'23 MI QB Dante Moore (Greek Spaghetti Transfer)

[DONTH8]

🙂

 

[NDMatt91]

FWIW, Ryan Roberts of Irish Breakdown still feels "really good" about Dante and that he'll end up at ND.

 

[ColinKSU]

Loved someone asking Irish Illustrated if it’s fair to criticize Rees if he misses on Moore and will have landed literally only Tyler Buchner as an elite QB in a five-year period.

It was fun to see that crew workshop some excuses for Rees if that happens. “Bad QB recruiting actually predates Rees” or “Buchner or Moore will just leave if you land Moore” seem like the leaders in the clubhouse.

 

[irish2104]

Jaden Rashada just scheduled visits to AM and LSU official visits.. can't be a bad sign

 

[Irish#1]

I basically stayed off of IE for four days for the holiday and catching back up it appears we are in the same place we were a while back.

 

[NDMatt91]

Jaden Rashada just scheduled visits to AM and LSU official visits.. can't be a bad sign

Especially the A&M visit.

 

[allenm5333]

FWIW, Ryan Roberts of Irish Breakdown still feels "really good" about Dante and that he'll end up at ND.

He has been a good addition to Irish Breakdown

 

[StPaul_Irish]

I basically stayed off of IE for four days for the holiday and catching back up it appears we are in the same place we were a while back.

Moore of the same?

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

I basically stayed off of IE for four days for the holiday and catching back up it appears we are in the same place we were a while back.

No, we've gone in at least 4 full emotional circles. You really missed out but if you sit tight, I think another one is just starting...

 

[IHateMarkMay]

I basically stayed off of IE for four days for the holiday and catching back up it appears we are in the same place we were a while back.

Pretty much accurate.

Any school the board feels would be a threat has a high ranked QB OVing soon.

People want Moore to commit now.

SeaTurtle is optimistic.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

FWIW, Ryan Roberts of Irish Breakdown still feels "really good" about Dante and that he'll end up at ND.

Roberts Is SeaTurtle

 

[T-Boone]

Not really as big a deal as it used to be with auto transfers. If he loses the job he can hit the portal and watch the bidding begin.

In that case he shouldn’t mind if we start pursuing other QBs for 23.

Bro I can literally hear your tears hitting the keyboard as you type this sentence. Super weird.

haha. I am sensing Incelphobia.

 

[ACamp1900]

Pretty much accurate.

Any school the board feels would be a threat has a high ranked QB OVing soon.

People want Moore to commit now.

SeaTurtle is optimistic.

You forgot: Trojans by fifty

 

[ulukinatme]

Loved someone asking Irish Illustrated if it’s fair to criticize Rees if he misses on Moore and will have landed literally only Tyler Buchner as an elite QB in a five-year period.

It was fun to see that crew workshop some excuses for Rees if that happens. “Bad QB recruiting actually predates Rees” or “Buchner or Moore will just leave if you land Moore” seem like the leaders in the clubhouse.

They're not wrong on the poor QB recruiting. It's been what...15 years since we've landed a 5 star, and it was Dayne Crist? In previous years we went for the low/mid 4 star talent and locked them up. With Freeman's push to bring in top talent, is it his call to focus on Moore and not pursue any others? I personally think Moore is out of our league, and for that reason we shouldn't be pursuing him alone. The fact is ND just hasn't produced QB talent for decades, not the kind that succeeds at the next level. We've had some good to great college QBs here, but if you're one of the top QB talents in the nation you just don't come to ND if the NFL is your target. I think that's a big reason Moore will ultimately go elsewhere. I'd love to be proven wrong. Development aside, I'm willing to bet someone will offer more $$$ too.

 

[NorthDakota]

They're not wrong on the poor QB recruiting. It's been what...15 years since we've landed a 5 star, and it was Dayne Crist? In previous years we went for the low/mid 4 star talent and locked them up. With Freeman's push to bring in top talent, is it his call to focus on Moore and not pursue any others? I personally think Moore is out of our league, and for that reason we shouldn't be pursuing him alone. The fact is ND just hasn't produced QB talent for decades, not the kind that succeeds at the next level. We've had some good to great college QBs here, but if you're one of the top QB talents in the nation you just don't come to ND if the NFL is your target. I think that's a big reason Moore will ultimately go elsewhere. I'd love to be proven wrong. Development aside, I'm willing to bet someone will offer more $$$ too.

I'll take a great college QB... even if he ain't cut out for Sundays. But man it'd be cool to get a guy who can do both.

 

[CoachB]

Yeah, but what college does reel out stud NFL QB's regularly? It seems like more of a one off position. Certainly not our competition for Dante. A&M? Nope. LSU? Outside Burrow, nope, and certainly not BK. Oregon? Miami? Nope and nope. Think of where the good NFL QBs went to college. It's not like they develop NFL studs on the yearly. That's not really a factor. Josh Allen - Wyoming isn't a hot spot to turn into an NFL QB. Brees went to Purdue, Rodgers to Cal. Mahomes Texas Tech. Tua, Mac, and Hurts maybe are the closest thing to it, maybe. Although those are more a product of their college receiving core. Wilson..BYU. Jones...Duke. Wentz and Lance...N. Dakota St? Is that where a big time recruit goes to get NFL ready? Lamar went to Louisville, Big Ben Miami of Ohio. Matt Ryan Boston College. Russell Wilson went to NC State, then Wisconsin. Derek Carr...that QB mecca that is Fresno St. Clemson had two good ones lately in Lawrence and Watson, but their O coordinator has since moved on. Dak from Miss. St. Cousins from MSU, etc, etc, etc. Are these places hotbeds that a QB should go to if they want to make sure they make it in the NFL? I don't think so. I think QB is the one position that if you are talented and can put it all together, you can be from Wyoming and be a better QB and higher draft pick than all the others. Yeah, maybe ND hasn't reeled out the high QB draft picks in the past, but neither has anyone else. That being said, maybe Tyler, then Dante, then CJ or Julian will start that trend under Freeman. Then we would even get Moore QB exposure. Just Sayin.

 

[chisea03]

I basically stayed off of IE for four days for the holiday and catching back up it appears we are in the same place we were a while back.

Yeah, but what college does reel out stud NFL QB's regularly? It seems like more of a one off position. Certainly not our competition for Dante. A&M? Nope. LSU? Outside Burrow, nope, and certainly not BK. Oregon? Miami? Nope and nope. Think of where the good NFL QBs went to college. It's not like they develop NFL studs on the yearly. That's not really a factor. Josh Allen - Wyoming isn't a hot spot to turn into an NFL QB. Brees went to Purdue, Rodgers to Cal. Mahomes Texas Tech. Tua, Mac, and Hurts maybe are the closest thing to it, maybe. Although those are more a product of their college receiving core. Wilson..BYU. Jones...Duke. Wentz and Lance...N. Dakota St? Is that where a big time recruit goes to get NFL ready? Lamar went to Louisville, Big Ben Miami of Ohio. Matt Ryan Boston College. Russell Wilson went to NC State, then Wisconsin. Derek Carr...that QB mecca that is Fresno St. Clemson had two good ones lately in Lawrence and Watson, but their O coordinator has since moved on. Dak from Miss. St. Cousins from MSU, etc, etc, etc. Are these places hotbeds that a QB should go to if they want to make sure they make it in the NFL? I don't think so. I think QB is the one position that if you are talented and can put it all together, you can be from Wyoming and be a better QB and higher draft pick than all the others. Yeah, maybe ND hasn't reeled out the high QB draft picks in the past, but neither has anyone else. That being said, maybe Tyler, then Dante, then CJ or Julian will start that trend under Freeman. Then we would even get Moore QB exposure. Just Sayin.

Ohio State has a couple
USC had a few

 

[T-Boone]

Oklahoma

 

[CoachB]

Oklahoma, yes, with Murray and Baker, and kinda Jalen. Better than some. Who for USC? Darn old? Ohio St has Fields and Stroud soon...although IMO a product of receiving core too. Haven't done as much in the NFL. I am more and more convinced the current trend of winning teams are dominant pass catchers.

 

[irishff1014]

Yeah, but what college does reel out stud NFL QB's regularly? It seems like more of a one off position. Certainly not our competition for Dante. A&M? Nope. LSU? Outside Burrow, nope, and certainly not BK. Oregon? Miami? Nope and nope. Think of where the good NFL QBs went to college. It's not like they develop NFL studs on the yearly. That's not really a factor. Josh Allen - Wyoming isn't a hot spot to turn into an NFL QB. Brees went to Purdue, Rodgers to Cal. Mahomes Texas Tech. Tua, Mac, and Hurts maybe are the closest thing to it, maybe. Although those are more a product of their college receiving core. Wilson..BYU. Jones...Duke. Wentz and Lance...N. Dakota St? Is that where a big time recruit goes to get NFL ready? Lamar went to Louisville, Big Ben Miami of Ohio. Matt Ryan Boston College. Russell Wilson went to NC State, then Wisconsin. Derek Carr...that QB mecca that is Fresno St. Clemson had two good ones lately in Lawrence and Watson, but their O coordinator has since moved on. Dak from Miss. St. Cousins from MSU, etc, etc, etc. Are these places hotbeds that a QB should go to if they want to make sure they make it in the NFL? I don't think so. I think QB is the one position that if you are talented and can put it all together, you can be from Wyoming and be a better QB and higher draft pick than all the others. Yeah, maybe ND hasn't reeled out the high QB draft picks in the past, but neither has anyone else. That being said, maybe Tyler, then Dante, then CJ or Julian will start that trend under Freeman. Then we would even get Moore QB exposure. Just Sayin.

Very good post but you did prove a point ND hasn't been able to develop a QB to that level. Yes i know Book and Kiser are in NFL. There's a huge difference between being on the roaster and actually being good enough to start.

Kiser did it to himself and left to early. IMO

 

[Irish#1]

Purdue use to crank out NFL QB's like nobody's business, but that was many moons ago. Dawson, Griese, Everitt, Phipps, Hermann and Danielson. Even after Brees they put Orton and Painter in the league. Drafting a QB that is going to be a success in the NFL is such a crap shoot. IMO, the key is the difference in the speed of the game and the ability to mentally process everything faster than the others. Manning and Brady are good examples. Neither had an arm that would knock your socks off, but they were a step ahead of what the defense was doing. Granted it was only one game, but the game I saw Moore play, he reminded me of Russel Wilson. If the rest of his career is similar to that game, he can lead us to the promised land.

 

[benneboy]

They're not wrong on the poor QB recruiting. It's been what...15 years since we've landed a 5 star, and it was Dayne Crist? In previous years we went for the low/mid 4 star talent and locked them up. With Freeman's push to bring in top talent, is it his call to focus on Moore and not pursue any others? I personally think Moore is out of our league, and for that reason we shouldn't be pursuing him alone. The fact is ND just hasn't produced QB talent for decades, not the kind that succeeds at the next level. We've had some good to great college QBs here, but if you're one of the top QB talents in the nation you just don't come to ND if the NFL is your target. I think that's a big reason Moore will ultimately go elsewhere. I'd love to be proven wrong. Development aside, I'm willing to bet someone will offer more $$$ too.

If that was Bama's attitude 6 or 7 years ago they'd have fallen into a mediocrity. They'd had a historically atrocious past with qbs in the league.

 

[IrishLax]

They're not wrong on the poor QB recruiting. It's been what...15 years since we've landed a 5 star, and it was Dayne Crist? In previous years we went for the low/mid 4 star talent and locked them up. With Freeman's push to bring in top talent, is it his call to focus on Moore and not pursue any others? I personally think Moore is out of our league, and for that reason we shouldn't be pursuing him alone. The fact is ND just hasn't produced QB talent for decades, not the kind that succeeds at the next level. We've had some good to great college QBs here, but if you're one of the top QB talents in the nation you just don't come to ND if the NFL is your target. I think that's a big reason Moore will ultimately go elsewhere. I'd love to be proven wrong. Development aside, I'm willing to bet someone will offer more $$$ too.

In 2012 Kiel was the #1 QB recruit #26 overall and a 5-star.
In 2015 Wimbush barely missed at #3 DUAL and #46 overall (Blake Barnett was #2 PRO and #22 overall 5-star who decommitted)
In 2018 Jurkovec was highly rated near 5-star when we initially took his commitment but ended up at #4 DUAL and #86 overall by the end of the cycle.
In 2021 they passed on McCarthy (ended up #5 QB // #25 overall and a 5-star) for Buchner (ended up #11 QB // #71 overall).

So virtually no 5-stars, and once every three years they get a highly rated national recruit who is considered by at least some services to be near a 5-star talent.

The weirder case study though is to look at what happens to most of those top rated QBs. Like if you look at 2015, Kyler Murray was #1 ahead of Wimbush at #3 and Murray has been great... then you had Sam Darnold at #5, Joe Burrow at #8, and Lamar Jackson at #12 in dual threat rankings. Those guys range from mid-four star to three-star but were all top draft picks. Lamar Jackson was an 88 rating 3 star. Blake Barnett couldn't even get it done at the lower levels and was a 99 rating 5-star. It seems that historically only about ~30% of "top rated" QBs hit. Which is why Oklahoma and other "factories" actually get their production out of transfers for the most part... the highest hit rate for any school with their own recruits probably has to be Bama followed by maybe Ohio State (but even they took in Justin Field from the transfer market).

There is -- at best -- a coin flip chance that someone like Dante Moore is even going to be a NFL talent when all is said and done.

 

[stlnd01]

What Coach B said. Aside from Oklahoma under Riley and maybe Bama the last few years, I don't know what these supposed QB factories are.

The best QBs in the NFL went to Michigan 25 years ago, Cal, Texas Tech and Wisconsin by way of NC State. For awhile it seemed like there were more NFL starters who'd gone to Michigan State than anyplace else. There are so many variables I don't know what path a 17-year-old stud could look at and say "THAT's how I get to the league." (Aside from playing for Lincoln Riley, that seems to be the path.)

But it is fairly clear what paths that 17-year-old can take if they want to play in big games and be a big-time player in college and for that Notre Dame is as good a place as just about any.

 

[chisea03]

Oklahoma, yes, with Murray and Baker, and kinda Jalen. Better than some. Who for USC? Darn old? Ohio St has Fields and Stroud soon...although IMO a product of receiving core too. Haven't done as much in the NFL. I am more and more convinced the current trend of winning teams are dominant pass catchers.

Usc had Leinart, Cassel, Sanchez, Palmer, Barkley, Darnold

OSU has/had Haskin, Fields, Cardale, Troy Smith albeit most were and are nfl garbage but...

 

[RDU Irish]

Who is to say the name of the game is still NFL pathway? QB is the highest profile position and we have the new NIL environment allowing all out bidding wars. For a position with such a low hit rate and high implied value - most of these kids can get life changing money now and don't have to wait/hope for the NFL.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

In 2012 Kiel was the #1 QB recruit #26 overall and a 5-star.
In 2015 Wimbush barely missed at #3 DUAL and #46 overall (Blake Barnett was #2 PRO and #22 overall 5-star who decommitted)
In 2018 Jurkovec was highly rated near 5-star when we initially took his commitment but ended up at #4 DUAL and #86 overall by the end of the cycle.
In 2021 they passed on McCarthy (ended up #5 QB // #25 overall and a 5-star) for Buchner (ended up #11 QB // #71 overall).

So virtually no 5-stars, and once every three years they get a highly rated national recruit who is considered by at least some services to be near a 5-star talent.

The weirder case study though is to look at what happens to most of those top rated QBs. Like if you look at 2015, Kyler Murray was #1 ahead of Wimbush at #3 and Murray has been great... then you had Sam Darnold at #5, Joe Burrow at #8, and Lamar Jackson at #12 in dual threat rankings. Those guys range from mid-four star to three-star but were all top draft picks. Lamar Jackson was an 88 rating 3 star. Blake Barnett couldn't even get it done at the lower levels and was a 99 rating 5-star. It seems that historically only about ~30% of "top rated" QBs hit. Which is why Oklahoma and other "factories" actually get their production out of transfers for the most part... the highest hit rate for any school with their own recruits probably has to be Bama followed by maybe Ohio State (but even they took in Justin Field from the transfer market).

There is -- at best -- a coin flip chance that someone like Dante Moore is even going to be a NFL talent when all is said and done.

How much of Buchner's drop was simply due to him missing his senior season?

 

[IrishLax]

How much of Buchner's drop was simply due to him missing his senior season?

His drop was missing senior season + tinkering with mechanics going to the QB combines. They basically said "this guy has played no football and we don't know how good he is because he isn't a consistent thrower in a camp setting, but he's an exceptional athlete."

 

[GATTACA!]

Who is to say the name of the game is still NFL pathway? QB is the highest profile position and we have the new NIL environment allowing all out bidding wars. For a position with such a low hit rate and high implied value - most of these kids can get life changing money now and don't have to wait/hope for the NFL.

I don’t think it’s then performance of the guys in the NFL it’s their ability to get there. QBs aren’t going to care that Cardale sucked in the NFL but OSU is attractive because the program is good enough and has enough talent that Cardale would have been a first round pick after only playing there one season.

 

[Rockin’Irish]

I just think if ND’s QB is at a level where they would get drafted in the first ~5 rounds, the defense is at or very close to elite level, the OL is the same along with multiple draftable skill players (WR and RB), our chances to get back to the champs podium are extremely good. Our special teams would also need to be solid with maybe a wildcard skill returner.