Is Kelly a REALLY good coach?

[ginman]

Every time this guy has players out on the field he puts them in a position to get hurt! Would a good coach do that repeatedly? Its no wonder we had so many injuries.

 

[GoldenDomer]

Every time this guy has players out on the field he puts them in a position to get hurt! Would a good coach do that repeatedly? Its no wonder we had so many injuries.

Italics?

 

[NDohio]

Every time this guy has players out on the field he puts them in a position to get hurt! Would a good coach do that repeatedly? Its no wonder we had so many injuries.

Is this serious?

 

[ginman]

I didn't think I needed italics guys..... just can't believe this thread is still going

 

[NDohio]

I didn't think I needed italics guys..... just can't believe this thread is still going

I assumed as much. Unfortunately there have been some pretty outrageous, negative comments about BK from our fanbase similar to what yours was.

 

[Irish Insanity]

The fact of the matter is that we beat every team on the schedule we should beat and we lost 2/3 of the games that were toss ups. Considering the injuries and the fact that we didn't beat all the teams we should beat in 4 of the previous 5 seasons, it seems like we have made good progress. However while we were two plays away from going 12-0, we were also two plays away from going 8-4 again and many of the issues from the past continue to not get solved.

I saw significant improvement in cutting down on dumb penalties, developing capable backups (other than at MLB), and making halftime adjustments. There's still a lot of work to be done on redzone offense, tackling, time management, and 2 point conversion decision-making.

Overall, this season basically met my expectations in terms of record. It did not exceed my expectations. Therefore, evaluation of BK basically shifts to next season. If we get 10 wins again I will be on board long term. 8 or less will be a disaster. 9 will depend on how good the teams are on our schedule.

Spot on. Great post.

Most of what you said is fair, but you basically give no credit for beating the teams we should. Just because we're favored in ~8 games and win doesn't make that 'neutral' in regards to impressiveness. There's something to be said in CFB for not having a WTF game.

You're typically favored for a reason. The 'experts' think you're a better team and should win. This isn't a participation ribbon sport.
We had a WTF game Saturday. And a few each year for as long as I remember.

 

[IrishLion]

We had a WTF game Saturday.

We did?

 

[woolybug25]

Spot on. Great post.



You're typically favored for a reason. The 'experts' think you're a better team and should win. This isn't a participation ribbon sport.
We had a WTF game Saturday. And a few each year for as long as I remember.

We lost by two in a game we were 4 point dogs in. How is that a WTF game?

 

[Irish Insanity]

We did?

We lost by two in a game we were 4 point dogs in. How is that a WTF game?

With 30 seconds on the clock, and the lead, we allowed a team to easily march in to FG range. Our D conpletelt shit the bed. How is it not.

And we barely won the previous week also. He'll it was a wlW, but I'd consider that a WTF games as well.

 

[woolybug25]

With 30 seconds on the clock, and the lead, we allowed a team to easily march in to FG range. Our D conpletelt shit the bed. How is it not.

And we barely won the previous week also. He'll it was a wlW, but I'd consider that a WTF games as well.

I guess we have different definitions of "WTF Games". To me, that is throwing a fade route instead of kicking a field goal or losing to team you're favored double digits against. Giving up a first down to a team that had been driving all game long is not a WTF moment. It was almost the exact opposite of a surprise moment. They literally had been doing it all game and they ended up winning just like many people thought they would.

Not every loss is a WTF moment. This one certainly wasn't.

 

[IrishLion]

With 30 seconds on the clock, and the lead, we allowed a team to easily march in to FG range. Our D conpletelt shit the bed. How is it not.

And we barely won the previous week also. He'll it was a wlW, but I'd consider that a WTF games as well.

To me, a WTF game is losing to an opponent that we have no business losing to. Tulsa in 2010 was that. USF in 2011 as well. Syracuse in 2008 was the epitome of WTF. But Stanford driving down the field in 30 seconds? It sucked, but wasn't unbelievable.

I guess we have different definitions of "WTF Games". To me, that is throwing a fade route instead of kicking a field goal or losing to team you're favored double digits against. Giving up a first down to a team that had been driving all game long is not a WTF moment. It was almost the exact opposite of a surprise moment. They literally had been doing it all game and they ended up winning just like many people thought they would.

Not every loss is a WTF moment. This one certainly wasn't.

All of this.

 

[IrishLax]

USF in 2011 was the just... I don't even have words. I was at that game and with the rain delays and everything else I still can't even really comprehend what happened from the fumble return onward.

Northwestern last year was also very much so a "WTF" style game. Just so much terribad play, and we've still got the game won and then Cam McDaniel coughs the ball up while running out the clock.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

The fact of the matter is that we beat every team on the schedule we should beat and we lost 2/3 of the games that were toss ups. Considering the injuries and the fact that we didn't beat all the teams we should beat in 4 of the previous 5 seasons, it seems like we have made good progress. However while we were two plays away from going 12-0, we were also two plays away from going 8-4 again and many of the issues from the past continue to not get solved.

I saw significant improvement in cutting down on dumb penalties, developing capable backups (other than at MLB), and making halftime adjustments. There's still a lot of work to be done on redzone offense, tackling, time management, and 2 point conversion decision-making.

Overall, this season basically met my expectations in terms of record. It did not exceed my expectations. Therefore, evaluation of BK basically shifts to next season. If we get 10 wins again I will be on board long term. 8 or less will be a disaster. 9 will depend on how good the teams are on our schedule.

Based on how this team completely fell apart last year after injuries, how could your expectation not have been exceeded once the injury bug struck again? The fact that they won 10 games is incredible (not to mention being very close to going 11-1 or 12-0).

With 30 seconds on the clock, and the lead, we allowed a team to easily march in to FG range. Our D conpletelt shit the bed. How is it not.

And we barely won the previous week also. He'll it was a wlW, but I'd consider that a WTF games as well.

1) Everyone knew BC would be a tough, low scoring game. They have a really good defense. Did ND play poorly? Yes. Could it have been a blow out? Yes. Getting out of BC alive regardless of 'how' is not what I consider a "WTF Game."

2) Like Wooly explained, Stanford did that to ND's defense the entire game. When ND scored, I knew with almost certainty that there was too much time on the clock left and that Stanford would move the ball on the defense and get into FG range. Again, not a WTF Game.

 

[gkIrish]

Based on how this team completely fell apart last year after injuries, how could your expectation not have been exceeded once the injury bug struck again? The fact that they won 10 games is incredible (not to mention being very close to going 11-1 or 12-0)..

Just because we sucked after injuries last year and didn't suck this year has no bearing on what my expectations were. I didn't expect to lose 5 of 6 games to end 2015. In doing so my expectations didn't somehow decrease for this season.

 

[IrishinSyria]

I expected us to lose go 8-4, but I also expected Texas, GT, and USC to be better so on balance I'm happy with the season, and thrilled with Kizer.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Just because we sucked after injuries last year and didn't suck this year has no bearing on what my expectations were. I didn't expect to lose 5 of 6 games to end 2015. In doing so my expectations didn't somehow decrease for this season.

There's a reason people are fearing the severity of Gronk's injury. The Patriots could very well lose their entire receiving corps (Gronk and Edelman are 2 of the top 3 players on the team) and expectations for a Super Bowl victory will drop considerably. Why? Because injuries matter and they change expectations.

At the beginning of the season if you knew ND would suffer the injury plague like one experienced this season, there is no way you would have expected to win 10 games and be that close to being 11-1 or 12-0 with a shot at the playoffs. You're setting yourself up for an extreme let down, year after year, if you set your expectations really high and refuse to re-evaluate as the season plays out (ie. injuries in this context).

 

[philipm31]

Yes. Feunte took an average mid-major team and turned them into an excellent mid-major that can play with, and sometimes even beat, good major conference teams.




Just like Brian Kelly did, at Cincinnati. But let's can one coach du jour for another?

NOT what I said AT ALL.

The point is that Kelly does not seem to be getting better and he is not going to stay here much longer unless he gets a natty in the next couple seasons, so the point is that we need to be vigilant about the future. If not, we will have a massive dry spell along the lines of the post-Holtz era.

Note, I am NOT calling for his ouster, just that ND needs to be watchful for another under-the-radar gem that can work here at ND like Lou did.

 

[NDohio]

NOT what I said AT ALL.

The point is that Kelly does not seem to be getting better and he is not going to stay here much longer unless he gets a natty in the next couple seasons, so the point is that we need to be vigilant about the future. If not, we will have a massive dry spell along the lines of the post-Holtz era.

Note, I am NOT calling for his ouster, just that ND needs to be watchful for another under-the-radar gem that can work here at ND like Lou did.

I really don't have any idea how you can say this.

When BK first got to ND he had absolutely no idea what kind of kid to recruit to ND. His first couple of classes completely fell apart as a result of that. He has made adjustments on how he recruits and his last couple classes - and this year's class - are solid and the kids are true ND kids.

Realizing he needed to be challenged on the offensive side of the ball, he went out and and hired someone outside of his comfort zone in Mike Sanford Jr. Mike earned the opportunity to be very involved in the offense ND ran this year - IMO that is a HUGE improvement for BK. He was married to his offense and to relinquish any control of it had to be hard for him.

He went outside of his typical coaching tree to bring in some former ND players to be a part of his staff. Having that presence for kids that are trying to balance real school and football at ND is huge.

Remember ole purple face? I know he had the incident this year, but that was really nothing compared to the way he used to be. BK was a hothead and he needed to get it under control. For the most part he has.

 

[RDU Irish]

I agree, BK has matured. Step one has been - beat who you should. While I complain that we don't curb stomp those who we should, we at least are not losing to them and have reasonable control of the game - examples of BC and Wake Forest were never really in question but scores got closer than they should. "First do no harm" seems to be the mantra and it is a good place to start for a program that has screwed the pooch more times than I would like to recount the past two decades.

Other top tier teams are putting up 50+ points this time of the year against unranked teams. Instead, we get uber conservative in play calling and miss an opportunity to make a statement + get reps for back ups. The percentage of snaps taken by starters for us is way higher than it should be.

If we don't get some "eye of the tiger" next season or in the bowl game I will be disappointed. Put fear in the hearts of opponents that we might hang 60 on ANYBODY any given weekend. That will pressure their offense to make mistakes from the start and our defense play loose and free. We are that good and need to start playing like it.

 

[stlnd01]

Not every loss is a WTF moment. This one certainly wasn't.

It is to the crowd who still thinks we can strap on the gold helmets, queue up the fight song and win every game 38-0 like its 1946 or something. But some people will never be satisfied.

BC was a legit WTF game. I blame the stupid Shamrock Series, and maybe under rating/disrespecting a foe that cares a lot more about that game than we do. Maybe Virginia qualifies, too. The rest? No. We lost hard-fought, toss-up road games to top ten teams and beat everyone else in respectable fashion or better. That's what good teams do, and it's something we couldn't do for a long long time. Kelly has changed that. Reps to him.

 

[CIrishWin]

I agree, BK has matured. Step one has been - beat who you should. While I complain that we don't curb stomp those who we should, we at least are not losing to them and have reasonable control of the game - examples of BC and Wake Forest were never really in question but scores got closer than they should. "First do no harm" seems to be the mantra and it is a good place to start for a program that has screwed the pooch more times than I would like to recount the past two decades.

Other top tier teams are putting up 50+ points this time of the year against unranked teams. Instead, we get uber conservative in play calling and miss an opportunity to make a statement + get reps for back ups. The percentage of snaps taken by starters for us is way higher than it should be.

If we don't get some "eye of the tiger" next season or in the bowl game I will be disappointed. Put fear in the hearts of opponents that we might hang 60 on ANYBODY any given weekend. That will pressure their offense to make mistakes from the start and our defense play loose and free. We are that good and need to start playing like it.

I AGREE I THINK IT IS MORE NOW HOW ND WINS NOT IF THEY WIN

 

[pumpdog20]

I agree, BK has matured. Step one has been - beat who you should. While I complain that we don't curb stomp those who we should, we at least are not losing to them and have reasonable control of the game - examples of BC and Wake Forest were never really in question but scores got closer than they should. "First do no harm" seems to be the mantra and it is a good place to start for a program that has screwed the pooch more times than I would like to recount the past two decades.

Other top tier teams are putting up 50+ points this time of the year against unranked teams. Instead, we get uber conservative in play calling and miss an opportunity to make a statement + get reps for back ups. The percentage of snaps taken by starters for us is way higher than it should be.

If we don't get some "eye of the tiger" next season or in the bowl game I will be disappointed. Put fear in the hearts of opponents that we might hang 60 on ANYBODY any given weekend. That will pressure their offense to make mistakes from the start and our defense play loose and free. We are that good and need to start playing like it.

I don't think we're getting uber conservative late in the season. I think we've been beat down by injuries, and it's taken a toll on the team.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I agree, BK has matured. Step one has been - beat who you should. While I complain that we don't curb stomp those who we should, we at least are not losing to them and have reasonable control of the game - examples of BC and Wake Forest were never really in question but scores got closer than they should. "First do no harm" seems to be the mantra and it is a good place to start for a program that has screwed the pooch more times than I would like to recount the past two decades.

Other top tier teams are putting up 50+ points this time of the year against unranked teams. Instead, we get uber conservative in play calling and miss an opportunity to make a statement + get reps for back ups. The percentage of snaps taken by starters for us is way higher than it should be.

If we don't get some "eye of the tiger" next season or in the bowl game I will be disappointed. Put fear in the hearts of opponents that we might hang 60 on ANYBODY any given weekend. That will pressure their offense to make mistakes from the start and our defense play loose and free. We are that good and need to start playing like it.

The bolded is where I am. The offense, even with plug-and-play backups, was pretty damn good at moving the ball on anyone. They had moments of sluggishness, but overall, they showed they can dominate teams between the 20s. If they can get their red zone TD% up near 70% or higher, they will flat out annihilate teams. They're good enough to do it. They just need to actually make it happen.

 

[RDU Irish]

It is to the crowd who still thinks we can strap on the gold helmets, queue up the fight song and win every game 38-0 like its 1946 or something. But some people will never be satisfied.

BC was a legit WTF game. I blame the stupid Shamrock Series, and maybe under rating/disrespecting a foe that cares a lot more about that game than we do. Maybe Virginia qualifies, too. The rest? No. We lost hard-fought, toss-up road games to top ten teams and beat everyone else in respectable fashion or better. That's what good teams do, and it's something we couldn't do for a long long time. Kelly has changed that. Reps to him.

I blame 5 turnovers. Overcoming that against just about anyone is no easy feat.

 

[NDohio]

The bolded is where I am. The offense, even with plug-and-play backups, was pretty damn good at moving the ball on anyone. They had moments of sluggishness, but overall, they showed they can dominate teams between the 20s. If they can get their red zone TD% up near 70% or higher, they will flat out annihilate teams. They're good enough to do it. They just need to actually make it happen.

I do wonder how much of our sluggishness down the stretch was just pure tiredness. We lost some serious depth and four of our last five games were on the road. I know we didn't travel far for all those away games(except Stanford), but it's still extra wear and tear.

 

[RDU Irish]

Two hour bus ride into Clemson stadium - didn't come out swinging there either. Travel is tough, part of why home field advantage counts for so much in pretty much every sport, on every level.

 

[ND NYC]

our guys will be delta skymiles elite members by the time they graduate with all the travel they do.

 

[kmoose]

Other top tier teams are putting up 50+ points this time of the year against unranked teams. Instead, we get uber conservative in play calling and miss an opportunity to make a statement + get reps for back ups. The percentage of snaps taken by starters for us is way higher than it should be.

The thing is: half of the starters ARE back ups!

 

[Circa]

Can we please for a Trillion VBUCKS take this thread and throw It as far as Kizer To Golsen?

<iframe src="//giphy.com/embed/gJcSq3BDGssAU" width="480" height="207" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="http://giphy.com/gifs/cheezburger-funny-wtf-gJcSq3BDGssAU">via GIPHY</a></p>


No... Really.

 

[no.1IrishFan]

This is reply #1,000 to a thread that should have died on its first day.