A Song of Ice and Fire (Spoilers! Only enter if you have read all books)

[IrishLion]

He's gonna do a whole Tolkien spin, I'll bet.

Go back in time and write the early annals, etc.

It's gonna happen. And the movies and shows will be ridiculous hits.

Idk if ol' GRRM even has enough left in the tank to finish the main series, let alone start writing his own version of the Silmarillion.

HOWEVER. That would be the tits.

I'd donate important body parts if it meant I got a full series about the rise and fall of Valyria, or about the Conquest, or even a mini-series about Robert's Rebellion.

 

[IrishLion]

Idk if this officially came from the show or not (the headline seemed to indicate that it did, but I have my doubts), but here's an interesting graphic about The Six Degrees of Joy.

The "lines" indicate that Rhaegar is Jon's father... we know that already, based on all the evidence in the books. But if this graphic came from the show (and it DID come from the verified GoT Facebook page), we do NOT yet know that in the show. An interesting move for the inadvertent reveal.

People who haven't read the books only know Rhaegar by name, if at all. But the graphic seems to confirm him as Jon's father. If this indeed came directly from the writers of the show, it's basically a service to the readers, and it seems they are well aware that shownlies probably weren't gonna pick up on the significance without being explicitly told at some point, anyway.

So, while this appears to have come directly from the show, and they're confirming what readers already know, it's still kind of a bummer that they revealed it *officially* through an infographic, rather than waiting to put it out there in bold during season 7. That's why I question as to whether it actually DID come from the writers, or if they simply approve what's been laid out in the graphic.

Tower of Joy Infographic Spoiler

 

[wizards8507]

I'd donate important body parts if it meant I got a full series about the rise and fall of Valyria, or about the Conquest, or even a mini-series about Robert's Rebellion.

I think it would have been brilliant for them to do season six as a flashback to Robert's Rebellion. A young Bobby B smashing skulls with a warhammer in the Riverlands? Yes please.

 

[woolybug25]

Idk if this officially came from the show or not (the headline seemed to indicate that it did, but I have my doubts), but here's an interesting graphic about The Six Degrees of Joy.

The "lines" indicate that Rhaegar is Jon's father... we know that already, based on all the evidence in the books. But if this graphic came from the show (and it DID come from the verified GoT Facebook page), we do NOT yet know that in the show. An interesting move for the inadvertent reveal.

People who haven't read the books only know Rhaegar by name, if at all. But the graphic seems to confirm him as Jon's father. If this indeed came directly from the writers of the show, it's basically a service to the readers, and it seems they are well aware that shownlies probably weren't gonna pick up on the significance without being explicitly told at some point, anyway.

So, while this appears to have come directly from the show, and they're confirming what readers already know, it's still kind of a bummer that they revealed it *officially* through an infographic, rather than waiting to put it out there in bold during season 7. That's why I question as to whether it actually DID come from the writers, or if they simply approve what's been laid out in the graphic.

Tower of Joy Infographic Spoiler

I don't really see the Rheagar thing as a secret if the book readers. They talk about him in the show, the show clearly outlines that he was who "abducted" Lyanna and watchers are set to assume him as Jon's father. Just like the book.

The chart is fun to look at, but I don't feel like it's a spoiler or telling anyone (book or show) what we don't already know.

 

[Emcee77]

I don't really see the Rheagar thing as a secret if the book readers. They talk about him in the show, the show clearly outlines that he was who "abducted" Lyanna and watchers are set to assume him as Jon's father. Just like the book.

The chart is fun to look at, but I don't feel like it's a spoiler or telling anyone (book or show) what we don't already know.

Agreed. I'm kind of surprised it's created such a stir. It's all over my Facebook and Twitter.

 

[wizards8507]

I don't really see the Rheagar thing as a secret if the book readers. They talk about him in the show, the show clearly outlines that he was who "abducted" Lyanna and watchers are set to assume him as Jon's father. Just like the book.

The chart is fun to look at, but I don't feel like it's a spoiler or telling anyone (book or show) what we don't already know.

Agreed. I'm kind of surprised it's created such a stir. It's all over my Facebook and Twitter.

More evidence that many (not all) show-only people are braindead zombies. They probably watched the Tower of Joy scene and thought they were watching Ned's mistress give birth to Ned's bastard son, Jon Snow.

 

[IrishLion]

The chart is fun to look at, but I don't feel like it's a spoiler or telling anyone (book or show) what we don't already know.

Agreed. I'm kind of surprised it's created such a stir. It's all over my Facebook and Twitter.

Really? I don't recall the show explicitly stating that Lyanna was kidnapped to the Tower by Rhaegar.

I probably missed it based on the fact that I already knew it, and wasn't looking for it. I just assumed that an explanation of how Lyanna got there was going to come up organically at some point in season 7 and be the "reveal."

 

[Emcee77]

Really? I don't recall the show explicitly stating that Lyanna was kidnapped to the Tower by Rhaegar.

I probably missed it based on the fact that I already knew it, and wasn't looking for it. I just assumed that an explanation of how Lyanna got there was going to come up organically at some point in season 7 and be the "reveal."

Littlefinger went through the Rhaegar/Lyanna story with Sansa in the crypt at Winterfell in a previous season, and they showed a clip from that scene during the preface* to S06E10. I don't think they mentioned the Tower in the crypt scene, but still I'd have expected any attentive viewer to put 2 and 2 together there.

Do some people not watch those preface clips, maybe? I always find it very helpful.

*"Preface" is certainly not the right term. What is the right term for the clips from previous episodes that they put at the beginning of every episode, to help viewers remember the status of the various storylines? Anyone know?

 

[IrishLion]

Littlefinger went through the Rhaegar/Lyanna story with Sansa in the crypt at Winterfell in a previous season, and they showed a clip from that scene during the preface* to S06E10. I don't think they mentioned the Tower in the crypt scene, but still I'd have expected any attentive viewer to put 2 and 2 together there.

I slightly recall that scene, but I also didn't brush-up on the past seasons like usually do before this one aired.

*"Preface" is certainly not the right term. What is the right term for the clips from previous episodes that they put at the beginning of every episode, to help viewers remember the status of the various storylines? Anyone know?

A recap lol?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Really? I don't recall the show explicitly stating that Lyanna was kidnapped to the Tower by Rhaegar.

I probably missed it based on the fact that I already knew it, and wasn't looking for it. I just assumed that an explanation of how Lyanna got there was going to come up organically at some point in season 7 and be the "reveal."

Right here.

I wonder how definitive that infographic is supposed to be. Seems much more likely that Lyanna eloped with Rhaegar than was kidnapped by him. Also contradicts the whole A + J = C, J (and T?) theory.

 

[IrishLion]

Right here.

I wonder how definitive that infographic is supposed to be. Seems much more likely that Lyanna eloped with Rhaegar than was kidnapped by him. Also contradicts the whole A + J = C, J (and T?) theory.

That was kind of my point in bringing up the post.

Even though it has been revealed that Rhaegar "kidnapped and raped" Lyanna (where the hell was I during that scene?), it still seems odd that they'd put anything out there in an "official" capacity before it has all been plainly stated in the show for Jon Snow to learn himself.

 

[wizards8507]

Even though it has been revealed that Rhaegar "kidnapped and raped" Lyanna (where the hell was I during that scene?), it still seems odd that they'd put anything out there in an "official" capacity before it has all been plainly stated in the show for Jon Snow to learn himself.

I thought it was pretty obvious that Sansa was like "he kidnapped and raped her" and Littlefinger's face was all "OR DID HE!?!? DUN DUN DUUUUUUN!"

 

[wizards8507]

What is the right term for the clips from previous episodes that they put at the beginning of every episode, to help viewers remember the status of the various storylines? Anyone know?

Spoiler bullshit is what I call it. They're way to obvious with that on all of the HBO shows I've ever seen. Prior to the Season 4 finale when Stannis saves Jon from Mance's army, they covered Stannis' conversation with Davos about riding north before the episode and completely ruined the suspense of him showing up to save the day. Part of the joy of GoT and ASoIaF is figuring out which details and plot point are important along the way. The "previously on..." segments are just big neon signs that say "THIS IS WHAT'S IMPORTANT AND WHAT'S COMING ON THIS EPISODE!"

 

[woolybug25]

Really? I don't recall the show explicitly stating that Lyanna was kidnapped to the Tower by Rhaegar.

I probably missed it based on the fact that I already knew it, and wasn't looking for it. I just assumed that an explanation of how Lyanna got there was going to come up organically at some point in season 7 and be the "reveal."

In addition to the scene Emcee and Whiskey provided, there's a whole host of times where it was brought up.

See here

 

[johnnycando]

Spoiler bullshit is what I call it. They're way to obvious with that on all of the HBO shows I've ever seen. Prior to the Season 4 finale when Stannis saves Jon from Mance's army, they covered Stannis' conversation with Davos about riding north before the episode and completely ruined the suspense of him showing up to save the day. Part of the joy of GoT and ASoIaF is figuring out which details and plot point are important along the way. The "previously on..." segments are just big neon signs that say "THIS IS WHAT'S IMPORTANT AND WHAT'S COMING ON THIS EPISODE!"

I love the part in this song. It's awesome the record is broken and skips here.

 

[mgriff]

This person put out a great pre-season six video explaining all the hints for Jon's parents.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3xaspBsfgRg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[woolybug25]

This person put out a great pre-season six video explaining all the hints for Jon's parents.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3xaspBsfgRg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Good find, man.

Reps

 

[ND NYC]

great compilation, plenty of scenes throughout the hbo series about rhaegar (didn't realize there were so much tbqh).
no excuse for shownlies not to know who Rhaeger is.

 

[IrishLion]

I've rewatched ToJ Part II several times tonight.

I've come to the conclusion that Lyanna names him Aerys. My amateur lip-reading skills make it clear that she forms the "a" sound and then her lips quickly come together to form what looks to be an "r".

This still leaves "Jahaerys" on the table, but I contend that Lyanna's lips didn't move enough at the beginning of the word to constitute that first "juh" syllable, or at least based on what was shown. Perhaps it was cut to make the visual misleading to go along with the perfectly-timed whisper.

It might also make sense from Rhaegar's perspective. He knows that his father is the Mad King... perhaps he and Lyanna discussed naming the child Aerys, in hopes that the child might carry the name better than his grandfather once did.

But since I feel pretty good about my lip-reading in combination with my deductive/speculative reasoning, I'm almost certainly wrong, and the name IS Jahaerys, with Rhaegar deciding to use his own grandfather's name for his son.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Here's a post on /r/asoiaf presenting the evidence that Jon's real name is Aemon Targaryen.

 

[IrishLion]

Here's a post on /r/asoiaf presenting the evidence that Jon's real name is Aemon Targaryen.

The problem with that theory is that her lips do NOT come fully together, which would indicate a hard "M" sound.

Her lips come together, but do not fully meet, thus my theory that it's an "R" sound she is making.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

The problem with that theory is that her lips do NOT come fully together, which would indicate a hard "B" sound.

Her lips come together, but do not fully meet, thus my theory that it's an "R" sound she is making.

Honestly, the textual support for Aemon is way more convincing than the amateur lip reading analyses.

 

[IrishLion]

Honestly, the textual support for Aemon is way more convincing than the amateur lip reading analyses.

Yeah that's true. I didn't get past the lip-reading part of the theory before posting my retort.

It's absolutely makes sense based on the evidence the book has given us that he would be named Aemon.

But if you watch the scene, and say the word "Aemon" along with her, you will see that her lips are not doing the same thing that yours are.

 

[gkIrish]

To be blunt, is there any reason I should care what his name is? Who cares if it's Aemon or Aeron?

In other words, would it change the plot at all?

 

[zelezo vlk]

To be blunt, is there any reason I should care what his name is? Who cares if it's Aemon or Aeron?

In other words, would it change the plot at all?

Of course. Now it'll be "You know nothing, Aemon Targaryen"

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[IrishLion]

To be blunt, is there any reason I should care what his name is? Who cares if it's Aemon or Aeron?

In other words, would it change the plot at all?

No, it's just clear that his name is not Jon. It's just interesting to wonder who he could be named after.

It would be fitting and a great honorific to be named Aemon, considering what a swell guy Maester Aemon seemed to be, and also to be named after Aemon the Dragonknight, which Jon used to call himself while playing around Winterfell (and also seems like nice foreshadowing!).

I just don't think that's what she said when she whispered to Ned. But since I'm going to bat about it, I'm surely wrong.

 

[gkIrish]

No, it's just clear that his name is not Jon. It's just interesting to wonder who he could be named after.

It would be fitting and a great honorific to be named Aemon, considering what a swell guy Maester Aemon seemed to be, and also to be named after Aemon the Dragonknight, which Jon used to call himself while playing around Winterfell (and also seems like nice foreshadowing!).

I just don't think that's what she said when she whispered to Ned. But since I'm going to bat about it, I'm surely wrong.

Lol ok. I guess this is what happens when we have to wait 20 years.

 

[wizards8507]

Does it matter? Does anyone actually think he's going to change the name he goes by even if he finds out his "birth name"? He has no loyalty to the Targaryen family, blood be damned. If Jon Snow changes his name to anything, it'll be Jon Stark.

 

[IrishLion]

Does it matter? Does anyone actually think he's going to change the name he goes by even if he finds out his "birth name"? He has no loyalty to the Targaryen family, blood be damned. If Jon Snow changes his name to anything, it'll be Jon Stark.

Yeah, I'd almost be willing to put some cash down on the idea that Jon will have a moment where he learns his real name, and someone asks him about taking up the mantle of "[Name] Targaryen," and he'll have a nice line (or monologue) about "Ned Stark raised me as his own" and "I am of the North, nothing changes about that, not even my name."

 

[GATTACA!]

Anybody else think all this lip reading is pointless? I don't think there is any way they would tell someone who's essentially an extra a secret like that, especially if they knew they weren't going to include the line in the episode. They probably just told her to whisper something random.