2016 Presidential Horse Race

2016 Presidential Horse Race


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Domina Nostra

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Wow, that says something about how much the RNC hates Ted Cruz. Donald Trump is now the establishment candidate.

I think its more like, "You can't be objective if you just devoted an entire magazine issue to defeating one particular canidate--especially when he is the frontrunner."

It hilarious to think of Trump as some right-winger. He has been a socialite in Manhattan for decades. He is anti-immigration and not as PC as some, and that is enough for about 35 of Republicans right now apparently. But that does not make him conservative.

So now the RNC has booted the National Review from being a media sponsor for their February debate because of their anti-Trump manifesto. This adds them to the NBC networks for 'not being fair to their candidates' in being banned.
I wish the Republicans were as concerned about protecting the First amendment as they are the Second. Since when did conservative values include 'state run media only'. Viva Fox!!!! - and their Australian overlord. (wait, can I say Viva without getting in trouble?) Long Live Fox and the Queen!!!

So why don't the democrats have debates on Fox and in front of National Review? Because they know the power of the media to shape the debate.

And what does the First Amendment have to do with anything. Does the President trsh the First Amendment if he says no to a Rush Limbaugh interview? The First Amendment is about not passing federal laws that prohibit free speech.
 
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wizards8507

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I think its more like, "You can't be objective if you just devoted an entire magazine issue to defeating one particular canidate--especially when he is the frontrunner."
National Review isn't supposed to be objective. They're a conservative publication, and they're assessing Donald Trump from that lens.
 

pkt77242

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Wow, that says something about how much the RNC hates Ted Cruz. Donald Trump is now the establishment candidate.

I think I posted an article about it yesterday. Basically the R establishment decided that Trump was the lesser of 2 evils.
 

ND NYC

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I long for a return to the days when it seemed like the sum of our entire nations' conservative vs liberal arguments and discourse could be discussed and fleshed out for one hour on sunday morning during the McLaughlin group.
they argued their points, but did so in a collegial, respectful, humourous and not mean spirited manner all the political issues of the day.

now, its 24/7 of TV/radio/media/internet empires on both sides banging their ideological drums as loud as they can continuously screaming at each other, listening to their own echo chambers of like minded "yes men/women".
 

wizards8507

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I think I posted an article about it yesterday. Basically the R establishment decided that Trump was the lesser of 2 evils.

Wizard, here is the article that I was talking about.
Ironically, this could possibly be the one thing that actually harms Trump. All of the criticism and hate thrown at him only fueled his supporters. Establishment folks getting behind Trump is going to perplex the "we hate the establishment" crowd.
 

connor_in

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I long for a return to the days when it seemed like the sum of our entire nations' conservative vs liberal arguments and discourse could be discussed and fleshed out for one hour on sunday morning during the McLaughlin group.
they argued their points, but did so in a collegial, respectful, humourous and not mean spirited manner all the political issues of the day.

now, its 24/7 of TV/radio/media/internet empires on both sides banging their ideological drums as loud as they can continuously screaming at each other, listening to their own echo chambers of like minded "yes men/women".

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/6sdVx5gQz6w" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

NDRock

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Whiskey, are you surprised by what's happening with Trump? I think the most recent wave of analysis that Trump's success is due to a so-called "conservative" base that doesn't know jack shit about conservatism is spot-on, but I never saw it coming. I can't fathom that ending corporate welfare might be a campaign-killing position for Ted Cruz in Iowa. I used to be outraged when I heard the Republican base described as bigots and xenophobes, but maybe that's who they are. They love taxing the rich and subsidizing Big Farming as much as any Democrat, they just also happen to hate brown people who talk funny and "steal their jobs." They don't know or care about Friedrich Hayek, the Laffer curve, or the tenth amendment.

I live in a very Republican county in East Tennessee. The average person I work with and come in contact here (those that are from here) aren't really into conservatism per se. They all vote Republican but for other reasons. As this is in the Bible belt, there is the belief that the Republican party is the Christian party (abortion being a big issue). The anti-Muslim rhetoric plays very well here. The 2nd Amendment issue is also huge. Many guys I work with have been stocking up on guns and ammo since Obama got in awaiting the inevitable time when the Govt. comes for their weapons. There is also an undertone of racism that is prevalent regarding Obama (lots of N words thrown around about him).

Really, these aren't stupid individuals. They just don't care about politics, guns and God are what are important to them. I mostly get the feeling that they hate Hillary much more than they like their own party's options.
 
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woolybug25

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Many guys I work with have been stocking up on guns and ammo since Obama got in awaiting the inevitable time when the Govt. comes for their weapons. There is also an undertone of racism that is prevalent regarding Obama (lots of N words thrown around about him).

Really, these aren't stupid individuals.

Well... They don't sound real intelligent...
 

NDRock

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Well... They don't sound real intelligent...

Ha, well I didn't want to come off as bashing Republicans or the locals but if you think the average person around here is discussing Friedrich Hayek, the Laffer curve, or the tenth amendment you're crazy. They're watching FOX news and hating Obama. They're also working full-time, raising families and doing their part. Maybe the average American is just an idiot.
 

Veritate Duce Progredi

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I live in a very Republican county in East Tennessee. The average person I work with and come in contact here (those that are from here) aren't really into conservatism per se. They all vote Republican but for other reasons. As this is in the Bible belt, there is the belief that the Republican party is the Christian party (abortion being a big issue). The anti-Muslim rhetoric plays very well here. The 2nd Amendment issue is also huge. Many guys I work with have been stocking up on guns and ammo since Obama got in awaiting the inevitable time when the Govt. comes for their weapons. There is also an undertone of racism that is prevalent regarding Obama (lots of N words thrown around about him).

Really, these aren't stupid individuals. They just don't care about politics, guns and God are what are important to them. I mostly get the feeling that they hate Hillary much more than they like their own party's options.

Well... They don't sound real intelligent...

Ha, well I didn't want to come off as bashing Republicans or the locals but if you think the average person around here is discussing Friedrich Hayek, the Laffer curve, or the tenth amendment you're crazy. They're watching FOX news and hating Obama. They're also working full-time, raising families and doing their part. Maybe the average American is just an idiot.

It's possible. I grew up in the midwest and I'd say the average "grown up adults" I came into contact with wouldn't be labeled as intelligent. Not trying to besmirch the whole midwest, there are some very good people there (including the majority of my family) but there is a certain lack of intellectual rigor that is pervasive. At least in the small town where I grew up.
 
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EddytoNow

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In all fairness, intellectual rigor doesn't pay the bills for the average American. There are plenty of Ph.D's and Master's Degrees unemployed or working at or near minimum wage. Reciting Shakespeare or reciting the latest theories won't put any food on the table. The average American has no respect for politics or politicians. They view it as a deceitful occupation populated by liars and scoundrels. They don't pay attention because they view politics as a dirty business.

A very large percentage of the voting population has washed their hands of the whole business by refusing to show up on election day. Unfortunately, both major parties depend upon voter apathy to remain in power. If 100% of eligible voters actually voted we could rid ourselves of the likes of Clinton, Trump, Cruz, and all the rest. Unfortunately, an honest man or woman is powerless in our current system. I, for one, would like to see "None of the Above" as a choice in every election.
 

connor_in

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Obama: Press hasn't properly vetted Sanders <a href="https://t.co/4uCJmnDQww">https://t.co/4uCJmnDQww</a> <a href="https://t.co/4pl5XH69ld">pic.twitter.com/4pl5XH69ld</a></p>— The Hill (@thehill) <a href="https://twitter.com/thehill/status/691636905218293764">January 25, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

BGIF

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Obama: Press hasn't properly vetted Sanders <a href="https://t.co/4uCJmnDQww">https://t.co/4uCJmnDQww</a> <a href="https://t.co/4pl5XH69ld">pic.twitter.com/4pl5XH69ld</a></p>— The Hill (@thehill) <a href="https://twitter.com/thehill/status/691636905218293764">January 25, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

... and when they do you'll hear Bernie made all the decisions about Benghazi, provided Hillary's private server, and told her it was okay to email confidential info to her daughter (who had no national security clearance) while she was lying to the public.
 

Whiskeyjack

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Reihan Salam just published an article in Slate titled "Donald Trump, Made in America":

Who do Republicans have to thank for the rise of Donald Trump? In a very funny way, the answer is the People’s Republic of China. No, I don’t mean to suggest that Trump is a literal Manchurian candidate, brainwashed by members of a shadowy Communist conspiracy to bring down American democracy from within. But take a look at the regions where Trump’s support is strongest, as well as his popularity among white men with a high school or lower education, and you’ll see a clear pattern. Trump’s America is the America that’s been hardest hit by Chinese-driven deindustrialization.

Over the past several months, the billionaire real estate developer has electrified Republicans by focusing his presidential campaign almost exclusively on immigration. If there is one thing that GOP primary voters know about Trump, it is that he intends to build a wall along the southern border of the United States and that he will somehow strong-arm Mexico into paying for it. If there’s another thing those voters know, it’s probably that Trump favors barring Muslims, or at least some Muslims, from entering the U.S. “until we can figure out what’s going on”—the centerpiece of his first TV campaign advertisementDonald ​Trump unveils first TV ad for Iowa, New Hampshire - CBS News. But Trump has also drawn attention to the U.S. trade deficit with China, shaking a metaphorical fist at the Asian superpower since at least 2011. And as of this week, according to a report by Maggie Haberman of the New York Times, Trump is calling for a 45 percent tariff on Chinese imports. Though Trump insists that he is “a free trader,” he argues that China’s trade practices are so egregiously unfair that the U.S. has little choice but to retaliate.

The candidate’s detractors will no doubt see his China-bashing as another example of Trumpian buffoonery. Most students of U.S.-China trade will tell you that both countries benefit from the flow of goods and services across the Pacific, and that although China is guilty of imposing nontariff barriers, subsidizing its exporters in violation of global trade rules, and failing to respect the intellectual property rights of U.S. entities, the pros for American investors, workers, and consumers massively outweigh the cons. There is a problem with that view, however.

Regardless of the effect of Chinese import competition on the U.S. economy as a whole, there is no question that its impact on some regions, and some groups of workers, has been devastating. Everyone understands that free trade will be a boon to some and a burden to others. But it is the job of government to ensure that the “losers” from Chinese import competition are given the help they need to adjust to global economic integration. And it seems pretty clear that our government hasn’t done this job terribly well.

Back in 2013, David Autor, David Dorn, and Gordon Hanson published a stunning paper analyzing the impact of Chinese competition on local labor markets in the U.S. from 1990 to 2007. Regions that bore the brunt of this competition saw higher unemployment, lower labor force participation, and reduced wages. Manufacturers that found themselves competing with Chinese imports shed jobs, and some were forced to shut down altogether. Interestingly, the decline in wages triggered by the surge in Chinese imports was primarily observed outside of the manufacturing sector. As employment levels and wages fell in the hardest-hit regions, average household earnings fell too. Inevitably, families in these regions were forced to rely on unemployment, disability, and in-kind medical benefits, among other transfers. The negative impact on employment was particularly pronounced for noncollege-educated adults.

In preliminary work, Autor, Dorn, and Hanson have found that by reducing male employment opportunities, rising Chinese import competition may have contributed to falling marriage rates and a sharp increase in the share of children raised in low-income households. These communities have seen many other problems that the authors don’t directly address, from high levels of child maltreatment and drug abuse to sky-high suicide rates. Hopelessness and despair are a familiar fact of life in Trump’s America.

Does this mean that the U.S. would have been better off had we walled ourselves off from Chinese imports, or had we imposed Trump-style 45 percent tariffs decades ago? I seriously doubt it. Yet it is striking to consider just how indifferent Republican and Democratic elites have been to the devastating effects of deindustrialization.

Ryan Avent, drawing on the work of economists Doug Campbell and Ju Hyun Pyun, has observed that between 1990 and 2002, the dollar had an effective appreciation of 49 percent, which in turn led to a spike in relative unit labor costs in the U.S. This spike alone accounts for much of the decline in manufacturing employment. Where were the voices calling on the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department to intervene in foreign-exchange markets to protect the interests of America’s manufacturing sector? They were presumably drowned out by the voices calling for policies that would protect the interests of the financial services and real estate sectors.

Of all the wackadoo ironies of Trump’s emergence as tribune of America’s white working class, the strangest of all is that as a billionaire real estate developer, Trump made his fortune in the most corrupt, coddled, and cronyist sector in the modern American economy. One of the reasons the consequences of deindustrialization were ignored by policymakers for so long is that they were masked by the housing boom. Rising home prices stimulated development and home renovation, which in turn generated employment for at least some men with high school or lower education—a disproportionately large share of whom were young immigrants and second-generation Americans living in the Sun Belt, not middle-aged whites languishing in the Rust Belt.

I have no idea if Donald Trump is going to win the Iowa caucuses or the New Hampshire primary or if he’ll go on to the win the Republican presidential nomination. What I do know is that when Trump bashes China, he is speaking to the anguish of millions of Americans who’ve long felt ignored. The failure of other Republicans to recognize that same anguish, and to do something meaningful about it, is a moral stain on the GOP.
 

phgreek

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In all fairness, intellectual rigor doesn't pay the bills for the average American. There are plenty of Ph.D's and Master's Degrees unemployed or working at or near minimum wage. Reciting Shakespeare or reciting the latest theories won't put any food on the table. The average American has no respect for politics or politicians. They view it as a deceitful occupation populated by liars and scoundrels. They don't pay attention because they view politics as a dirty business.

A very large percentage of the voting population has washed their hands of the whole business by refusing to show up on election day. Unfortunately, both major parties depend upon voter apathy to remain in power. If 100% of eligible voters actually voted we could rid ourselves of the likes of Clinton, Trump, Cruz, and all the rest. Unfortunately, an honest man or woman is powerless in our current system. I, for one, would like to see "None of the Above" as a choice in every election.

I'd rep you again...

You get it..at least based on what I'm hearing from actual people

...scratching my head at some of the other stuff being said on here
 

phgreek

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Obama: Press hasn't properly vetted Sanders <a href="https://t.co/4uCJmnDQww">https://t.co/4uCJmnDQww</a> <a href="https://t.co/4pl5XH69ld">pic.twitter.com/4pl5XH69ld</a></p>— The Hill (@thehill) <a href="https://twitter.com/thehill/status/691636905218293764">January 25, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Shoulda been punching from the start ...because they always were going to punch him...and here comes the machine, press in line. For his sake, I hope the anti-establishment feelings serve to neuter the machine and her press corps. Cause me feels some ugly (and not necessarily factual) shit is in the offing for Mr. Sanders. At the end of which he'll wish he came out like the Tasmanian devil at the beginning of his campaign...because now when he points at RICO Hillary, it'll seem too much like deflection. Good luck.
 

RDU Irish

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Trump not showing at next debate because he Megyn Kelly wasn't "fair" in an earlier one? I don't know what is worse, his whiny crap or Fox News jumping on the opportunity to make themselves the story?

Really don't know what Trump is thinking. This goes beyond stupid, pick on probably the most loved anchor of the most Republican news channel is beyond stupid. The only angle I can think, he sees reports that he gains the most ground when under attack so he turns the channel preferred by caucus/primary voters against him to motivate his base. Crazy like a fox or just plain crazy?
 

dublinirish

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Trump not showing at next debate because he Megyn Kelly wasn't "fair" in an earlier one? I don't know what is worse, his whiny crap or Fox News jumping on the opportunity to make themselves the story?

Really don't know what Trump is thinking. This goes beyond stupid, pick on probably the most loved anchor of the most Republican news channel is beyond stupid. The only angle I can think, he sees reports that he gains the most ground when under attack so he turns the channel preferred by caucus/primary voters against him to motivate his base. Crazy like a fox or just plain crazy?

he's afraid of Megyn Kelly but is gonna destroy ISIS? :D
 

connor_in

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I don't know if this is true, but it was in @FakeSwarbrick feed

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="und" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/FakeSwarbrick">@FakeSwarbrick</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump">@realDonaldTrump</a> <a href="https://t.co/ZF3i7OlRah">pic.twitter.com/ZF3i7OlRah</a></p>— TheResistanceIsHere (@1BigRigButters) <a href="https://twitter.com/1BigRigButters/status/692216935786881024">January 27, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

RDU Irish

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I don't know if this is true, but it was in @FakeSwarbrick feed

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="und" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/FakeSwarbrick">@FakeSwarbrick</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump">@realDonaldTrump</a> <a href="https://t.co/ZF3i7OlRah">pic.twitter.com/ZF3i7OlRah</a></p>— TheResistanceIsHere (@1BigRigButters) <a href="https://twitter.com/1BigRigButters/status/692216935786881024">January 27, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Love how they call Snopes a lie with the Morpheus pic. Who tries to get logical with a mock twitter handle?
 

phgreek

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he's afraid of Megyn Kelly but is gonna destroy ISIS? :D

Even worse...this tells me he knows he can't survive a hostile environment...I mean, like you say, how hostile is a fox panel going to be...Can you imagine if he had to run the gauntlet Mitt Romney ran? He will get his ass handed to him on a debate stage against Clinton or Sanders, and especially with a Candy Crowley type moderator.

The people that hang in the ballance for votes in a general election aren't the same...he will get smacked, and then even a chunk of his base won't show up to vote for him.

Trump is a BAD choice. In fact, the only one that works for me is Kasich. He brings Ohio, success, Executive experience, and optimism...someone who is electable.
 

wizards8507

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Ted Cruz is making a very strong strategic voting argument in Iowa. Anyone who supports Ben Carson, Marco Rubio, or anyone else needs to vote for Cruz to stop the Trump machine. If Cruz and Trump split Iowa and New Hampshire, then the race continues. If Trump wins both, the race is over and all of those other candidates are toast.
 

dublinirish

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Even worse...this tells me he knows he can't survive a hostile environment...I mean, like you say, how hostile is a fox panel going to be...Can you imagine if he had to run the gauntlet Mitt Romney ran? He will get his ass handed to him on a debate stage against Clinton or Sanders, and especially with a Candy Crowley type moderator.

The people that hang in the ballance for votes in a general election aren't the same...he will get smacked, and then even a chunk of his base won't show up to vote for him.

Trump is a BAD choice. In fact, the only one that works for me is Kasich. He brings Ohio, success, Executive experience, and optimism...someone who is electable.

Did you see the "press release" his camp sent out? It's a joke
 

RDU Irish

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Its all an act, I just can't figure out the angle!

A) Trying to deep six his campaign because he doesn't really want it.

B) Framing all media as garbage by calling out Fox as a Republican lap dog

C) Building the underdog/defensive reaction that has oddly solidified support in the past months

D) Some behind the scenes deal to drive ratings in return for something benefiting The Donald?

E) Pump up the rhetoric to make a bigger stage when he decides to show up - making it Trump vs. Kelly undermines the Trump vs. Cruz desired by his opposition.

More I look at it - "E" is pretty high level shit and I could see it really undermining Cruz.
 

wizards8507

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Did you see the "press release" his camp sent out? It's a joke
I'm 99% sure Trump wrote that himself.

Its all an act, I just can't figure out the angle!

A) Trying to deep six his campaign because he doesn't really want it.

B) Framing all media as garbage by calling out Fox as a Republican lap dog

C) Building the underdog/defensive reaction that has oddly solidified support in the past months

D) Some behind the scenes deal to drive ratings in return for something benefiting The Donald?

E) Pump up the rhetoric to make a bigger stage when he decides to show up - making it Trump vs. Kelly undermines the Trump vs. Cruz desired by his opposition.

More I look at it - "E" is pretty high level shit and I could see it really undermining Cruz.
It has to be E, right? I'd be shocked if he's not actually on that stage.
 

kmoose

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REALLY bad move on Trump's part. How long do you think it will take before someone starts running ads questioning if Trump will bail out of talks with world leaders that he thinks are being "unfair"?
 
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