'17 NC QB Hendon Hooker (Virginia Tech Verbal)

[Luckylucci]

Ehhhhh Wimbush was basically a 5

Just illustrating that there aren't very many 5 star QB's and that shouldn't be prerequisite for our QB recruiting.

 

[koonja]

Just illustrating that there aren't very many 5 star QB's and that shouldn't be prerequisite for our QB recruiting.

I just meant 'stud' and 5-star was the easy way to say that. For instance, 2018 Phil Jurkovic is a stud QB, albeit not a 5-star. I should have used stud. Malik = stud, Ian Book not a stud.

 

[Luckylucci]

I just meant 'stud' and 5-star was the easy way to say that. For instance, 2018 Phil Jurkovic is a stud QB, albeit not a 5-star. I should have used stud. Malik = stud, Ian Book not a stud.

Got it

 

[connor_in]

Got it

Here...use this to help...

 

[OCIrish]

Here...use this to help...

I approve of rhis message!!!

 

[Rizzophil]

I hope he commits!

I wonder if Avery cancels if the writing is on the wall. Or if Avery visits either way.

 

[ColinKSU]

Does he have an Ohio State offer?

 

[Prof K]

What disadvantage do you see with taking two? Especially if they are both highly ranked?

Given the propensity of mobile QBs to suffer injury, I see some advantage to taking two. I suspect we will need both Zaire and Kizer in 2016.

The clear disadvantage is that one may transfer, but if that is the weaker QB, this might be OK. Thus developing two in the same class just doesn't seem that troubling and given we were down to a red shirt sophomore and a true freshman last year, I would feel better with some redundancy at the position.

 

[drake29]

Not saying he's Cam Newton, or that he'll even be close to Cam. But there are a lot of similarities here.

He's Cam minus the arm strength, 3 inches height and 60 lbs muscle. (And hopefully minus the character issues as well)... I will say he is similar in terms of mobility (gait - more of a long strider) and throwing motion.

 

[pkt77242]

Given the propensity of mobile QBs to suffer injury, I see some advantage to taking two. I suspect we will need both Zaire and Kizer in 2016.

The clear disadvantage is that one may transfer, but if that is the weaker QB, this might be OK. Thus developing two in the same class just doesn't seem that troubling and given we were down to a red shirt sophomore and a true freshman last year, I would feel better with some redundancy at the position.

The question is how many QBs can get reps at the same time. Ideally you have 3 on the roster and 1 redshirting. The reps are needed for development but with too many QBs someone or sometimes multiple people are not getting enough reps for development.

 

[TheTurningPoint]

visiting the same day as avery

March 19 — Junior Day

Four-star QB Avery Davis (offer)
Four-star CB Thomas Graham (offer)
Four-star OL Andrew Thomas (offer)
Four-star WR Trey Blount (offer)
Four-star WR Tarik Black (offer)
Four-star LB David Adams (offer)
Four-star LB Pete Werner (offer)
Four-star DB Amir Riep (offer)
Three-star LB Jacob Phillips (offer)
Three-star DT Kurt Hinish (offer)
Three-star QB Hendon Hooker (offer)
Four-star QB Phil Jurkovec (offer)
Four-star OL Jamaree Salyer (2018)
Unranked WR Micah Jones (2018)
QB Sam Johnson (2019)

247 has it wrong. Hooker has not set a visit to Notre Dame yet.

 

[GBdomer]

247 has it wrong. Hooker has not set a visit to Notre Dame yet.

Rivals has him coming as well

 

[Irish Man3]

Rivals has him coming as well

As did ISD

 

[BeauBenken]

As did ISD

Did?

Or does?

 

[drake29]

Good move by Hendon if correct. Davis is waiting for something else or just enjoying the process. Hendon has been involved with basketball. Really surprised one of these guys didn't BS commit to hold a spot because ND is above their pay grade in my eyes. Maybe Loy's daily Sears updates and maybe some Mond rumors lit a fire? I'm down for any of them. Hopefully Hooker has some football smarts to go along with the physical package that is 5 star level. That's why I like Sears so much, he's coming out of a program that produces QB's and they run an ND style offense.

Barring injury, Hooker will have plenty of time to develop. Hopefully his first meaningful snap would be in '19 or '20 (depending on when BW is finished) if he can beat out Book and who ever comes in behind him in '18 or '19.

5 star physical package? Which tools do you see putting him in that category?

 

[Luckylucci]

He's Cam minus the arm strength, 3 inches height and 60 lbs muscle. (And hopefully minus the character issues as well)... I will say he is similar in terms of mobility (gait - more of a long strider) and throwing motion.

I don't think he meant todays Cam, in all fairness Cam is 26 this kid is most likely 17. So comparing the sizes or weight of the two today is rather silly. Average of the sites had Cam around 6'5 230 coming out of HS and they have Hendon at 6'4 200. So definitely not 3 inches shorter and he does have a smaller frame at similar stages but certainly not 60lbs. Probably gives up about 1' and 30lbs. at similar stages. On the arm strength, this kid is a baseball player, he can sling it.

To your other question about what is 5 star about this kid. Well size. 6'4 200 is a 5 star size for a 17 year old kid. Then I'd say athleticism. The kid is an incredible athlete for his size. Now, do I think he's a 5 star player at this time? No, I do not, but he has some tremendous tangible traits and he has incredible upside.

 

[drake29]

I don't think he meant todays Cam, in all fairness Cam is 26 this kid is most likely 17. So comparing the sizes or weight of the two today is rather silly. Average of the sites had Cam around 6'5 230 coming out of HS and they have Hendon at 6'4 200. So definitely not 3 inches shorter and he does have a smaller frame at similar stages but certainly not 60lbs. Probably gives up about 1' and 30lbs. at similar stages. On the arm strength, this kid is a baseball player, he can sling it.

To your other question about what is 5 star about this kid. Well size. 6'4 200 is a 5 star size for a 17 year old kid. Then I'd say athleticism. The kid is an incredible athlete for his size. Now, do I think he's a 5 star player at this time? No, I do not, but he has some tremendous tangible traits and he has incredible upside.

The bolded means absolutely nothing to me. I'm don't ever remember reading anything about Hooker ever playing baseball and even if he does, it doesn't mean he can throw a football. Seems like every pass with him is a touch pass - I don't remember ever seeing him throw a ball with good velocity.

As for his size - as a recruit I remember Newton listed at 6-6 by most sites at 230+. His official combine height measured at 6-5. As with most players, they are listed a full inch taller than they actually are. Given that information let's say Hooker is a full 6-3, and generously list him at 200 lbs. Very good size, I'll grant that. He's a pretty good runner at that size as well. I just don't see it as a thrower - which is kind of a big deal if you're a QB.

 

[Luckylucci]

The bolded means absolutely nothing to me. I'm don't ever remember reading anything about Hooker ever playing baseball and even if he does, it doesn't mean he can throw a football. Seems like every pass with him is a touch pass - I don't remember ever seeing him throw a ball with good velocity.

As for his size - as a recruit I remember Newton listed at 6-6 by most sites at 230+. His official combine height measured at 6-5. As with most players, they are listed a full inch taller than they actually are. Given that information let's say Hooker is a full 6-3, and generously list him at 200 lbs. Very good size, I'll grant that. He's a pretty good runner at that size as well. I just don't see it as a thrower - which is kind of a big deal if you're a QB.

You could just look them up and no he wasn't. He was 6'5 on 247 and 6'5 1/2 on Scout, rivals doesn't have a height. His weight varied from 225, 232, 235 which averages 230 lbs. Still not even remotely close to 60 lbs. If you are going to use the logic that they exaggerate heights and weights then the same logic would apply for Newton's profiles from 2006. So Newton at a similar stage was 6'4 and under 230. So Hooker is roughly 1 inch shorter and 30lbs. lighter. Still not remotely close to what you originally posted.

Count me excited that you do not recruit for ND.

 

[drake29]

You could just look them up and no he wasn't. He was 6'5 on 247 and 6'5 1/2 on Scout, rivals doesn't have a height. His weight varied from 225, 232, 235 which averages 230 lbs. Still not even remotely close to 60 lbs. If you are going to use the logic that they exaggerate heights and weights then the same logic would apply for Newton's profiles from 2006. So Newton at a similar stage was 6'4 and under 230. So Hooker is roughly 1 inch shorter and 30lbs. lighter. Still not remotely close to what you originally posted.

Count me excited that you do not recruit for ND.

First of all, scouting is completely different than recruiting. Secondly, there is a definite size descrepency as far as weight. There is a minimum of 25 lbs difference between the two (which is a lot) and a maximum of 51 lbs difference. Newton is listed as a recruit anywhere between 1-2 inches taller (and a VERIFIED, accurate measurement at the NFL combine).

On Rivals: no height, 232lbs - as a recruit at Blinn CC they have him at 6-6 247.
Scout: 6-5.5, 225.
247: 6-5 235.
ESPN: 6-5 225
MaxPreps: 6-5 225

Hooker on Rivals is 6-5, 200lbs.
Scout: 6-4, 198.
247: 6-4, 190.
Hudl: 6-4 200.
ESPN: 6-4 184.
MaxPreps: 6-4 200.

Also, tell me again how playing baseball equates to having great arm strength in football. I need another good laugh.

 

[drake29]

 

[drake29]

Devin Gardner was listed at 195 lbs...

 

[Luckylucci]

First of all, scouting is completely different than recruiting. Secondly, there is a definite size descrepency as far as weight. There is a minimum of 25 lbs difference between the two (which is a lot) and a maximum of 51 lbs difference. Newton is listed as a recruit anywhere between 1-2 inches taller (and a VERIFIED, accurate measurement at the NFL combine).

On Rivals: no height, 232lbs - as a recruit at Blinn CC they have him at 6-6 247.
Scout: 6-5.5, 225.
247: 6-5 235.
ESPN: 6-5 225
MaxPreps: 6-5 225

Hooker on Rivals is 6-5, 200lbs.
Scout: 6-4, 198.
247: 6-4, 190.
Hudl: 6-4 200.
ESPN: 6-4 184.
MaxPreps: 6-4 200.

Also, tell me again how playing baseball equates to having great arm strength in football. I need another good laugh.

Your really struggling to gather this and I'm not sure why. Nobody said Cam wasn't bigger, but you said 60lbs. There is a huge difference between 1 inch and 30 lbs. and 3 and 60. That isn't even remotely close. You basically just spent all that time, to come up with what I posted above. Cam was 230 at this stage and Hendon is 200. Its completely pointless to mention what he was at Community College as that is 2 years from now and the combine which would be 4.

You clearly haven't played much baseball. Roger Clemson used to warm up before games or stay in shape in the offseason by throwing a football. Many college football players have also had success on the diamond or vice versa. Russell Wilson, Drew Henson, Brandon Weeden come to mind. Much more than that but the point is made.

 

[drake29]

Your really struggling to gather this and I'm not sure why. Nobody said Cam wasn't bigger, but you said 60lbs. There is a huge difference between 1 inch and 30 lbs. and 3 and 60. That isn't even remotely close. You basically just spent all that time, to come up with what I posted above. Cam was 230 at this stage and Hendon is 200. Its completely pointless to mention what he was at Community College as that is 2 years from now and the combine which would be 4.

You clearly haven't played much baseball. Roger Clemson used to warm up before games or stay in shape in the offseason by throwing a football. Many college football players have also had success on the diamond or vice versa. Russell Wilson, Drew Henson, Brandon Weeden come to mind. Much more than that but the point is made.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the size discrepancy. I exaggerated initially but the fact is that Newton was much bigger at this stage - at a minimum 25 lbs of muscle. That's at least 2 years in a college strength program just to get where Newton was as a high school senior.

As far as playing baseball, I played baseball in college. There are baseball players in college that can't get a football past 40 yards. If what you believe is true - why don't we see more failed pitchers coming back to play college football? Apparently they should have the arm strength and accuracy. Why does't the staff have Torii Hunter throw the ball downfield? Just because a kid is a high school baseball player, doesn't really mean a damned thing at the QB position in college football. It just doesn't.

 

[drake29]

Perfect example of a guy to play baseball that doesn't have a strong arm. Former ND great, Golden Tate:

WR Tate to WR Rice, 23-yd, pass, TD - NFL Videos

Ball looks like it makes it around 40 yards. I'm sure it was baseball that helped him develop that cannon.

 

[Luckylucci]

We'll have to agree to disagree on the size discrepancy. I exaggerated initially but the fact is that Newton was much bigger at this stage - at a minimum 25 lbs of muscle. That's at least 2 years in a college strength program just to get where Newton was as a high school senior.

As far as playing baseball, I played baseball in college. There are baseball players in college that can't get a football past 40 yards. If what you believe is true - why don't we see more failed pitchers coming back to play college football? Apparently they should have the arm strength and accuracy. Why does't the staff have Torii Hunter throw the ball downfield? Just because a kid is a high school baseball player, doesn't really mean a damned thing at the QB position in college football. It just doesn't.

And Hendon won't even graduate HS for 1.5 years. I'm not sure what you don't get. This is a 17 year old kid we are talking about. He won't even start a college weight training program for that period of time anyways.

They actually do.

A general understanding of rotating hips and shoulders, release points etc.

I'm going to sign off now because you are very difficult to converse with, almost pointless.

 

[drake29]

And Hendon won't even graduate HS for 1.5 years. I'm not sure what you don't get. This is a 17 year old kid we are talking about. He won't even start a college weight training program for that period of time anyways.

They actually do.

A general understanding of rotating hips and shoulders, release points etc.

I'm going to sign off now because you are very difficult to converse with, almost pointless.

I'm not sure what you don't get either - right he's 25 lbs away. That means he's at least 25 lbs (probably more) behind Newton at the SAME stage. If you look at Cam Newton 2 years into a JUCO training program he's at 250. If you're looking at a growth chart/time line, Newton was much larger.

Footballs are not baseballs, and baseballs are not footballs. You don't throw them in a similar manner. Yes, you hold the ball in your hand but how you hold the ball and where you release are completely different. Also different is the weight, shape, and general flight pattern of the ball itself. They aren't remotely close to being the same.

I'll take your signing off as a win, thanks.

 

[dad4aa]

I'm not sure what you don't get either - right he's 25 lbs away. That means he's at least 25 lbs (probably more) behind Newton at the SAME stage. If you look at Cam Newton 2 years into a JUCO training program he's at 250. If you're looking at a growth chart/time line, Newton was much larger.

Footballs are not baseballs, and baseballs are not footballs. You don't throw them in a similar manner. Yes, you hold the ball in your hand but how you hold the ball and where you release are completely different. Also different is the weight, shape, and general flight pattern of the ball itself. They aren't remotely close to being the same.

I'll take your signing off as a win, thanks.

I think it is more that he hates a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

 

[drake29]

I think it is more that he hates a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

OK, you tell me how playing high school baseball = arm strength as a QB. You tell me that and I'll admit I am unable to comprehend the level of your genius (and Lucky's) and leave the board.

 

[drake29]

Brady throwing a baseball

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s-CggQ2xIE

Denard Robinson's turn:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSPVSjqxZec

 

[Luckylucci]

I'm not sure what you don't get either - right he's 25 lbs away. That means he's at least 25 lbs (probably more) behind Newton at the SAME stage. If you look at Cam Newton 2 years into a JUCO training program he's at 250. If you're looking at a growth chart/time line, Newton was much larger.

Footballs are not baseballs, and baseballs are not footballs. You don't throw them in a similar manner. Yes, you hold the ball in your hand but how you hold the ball and where you release are completely different. Also different is the weight, shape, and general flight pattern of the ball itself. They aren't remotely close to being the same.

I'll take your signing off as a win, thanks.

Correct, you finally got something right. This is what I initially said. You initially said he was 60lbs. heavier. Thank you for agreeing with me and I'm glad we spent all this time coming to the conclusion that your first post was an extreme exaggeration.