2016 Presidential Horse Race

2016 Presidential Horse Race


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connor_in

Oh Yeeaah!!!
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Accurate. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/DemsInPhilly?src=hash">#DemsInPhilly</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/DNCinPHL?src=hash">#DNCinPHL</a> <a href="https://t.co/tGYCAKARrg">https://t.co/tGYCAKARrg</a></p>— Susan Sarandon (@SusanSarandon) <a href="https://twitter.com/SusanSarandon/status/757745744057106434">July 26, 2016</a></blockquote>
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woolybug25

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I've often been tempted to say the same to you, Wooly. Ranting about every opinion you disagree with and responding with nothing but insults & name calling instead of being able to actually refute those opinions with facts & thought is much more along the lines of what I'd expect from a teen than an adult. Perhaps it's you who should let the grownups talk about the serious stuff.

It was a joke for one, and for two, don't you ever wonder if it's pathetic that a grown man that isn't a) a Notre Dame fan or B) have any connection to the university spend all of his time on an ND forum? Don't you have friends or a hillbilly Bama site you can go harass people on?
 

EddytoNow

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I've often been tempted to say the same to you, Wooly. Ranting about every opinion you disagree with and responding with nothing but insults & name calling instead of being able to actually refute those opinions with facts & thought is much more along the lines of what I'd expect from a teen than an adult. Perhaps it's you who should let the grownups talk about the serious stuff.

Are you describing the Republican presidential nominee? It sure fits him.
 

ACamp1900

Counting my ‘bet against ND’ winnings
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He's saying you sound like an idiot. Like Michael Scott trying to get in on an inside joke but failing miserably.

Acamp and I are good - it's been like 7 years together on this site. And fwiw, I only call the racists, racists. It's not rocket science. When Trump-bots like yourself say racist shit, well, I'll speak out, and have no problem doing so. The anti-PC softies who are thinner-skinned than the pathetic PC crowd are the ones with a problem...

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woolybug25

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LOL! I rest my case.

Any chance we can get you to rest it over on a Bama site?

To be honest, you've worn out your welcome with a bunch of posters here. It's not like you're the first poster from another fanbase to post here, the ones that are still here all have one thing in common, they don't pick fights with members. They don't troll the politics threads. They don't get in arguments about their team. There have been a lot of non ND posters on here that have contributed to the board (TommyT for instance), you're not one of those guys.
 

phgreek

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...to talk about it is to acknowledge it, to acknowledge it is to own it...to own it is something Pants Suit Lucifer would never do. So since it is her coronation, I'm sure word went out to MSNBC, CNN and the like, as well as the speakers not to bring it up.

OR...

They were showing extraordinary discipline, and staying on message which is to adhere to existing foreign policy...which is, the same thing.
 

Bishop2b5

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Any chance we can get you to rest it over on a Bama site?

To be honest, you've worn out your welcome with a bunch of posters here. It's not like you're the first poster from another fanbase to post here, the ones that are still here all have one thing in common, they don't pick fights with members. They don't troll the politics threads. They don't get in arguments about their team. There have been a lot of non ND posters on here that have contributed to the board (TommyT for instance), you're not one of those guys.

Don't deflect, Wooly. If you can't argue your position with facts, reason, and substance instead of name calling and insults, don't get mad at me for pointing it out.
 

ACamp1900

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Any chance we can get you to rest it over on a Bama site?

To be honest, you've worn out your welcome with a bunch of posters here. It's not like you're the first poster from another fanbase to post here, the ones that are still here all have one thing in common, they don't pick fights with members. They don't troll the politics threads. They don't get in arguments about their team. There have been a lot of non ND posters on here that have contributed to the board (TommyT for instance), you're not one of those guys.

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woolybug25

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Don't deflect, Wooly. If you can't argue your position with facts, reason, and substance instead of name calling and insults, don't get mad at me for pointing it out.

What fact specifically are you talking about? You just took a joke between two posters and tried to turn into a personal attack on me. There was no point you were arguing, just trying to blast on me.

Again, I never asked or wanted the opinion of a Bama fan. If I did, I would go to one of their sites for it.
 

gkIrish

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He was elected as an independent, so it would be kinda weird to change his political party halfway through his term.

Also... He was never a democrat. That's just the ticket he had to play to have a chance. He has always been a socialist.

I'm aware of all that. I just think it highlights how broken our system is.
 

EddytoNow

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He was elected as an independent, so it would be kinda weird to change his political party halfway through his term.

Also... He was never a democrat. That's just the ticket he had to play to have a chance. He has always been a socialist.

Plenty of other politicians have changed parties when they feel the wind shifting. Bernie never was a Democrat, although most of his policies align nicely with progressive Democrats. He was a Democrat just long enough to run for president. I'm not surprised that he will return to his Independent stance now that his run for president has ended. He will be 78 in 2020. I don't think we'll see him make anymore presidential runs, so there's no need to remain a Democrat. But Donald Trump is the polar opposite of Bernie on most issues. That's enough to keep Bernie in the Democratic fold this election cycle.
 

phgreek

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Plenty of other politicians have changed parties when they feel the wind shifting. Bernie never was a Democrat, although most of his policies align nicely with progressive Democrats. He was a Democrat just long enough to run for president. I'm not surprised that he will return to his Independent stance now that his run for president has ended. He will be 78 in 2020. I don't think we'll see him make anymore presidential runs, so there's no need to remain a Democrat. But Donald Trump is the polar opposite of Bernie on most issues. That's enough to keep Bernie in the Democratic fold this election cycle.

Who does Bernie caucus with? Who benefits from Bernie's presence? He is a functional Democrat. You make it sound like he is this whimsical guy, who can just go back to being a minion. We don't know what he'd have done had he not been slimed.

What would you do if you just went through what Bernie did. He was just shown that the establishment doesn't want him...and is willing to weigh in during an election to beat him with an establishment candidate. In a scenario, if he is a D, he can't win. If he wants to stay on, I see he has no other choice. Also, why be associated with the DNC brand, when he is his own brand...and while I do not agree with Bernie's policy ideas, I think he is a standup guy...which is more than I can say for the DNC leadership.
 

gkIrish

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Our poll results so far are interesting. Gary Johnson getting 20%. I would add my vote in for him too if I thought it would actually do something. I doubt we are representative of the country as a whole but if he could get even 10% that would throw a lot of things off.
 

NorthDakota

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He's saying you sound like an idiot. Like Michael Scott trying to get in on an inside joke but failing miserably.

Acamp and I are good - it's been like 7 years together on this site. And fwiw, I only call the racists, racists. It's not rocket science. When Trump-bots like yourself say racist shit, well, I'll speak out, and have no problem doing so. The anti-PC softies who are thinner-skinned than the pathetic PC crowd are the ones with a problem...

Hey cool, I'll add that info to my dossier on you guys and update my org chart.

Feel free to look for racist posts of mine. You are a very angry man.
 

IrishLion

I am Beyonce, always.
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Our poll results so far are interesting. Gary Johnson getting 20%. I would add my vote in for him too if I thought it would actually do something. I doubt we are representative of the country as a whole but if he could get even 10% that would throw a lot of things off.

God I hope not.

It baffles my mind that people would vote for the Donald.
 

wizards8507

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Our poll results so far are interesting. Gary Johnson getting 20%. I would add my vote in for him too if I thought it would actually do something. I doubt we are representative of the country as a whole but if he could get even 10% that would throw a lot of things off.
Also interesting is the distribution of IE premium members.

1 of 13 Hillary Clinton voters (8%)
1 of 20 Donald Trump voters (5%)
2 of 11 Gary Johnson voters (18%)
3 of 4 No Vote / Abstain voters (75%)
1 of 5 Other / Write-in voters (20%)
 

Whiskeyjack

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The Week's Michael Brendan Dougherty just published an article titled, "A new nationalism is rising. Don't let Donald Trump destroy it.":

Across the Western world, post-Cold War politics have long been characterized by an orthodoxy of free trade, nurturing the service economy, neoliberal trading arrangements, and liberalized immigration policies. But now, in many of these countries, there is a broad nativist revolt against such politics.

This revolt is the politics of the provinces against the capital cities. These nativists are trying to reassert their cultural and economic interests, which they believe have been denigrated by a political settlement that enriches the elite and provides opportunity to foreigners at the expense of the old industrial and rural heartlands. Let's call the phenomenon "the new nationalism."

In America, of course, the new nationalism is best seen in the ascendancy of GOP presidential nominee Donald Trump.

The new nationalism challenges our post-1989 political orthodoxies. It questions whether Western governments should continue to facilitate the ever-freer movement of capital, goods, and people. In America, it questions whether the U.S. should continue as an unchallengeable global hegemon, promising to defend the integrity of Estonia's borders against Russian invasion the same way it would Oregon's.

If the new nationalism is going to achieve real political power and influence in America, it will be a major paradigm change in our politics. And that's exactly why it is so dangerous for new nationalists to support such an obvious incompetent and charlatan as Donald Trump.

There is a strong and real case for the new nationalism. Don't let Trump destroy it.

Even if you could somehow swallow the ways in which Trump has made the pitch for American nationalism narrower, more exclusively white, and vastly more hostile to American minorities than necessary, there is the towering problem of Trump's sheer boobishness and incompetence. If anything, the bar for performance should be raised for leaders who promise to upend a generation of political certainties. A bunch of time-servers and idiots can make a well-established, existing system work reasonably well. They have the incumbent interests, the rentier classes, and the people who make their livelihoods off the old system to keep them in check. But a man leading a revolution should be able to reassure us with his discipline, his gravity, and even his caution. Trump has none of these.

Consider the interview he gave to The New York Times the week of his nomination, in which he casually put into doubt America's security guarantees for Eastern Europe. This was plainly dangerous. An American president who judged that the 1990s expansion of NATO left the United States with too much security risk and liability would have to begin untangling or reforming this alliance with great care. Putting the whole damn thing into doubt in a news clipping, without any warning or consultation, is an invitation to either Russian escalation or Baltic panic. Both of these increase the chance of catastrophic diplomatic or military miscalculation.

Like a lot of famous rich people, Trump is subject to many lawsuits. The problem is that these lawsuits aren't frivolous money-sniffing lotto tickets from the plaintiffs. Instead they are for the kind of fraud and abuse associated with late-night infomercial grifters. See the Trump University scam, where instructors were taught how to push customers into upping their credit limits to go deeper into debt for Trump. For a supposed billionaire, Trump lends his name and likeness to a lot of scummy businesses. His campaign is stuffed with people who think it is a good idea to share memes from racist Twitter accounts, or that you can win votes from Latinos by sending out a picture of a Trump Tower Taco Bowl.

If you support new nationalist ideas — like regulated immigration, renegotiated trade, and a more hands-off foreign policy — aren't you a little worried that Trump will do to these ideas what he did to Atlantic City? Champion them for a little while, try to build up his brand, and then leave a gaping disaster behind him?

Hillary Clinton is the candidate of big trade deals, liberalized immigration, and using America's military to manage civil wars and conflicts across the global. She, too, is incompetent. She chooses the wrong battles: See her intervention in Libya that has blown up in everyone's faces. She responded to queries about whether her email servers were "wiped" with the lame retort, "With a cloth?" Her homebrew email server was likely hacked by foreign intelligence.

If you're at all sympathetic to the new nationalism, wouldn't you prefer the incompetent Hillary Clinton discrediting her beliefs than the incompetent Donald Trump discrediting yours?

I'm sympathetic to some elements of Trumpism, but I can hardly imagine of a worse candidate to champion it.
 
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gkIrish

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Also interesting is the distribution of IE premium members.

1 of 13 Hillary Clinton voters (8%)
1 of 20 Donald Trump voters (5%)
2 of 11 Gary Johnson voters (18%)
3 of 4 No Vote / Abstain voters (75%)
1 of 5 Other / Write-in voters (20%)

I can see what you are inferring but I think that's a stretch.
 

wizards8507

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If you're at all sympathetic to the new nationalism, wouldn't you prefer the incompetent Hillary Clinton discrediting her beliefs than the incompetent Donald Trump discrediting yours?
There are a few things wrong with this conclusion:

1. It presupposes that Trump and Clinton's presidential incompetence would be equal. If you're of the opinion that Trump and Clinton are both incompetent but Clinton is more incompetent, then it doesn't matter whose ideology gets blamed for the incompetence.

2. It carries a connotation that the damage done over the next four to eight years is temporary. I reject the notion that preserving credibility for 2020 or 2024 is worth the damage that can be done in the mean time.

3. The last eight years have proven that progressive policies never get blamed for anything, largely because the Left controls both the media and the pop culture. Whenever anything goes wrong, it's blamed on conservatism. If the problem is clearly the fault of progressivism, it's because a policy wasn't progressive enough to be successful. If Hillary fails, the reaction will not be "maybe we should try conservative nationalism," it'll be "we should have tried Bernie's socialism."
 

phgreek

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The Week's Michael Brendan Dougherty just published an article titled, "A new nationalism is rising. Don't let Donald Trump destroy it.":



I'm sympathetic to some elements of Trumpism, but I can hardly imagine of a worse candidate to champion it.

My only argument when you pit the pitfalls of Trump and Hillary against one another...

no one seems to acknowledge the entanglements the Clinton foundation represents, the international nature of the Clinton brand, and her willingness to sell us out to cover her own ass, or to benefit her interests. SHE is the fabel of the frog and the scorpion waiting to happen. We know her nature. It is indisputable.

I would like to have a third alternative...the ones provided are no alternative. Would Johnson pass a drug test...the one foisted upon ALL civil servants...do we need more two track justice examples in DC? Would the green party be a little less nuts?
 

wizards8507

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The way I figure, Clinton is detestable and so are her surrogates. Trump is detestable, but Mike Pence seems like an okay dude and I expect Trump to outsource policy to him.
 

woolybug25

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The way I figure, Clinton is detestable and so are her surrogates. Trump is detestable, but Mike Pence seems like an okay dude and I expect Trump to outsource policy to him.

Mike Pence is an imbecile. I also have a hard time believing that Trump will outsource policy to anyone. He'll outsource the groundwork, but his platform will be his alone.

What do you think about Kaine? I do think that Hilldog will outsource everything. She doesn't actually care about the day to day governing. Kaine will be pulling the strings here.
 
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