ND's Talking Heads ... The good, bad & ugly

WilliamWallace

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I noticed at one point during the game, Gino was teaching Hartman (and the other qb’s) something and Hartman was listening. That says a lot imo. Yes, they all try and do that but I have seen so many times where guys just blow off coaches during games or coaches don’t teach much in games. Gino seems very confident and the body language says Hartman was in tune to what he was saying. It never felt like Rees was teaching.
It hasn’t felt like this in who knows how long? The QB disrespecting his coach all occurred under the last regime (It was more than noticeable). That’s a coaching problem! We’ve not had a coach that could do his job with the talent we’ve had in many moons. It has to be a glaring reality for those that were in charge. If not, then they are fools. We had better QB’s during the Charlie W. era.
 

KPENN

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Why are we blaming BK for QB development then?
He wasn’t the QB coach?
If you say because he hired a he QB coach, then that’s the same as Saban.
Because he’s the head coach, and it’s not like Rees got the job and fucked up Brian Kelly’s stellar QB development.
 

WilliamWallace

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Buchner was at ND in 2021 & hurt almost all of 2022.
So he basically had a year & a half to develop at ND, only 12 months under BK.
So if he is at Bama the next 2-3 years, which is longer than at ND, and under Saban for 30 months, and stinks, does that mean Saban couldn’t develop him either?
Saban is not a QB coach. Who was his QB coach at that time that he was at ND? Remember the throwing motion debate? Who changed that? Buchner was awesome in his HS film. Someone changed that. If Buchner doesn’t progress where he’s at, then you have to think it’s on him at this point. Saban will give him an opportunity, beyond that, you have to compete. Buchner either goes back to his roots, or he’s out of a job.
 

WilliamWallace

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Because he’s the head coach, and it’s not like Rees got the job and fucked up Brian Kelly’s stellar QB development.
Agreed, I think BK thought he could put whoever in place as a CEO Coach, and it would work out. The problem is, it didn’t. BK never had a successful QB. He never even tried to fix it. Sometimes you have to intervene. Saban will, like it or not! BK never seemed to want to be hassled with such things, hence the lack of QB success. His purple face just couldn’t figure out why he wasn’t more successful. Some times you just gotta try!!!
 

Reaper97

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LOL at people saying ND never had a QB and BK didn’t try.

They went to multiple CFPs, a BCS title game, multiple other NY6 games, averaged 11 wins per season his last 5 seasons…but he didn’t try or figure anything out.
Okay.
 

NDohio

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Saban is not a QB coach. Who was his QB coach at that time that he was at ND? Remember the throwing motion debate? Who changed that? Buchner was awesome in his HS film. Someone changed that. If Buchner doesn’t progress where he’s at, then you have to think it’s on him at this point. Saban will give him an opportunity, beyond that, you have to compete. Buchner either goes back to his roots, or he’s out of a job.
TB had a private QB coach during his HS years that changed his throwing motion. That had nothing to do with ND or Tommy Rees.
 

WilliamWallace

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LOL at people saying ND never had a QB and BK didn’t try.

They went to multiple CFPs, a BCS title game, multiple other NY6 games, averaged 11 wins per season his last 5 seasons…but he didn’t try or figure anything out.
Okay.
And never had a legitimate QB, I’m not telling you something that isn’t obvious. Don’t make it out to be more than what it is. If not BK then who? Who was responsible? If Hartman can come in with a second year HC, who didn’t do their job?
 

WilliamWallace

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LOL at people saying ND never had a QB and BK didn’t try.

They went to multiple CFPs, a BCS title game, multiple other NY6 games, averaged 11 wins per season his last 5 seasons…but he didn’t try or figure anything out.
Okay.
The BCS title game was also by chance. It just aligned. It clearly wasn’t because we were superior. We didn’t even belong. Yeah, good on Kelly to keep us as a winning program, but it wasn’t without headache , and heartbreak. Every year had head scratching and glorious moments. But every year also brought the realization that we weren’t quite good enough.

So yeah, BK’s golf playing ass was lazy, he did just enough. He strung us along and got a pay day. Good for him but not for ND.
 

IrishLax

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Kelly was definitely a good coach and CEO. He has proven that at multiple stops, not just ND. It's also clear that he continually whiffed on offensive recruiting at multiple positions. We had stretches with abysmal talent at every position on offense except for OL and TE... and OL even had a couple off years here and there.
 

Huntr

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Kelly was definitely a good coach and CEO.

Good coach, yes, but some of his hires were terrible. I also don't think a good CEO needs The Great Reset, particularly just 3 years after letting his efforts to climb the corporate ladder be a detriment to his team. I think he improved in that regard after 2016, but for at least half of his tenure at ND he was pretty shitty at being a CEO.
 

Irish#1

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To expand on the above a little further.

I looked all of Hartman's first half completions using a cut-up from youtube of all his completions on the day. Assuming that is right. I believe he had 12 first half completions. Of the 12 completions, 8 came with 5 OL and 4+ out.

Now, Evans was on the field for most if not all of those as one of the 4 out. But in none was he attached. It was just 5 OL.

This is far cry from what we've seen as of late. And, it is directly correlated to their trust in Hartman and the OL.

So, my takeaways are quite a bit different than others. We're actually seeing the opening up of the offense. It just wasn't full of exotic motions and play design because it was Navy and week 1.
Yep, no need to motion LB's and safeties out of the way when you can pretty much over power everyone. I suspect we will see much of the same this Saturday.
 

Irish#1

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Refreshing for him to truly believe ND should be eating first in modern football. This is a good sign because he knows his shit.
Did the light bulb just go off for you? Everyone on this board has known for years that we should have landed better QB's.
 

Irishdrunk

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Jilted Lover Syndrome here! Shouldn’t this be in the Brian Kelly thread?

By the way, we crap on his recruiting yet for the 2023, 2024, and now the 2025 cycle he is got better classes than Notre Dame.
 

arrowryan

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Jilted Lover Syndrome here! Shouldn’t this be in the Brian Kelly thread?

By the way, we crap on his recruiting yet for the 2023, 2024, and now the 2025 cycle he is got better classes than Notre Dame.

When the guy who does the 247 rankings publicly hates Notre Dame, they’ll never have a top class.

That’s okay though. It’s quite obvious this staff has an eye for talent.
 

rikkitikki08

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So ND needed better QB play over the last 15 years? What a revelation, Jason Garrett would be proud
 

Some Irish Bloke

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When you can’t develop a QB, you can’t develop a QB. Rees may be a great X’s and O’s coach, who also happens to be an ex-QB, but he doesn’t appear to be a great QB coach. It is what it is, we’ve had a good bit of talent come through the system over the last dozen years that didn’t pan out. You can’t miss that many times without blaming the coaches. I know it’s not all on Rees, but damn! Too many that didn’t work out. Someone has to take the blame.
I think Rees deserves a lot of credit for Ian Book's development from a 3 star to breaking a lot of ND records. He also deserves credit missing on Buchner/passing on JJ McCarthy, so it's a mixed bag, to be fair.

However, I think more of the blame should be on BK's shoulders. During his 10+ years here, every QB except for Book regressed, and regressed noticeably, in year 2 in his system.

The reason I give Rees credit for Book is that Rees was OC/QB coach when Book finally maintained a somewhat consistent level of play from 2018-2020.
 
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ulukinatme

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I feel like BK went after some bigger fish in the beginning, but when they didn't pan out or transferred he decided to get lazy and go after low hanging fruit. That's why we went from Clark/Pyne/Buchner to Minchey/Carr/Hartman after he left.
 

IrishLax

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Good coach, yes, but some of his hires were terrible. I also don't think a good CEO needs The Great Reset, particularly just 3 years after letting his efforts to climb the corporate ladder be a detriment to his team. I think he improved in that regard after 2016, but for at least half of his tenure at ND he was pretty shitty at being a CEO.
Good points. Maybe "good CEO when he is trying hard and not making lazy choices."
 

Irishdrunk

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I think Rees deserves a lot of credit for Ian Book's development from a 3 star to breaking a lot of ND records. He also deserves credit missing on Buchner/passing on JJ McCarthy, so it's a mixed bag, to be fair.

However, I think more of the blame should be on BK's shoulders. During his 10+ years here, every QB except for Book regressed, and regressed noticeably, in year 2 in his system.

The reason I give Rees credit for Book is that Rees was OC/QB coach when Book finally maintained a somewhat consistent level of play from 2018-2020.
Not to digress from the thread, but FIFY.
 

ulukinatme

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I think BK asked too much of his QBs. When the offense was simple the first time starters seemed to grasp it well and execute. When he tried to complicate it and add more responsibility it crushed most of them. It seemed like only the heady, high IQ players like Rees and Book could handle the extra thinking and management, although I'm not sure the offense improved in the stat column.
 

Some Irish Bloke

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I did. It’s nice having a legit QB. The offense seemed as tight as I have seen them in years. OSU might have its hands full in South Bend.
I agree, it's one thing to say "it's just Navy" but the way he navigated the pocket, threw accurate passes under pressure and threw guys open.... particularly that really nice sideline throw to Colzie as Hartman was getting hit...we haven't seen that kind of pocket presence in a longggg time around here.
 
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