2016 Presidential Horse Race

[ACamp1900]

National debt hit 19 trillion

All of the other social issues are just a side show


It didn't help that Obama proposed a 4trillion spending plan. Wtf

it's fine, we will just tax the rich at 325% allowing us to keep the spending increases intact...

 

[pkt77242]

National debt hit 19 trillion

All of the other social issues are just a side show


It didn't help that Obama proposed a 4trillion spending plan. Wtf. Plus, giving away $750 million in obamacare subsides to non residents doesn't help

To be fair wasn't last years budget 3.999 trillion?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

it's fine, we will just tax the rich at 325% allowing us to keep the spending increases intact...

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/o-0lAhnoDlU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[GoIrish41]

Is there a difference, in your mind, between self-interest and special interest? To me, the are virtually the same. If you support a candidate or lobby a politician to do something that benefits you personally, and likely to detriment of another sector of the population, you are pushing for a special interest. Yours. It's the same thing in principle to a union or corporation or lobbying group that throws money and support to a politician. The difference, of course, is scale. Unless there are enough individuals with the same special interest who form a group to push that agenda at national level. Then you have AARP, NRA, NARAL, etc, and those groups can flex their muscles just as well as Fortune 500 companies.

But the recent college graduate who wants his six figure student loan debt cancelled, therefore screwing whatever financial institution issued that debt, isn't any better than the corporation who lobbies to keep tax loopholes open so they can pay a laughably small amount of income tax. In both cases, selfishness is at play. The Sanders crowd would like us to pity the college grad and forgive his debt because of misplaced sticking-up-for-the-little-guy rhetoric. The tax-dodging corporation is at least providing jobs to people. The forgive-my-student-debt crowd isn't doing anyone a damn bit of good, except themselves, by trying to weasel out of debt that they knowingly and willingly assumed.

I think there is a huge difference between special interests and personal interests. Case in point is the gun control debate following the Newtown shooting. A poll taken then indicated that 90% of Americans -- republicans, democrats, independents, even NRA members wanted to expand background checks. The bill to do just that could not get enough votes to pass. Why?

That is what money and the power that it brings to our politics can do to a country founded on democratic principles. The rich have all the power and they write our laws to suit them and pay off politicians in campaign contributions. Citizens United has to be the first thing a new president takes aim at.

Finally, I don't think free college and forgiving already accumulated debt are the same thing. I think you may be expanding Sanders' program to the left a ways. (you must be a freaking liberal.) I have never heard him say that. If he did, I would say that is too much.

 

[Rizzophil]

To be fair wasn't last years budget 3.999 trillion?

Not one senator voted for it

 

[pkt77242]

Not one senator voted for it

Didn't the final budget end up being about that amount?
US Federal Budget FY16 Estimated Spending Breakdown - Pie Chart

 

[Ndaccountant]

I think I understand your position better. If you don't minimize your bank account over your working career, then you are greatly divorced from the working man.

This means no one outside of that camp can understand them or truly feel what it's like to be them. So by instituting this logic, you've eliminated every candidate from contending for the "common man" title because Bernie was the closest thing we've ever seen, and his is a schtick, impressively devised and followed over the past 20-30 years.

So now he's just a bad capitalist and an average politician. This eliminates his strongest point of relation with the masses and does nothing to harm the other candidates because they all have much higher reported financial assets.

Smart move.


**note: your numbers used were smart by leaving the retirement accounts out of average households, this made the 55 number much more grabby than the 7. I'm guessing you left it out because the pension he receives is likely not included in his reported financial assets so other retirement accounts should be left out? How do you know some of his financial assets aren't in retirement accounts though? Perhaps old Bern knew a 401k, 457b, Roth or other vehicle was a smart way to stow money away, tax-deferred.

I'll answer in full later but to your last point, the households are all households were the other data point is households with a retirement account. Thus illustrating how many households are woefully under prepared.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Get out of here with this crap.

I am not saying innocent kids should starve but not everyone wins the lottery of life and there is always going to be someone with a better life than yours. Who knows, maybe if these kids see how difficult it is on Mom and Dad working so much they might pay attention in school so they don't have the same life? Just throwing out ideas....

I am all about helping people. I am all about a rising tide lifts all boats. But this insanity that people have a birthright to an easy life needs to stop.

If we as a society need to help put the food on the table for everyone, ensure health care for everyone and never turn our back on innocent kids....sign me up for that.

But you better damn well bring in some regulations that people still work. You better speak down to those who want to coast through life as much as you speak up for voiceless children. Because if you don't you have lost me.

This post is beyond ignorant.

The bolded is exactly what Sanders is proposing, yet you seem adamantly against it based on your other posts.

Being born into poverty in a society which has been stripped of it's social economic safety nets all but guarantees generational poverty. You're completely misinformed if you think the vast majority of welfare recipients "coast through life." Most are working multiple jobs just to put food on the table and a roof over their family's head. People are constantly being forced to choose between paying the heat bill or paying for a prescription. People are forced to skip the doctor visit in order to get groceries that month. You think these people are "coasting?"

Are there exceptions? Sure, as with everything. But you're completely bashing a massive group of people in this country who are honestly doing what they can just to get by. Unless you've walked in their shoes, you have no fucking clue how hard it is. So keep on thinking they're "coasting."

 

[dales5050]

This post is beyond ignorant.

The bolded is exactly what Sanders is proposing, yet you seem adamantly against it based on your other posts.

The bolded is not exactly what Sanders is posting. If you're not bright enough to see the difference..that's on you.

I am for helping those in need but not giving them a free ride. That's not what Sanders or even liberals are about. I am all for helping kids but that does not mean parents can use them as an excuse.

I think we should help put food on the table but I am not for giving those who can't a debit card to buy whatever they want. I am for helping with daycare costs but not for someone working 40hrs a week. For every penny of support someone gets I want to see a quarter of effort to not take it the next week.

Being born into poverty in a society which has been stripped of it's social economic safety nets all but guarantees generational poverty. You're completely misinformed if you think the vast majority of welfare recipients "coast through life." Most are working multiple part-time jobs just to put food on the table and a roof over their family's head. People are constantly being forced to pay the heat bill or pay for a prescription. People are forced to skip the doctor visit in order to get groceries that month. You think these people are "coasting?"

Bullshit.

People like you have been trying to fix poverty for generations by more and more programs and the net result is more poverty and complete and utter removal of a work ethic from the DNA of many Americans.

If you think most welfare recipients don't coast though life you're about as naive as they come. People are not forced to choose between the heat bill or pay for groceries. Many get free heat and keep the thermostat at a comfortable 78 degrees. They have these nifty cards now for food as well. When they need to go to the doctors office, they call 911 and take an ambulance. The service is so good they also take the same ambulance for groceries.

I swear to God some of you folks have been spoon feed this sob story since high school that you not only have no f*cking clue how the real world works but you're also scared to question it for fear of the PC police coming for you.

Have you spent any actual time in the inner city? Not at some structured event your sociology professor setup to give you an education but some honest time when the game is not being played?

Do yourself a favor. Call the closest urban police department and request to do a ride along on 11p-7a shift. Then come back to me with your box of tissues.

 

[pkt77242]

New Hampshire Primary Elections: Live Coverage | FiveThirtyEight

 

[EddytoNow]

I worked in a McDonalds for four years, from junior year of high school through sophomore year of college. Most of the workers were dropouts and/or druggies. Anyone with half a brain was promoted within a few months, and many without half a brain were promoted anyways.

So I assume you were promoted.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

The bolded is not exactly what Sanders is posting. If you're not bright enough to see the difference..that's on you.

I am for helping those in need but not giving them a free ride. That's not what Sanders or even liberals are about. I am all for helping kids but that does not mean parents can use them as an excuse.

I think we should help put food on the table but I am not for giving those who can't a debit card to buy whatever they want. I am for helping with daycare costs but not for someone working 40hrs a week. For every penny of support someone gets I want to see a quarter of effort to not take it the next week.



Bullshit.

People like you have been trying to fix poverty for generations by more and more programs and the net result is more poverty and complete and utter removal of a work ethic from the DNA of many Americans.

If you think most welfare recipients don't coast though life you're about as naive as they come. People are not forced to choose between the heat bill or pay for groceries. Many get free heat and keep the thermostat at a comfortable 78 degrees. They have these nifty cards now for food as well. When they need to go to the doctors office, they call 911 and take an ambulance. The service is so good they also take the same ambulance for groceries.

I swear to God some of you folks have been spoon feed this sob story since high school that you not only have no f*cking clue how the real world works but you're also scared to question it for fear of the PC police coming for you.

Have you spent any actual time in the inner city? Not at some structured event your sociology professor setup to give you an education but some honest time when the game is not being played?

Do yourself a favor. Call the closest urban police department and request to do a ride along on 11p-7a shift. Then come back to me with your box of tissues.

Responding to this would be a complete waste of my time so I'm walking away from this subject.

 

[BGIF]

CNN projects Trump and Sanders the winners based upon Exit Polls and actual votes cast.

Trump has 33%, Kasich 17, Bush 12, Rubio 10

Sanders 52, Clinton 40

 

[pkt77242]

The bolded is not exactly what Sanders is posting. If you're not bright enough to see the difference..that's on you.

I am for helping those in need but not giving them a free ride. That's not what Sanders or even liberals are about. I am all for helping kids but that does not mean parents can use them as an excuse.

I think we should help put food on the table but I am not for giving those who can't a debit card to buy whatever they want. I am for helping with daycare costs but not for someone working 40hrs a week. For every penny of support someone gets I want to see a quarter of effort to not take it the next week.



Bullshit.

People like you have been trying to fix poverty for generations by more and more programs and the net result is more poverty and complete and utter removal of a work ethic from the DNA of many Americans.

If you think most welfare recipients don't coast though life you're about as naive as they come. People are not forced to choose between the heat bill or pay for groceries. Many get free heat and keep the thermostat at a comfortable 78 degrees. They have these nifty cards now for food as well. When they need to go to the doctors office, they call 911 and take an ambulance. The service is so good they also take the same ambulance for groceries.

I swear to God some of you folks have been spoon feed this sob story since high school that you not only have no f*cking clue how the real world works but you're also scared to question it for fear of the PC police coming for you.

Have you spent any actual time in the inner city? Not at some structured event your sociology professor setup to give you an education but some honest time when the game is not being played?

Do yourself a favor. Call the closest urban police department and request to do a ride along on 11p-7a shift. Then come back to me with your box of tissues.

Seriously?

Lets look at some actual information instead of your wonderful opinions.

Facts Show Little SNAP Food Stamp Fraud or Abuse - US News

Ok, so the majority of SNAP recipients have at least one working adult in the household (obviously they removed households with retired people and disabled people). Within a year of receiving the benefit an adult in the household will employed. Obviously they aren't working. Lazy bastards.

Also here is the damn liberal WSJ talking about it.

Get a Job? Most Welfare Recipients Already Have One - Real Time Economics - WSJ


ETA: This made me laugh from the WSJ blog

A report from House Democrats in 2013 found that a single 300-person Wal-Mart Supercenter store in Wisconsin costs taxpayers at least $904,542 per year, or about $5,815 per employee. Wal-Mart announced in February that all off its employees would earn at least $10 an hour by next year.

While they have raised their wages since then, it is very sad.

 

[NDRock]

Bullshit.

People like you have been trying to fix poverty for generations by more and more programs and the net result is more poverty and complete and utter removal of a work ethic from the DNA of many Americans.

If you think most welfare recipients don't coast though life you're about as naive as they come. People are not forced to choose between the heat bill or pay for groceries. Many get free heat and keep the thermostat at a comfortable 78 degrees. They have these nifty cards now for food as well. When they need to go to the doctors office, they call 911 and take an ambulance. The service is so good they also take the same ambulance for groceries.

I swear to God some of you folks have been spoon feed this sob story since high school that you not only have no f*cking clue how the real world works but you're also scared to question it for fear of the PC police coming for you.

Have you spent any actual time in the inner city? Not at some structured event your sociology professor setup to give you an education but some honest time when the game is not being played?

Do yourself a favor. Call the closest urban police department and request to do a ride along on 11p-7a shift. Then come back to me with your box of tissues.

I've spent quite a lot of time in these neighborhoods as a firefighter. I'm really not going to get into how/why these people got where they are but your characterization that they "coast" through life and all is great is laughable. At least where I live and work, the extreme poor live in shitholes and seem to live depressing lives. If they are keeping their homes at a toasty 78 it's because the oven door is open and that's their main heat source. I truly never had any idea at how badly people live before I made this my career.

No idea what can be done to fix this but I do feel bad when I see kids brought up in these types of environments because I know they will probably continue the cycle.

 

[pkt77242]

What happens to Rubio's campaign if he finished 5th or 6th?

 

[woolybug25]

What happens to Rubio's campaign if he finished 5th or 6th?

He goes back to FL and drinks a bunch of little water bottles?

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

What happens to Rubio's campaign if he finished 5th or 6th?

I guess he'll just have to sweat it out for a bit...

 

[GoIrish41]

The bolded is not exactly what Sanders is posting. If you're not bright enough to see the difference..that's on you.

I am for helping those in need but not giving them a free ride. That's not what Sanders or even liberals are about. I am all for helping kids but that does not mean parents can use them as an excuse.

I think we should help put food on the table but I am not for giving those who can't a debit card to buy whatever they want. I am for helping with daycare costs but not for someone working 40hrs a week. For every penny of support someone gets I want to see a quarter of effort to not take it the next week.



Bullshit.

People like you have been trying to fix poverty for generations by more and more programs and the net result is more poverty and complete and utter removal of a work ethic from the DNA of many Americans.

If you think most welfare recipients don't coast though life you're about as naive as they come. People are not forced to choose between the heat bill or pay for groceries. Many get free heat and keep the thermostat at a comfortable 78 degrees. They have these nifty cards now for food as well. When they need to go to the doctors office, they call 911 and take an ambulance. The service is so good they also take the same ambulance for groceries.

I swear to God some of you folks have been spoon feed this sob story since high school that you not only have no f*cking clue how the real world works but you're also scared to question it for fear of the PC police coming for you.

Have you spent any actual time in the inner city? Not at some structured event your sociology professor setup to give you an education but some honest time when the game is not being played?

Do yourself a favor. Call the closest urban police department and request to do a ride along on 11p-7a shift. Then come back to me with your box of tissues.

This is the most ignorant, uninformed post I have read in quite some time.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

What happens to Rubio's campaign if he finished 5th or 6th?

Thank God Kasich is running 2nd with Cruz/Bush fighting for 3rd. Let's hope the bottom half now bow out and we can get a clearer understanding of who has a chance to grab the GOP ticket.

Now let's see if Bernie's steam starts to stutter as they move through the rest of the country. (I hope not)

 

[phgreek]

a few things.
1. If you want to make it so that 15% of our population can't have children or if they do have children they are screwed, well you had better bring in some immigrants to fill the population vacuum.

2. many minimum wage type jobs want you to work the schedule they tell you to work, not the one you choose, so your plan doesn't really work. Also you seem to be under the impression that minimum wage jobs are so easy. Have you worked in fast food? Have you worked many minimum wage jobs. The ones that I worked in HS (one summer at Taco Bell, and one in maintenance at my school) were my most physically difficult jobs. While I didn't have the stress or responsibility that I have now, I sure as Hell worked my ass off a those jobs and so did most of my coworkers. I am pretty glad to have my nice comfy chair and desk to work at now.

ok...ok...ok...I had to ask...Did you have to clean the grease trap in the cafeteria?

 

[dales5050]

Seriously?

Lets look at some actual information instead of your wonderful opinions.

Facts Show Little SNAP Food Stamp Fraud or Abuse - US News

Ok, so the majority of SNAP recipients have at least one working adult in the household (obviously they removed households with retired people and disabled people). Within a year of receiving the benefit an adult in the household will employed. Obviously they aren't working. Lazy bastards.

Oh progressives sure did get their feathers ruffled.....

First off, I did not inject the notion of abuse to SNAP. I simply said, in reply to people saying others go hungry, that there are programs like SNAP. People like to paint a picture that is as bleak as possible because that's what sells the idea of expanding government and programs.

But when the limited amount of fraud happens it's bad. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/19/us/food-stamp-fraud-in-the-underground-economy.html

But since your on the subject, the subject of fraud or abuse in studies can only be based on what's allowed or not allowed. For example, there is nothing wrong with a mother of 3 going to the store and spending 100% of her SNAP budget on processed food, soda and candy. Not a single thing wrong with that. However, if you don't find doing so abusive to the system you're a moron.

If we are going to give people a dollar to help them put food on the table, they have the responsibility to make that dollar go as far as they can. But for some reason, it's become bad to think like this. It's even worse to say it in the open. And that's why we can't nice things.

I do my part. I work hard. I give to charity, I volunteer and I help my neighbor. I pay my taxes. I vote.

I am not against SNAP. I am not against Welfare. I am not against the idea of any social program.

I am however against any and all waste, fraud and abuse. I have read the studies and stories that cover both sides and I have seen in first hand. I think people should always get a hand up but I don't think they should be carried. I think people should start taking responsibility for their actions and stop looking for someone else to make their life better.

But most importantly, I think the hammer needs to come down on the folks who are more concerned about feelings of the poor in conversations about poverty than they are with actually solving the never ending cycle of poverty. I am sick of the people who enable poor life choices, that can be avoided, simply because they are uncomfortable with any feeling of having a backbone or personal opinion.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Oh progressives sure did get their feathers ruffled.....

First off, I did not inject the notion of abuse to SNAP. I simply said, in reply to people saying others go hungry, that there are programs like SNAP. People like to paint a picture that is as bleak as possible because that's what sells the idea of expanding government and programs.

But when the limited amount of fraud happens it's bad. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/19/us/food-stamp-fraud-in-the-underground-economy.html

But since your on the subject, the subject of fraud or abuse in studies can only be based on what's allowed or not allowed. For example, there is nothing wrong with a mother of 3 going to the store and spending 100% of her SNAP budget on processed food, soda and candy. Not a single thing wrong with that. However, if you don't find doing so abusive to the system you're a moron.

If we are going to give people a dollar to help them put food on the table, they have the responsibility to make that dollar go as far as they can. But for some reason, it's become bad to think like this. It's even worse to say it in the open. And that's why we can't nice things.

I like how respectful you are. It really makes people want to see your side of the argument.

To the bolded, it's a huge problem that processed food is the cheapest thing on the shelf. In the long term, it causes a ton of health problems. In the short term, it's actually cheaper for the family because of the enormous subsidies that go to corn and soy.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Oh progressives sure did get their feathers ruffled.....

First off, I did not inject the notion of abuse to SNAP. I simply said, in reply to people saying others go hungry, that there are programs like SNAP. People like to paint a picture that is as bleak as possible because that's what sells the idea of expanding government and programs.

But when the limited amount of fraud happens it's bad. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/19/us/food-stamp-fraud-in-the-underground-economy.html

But since your on the subject, the subject of fraud or abuse in studies can only be based on what's allowed or not allowed. For example, there is nothing wrong with a mother of 3 going to the store and spending 100% of her SNAP budget on processed food, soda and candy. Not a single thing wrong with that. However, if you don't find doing so abusive to the system you're a moron.

If we are going to give people a dollar to help them put food on the table, they have the responsibility to make that dollar go as far as they can. But for some reason, it's become bad to think like this. It's even worse to say it in the open. And that's why we can't nice things.

I do my part. I work hard. I give to charity, I volunteer and I help my neighbor. I pay my taxes. I vote.

I am not against SNAP. I am not against Welfare. I am not against the idea of any social program.

I am however against any and all waste, fraud and abuse. I have read the studies and stories that cover both sides and I have seen in first hand. I think people should always get a hand up but I don't think they should be carried. I think people should start taking responsibility for their actions and stop looking for someone else to make their life better.

But most importantly, I think the hammer needs to come down on the folks who are more concerned about feelings of the poor in conversations about poverty than they are with actually solving the never ending cycle of poverty. I am sick of the people who enable poor life choices, that can be avoided, simply because they are uncomfortable with any feeling of having a backbone or personal opinion.

LOL. That's all you've been talking about.

Look man, no one is saying that there is a 0% abuse/fraud rate. But what people are trying to get through your thick skull is that it's a very very low rate. So low that it's completely irresponsible to categorize all welfare recipients as someone who's abusing the system and "coasting" through life. Study after study shows the exact opposite actually.

Maybe you should spend less time bitching about poor people and actually look into the real reasons (not just your worthless opinions) why they're poor and struggle now more so than ever to get out of poverty.

 

[dales5050]

I like how respectful you are. It really makes people want to see your side of the argument.

I have been called ignorant multiple times in this thread for having an opinion and talking about what I have seen first hand on several occasions. I did not start out disrespectful but am simply matching the tone.

To the bolded, it's a huge problem that processed food is the cheapest thing on the shelf. In the long term, it causes a ton of health problems. In the short term, it's actually cheaper for the family because of the enormous subsidies that go to corn and soy.

On the issue of what's purchase with SNAP. It's not that processed food is the cheapest, which it is, the problem is it's the easiest.

Personally I don't think anyone should go hungry. I would have no problem with SNAP levels being doubled or tripled..hell make it whatever is needed. Provided only good foods are eligible for purchase. Make sure people have enough milk, bread, eggs, meat and most importantly veggies to feed the entire home. But you also need to make sure soda, candy and shitty processed food is not purchased.

This is a very reasonable position but for some reason having it is seen as racist or an attack on the poor. Stating that people take the easy way out, which they do regardless if they are poor or rich, is simply the truth. The difference is I don't care how someone who makes their money spends it but I do care how someone taking assistance spends others money.

Here is a great study on the subject - http://www.eatdrinkpolitics.com/wp-content/uploads/FoodStampsFollowtheMoneySimon.pdf

When PepsiCo, Coca-Cola and Kraft Foods are purchasing policy you have a problem. A real problem. These companies have made sure that feeding your kids a bag of Lays and a liter of Mt Dew is not against the rules. This allows others to say that parents are not doing anything wrong with SNAP. See above comments.

But morally...it's outrageous. It's just wrong.


If we can't have an honest conversation about what's wrong we're never going to get anything fixed. If every time someone points out the flaws in a system is called out for being a hateful person who wants to starve kids, keep the elderly in the poor house or whatever rhetoric is used to make someone who has it OK to feel bad...you're not going to fix anything.

 

[connor_in]

 

[RDU Irish]

Can we all agree that Xboxes and cigarettes should be an American birthright and move on to discussing when the bottom feeder Republican are going to drop out - looking at you Carly and Ben. Christie needs a reality check too.

 

[connor_in]

 

[connor_in]

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I have been called ignorant multiple times in this thread for having an opinion and talking about what I have seen first hand on several occasions. I did not start out disrespectful but am simply matching the tone.



On the issue of what's purchase with SNAP. It's not that processed food is the cheapest, which it is, the problem is it's the easiest.

Personally I don't think anyone should go hungry. I would have no problem with SNAP levels being doubled or tripled..hell make it whatever is needed. Provided only good foods are eligible for purchase. Make sure people have enough milk, bread, eggs, meat and most importantly veggies to feed the entire home. But you also need to make sure soda, candy and shitty processed food is not purchased.

This is a very reasonable position but for some reason having it is seen as racist or an attack on the poor. Stating that people take the easy way out, which they do regardless if they are poor or rich, is simply the truth. The difference is I don't care how someone who makes their money spends it but I do care how someone taking assistance spends others money.

Here is a great study on the subject - http://www.eatdrinkpolitics.com/wp-content/uploads/FoodStampsFollowtheMoneySimon.pdf

When PepsiCo, Coca-Cola and Kraft Foods are purchasing policy you have a problem. A real problem. These companies have made sure that feeding your kids a bag of Lays and a liter of Mt Dew is not against the rules. This allows others to say that parents are not doing anything wrong with SNAP. See above comments.

But morally...it's outrageous. It's just wrong.


If we can't have an honest conversation about what's wrong we're never going to get anything fixed. If every time someone points out the flaws in a system is called out for being a hateful person who wants to starve kids, keep the elderly in the poor house or whatever rhetoric is used to make someone who has it OK to feel bad...you're not going to fix anything.

I agree with the bolded.

Maybe you're just phrasing your posts in a poor manner. Your "coasting" comments really set me off. You've made valid points but you keep going back to the poor abusing the system and again, it's a very low percentage who do that. Does that mean we should just ignore the problem? No, of course not. Which is why I agree with the bolded parts of your post.