Post Game: Cincinatti

Irishize

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I really can’t understand the Chris Watt stuff. In this very thread and others all I read is complaining and complaining about nepotism hiring Rees and Quinn and then we’re gonna hire Watt to coach what SHOULD be one of the best OLs in the country based off what? Some GA work? A couple good podcast notes? Y’all breaking down Tulane OL film? Unless he’s the OL coach of less than 10 programs in the country (OU, Bama, UGA etc) ND has the entire country of OL coaches and NFL assistant OL coaches as possibilities.

when this came up a few weeks ago Mike & Jamie on ISD said the Watt stuff came from a disgruntled parent of an OL on the team and dismissed it as hearsay. A lot of cooler heads have said the OL issue was as simple as a huge recruiting miss in the 2018 class. Is it as simple as that? IDK, but fans need to be more realistic and expect 8-4 with the hopes of being pleasantly surprised by anything better.
 

Irish#1

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Fire Kelly and get who? We all think Fickell is great because he beat ND yesterday. Getting a new HC guarantees nothing.

This board is acting like we are 1-3, this team is 3-1. We lost a lot from last year, including players and Coach Lea & this team minus a few hiccups is still winning games.

I was joking given the typical over reaction after a loss. Didn’t think italics was necessary.
 

NDFAN2008

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1. OL play is atrocious. Jeff Quinn needed to be fired yesterday. This is the major problem with this team currently. We have a RB who put up crazy numbers last year that can’t even run this year.
2. In regards to 1, why hasn’t Rocco Spindler gotten a shot? All we heard about all spring was how nasty he was he can’t be any worse.
3. Pyne needs to be the QB. Buchner work him in but his arm strength scares me.
4. Defense looks fine and will be fine going forward they really should have only given up 17 points
 

Irish#1

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Most felt this was a rebuild year, so I find the gloom and doom kind of funny. Particularly after losing to the #7 team. There is clearly a problem with the O-line, but this game came down to turnovers. Nothing more, nothing less. Everyone likes to dumpster dive to find every little nugget, but a lot of what is being discussed wouldn't be given much discussion if we had won. QB play has been spotty because of the O-line. Being at the game, it sure looked like Coan was getting the ball out quicker. The opening drive was a good example until the INT which was a head scratcher for sure, but it wasn't the death knell. Put Coan behind any of the lines the last five years and I doubt anyone is complaining about him.

I'm for starting Pyne, but don't set your expectations too high. Pyne has been third string for a reason. He reminds me of Montana with his coolness, but we don't know if he can sustain it. How does he and the O-line play once he starts and the heightened rush of adrenaline fades as starting become his new norm? There's more pressure when you're the starter. I feel pretty confident Quinn will be gone after this season, but I wouldn't complain if he was replaced tomorrow. Fix the line and you fix a myriad of problems.
 

deise mike

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I was only able to follow the game on the ipad as we had visitors but I'm surprised by all the angst. Almost everybody was predicting a 10-2 9-3 season so if this wasn't one of the predicted losses what was.

Many people are saying it could have been won, should have been won. If this is the case, against the no9 ranked team , then surely we are not in such dire straights as some make out.
 

NDRock

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I was only able to follow the game on the ipad as we had visitors but I'm surprised by all the angst. Almost everybody was predicting a 10-2 9-3 season so if this wasn't one of the predicted losses what was.

Many people are saying it could have been won, should have been won. If this is the case, against the no9 ranked team , then surely we are not in such dire straights as some make out.

I think the biggest concern isn’t about this past game, it’s going forward. The two most questionable hires when they happened were at OL and OC. Those are now the biggest problems with this team and the future of those units look kind of murky. I’m really not sure the OL and QB position will be better than mediocre this time next year and we’re counting on the two guys who got us into this mess to fix it. Thus, the he angst.
 

Irish#1

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I think the biggest concern isn’t about this past game, it’s going forward. The two most questionable hires when they happened were at OL and OC. Those are now the biggest problems with this team and the future of those units look kind of murky. I’m really not sure the OL and QB position will be better than mediocre this time next year and we’re counting on the two guys who got us into this mess to fix it. Thus, the he angst.

Quinn is a problem, but Tommy isn't IMO.
 

NDRock

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Quinn is a problem, but Tommy isn't IMO.

The QB position doesn’t look like it’s anywhere near playoff winning caliber. It’s the most important position and history tells us you probably need a 1st/2nd round talent to win in the playoffs. Tommy has been in charge of the position for 5 years.
 

NDdomer2

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The QB position doesn’t look like it’s anywhere near playoff winning caliber. It’s the most important position and history tells us you probably need a 1st/2nd round talent to win in the playoffs. Tommy has been in charge of the position for 5 years.

Name the last QB that was playoff winning caliber? It isn't recent and goes way past Tommy. So if that is the only metric for keeping the job the whole coaching staff should go.

Personally, I'm very happy with the state of the program. That was a winnable game vs a top 10 team in a year we knew we were going to be "down". I see no need for freaking out personally, but to each their own.

All that said, doesnt mean there arent issues to fix. Very unlikely issues ever get fixed in season. You do your best to mask them then address in offseason. If were "masking" our issues to the tune of competing with top 10 teams, again, I'm ok.
 

IrishLion

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I was only able to follow the game on the ipad as we had visitors but I'm surprised by all the angst. Almost everybody was predicting a 10-2 9-3 season so if this wasn't one of the predicted losses what was.

Many people are saying it could have been won, should have been won. If this is the case, against the no9 ranked team , then surely we are not in such dire straights as some make out.

Name the last QB that was playoff winning caliber? It isn't recent and goes way past Tommy. So if that is the only metric for keeping the job the whole coaching staff should go.

Personally, I'm very happy with the state of the program. That was a winnable game vs a top 10 team in a year we knew we were going to be "down". I see no need for freaking out personally, but to each their own.

All that said, doesnt mean there arent issues to fix. Very unlikely issues ever get fixed in season. You do your best to mask them then address in offseason. If were "masking" our issues to the tune of competing with top 10 teams, again, I'm ok.

Ya'll just need to get the hell out of here with that big-picture perspective shit

you-get-out-of-here.gif
 

Free Manera

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I think the biggest concern isn’t about this past game, it’s going forward. The two most questionable hires when they happened were at OL and OC. Those are now the biggest problems with this team and the future of those units look kind of murky. I’m really not sure the OL and QB position will be better than mediocre this time next year and we’re counting on the two guys who got us into this mess to fix it. Thus, the he angst.

Exactly. The biggest concern is that ND is repeating mistakes.

ND made a nepotism hire in the past. It directly caused a 4-8 season which set the program back. It led to the AD stepping in to make staff changes. It led to Kelly 2.0. Everyone hoped 2.0 learned from 1.0's mistakes. Yet here we are with not one, but TWO buddy hires.

Hiring a candidate you are familiar with is totally reasonable; it's the "devil you know" situation. However that only makes sense as a tiebreaker when you have a few good candidates. Familiarity should not trump experience, results, talent, etc.

Whether or not Rees is the current problem with the offense is irrelevant. The problem is he was hired in the first place. Now we have the same scenario where Kelly has two guys on staff that he will never fire because they are buddies.

It will be fine, we just need Kelly 3.0.
 

NDRock

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Name the last QB that was playoff winning caliber? It isn't recent and goes way past Tommy. So if that is the only metric for keeping the job the whole coaching staff should go.

Personally, I'm very happy with the state of the program. That was a winnable game vs a top 10 team in a year we knew we were going to be "down". I see no need for freaking out personally, but to each their own.

All that said, doesnt mean there arent issues to fix. Very unlikely issues ever get fixed in season. You do your best to mask them then address in offseason. If were "masking" our issues to the tune of competing with top 10 teams, again, I'm ok.

I agree on the QB position, it's been the biggest deterrent from ND getting over the hump. I think we've had guys in the past with the raw talent to be those guys. (Kizer, Wimbush, PJ, etc...) but they never panned out for one reason or another. The bigger concern is I don't see anyone on the roster (or committed recruits) that are likely to be that guy. Hopefully TB12 can develop into that but he seems very raw.

Knowing that it was the biggest issue the program faced in making the next step, I think the OC hire after Long was huge and disappointing that we gave it to such an inexperienced guy. I think if Tommy never played here he would be getting way more heat. At least as much as Quinn.
 

NDdomer2

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Exactly. The biggest concern is that ND is repeating mistakes.

ND made a nepotism hire in the past. It directly caused a 4-8 season which set the program back. It led to the AD stepping in to make staff changes. It led to Kelly 2.0. Everyone hoped 2.0 learned from 1.0's mistakes. Yet here we are with not one, but TWO buddy hires.

Hiring a candidate you are familiar with is totally reasonable; it's the "devil you know" situation. However that only makes sense as a tiebreaker when you have a few good candidates. Familiarity should not trump experience, results, talent, etc.

Whether or not Rees is the current problem with the offense is irrelevant. The problem is he was hired in the first place. Now we have the same scenario where Kelly has two guys on staff that he will never fire because they are buddies.

It will be fine, we just need Kelly 3.0.

What do you mean? The past situation you are referencing had his "buddies" fired. So why would that not happen in the current situation if deserving? Seems as though BK has been here long enough and has made an equal number of inside and outside his circle hires and they have all come and gone for various reasons including firing. Just feel like were doing some narrative controlling here.
 

Free Manera

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What do you mean? The past situation you are referencing had his "buddies" fired. So why would that not happen in the current situation if deserving? Seems as though BK has been here long enough and has made an equal number of inside and outside his circle hires and they have all come and gone for various reasons including firing. Just feel like were doing some narrative controlling here.

The past scenario turned into a dumpster fire leading to the AD stepping in to take control of the program. That is not ideal. You can hire friends with no experience to work the counter at your deli. You can't hire friends to run the offense and coach the offensive line at ND.

I mean, you can; he did. But you shouldn't.
 

notredomer23

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I know a lot of people aren't happy with Rees, but idk how any determination can be made on his play calling when traffic cones would be as effective as the current offensive line. ND has an all-American caliber backfield whose biggest contribution this year is their blocking because of how bad the offensive line is... Rees deserves a bit of a leash here, meanwhile Quinn needs to be fired yesterday. Bring in Chris Watt to fix this. If recruiting rankings are accurate, the talent is there. Now someone needs to develop it.

Pyne needs a full game to know what you really have IMO. 3 quarters over 2 games in relief doesn't show you much. No Buchner drives. Pyne for four quarters.
 

NDRock

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I know a lot of people aren't happy with Rees, but idk how any determination can be made on his play calling when traffic cones would be as effective as the current offensive line. ND has an all-American caliber backfield whose biggest contribution this year is their blocking because of how bad the offensive line is... Rees deserves a bit of a leash here, meanwhile Quinn needs to be fired yesterday. Bring in Chris Watt to fix this. If recruiting rankings are accurate, the talent is there. Now someone needs to develop it.

Pyne needs a full game to know what you really have IMO. 3 quarters over 2 games in relief doesn't show you much. No Buchner drives. Pyne for four quarters.

Quick question on Rees, how’s his recruiting? I don’t follow it much but the impression I get is Freeman is a stud out there on the recruiting trail and Tommy not so much. Is this accurate?

Edit: Just looked at 247 and 3 of our 4 highest rated guys are linebackers. That’s how you upgrade your position group.
 
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Pops Freshenmeyer

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So Sampson is saying things Driskell has been saying for a while.

Come at me bros!

After listening this morning, it was Matt Fortuna who made the claim.

Players hanging with their old coach and talking shop isn't necessarily indicating anything about Quinn. So the characterization of these interactions does a lot of heavy lifting. As such it would mean more coming from somebody like Sampson.
 

Cackalacky2.0

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Name the last QB that was playoff winning caliber? It isn't recent and goes way past Tommy. So if that is the only metric for keeping the job the whole coaching staff should go.

Personally, I'm very happy with the state of the program. That was a winnable game vs a top 10 team in a year we knew we were going to be "down". I see no need for freaking out personally, but to each their own.

All that said, doesnt mean there arent issues to fix. Very unlikely issues ever get fixed in season. You do your best to mask them then address in offseason. If were "masking" our issues to the tune of competing with top 10 teams, again, I'm ok.

This is almost 90% of where I am at. The other 10% wonders why we have a 3 QB system in year 12 of BK. Cant reconcile the two though.
 

notredomer23

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Quick question on Rees, how’s his recruiting? I don’t follow it much but the impression I get is Freeman is a stud out there on the recruiting trail and Tommy not so much. Is this accurate?

Edit: Just looked at 247 and 3 of our 4 highest rated guys are linebackers. That’s how you upgrade your position group.

Pretty sure Rees was instrumental in getting Colzie in the fold as well as CJ Williams. Not sure who else he has contributed to, but I don't think he's a slouch.
 

NDRock

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This is almost 90% of where I am at. The other 10% wonders why we have a 3 QB system in year 12 of BK. Cant reconcile the two though.

BK is interesting. On one hand, given our roster talent, I don’t think there are many (if any) coaches in America who could have won as many games as he has the last four years. As far as the playoffs, no team has ever won a playoff game without a bunch of 5* player and/or a 1st round talent at QB. If you just bet the playoffs based on who had more 5* players in each matchup, you would have won like 85% of the time.

The frustrating part is, knowing this, he doesn’t seem to get any closer to closing that gap. It’s obviously not easy to just magically produce 1st round QBs but it doesn’t seem like it’s that big of a priority.

Either way, I just look at the roster at the start of the year (and QB) and adjust my expectations. Overall, I’ve been very happy with this run since ‘17, mostly because I knew we had a 0% chance of winning a title.
 

NDohio

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Part of the crowd issue is the small enrollment at ND. Most other big time football programs have a MUCH larger student population that fills a bigger percentage of the stadium. ND has to sell more tickets to fans/alumni than those large state schools. Imagine the stadium atmosphere if there were another 5,000 students filling seats.

Matt Fortuna is a tool along the lines of Driscoll. I really like Pete Sampson but I have deleted The Shamrock cause every time I listen to it I get really frustrated with Fortuna. I am not saying there is no way some of the O-Line players wouldn't go and talk to HH, but I can see Fortuna turning it into a bigger situation than it really is. That being said - yes it is time for a change in the O-Line coaching.

Very frustrating game to watch. That first interception was a real killer. The play call was perfect and Austin was wide open in the back of the end zone.

Giving Cincy the head start from the turnovers was the game.

I am getting very concerned about TB12 and his throwing capabilities. The only decent pass we have seen from him so far this season was the flip to Tyree that resulted in a TD. He has been shaky at best on all his other throws and the lack of giving him opportunities to throw says something as well.

Loved seeing the frosh receivers get some playing time and passes thrown their direction. That is very encouraging.

Congrats to Cincy - this was the biggest win in program history. Too bad the selection committee will find some way of keeping them out of the playoffs...
 

Irishize

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Part of the crowd issue is the small enrollment at ND. Most other big time football programs have a MUCH larger student population that fills a bigger percentage of the stadium. ND has to sell more tickets to fans/alumni than those large state schools. Imagine the stadium atmosphere if there were another 5,000 students filling seats.

Matt Fortuna is a tool along the lines of Driscoll. I really like Pete Sampson but I have deleted The Shamrock cause every time I listen to it I get really frustrated with Fortuna. I am not saying there is no way some of the O-Line players wouldn't go and talk to HH, but I can see Fortuna turning it into a bigger situation than it really is. That being said - yes it is time for a change in the O-Line coaching.

Very frustrating game to watch. That first interception was a real killer. The play call was perfect and Austin was wide open in the back of the end zone.

Giving Cincy the head start from the turnovers was the game.

I am getting very concerned about TB12 and his throwing capabilities. The only decent pass we have seen from him so far this season was the flip to Tyree that resulted in a TD. He has been shaky at best on all his other throws and the lack of giving him opportunities to throw says something as well.

Loved seeing the frosh receivers get some playing time and passes thrown their direction. That is very encouraging.

Congrats to Cincy - this was the biggest win in program history. Too bad the selection committee will find some way of keeping them out of the playoffs...

Agree w/ most of your post. The rest of Cincy’s schedule is trash so if ND continues to struggle on offense, that win won’t be nearly as impressive as they think it is now.
 

Blazers46

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This is almost 90% of where I am at. The other 10% wonders why we have a 3 QB system in year 12 of BK. Cant reconcile the two though.

This. I think a lot of BKs success has been stability. Stability in that he’s been here for a long time. What does BK really bring to the table though? We all know he doesn’t recruit. In regard to the QBs, his player player development and even player evaluation is subpar at best. If I knew much more about football maybe i could make that argument for other positions as well. I find my self asking myself “why isn’t player X getting more reps” every season and it goes beyond the QB position. Is he a good Xs and Os guy? Is he a good motivator? If BK had a Madden rating what is his thing?
 

ACamp1900

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Name the last QB that was playoff winning caliber? It isn't recent and goes way past Tommy. So if that is the only metric for keeping the job the whole coaching staff should go.

Personally, I'm very happy with the state of the program. That was a winnable game vs a top 10 team in a year we knew we were going to be "down". I see no need for freaking out personally, but to each their own.

All that said, doesnt mean there arent issues to fix. Very unlikely issues ever get fixed in season. You do your best to mask them then address in offseason. If were "masking" our issues to the tune of competing with top 10 teams, again, I'm ok.

I agree for the most part and have been here for a while... I'm 'happy' overall but am also willing to try for that final step to a natty... I am pretty worried about the next 13 plus months, however... I see a lot of losable games.
 

Whiskeyjack

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Here's the post-Cinci Rakes Report:

1) If you want to live on the knife’s edge with a rickety offense and defense that hasn’t totally patched up the passing explosiveness holes from last year, you absolutely can’t turn it over three times in the first half and stake your more-than-capable opponent to a lead. If you’re going to try and rotate quarterbacks, you can’t misread the situation this badly, waiting until the second half to play the guy who was best last week (and then pulling him for one play in the middle of his first successful drive for some reason?). A profoundly frustrating game in which the Irish had a chance to notch another win over a Top 10 team, where you can point to a dozen different coaching decisions and player miscues as reasons for the loss. It’s tough to swallow and…actually kind of how this works a lot of the time when you lose, albeit on the extreme end of number of obvious things going wrong.

The Irish haven’t lost many close games (this technically was not a one-score game but it was 17-13 in the fourth so we can call it close) of late, but generally in college football if you are losing you are either A) Getting blown to absolute hell B) Playing in some supremely annoying game where you can point to any number of things that if they had gone differently you could and perhaps would have won but fate had other ideas. (Occasionally you also get “Played well against a superior opponent and can hold your head high while the tears come,” but those are awful in their own way.) Notre Dame has been on the right side of the ledger so much more often than not you can forget how awful this feels and I have to say I am not a fan of this level of disappointment, the earliest the playoffs have gone poof since 2016. By three key advanced metrics (Don’t Lose, Don’t Let The Home Win Streak End and Certainly Don’t Give The Opposition Their Biggest Win In School History), Saturday was a failure. Whether the season is considered that or not is still very much up for grabs.

2) One of the reasons Notre Dame won against Wisconsin is because they had Kevin Austin and Chris Tyree, a different caliber of skill player from the opposition capable of breaking a game. Against Cincinnati, both of them broke the game but in a bad way, with Tyree putting the Bearcats in position for a score and Austin failing to come through on some big targets. On the plus side, Kyren Williams was a beast, as always, Michael Mayer powered through injury and Braden Lenzy finally was able to connect with a deep one after a season of being mistargeted or missed completely when he broke open. (Lenzy also climbed the ladder on a big conversion.) The coaching staff also turned to the true freshmen of Deion Colzie and Lorenzo Styles late and the youths came through, but it just adds to the murky offensive identity (or more accurately, lack thereof).

Drew Pyne pretty clearly has to start going forward, and maybe that doesn’t work but you have to try it and go from there. (Negative one-thousand points to Tommy Rees for continuing to call plays that require a quarterback-run threat to fully unlock with Jack Coan in the game.) The concerning issue is we’re almost halfway through the season and we don’t really know what this team is good at on offense. In 2019 they could go to Ian Book-to-Chase Claypool, and in 2020 it was the run game behind a sweet offensive line and Tommy Tremble, but now it’s, what, trying to power the ball to Mayer or Avery Davis in the middle of the field before pressure gets through? Pyne seems like the best combination of knowing the full playbook (Coan) and some scrambling prowess (Tyler Buchner) and now it’s on Rees and company to maximize his abilities. Unfortunately for us, the better Pyne plays the more this game and the misappropriation of quarterback snaps against the Bearcats will sting, but unless anyone knows some sort of loophole to get a redo we’ll just have to live with that reality.

Offensive line was…slightly better, maybe? Still not nearly good enough. There was some push early in the game up the middle, but whether it was performance or playcalling they couldn’t sustain it. Hopefully they can find something with Andrew Kristofic and Joe Alt getting more snaps, which all bodes well for next season but doesn’t help the problems for this year, and now whatever combination they use will have to deal with major crowd noise for the first time since Tallahassee. Also this isn’t offensive line specific but could have used a bit more urgency on those fourth quarter drives.

(Considering Brian Kelly’s reputation as a curmudgeonly hard-ass, it’s interesting to note some of his biggest personnel misfires have been due to loyalty to an injured quarterback. Following Dayne Crist’s injury in 2010 and Malik Zaire’s in 2015, Kelly didn’t just hand the keys to the program over to their successful replacements but instead held competitions, decisions that helped lead to disappointing seasons. He didn’t want to move on from Coan after an injury and perhaps cost his team a win on Saturday.)

(I wonder how much of the quarterback situation was the staff hoping that Coan could be a smooth one-season fix before transitioning to Buchner without too much of a spring derby. If Pyne is as good as we hope he can be, you’re looking at another messy competition in 2022. I also wonder if they just wanted to try and make sure Coan stuck the season out, because if he didn’t get the job and peaced out before four games a la Charley Brewer at Utah, the depth chart would have been Pyne, an injured Brendon Clark and two true freshmen. This is all rank speculation but just working through various theories that have popped up in my broken brain when the reality is probably just “Coan looked better in practice.”)

(Also does everyone properly appreciate Ian Book now? He almost certainly wins that game, between his turnover minimization and ability to pull out just enough big plays.)

3) The defense put Notre Dame in position to have an early lead again, with Cincinnati starting the game with drives of 15, 18, zero, 9, 12 and 18 yards. Desmond Ridder then started to get loose, continuing to target Clarence Lewis — after one lovely breakup deep — to much success. There are some real questions about the non-Kyle Hamilton and Cam Hart parts of the secondary, and even Hamilton got got on a touchdown Saturday. Monster play by Isaiah Foskey and Drew White to spark some life with the fumble, and Foskey has been what we had hoped this year despite a quiet camp. Unfortunately, when the Irish needed one last big stop after making it 17-13, J.D. Bertrand had his worst series of the year, getting worked over as Ridder iced things. This defense is really good but it’s not at a level where it can just carry a team on its own, particularly with the level of offenses the Irish are about to face elevating from the tepid September slate.

Ridder is a fun college quarterback for a team with this type of defense: Inconsistent for stretches, but capable of uncorking just enough deep balls and hair-pulling scrambles over the course of the game to do the needed damage. He would be a nightmare to stop on NCAA Football and we begrudgingly tip our cap to his ability to come through with a couple of dagger drives at the end of both halves.

4) Winning Is Hard/Schadenfreude Round-Up: I’ve preferred to do this only after Notre Dame wins, as obviously I do not have to remind you, the person who just watched your favorite team lose, about the difficulty of achieving victory. But this season is crazy thus far, this section is fun to write and people enjoy it I’m going to just do it in full the rest of the way. Talking about everyone else’s failures doesn’t excuse all the holes in this Irish team but it is nice to know that our misery has so much company.

No. 3 Oregon went down early at Stanford, rallied back for the lead and then let David Shaw fade route them to death, eventually falling in overtime, so we reset the Days Since Mario Cristobal Did Something Disappointing Counter. The Irish and Ducks weren’t the only Top 10 teams to lose, as Arkansas got sent to the moon by Georgia and Florida fell as a road favorite in Lexington via basically one long Kentucky passing touchdown, a blocked field goal returned for a touchdown and a lengthy interception return. The Wildcats won with just 224 yards of offense, but Gator penalties (15 for 115 yards) proved too damaging.

Did Texas A&M fall at home to Mississippi State as a touchdown favorite, already earning the second loss for what was a Top 5 team last year? Yes, but at least they don’t have to play Alabama next - ah I’m being told they play Alabama next. Speaking of the Tide, they gave Lane Kiffin and Ole Miss their first loss of the season in violent fashion. And while we’re on the SEC West, LSU lost at home to Bo Nix and Auburn. Is Coach O gonna get fired? Probably! Central Florida lost to Navy while Memphis lost to Temple. Northwestern lost to Nebraska 56-7.

4-0 Maryland had an opportunity to take a step into the national spotlight hosting Top 5 Iowa at home but they were shattered into tiny pieces, their high-flying passing offense turning it over at a wild clip. Remember how exciting the UCLA and Fresno State game was and how they were both ranked? Well, they both lost, with UCLA getting handled at home by Herm Edwards’ Arizona State team and Fresno losing at Hawaii. Jimmy Lake’s tenure in Seattle took another hit as Washington lost to Oregon State. Clemson needed multiple botched snaps to survive at home against Boston College, and Oklahoma narrowly avoided another scare, this time against Kansas State. Wisconsin and Miami — the preseason No. 12 and No. 14 teams, respectively — already have their third losses. There are a lot of really, really disappointing teams and a slew of carnage still to come.

5) It’s easy to discuss how good a team’s chemistry and culture is when they’re winning, as seldom do you see features talking about how strong the locker room is for a last-place squad. If Notre Dame’s program is what we think it is, then the big test comes on Saturday in not letting this disappointment carry over. The Irish have not lost consecutive regular season games since 2016, and coincidentally the last time they dropped a regular season contest at all the next team they played was the Hokies, albeit in South Bend. Between that last second escape by Book and embarrassing the hosts on Metallica Intro Night in 2018, Virginia Tech will be pining to get this one and smelling blood in the water off their bye week.

Looking at SP+ and FEI, this is the toughest defense the Irish will play the rest of the way, and it’ll be in primetime in Lane Stadium, where North Carolina fell victim earlier this year. There are a few minor questions about the offense, including who will be quarterback, is Mayer healthy and will Austin be able to bounce back like he did after a poor performance against Purdue? On defense, mostly feel good, but did Ridder’s success put something on film that can be exploited by others and/or are the linebackers starting to wear down a bit with the limited depth? This coaching staff and the captains need to keep the wheels on for another week and get to the bye at 5-1.

If you look to national media for your validation for a Notre Dame season, these next couple months aren’t going to be fun because the Irish are going to be well outside of the conversation save for people checking in on Cincinnati’s best win. (It is grimly funny that anyone who wants a Group of Five team to break the playoff status quo must now root for the Irish along with us. Welcome to this terrible club, friends!) With the unhinged chaos throughout the country this season even Notre Dame is capable of flying under the radar if they just string together some nice, boring, nondescript wins that keep them comfortably ranked and in New Year’s Six contention. It’s perfectly okay to take a slight step back when you lost as much talent as Notre Dame did after two playoff runs in three years, but the key word there is “slight.”

Keeping the losses to a minimum continues on Saturday. Go Irish, Beat Hokies. Don’t let the Bearcats topple you twice.
 

Rogue219

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I had high expectations for Brian Kelly when he was hired because of his reputation as a guy who had developed quarterbacks at CMU and UC. Saturday came down to, at least for me, yet another display that Kelly's tenure at ND has had multiple disappointments at the position within the bigger picture.

Having the rifleman behind center is what will likely lead you to a National Championship. I can't think of a five star kid in his right mind that would come to Notre Dame if the boy has any ambition to play football in the NFL.

Give Pyne the first team reps and let him start. Only if he gets injured or suspended should anyone else take a meaningful snap for the rest of the season.
 

Sea Turtle

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Cincinnati definitely played with the eye of the tiger. They wanted it more. They were hungry.
 

ab2cmiller

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This is the only thing that makes any sense to me. BK knew Buchner wouldn't be ready this year to take the reigns. Hoped that Coan could bridge the gap because he knew that if Pyne started he would eventually have a problematic QB controversy when it was Buchner's time to take over.

Here's the post-Cinci Rakes Report:

(I wonder how much of the quarterback situation was the staff hoping that Coan could be a smooth one-season fix before transitioning to Buchner without too much of a spring derby. If Pyne is as good as we hope he can be, you’re looking at another messy competition in 2022. I also wonder if they just wanted to try and make sure Coan stuck the season out, because if he didn’t get the job and peaced out before four games a la Charley Brewer at Utah, the depth chart would have been Pyne, an injured Brendon Clark and two true freshmen. This is all rank speculation but just working through various theories that have popped up in my broken brain when the reality is probably just “Coan looked better in practice.”)
 

Pops Freshenmeyer

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Part of the crowd issue is the small enrollment at ND. Most other big time football programs have a MUCH larger student population that fills a bigger percentage of the stadium. ND has to sell more tickets to fans/alumni than those large state schools. Imagine the stadium atmosphere if there were another 5,000 students filling seats.

Matt Fortuna is a tool along the lines of Driscoll. I really like Pete Sampson but I have deleted The Shamrock cause every time I listen to it I get really frustrated with Fortuna. I am not saying there is no way some of the O-Line players wouldn't go and talk to HH, but I can see Fortuna turning it into a bigger situation than it really is. That being said - yes it is time for a change in the O-Line coaching.

Very frustrating game to watch. That first interception was a real killer. The play call was perfect and Austin was wide open in the back of the end zone.

Giving Cincy the head start from the turnovers was the game.

I am getting very concerned about TB12 and his throwing capabilities. The only decent pass we have seen from him so far this season was the flip to Tyree that resulted in a TD. He has been shaky at best on all his other throws and the lack of giving him opportunities to throw says something as well.

Loved seeing the frosh receivers get some playing time and passes thrown their direction. That is very encouraging.

Congrats to Cincy - this was the biggest win in program history. Too bad the selection committee will find some way of keeping them out of the playoffs...

Against Purdue he threw an outside screen to Austin that was straight dropped.

I think the staff is afraid to have him reading coverages in the passing game right now rather than a fear of him throwing the ball.

I understand the impulse to protect him due to inexperience but I would like to see him throw against some man coverages.

Although I now wonder if Buchner's package does more harm than good if Pyne is the starter.

I hated the Coan transfer because it meant taking reps away from the younger guys for a stopgap player in a year that looked to be a bit of a down cycle. I do wonder whether Pyne and Buchner would have gotten some real value from getting all the reps last spring through this fall.
 

Blazers46

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This is the only thing that makes any sense to me. BK knew Buchner wouldn't be ready this year to take the reigns. Hoped that Coan could bridge the gap because he knew that if Pyne started he would eventually have a problematic QB controversy when it was Buchner's time to take over.

If that is the worry I do not want Brian Kelly as the coach. Quarterback controversies or battles are a good thing. Especially in today’s college football landscape where the loser just transfers. So then you don’t have the baggage of the loser being on the team still. The problem with that I guess is we would like depth at the quarterback position and we would not probably except another quarterback transfer for another 10 years but we would at least know who our quarterback is. Right now anyone of the three could roll out there next week.
 
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