article: six games in the irish right down middle

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Notre Dame — Six games in, the Irish are right down the middle


by: Ben Ford
Posted: 10/11/2010 12:18:00 AM
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NOTRE DAME -- There have been surprises along the way, as there always are, but as Notre Dame hits the halfway point of its season, it's hard to be too shocked about where the Irish find themselves.


They're 3-3, and almost the textbook definition of average.


They've beaten the teams they should beat. They've lost to teams you'd figure an average team would lose to. A couple of the wins could have been losses; a couple of the losses could have been wins.




Truth Photo By Jennifer Shephard Notre Dameâ??s Theo Riddick (6) makes a long stride before cutting back past Pittâ??s Antwuan Reed (22) for a gain on the ground during action at Notre Dame Stadium Saturday, October 9, 2010.
Click a photo to enlarge


They show tremendous promise at times and make you want to throw your remote control through the television screen at others because of inconsistency and inexplicable breakdowns in all three phases of the game.


They improve from week to week, though probably not as quickly as the coaching staff and fans would like, and most of that improvement has been structural, the kind that takes place behind the scenes.


But on gameday, as Brian Kelly said after Saturday's 23-17 victory over Pittsburgh, they get their 60 minutes worth.


"I thought we'd be where we are, probably, with our offense," Kelly said Sunday afternoon. "I think we're a little bit ahead with our rush defense."


While that offense continues to develop at the pace of its quarterback, Dayne Crist, the defense has not only carried the load during games but in many ways embodied the mental and physical toughness Kelly wants to see throughout the team.


Through six games, Notre Dame has allowed its opponents to enter the red zone 19 times, but only seven of those possessions have ended in touchdowns.


"We build that mentality in the way we train. We do that in offseason conditioning, we do that in the summer," Kelly said. "You just build that belief that when you go out there, you don't have a breaking point. Those are the things that we try to instill in the entire program."


The defense may have to continue to lead the way as Kelly keeps a tight leash on the offense.


"I'm managing (Crist) a lot more than I would a quarterback that has a lot more experience in the spread," Kelly said. "Because of that, the quarterback can't be freewheeling. At times, we just have to maintain possession."


RUDOLPH DILEMMA


With three weeks still to go before the bye week, Kelly faces a tough decision regarding standout tight end Kyle Rudolph, who hasn't fully recovered from a preseason hamstring injury.


It sounded Sunday as if Rudolph could be shut down for the game against Western Michigan, though the final decision won't be made until later this week.


"I think we all know he's struggling out there. He's trying to play and help the football team and he's not 100 percent," Kelly said. "Obviously we want to see him get better, and if that means we have to shut him down, we'll shut him down."


The problem with that strategy: Backup tight end Tyler Eifert isn't at full strength because of a shoulder injury, and third-stringer Mike Ragone, who dropped a potentially game-sealing catch against Pitt, is still rusty.


"He hasn't played a lot," Kelly said of Ragone, "and it showed."


BAD CALL?


Kelly didn't agree with the officials' call of an incomplete pass instead of intentional grounding in the end zone late in Saturday's game, but he chalked that up to a difference of opinion between he and the refs.


The pass interference penalty on Theo Riddick that nullified a Michael Floyd touchdown, though? That one was just wrong.


"Just disagree fundamentally with the call," Kelly said. "I've watched it a number of times. We'll have a conversation with the (Big East Conference) supervisor of referees. I've been running that play a long time and we've never had it called because we run it the right way."


Riddick said the defender simply ran into him and it looked like interference.


"I ran to the sideline in disbelief," Riddick said.


STILL TO COME


The six remaining Notre Dame opponents have compiled a 21-12 record, compared to the 23-10 mark its first six foes have posted.


Based on the Sagarin computer ratings, the Irish should be favored in four of their final six games -- at home against Western Michigan and Tulsa and in neutral site games against Army and Navy -- and underdogs at home against 11th-ranked Utah and at USC.
 

IrishLax

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What wins could have been losses? I mean seriously, Purdue was never in question, neither was BC and the Pitt game was a couple bad plays and blown calls away from being over many times. In none of those games did we ever not have the lead. Really stupid article.

Irish could be 5-1 and no worse than 3-3. Besides that, I hope Rudolph gets healthy and our team continues to improve and become more consistent.
 

NeuteredDoomer

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...
BAD CALL?


Kelly didn't agree with the officials' call of an incomplete pass instead of intentional grounding in the end zone late in Saturday's game, but he chalked that up to a difference of opinion between he and the refs.


The pass interference penalty on Theo Riddick that nullified a Michael Floyd touchdown, though? That one was just wrong.


"Just disagree fundamentally with the call," Kelly said. "I've watched it a number of times. We'll have a conversation with the (Big East Conference) supervisor of referees. I've been running that play a long time and we've never had it called because we run it the right way."


Riddick said the defender simply ran into him and it looked like interference.


"I ran to the sideline in disbelief," Riddick said.


...

BOOYAH! Anyone still disagree with me that the play was not a pick? Seems refs had the flags ready to negate a great ND play.
 
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johnnykillz

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I agree. But I got a wish in one hand and spit in the other.
 

phgreek

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BOOYAH! Anyone still disagree with me that the play was not a pick? Seems refs had the flags ready to negate a great ND play.

Now I am biased about the subject...I'll admit it...however

...the refs ...its like they turn idiot savant...Its like watching Rain Man when a box of toothpicks hits the floor...he can't help but count them...everything else around him be damned. Or when he's so focused on something inconsequential, he walks in front of oncoming traffic. These refs are so ULTRA focused on ND they pick up the "toothpicks" things ND does, and flat *** miss the "oncoming traffic" stuff the opposition does...

not sure if NBC does that to them for home games...ya know the antibias thing that is PERVASIVE...(and STUPID) If so they need to STFU and assume the refs get it, and stop bringing it up...who knows...

anyway Mayock was split on his view on the pivotal calls from last week...it seemed he agreed with the Riddick call, and flat out disagreed with the grounding call/no call...I'll take either, but as is always the case, we got neither...

I'll end my rant with my belief...we need to stop letting the refs have any say, and blow the doors off of teams...keep the refs out of the game. Thats on us, and until we learn to slam the door...we'll all feel sick waiting for the refs to count toothpicks and walk into oncoming traffic....although some days I wish for the latter in a literal sense. :)
 

IrishLax

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We need to go back to MAC refs... or MWC or WAC or any non-BCS conference. Pay them a bunch of money to make the right calls and call it a day.
 

phgreek

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We need to go back to MAC refs... or MWC or WAC or any non-BCS conference. Pay them a bunch of money to make the right calls and call it a day.

fine with me...would like us to take all refs out of the game more often though...
 
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What wins could have been losses? I mean seriously, Purdue was never in question, neither was BC and the Pitt game was a couple bad plays and blown calls away from being over many times. In none of those games did we ever not have the lead. Really stupid article.

Irish could be 5-1 and no worse than 3-3. Besides that, I hope Rudolph gets healthy and our team continues to improve and become more consistent.

Pittsburgh screwed themselves often in the game too, it was a closer game than you give the Panthers credit for. Notre Dame only wins that game 6/10 times.
 

NDFANnSouthWest

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It was not a well played ball game....Pitt gave us planty of opportunity...and ND did not take advantage of it. For now I am happy with the W...however we need to develop a killer instinct like our two Inside LBs!
 

BeatSC

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Pittsburgh screwed themselves often in the game too, it was a closer game than you give the Panthers credit for. Notre Dame only wins that game 6/10 times.

That's Nuckin Futs! We should beat their *** 10 out of 10. We should have been abke to drive it down and score every Fn time we got the ball.
 

phgreek

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That's Nuckin Futs! We should beat their *** 10 out of 10. We should have been abke to drive it down and score every Fn time we got the ball.

dude...I'm stealing this...

its late...been working my Futs off...and Nuckin Futs absolutely cracked me up...I have plans for it...
 

phgreek

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Riddick veered into the DB's path.

...I watched it a few times...ehhh...I'm saying he was in a mess and was looking for a place to go. Now the reality is, we know what the play is designed to do. You can't watch Pop warner without seeing some variation of this play. As well, I believe Riddick wants to clear...the guy thinks he's getting the ball every play...maybe he should, so its not like some 4th string tight end was put in the game to "pick" someone. I'm not going to assume anything other than the routes are supposed to be tight to creat confusion and hesitation...and he got tangled up.

...BTW, that does not get called on Pitt in the same situation...it does not get called anywhere else unless it was out on the boundary, and its clear the "picker" went out of his way...it just doesn't get called when there are two WR, two dbacks, and two linebackers all piled together in the middle of the field. It was a bad call in and of itself. It was a bad call as well in that it was inconsistant with how the rule is applied...and god knows we all know there is much more going on than whats in the books (see Michigan State where 00 = 1, unless you are ND earlier in the Game, then 00= flag).

...You can talk it all day...you can say Riddick did this...you can say the rules say that...at the end of the day it was a bad call if you look at the entirety of how the rule is applied...You or any zebra cannot simply throw out things like "operational time" as enforcement criteria/consideration, and then go all self righteous and point to the rule book as if its so clear on pick plays...its selective BS that is simply not going to be accepted around here, and folks are going to attack it.

by the looks of things...you are currently bloody chum...its time to get out of the water.
 

Old Man Mike

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I believe that whatever happened it was not GROSSLY intentional on Riddick's part. I believe this because he said after the game that he had no intention of ramming into the guy and "was running the play as he was taught to do it". I believe that Staff Kelly, like doubtless all other staffs with any brains, knows full well that the intent of the pattern is to get the trailing DB to hesitate [thus creating separation] but not to collide overtly so as to get a flag. My guess is that both Riddick and the defender got caught in a little more traffic at the critical second and couldn't avoid each other. Our team is remarkably free of bonehead penalties, and I trust Riddick and Kelly on this one. Now from some ref's eyes, he may have interpreted it as grossly illegal [rather than the "cleverly illegal" that all such patterns are] and called something one would normally let go, as it has become part of the standard offense.
 

JDAtlanta

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Yep.

Yep.

What wins could have been losses? I mean seriously, Purdue was never in question, neither was BC and the Pitt game was a couple bad plays and blown calls away from being over many times. In none of those games did we ever not have the lead. Really stupid article.

Irish could be 5-1 and no worse than 3-3. Besides that, I hope Rudolph gets healthy and our team continues to improve and become more consistent.

I stopped reading after that line. I have seen and heard this drivel before. I was envisioning Cowturd. Another joker without an original thought.

Oh by the way ND is insignificant. (Sarcasm button on)

Anyone else getting the feeling the talking heads at ESPN are fearing ND becoming really, really good?
 

phgreek

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I believe that whatever happened it was not GROSSLY intentional on Riddick's part. I believe this because he said after the game that he had no intention of ramming into the guy and "was running the play as he was taught to do it". I believe that Staff Kelly, like doubtless all other staffs with any brains, knows full well that the intent of the pattern is to get the trailing DB to hesitate [thus creating separation] but not to collide overtly so as to get a flag. My guess is that both Riddick and the defender got caught in a little more traffic at the critical second and couldn't avoid each other. Our team is remarkably free of bonehead penalties, and I trust Riddick and Kelly on this one. Now from some ref's eyes, he may have interpreted it as grossly illegal [rather than the "cleverly illegal" that all such patterns are] and called something one would normally let go, as it has become part of the standard offense.

...totally agree.

As for Riddick's motivation/Mind set going into that play...No way Riddick is taking himself out of a play...he wants to clear because he believes he is the difference maker (and so far I agree)...and all he is thinking is once I clear this mess, I'm going down the sidelines for 6. ie the mirror image of what Floyd did...except he colided with someone...I just am not willing to buy Riddick intentionally took himself out of that play, nor am I willing to buy that Kelly or anyone else would ask him to do so...given he has been more productive in the open field than anyone...its "Nuckin Futs" (thanks for that beatsc).

As for the refs...ahh...I beat on them enough...they blew it...they blow it alot...we need to take them out of more games.
 

Old Man Mike

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You've got to look at the defender at that moment if you're intending to scrape by close---the downfield eyes come after you're clear the ruck. Plus, if the guy's not where you expected him to be, it's going to be pretty fixating for you right at that moment.
 
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phgreek

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You've got to look at the defender at that moment if you're intending to scrape by close---the downfield eyes come after you're clear the ruck. Plus, if the guy's not where you expected him to be, it's going to be pretty fixating for you right at that moment.

...Amen

slomo anything and it looks way different...even top side cameras slow things down. If folks want to see what that really looks like at live speed...get a field level camera shot of it, then folks can ponder it...

If after that, if folks still think he stared at the guy...well then I'll listen...but I know what that looks like at full speed...There is no F in Way it was intentional.
 

JughedJones

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...I watched it a few times...ehhh...I'm saying he was in a mess and was looking for a place to go. Now the reality is, we know what the play is designed to do. You can't watch Pop warner without seeing some variation of this play. As well, I believe Riddick wants to clear...the guy thinks he's getting the ball every play...maybe he should, so its not like some 4th string tight end was put in the game to "pick" someone. I'm not going to assume anything other than the routes are supposed to be tight to creat confusion and hesitation...and he got tangled up.

...BTW, that does not get called on Pitt in the same situation...it does not get called anywhere else unless it was out on the boundary, and its clear the "picker" went out of his way...it just doesn't get called when there are two WR, two dbacks, and two linebackers all piled together in the middle of the field. It was a bad call in and of itself. It was a bad call as well in that it was inconsistant with how the rule is applied...and god knows we all know there is much more going on than whats in the books (see Michigan State where 00 = 1, unless you are ND earlier in the Game, then 00= flag).

...You can talk it all day...you can say Riddick did this...you can say the rules say that...at the end of the day it was a bad call if you look at the entirety of how the rule is applied...You or any zebra cannot simply throw out things like "operational time" as enforcement criteria/consideration, and then go all self righteous and point to the rule book as if its so clear on pick plays...its selective BS that is simply not going to be accepted around here, and folks are going to attack it.

by the looks of things...you are currently bloody chum...its time to get out of the water.




Very well said.
 

IrishinSyria

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...totally agree.

As for Riddick's motivation/Mind set going into that play...No way Riddick is taking himself out of a play...he wants to clear because he believes he is the difference maker (and so far I agree)...and all he is thinking is once I clear this mess, I'm going down the sidelines for 6. ie the mirror image of what Floyd did...except he colided with someone...I just am not willing to buy Riddick intentionally took himself out of that play, nor am I willing to buy that Kelly or anyone else would ask him to do so...given he has been more productive in the open field than anyone...its "Nuckin Futs" (thanks for that beatsc).

As for the refs...ahh...I beat on them enough...they blew it...they blow it alot...we need to take them out of more games.


I absolutely agree with you on Riddick's intentions. As for the Refs, another close call goes against ND. Maybe we benefit from a lot of close calls too, but I sure as hell don't remember them.

Anyways the route was designed to jam things up, we all agree on that. In those cases, it makes a lot of sense that the burden of avoiding any collision should rest with the offensive players. Not only do they know exactly where they are going, they also stand to gain the most from any collision (see: Michael Floyd in the endzone.)

Thus I feel the opposite way about this call then I did about the non-safety. In this case, the refs got the theory of the rule right, but they went against the way that rule is called in practice.

The safety, on the other hand, was the opposite: right call by precedent, wrong call by theory.

Both calls went against ND. Coincidence? I'm the type of person who thinks yes. But the evidence does seem to be building up week after week. We can use other conferences' refs, we just have to start picking the ones with last names like McDonnell and O'reilly and Clark.
 
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I usually say people just make excuses when they bitch about refs but have to say Notre dame gets screwed over ALOT !!! Last two Michigan games alone I swear . We are improved but are not close to top 20 in nation at this point and that's where we should be Every year!!!!!!!!
 

phgreek

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I absolutely agree with you on Riddick's intentions. As for the Refs, another close call goes against ND. Maybe we benefit from a lot of close calls too, but I sure as hell don't remember them.

Anyways the route was designed to jam things up, we all agree on that. In those cases, it makes a lot of sense that the burden of avoiding any collision should rest with the offensive players. Not only do they know exactly where they are going, they also stand to gain the most from any collision (see: Michael Floyd in the endzone.)

Thus I feel the opposite way about this call then I did about the non-safety. In this case, the refs got the theory of the rule right, but they went against the way that rule is called in practice.

The safety, on the other hand, was the opposite: right call by precedent, wrong call by theory.

Both calls went against ND. Coincidence? I'm the type of person who thinks yes. But the evidence does seem to be building up week after week. We can use other conferences' refs, we just have to start picking the ones with last names like McDonnell and O'reilly and Clark.

Can't argue most of your logic...I see your point about the O knowing the basic path of the play...the fact that the O stands to gain from collision...etc. It all jives with what I've seen and know...only time I've seen it applied is when you have twins or trips crossing out around the hashes...

I'll be looking for examples of anything like this being called in the middle 1/3 of the field w/in 15 yards from scrimage at any level pro or college the rest of the year...but I won't be holding my breath...
 
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