Is Kelly a REALLY good coach?

[kmoose]

I'm not criticizing Kelly on this point. The conversation started simply because I declined to praise him as profusely as others have for all of the injury management.

How is this NOT criticizing him?

The fact that Kizer and Prosise proved to be better than the guys they replaced is not a feather in BK's cap. It's a giant question as to why he didn't identify that prior to the injuries.

 

[IrishLax]

I know what you mean............. Tom Brady versus Drew Bledsoe? Bill Belichick obviously can't identify the best players on his team.

And don't even get me started on that Joe Motana versus Steve Young abortion by Bill Walsh!

Lol kmoose dropping the hammer...

Remember when Pete Carroll sat Clay Matthews Jr. on the bench for his entire career until an injury thrust him into action? What a horrible coach for having a very talented starter (Cushing) playing in front of a very talented backup.

 

[wizards8507]

I'll put it this way. I think we would have been better than 8-5 last season if Golson had gotten injured in the first game. It should never be the case that it's a good thing to lose your starting QB to injury.

 

[IrishLax]

I'll put it this way. I think we would have been better than 8-5 last season if Golson had gotten injured in the first game. It should never be the case that it's a good thing to lose your starting QB to injury.

We should've been better than 8-5 last year if the defense fell off a cliff.

There was no saving that team regardless of QB, IMO, because we didn't have Sanford. Our running scheme this year was just exceptional. Kelly & Co were incapable of doing that last year regardless of personnel.

 

[Junkhead]

We should've been better than 8-5 last year if the defense fell off a cliff.

There was no saving that team regardless of QB, IMO, because we didn't have Sanford. Our running scheme this year was just exceptional. Kelly & Co were incapable of doing that last year regardless of personnel.

I'm too lazy to look up stats, but I would guess it's been since the Holtz years since we had such a productive rushing game. There was a large stretch in the Davie, Weis, Willingham, and early Kelly years where we had a VERY weak ground game. Sure we got some yards back in the day with Darius Walker, or Julius Jones, but it was nowhere near as consistent as this season. Weak D aside, having an offense that can move the ball on the ground was fun to watch. Until they hit the red zone that is.....

 

[sharksamardzija8345]

All I did was ask a straightforward question?

I think Matt Johns had a banner day, and Hogan obviously did. I think that's probably it. Maybe Kessler? Though he was picked twice.

Bigger issue this year (statistically) was big runs.

Yeah big runs and not getting off the field on 3rd down. Saw something like 24 drives given up over 75 yards. Too many.

 

[nd_fan]

We're two plays away from being undefeated and being the No. 1 team in the country," coach Brian Kelly said. "One play at Clemson and one play here at Stanford."

This really hits me hard

 

[nd_fan]

Interesting Fact

Brian Kelly went for 2 pints early in the 4th which he has donet three times the last two years. All ended up being critical decisions, all ended up losses

1) 2014 Northwestern
2) 2015 Clemson
3) 2015 Stanford

 

[NDdomer2]

I don't see how the 2 pt attempt Saturday had any impact on the outcome. Only difference is we prolly would have went for two on last td to make it a 3 point game. Given our success rate, most likely would have failed. Not saying I agree with going for it when he did, just saying it didn't matter.

 

[ulukinatme]

Sure. Everett Golson versus Malik Zaire. Malik Zaire versus Deshone Kizer. Joe Schmidt versus anybody. Tarean Folston versus CJ Prosise. I don't think identifying the best players on the roster is one of Kelly's strong points.

I was going to come out and point out how bad Kizer looked in the Spring compared to the other QBs...but based on the replies it looks like everyone has already responded to this post

 

[philipm31]

I don't see how the 2 pt attempt Saturday had any impact on the outcome. Only difference is we prolly would have went for two on last td to make it a 3 point game. Given our success rate, most likely would have failed. Not saying I agree with going for it when he did, just saying it didn't matter.

The reason is did not matter is because we had 0 TDs in the RZ in the first half.

For the fifth straight year, our RZ offense was abominable.

A REALLY GOOD HC fixes that in two years, end of story. He does not let it become a defining characteristic of the team for five years.

Kelly is a good coach, not a great coach, never an elite coach...and I certainly think that ND could do better if that had a coach who actually worked on major weaknesses of his team and style of play--like horrible ball security and ineffectual RZ offense for starters.

To think that Kelly is a REALLY good coach is a stretch. I think he is a decent coach, but his decision-making skills have always been a question, since Day 1 and he clearly has not improved on them.

ND needs to start looking to replace him, because you know he is not long for ND. Ten years is the max a coach realistically wants to coach at ND, so when I see something like Fuente going to VT, I get incensed, because you look at the job he did at Memphis taking WALKONS and turning them into a standout WR corps and making Lynch into an NFL QB, then you know he would love the challenge of coaching elite talent at ND.

IOW, Kelly's not really getting better at coaching and we need to plan for the future...and the sooner, the better.

 

[kmoose]

ND needs to start looking to replace him, because you know he is not long for ND. Ten years is the max a coach realistically wants to coach at ND, so when I see something like Fuente going to VT, I get incensed, because you look at the job he did at Memphis taking WALKONS and turning them into a standout WR corps and making Lynch into an NFL QB, then you know he would love the challenge of coaching elite talent at ND.

Yes. Feunte took an average mid-major team and turned them into an excellent mid-major that can play with, and sometimes even beat, good major conference teams.




Just like Brian Kelly did, at Cincinnati. But let's can one coach du jour for another?

 

[kmoose]

Yeah big runs and not getting off the field on 3rd down. Saw something like 24 drives given up over 75 yards. Too many.

ND's defense was the #18 ranked defense in 3rd down conversion percentage, this season. 3rd down was NOT an issue for this team.

 

[gkIrish]

ND's defense was the #18 ranked defense in 3rd down conversion percentage, this season. 3rd down was NOT an issue for this team.

Just curious if you think the team had any issues at all?

 

[Irish Insanity]

I was going to come out and point out how bad Kizer looked in the Spring compared to the other QBs...but based on the replies it looks like everyone has already responded to this post

IIRC Zaire didn't look good either.

As far as the 'QB having their best day vs our D' discussion, with the continual scheduling of FCS teams that can't be accurately measured unless it's trimmed down to only include their games vs P5 teams. Our D this year's simply was not good. Imagine if our D could've gotten stops how great our O would've looked. Man the points we could've put up with more possessions.

 

[rocket66]

Just curious if you think the team had any issues at all?

Ha.


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[kmoose]

Just curious if you think the team had any issues at all?

Yes. And I have said as much, all over this board. What I HAVEN'T done, I don't think, is allow my emotional reaction to overrule reality. I'm perfectly fine with reasonable criticism. Just last night, I had this exchange:

ND's defense was #18 on 3rd down defense. They allowed a first down conversion on 3rd down only 32.9% of the time. That's better than LSU, Ohio State, Michigan State, and Oklahoma, to name a few. So I'm not sure what you think you saw this year, but ND's defense being bad on 3rd down wasn't it.

They're a very average defense with potential first round draft pics at DL, LB, and CB. That's the issue, IMO.

That's a fair observation. Characterizing this defense as terrible on 3rd down is not.

 

[T Town Tommy]

The reason is did not matter is because we had 0 TDs in the RZ in the first half.

For the fifth straight year, our RZ offense was abominable.

A REALLY GOOD HC fixes that in two years, end of story. He does not let it become a defining characteristic of the team for five years.

Kelly is a good coach, not a great coach, never an elite coach...and I certainly think that ND could do better if that had a coach who actually worked on major weaknesses of his team and style of play--like horrible ball security and ineffectual RZ offense for starters.

To think that Kelly is a REALLY good coach is a stretch. I think he is a decent coach, but his decision-making skills have always been a question, since Day 1 and he clearly has not improved on them.

ND needs to start looking to replace him, because you know he is not long for ND. Ten years is the max a coach realistically wants to coach at ND, so when I see something like Fuente going to VT, I get incensed, because you look at the job he did at Memphis taking WALKONS and turning them into a standout WR corps and making Lynch into an NFL QB, then you know he would love the challenge of coaching elite talent at ND.

IOW, Kelly's not really getting better at coaching and we need to plan for the future...and the sooner, the better.

While I do agree BK is not an elite coach, I think he has done a tremendous job at ND. I also think comparing him to other coaches is a stretch. Coaching at ND is different than coaching at Memphis. I have tremendous respect for Fuentes and have posted as such before. I do think he will be a good coach... but an elite coach may be a little farther than I want to go right now. But putting him at ND over Kelly is a bit of a stretch. I don't think there is a coach anywhere that doesn't have some issues they need to address and fix.

My only real complaint on BK is more of an observation than a complaint. To be in the thick of a potential playoff bid, the last 3-4 games he seemed seriously distracted and his body language on the sideline appeared to be somewhat disinterested in the happenings of the game. Just struck me as odd and maybe it was just me misinterpreting his actions. To me,in years past, he showed more emotion and was more animated. Maybe just a sign of coaching maturity and the ability to be bigger than the sways of a game. Outside of that, BK did an amazing job with what he had.

 

[NDRock]

Yes. Feunte took an average mid-major team and turned them into an excellent mid-major that can play with, and sometimes even beat, good major conference teams.




Just like Brian Kelly did, at Cincinnati. But let's can one coach du jour for another?

Exactly.

 

[rocket66]

While I do agree BK is not an elite coach, I think he has done a tremendous job at ND. I also think comparing him to other coaches is a stretch. Coaching at ND is different than coaching at Memphis. I have tremendous respect for Fuentes and have posted as such before. I do think he will be a good coach... but an elite coach may be a little farther than I want to go right now. But putting him at ND over Kelly is a bit of a stretch. I don't think there is a coach anywhere that doesn't have some issues they need to address and fix.

My only real complaint on BK is more of an observation than a complaint. To be in the thick of a potential playoff bid, the last 3-4 games he seemed seriously distracted and his body language on the sideline appeared to be somewhat disinterested in the happenings of the game. Just struck me as odd and maybe it was just me misinterpreting his actions. To me,in years past, he showed more emotion and was more animated. Maybe just a sign of coaching maturity and the ability to be bigger than the sways of a game. Outside of that, BK did an amazing job with what he had.

I thought about this, and the pessimist in me started thinking maybe BK had checked out and had other things in the works. I think the reality is that he completely changed his personality the last few games after the sideline incident going after the asst strength coach. He knows he has to keep things in check.


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[NDPhilly]

The reason is did not matter is because we had 0 TDs in the RZ in the first half.

For the fifth straight year, our RZ offense was abominable.

A REALLY GOOD HC fixes that in two years, end of story. He does not let it become a defining characteristic of the team for five years.

Kelly is a good coach, not a great coach, never an elite coach...and I certainly think that ND could do better if that had a coach who actually worked on major weaknesses of his team and style of play--like horrible ball security and ineffectual RZ offense for starters.

To think that Kelly is a REALLY good coach is a stretch. I think he is a decent coach, but his decision-making skills have always been a question, since Day 1 and he clearly has not improved on them.

ND needs to start looking to replace him, because you know he is not long for ND. Ten years is the max a coach realistically wants to coach at ND, so when I see something like Fuente going to VT, I get incensed, because you look at the job he did at Memphis taking WALKONS and turning them into a standout WR corps and making Lynch into an NFL QB, then you know he would love the challenge of coaching elite talent at ND.

IOW, Kelly's not really getting better at coaching and we need to plan for the future...and the sooner, the better.

Lol

 

[gkIrish]

The fact of the matter is that we beat every team on the schedule we should beat and we lost 2/3 of the games that were toss ups. Considering the injuries and the fact that we didn't beat all the teams we should beat in 4 of the previous 5 seasons, it seems like we have made good progress. However while we were two plays away from going 12-0, we were also two plays away from going 8-4 again and many of the issues from the past continue to not get solved.

I saw significant improvement in cutting down on dumb penalties, developing capable backups (other than at MLB), and making halftime adjustments. There's still a lot of work to be done on redzone offense, tackling, time management, and 2 point conversion decision-making.

Overall, this season basically met my expectations in terms of record. It did not exceed my expectations. Therefore, evaluation of BK basically shifts to next season. If we get 10 wins again I will be on board long term. 8 or less will be a disaster. 9 will depend on how good the teams are on our schedule.

 

[tussin]

Brian kelley is not a elite coach period. the fact of the amtter is that 2 looses are unexceptable. plane and simple.

ND has no exscuse not to score in the red zone every single time. They have more talent than anyyone on theyre schdule. Can't aford to loose to a buncha nerds like stanford.

 

[koonja]

The fact of the matter is that we beat every team on the schedule we should beat and we lost 2/3 of the games that were toss ups. Considering the injuries and the fact that we didn't beat all the teams we should beat in 4 of the previous 5 seasons, it seems like we have made good progress. However while we were two plays away from going 12-0, we were also two plays away from going 8-4 again and many of the issues from the past continue to not get solved.

I saw significant improvement in cutting down on dumb penalties, developing capable backups (other than at MLB), and making halftime adjustments. There's still a lot of work to be done on redzone offense, tackling, time management, and 2 point conversion decision-making.

Overall, this season basically met my expectations in terms of record. It did not exceed my expectations. Therefore, evaluation of BK basically shifts to next season. If we get 10 wins again I will be on board long term. 8 or less will be a disaster. 9 will depend on how good the teams are on our schedule.

Most of what you said is fair, but you basically give no credit for beating the teams we should. Just because we're favored in ~8 games and win doesn't make that 'neutral' in regards to impressiveness. There's something to be said in CFB for not having a WTF game.

 

[gkIrish]

I will add that this season was the year, in terms of both schedule and returning talent, that I believed gave us our best chance to win a championship.

We came pretty close to getting a playoff spot but I personally don't think we were a top 4 team and would not have won 2 playoff games. I'm worried that BK can't get us over that last hump. If the ultimate goal is to win a championship (as it should be IMO) I don't think he will be the guy to get us there. I'm not saying we need to go with someone else, but I think until we get a new coach we aren't going to win a championship.

 

[FDNYIrish1]

2 games lost on the last play of the game and finish 10-2. I know this nonsense goes on in every programs fan base, but some of you guys have got to be kidding. Kelly is a very good coach and putting this program in a great position to succeed with depth and talent. The future is bright.

 

[gkIrish]

Most of what you said is fair, but you basically give no credit for beating the teams we should. Just because we're favored in ~8 games and win doesn't make that 'neutral' in regards to impressiveness. There's something to be said in CFB for not having a WTF game.

I am giving him credit for winning all the games he should (hence me saying we made progress). Avoiding WTF games is a critical aspect of a successful season, but when you combine that with 0 top 20 wins it just doesn't do as much for me.

Iowa basically won all the games they should win and people think they are a crap team.

 

[tussin]

Overall, I was very pleased with what I saw from ND this year, particularly on the offensive side of the ball. Great balance with the play calling and really amazing player development by the staff. It goes to show how beneficial it is to have a top offensive line to lean on.

Defensively, the biggest issue is that somehow ND had an overall average defense despite having top talent at every level (Day, Smith, Russell, Luke). Our inability to get stops on 3rd down and cover the middle of the field really killed the defense. Individual players blew coverages and missed tackles in key moments almost every game. If those mistakes happened once, it's on the player. But when the same mistakes happen every single game, the blame shifts to the coaches (sorry BVG, sorry Lyght).

If we are going to criticize Kelly for anything, I think we have to question his extreme loyalty to certain players. It's obvious who I am mostly referring to, but how can you not make a change when production is THAT bad ALL year? Work in some other guys... there is absolutely no downside.

Finally, it was nice to see ND dominate the games that they SHOULD win. That's the first year in a long time that it has happened. The only bad game that was up for grabs was UVA and there are legitimate excuses for that performance.

 

[gkIrish]

Brian kelley is not a elite coach period. the fact of the amtter is that 2 looses are unexceptable. plane and simple.

ND has no exscuse not to score in the red zone every single time. They have more talent than anyyone on theyre schdule. Can't aford to loose to a buncha nerds like stanford.

Overall, I was very pleased with what I saw from ND this year, particularly on the offensive side of the ball. Great balance with the play calling and really amazing player development by the staff. It goes to show how beneficial it is to have a top offensive line to lean on.

Defensively, the biggest issue is that somehow ND had an overall average defense despite having top talent at every level (Day, Smith, Russell, Luke). Our inability to get stops on 3rd down and cover the middle of the field really killed the defense. Individual players blew coverages and missed tackles in key moments almost every game. If those mistakes happened once, it's on the player. But when the same mistakes happen every single game, the blame shifts to the coaches (sorry BVG, sorry Lyght).

If we are going to criticize Kelly for anything, I think we have to question his extreme loyalty to certain players. It's obvious who I am mostly referring to, but how can you not make a change when production is THAT bad ALL year? Work in some other guys... there is absolutely no downside.

Finally, it was nice to see ND dominate the games that they SHOULD win. That's the first year in a long time that it has happened. The only bad game that was up for grabs was UVA and there are legitimate excuses for that performance.

I'm so confused. It's almost like 2 different people wrote these posts lol

 

[tussin]

I'm so confused. It's almost like 2 different people wrote these posts lol

I usually follow my hot takes with a legitimate post so the thread doesn't go completely off the rails.