blowout against a horrible team last year. We basically have no real knowledge of Malik's ceiling or even cruising altitude. He's a clearly talented but unknown quantity at this point.

I've played some ball and what I will say for perspective is that even if you had 2 QBs with equal talent and potential they would not necessarily respond as well splitting time as in the first game. Kizer in particular has shown himself to have ice in his veins and have a preternatural zen disengagement from the things going on around him. That means sitting for a year and then walking in and throwing TD strikes v Virginia. Or conducting himself whether up by 10 or down by 13 with the same demeanor . He is simply mentally resilient. He would stand there on the sidelines and just walk in after Zaire's sets and carry on like he had been on the field the entire time. No warm up period needed just point and go.

Zaire simply might not be that type of player. Not many are. I think Malik definitely must have shown a lot more in the Spring but after a year sitting, splitting him in his first game he didn't get to show what he can do. The fact that Kizer was able to, doesn't mean that Zaire also would have been able to with his half dozen possessions.

Bottom line I think that Kelly is trying to allow Zaire to show what he can do, to contribute to the team. It doesn't mean he gets to be starter, or even that Kelly is RIGHT but I think that's Kelly's intention. I mean, let's be real Zaire might not be the best QB but he definitely is a dynamic player for college ball, is there anyone who thinks he can't help the team?

Personally I would have just gone with Kizer and maybe they win that game outright. But I'm seeing a lot of comments and Kelly's thought process isn't necessarily wrong either. It basically boils down to coach's call going forward and we all have to ride with what our coach believes is best for the team.

What you can say about Kizer is that next year or soon you'll definitely see that kid suiting up on Sundays.

 

[NDohio]

Not being condescending, but what in the world do you think Kelly would do with that and why he would give a rats ass?

He would sign up to IE and start giving us answers!!

 

[ulukinatme]

Kelly couldn't have pulled Dayne Crist fast enough in the 2011 season opener.

Obviously I have no idea how each QB looks in practice and what happens behind closed doors.

But, why does Kelly rarely praise Kizer compared to other players on the team?

And I know Kelly recruited Zaire, is close to the Zaire family and feels bad that Zaire is going to lose starting job originally because of an injury. But, why does he do everything in his power to give Zaire the starting job? When Dayne Crist got quickest hook ever.

Note: Clearly Zaire is going to lose the starting job now due to play.

Actually, didn't Zaire get the quicker hook? Crist got a full half against South Florida (7 offensive possessions) before Tommy got inserted. Zaire got 3. For all the complaining people did about the 2 QB system, Zaire wasn't in there that much, and his one decent drive was destroyed by a penalty.

 

[dad4aa]

Actually, didn't Zaire get the quicker hook? Crist got a full half against South Florida (7 offensive possessions) before Tommy got inserted. Zaire got 3. For all the complaining people did about the 2 QB system, Zaire wasn't in there that much, and his one decent drive was destroyed by a penalty.

I am going to rewatch the game tonight, but I believe they alternated every series until Kizer went back to back at the end of the 2nd quarter because he runs the 2 minute drill better. Kizer had a lot more snaps because he played better and led us to sustained scoring drives and not a couple of 3 and out drives.

 

[dad4aa]

If you count the first series of the second half that Zaire had (since it was his turn due to the alternating series), up through that point:

Zaire 3 series, 17 snaps, 40 yards - 0 TDs
Kizer 4 series, 22 snaps, 177 yards - 2 TDs

 

[#1rish]

SIAP:

Dare to Compare: NFL comp for Notre Dame QB DeShone Kizer - NFL.com

How DeShone Kizer ended Notre Dame's QB battle by shredding Texas | FOX Sports

 

[ulukinatme]

If you count the first series of the second half that Zaire had (since it was his turn due to the alternating series), up through that point:

Zaire 3 series, 17 snaps, 40 yards - 0 TDs
Kizer 4 series, 22 snaps, 177 yards - 2 TDs

The data is erroneous though, given that 54 yards for Kizer came on the busted play where Folston broke away. Also, Kizer had a lot more pass attempts which helped his numbers. It was basically 50/50 passing/running when Kizer was in, Zaire had a lot of hand offs and options which were shut down by the Texas defense (Just 5 passes in 17 snaps). When you watch the defense, they play much closer to the ball when Zaire was in. We should have exploited that. In Zaire's 3 drives he had one good one that ended up getting shut down due to the penalty on Mustipher.

I'm fine with Kizer being the guy, I just think we put Malik in a position to fail given what Texas was doing when he was in. We kept running into the teeth of the defense repeatedly rather than taking what they were giving us.

 

[IrishinSyria]

The data is erroneous though, given that 54 yards for Kizer came on the busted play where Folston broke away. Also, Kizer had a lot more pass attempts which helped his numbers. It was basically 50/50 passing/running when Kizer was in, Zaire had a lot of hand offs and options which were shut down by the Texas defense (Just 5 passes in 17 snaps). When you watch the defense, they play much closer to the ball when Zaire was in. We should have exploited that. In Zaire's 3 drives he had one good one that ended up getting shut down due to the penalty on Mustipher.

I'm fine with Kizer being the guy, I just think we put Malik in a position to fail given what Texas was doing when he was in. We kept running into the teeth of the defense repeatedly rather than taking what they were giving us.

Didn't he throw the ball 5 times with poor results?

 

[ulukinatme]

Didn't he throw the ball 5 times with poor results?

2/5. Not great, not horrible. The sample set is too small to make an accurate gauge.

 

[Luckylucci]

The data is erroneous though, given that 54 yards for Kizer came on the busted play where Folston broke away. Also, Kizer had a lot more pass attempts which helped his numbers. It was basically 50/50 passing/running when Kizer was in, Zaire had a lot of hand offs and options which were shut down by the Texas defense (Just 5 passes in 17 snaps). When you watch the defense, they play much closer to the ball when Zaire was in. We should have exploited that. In Zaire's 3 drives he had one good one that ended up getting shut down due to the penalty on Mustipher.

I'm fine with Kizer being the guy, I just think we put Malik in a position to fail given what Texas was doing when he was in. We kept running into the teeth of the defense repeatedly rather than taking what they were giving us.

Again, I'm not sure why you are ignoring the fact that Zaire, like Kizer, has the ability to change those plays or make those checks. He didn't, therefore wasn't as productive. It became very clear that Zaire continues to be uncomfortable pushing the ball downfield or he would've. As, like you said, the defense was daring him to.

 

[IrishinSyria]

2/5. Not great, not horrible. The sample set is too small to make an accurate gauge.

For a better or worse, three series is more of a shot than most CFB QBs will ever get. I feel for the dude, but the offense just looked bad with him in. Hopefully he'll get a chance to work back in to games where we can afford to not score every series. I wouldn't mind seeing him used like Texas used Swoopes.

 

[IrishBroker]

2/5. Not great, not horrible. The sample set is too small to make an accurate gauge.

Dude......He looked terrible throwing the ball. 2 of his misses weren't even close and one of those two completions was a screen to Adams (who did all the work)

I think you are giving him too much credit. The offenses was out of sync with him in the game and it looked unnatural. Kizer fits this system so much better because of his arm and decision making when running.