Is Kelly a REALLY good coach?

[IrishJayhawk]

It is.

He only had 4 seasons without 10+ wins.

He's taking a shot at people who were defending BK's record in the previous thread.

 

[Irish Insanity]

He's taking a shot at people who were defending BK's record in the previous thread.

Please don't get it twisted. My issue isn't with anyone's support of him. My issue is with those who take issue with fans that think there is room for improvement, and for fans who think 10 wins consistently should be a goal.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Please don't get it twisted. My issue isn't with anyone's support of him. My issue is with those who take issue with fans that think there is room for improvement, and for fans who think 10 wins consistently should be a goal.

I didn't mean to twist anything. Just meant to point out that you were being sarcastic.

That said, I still think the argument takes the win total completely out of context, i.e., inherited players, injury issues, a series of unfortunate events at the QB position, and the fact that Notre Dame is Notre Dame with regard to recruiting, JUCO players, gray shirting, etc.

 

[kmoose]

All-Time Coaching Records by Year

 

[CanadalovesND]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ND?src=hash">#ND</a>'s 2 losses were by 2 pts apiece to top 10 teams on the road..considering the injuries, terrific job this yr by Brian Kelly</p>— Rich Cirminiello (@RichCirminiello) <a href="https://twitter.com/RichCirminiello/status/670819084301398016">November 29, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[shalom]

Please don't get it twisted. My issue isn't with anyone's support of him. My issue is with those who take issue with fans that think there is room for improvement, and for fans who think 10 wins consistently should be a goal.

Your problem is the blanket sentiment about "those who take issue with fans that think there is room for improvement." It's not that someone believes there's room for improvement, normal people get annoyed with criers and Monday morning types who flail around after losses. There's certainly room for improvement, even if you're Ohio State or Alabama. You don't even have to log into IE to have predicted this crybaby thread would be at the top of the forum. People can't handle losing, they lash out, they cry irrationally. There's also people who logically express a sentiment about reasonable improvement. Step 1: disassociate the two.

Also a blanket "10 loss" means nothing at all. 10 wins with a half dozen key starters out for much of the season with 2 losses on the road to top teams isn't the same thing as 10 losses playing a pansy schedule and no effort by the team. If the rational ppl on this thread do anything constructive it would be to dissuade anyone who just looks some blanket "required wins" per season as if means anything at all.

I've maintained that Kelly isn't really a superlative Xs & Os genius. But he did a great job this year, beyond what could be casually expected of even the best coaches. It would be hard to convince most football observers of that fact.

 

[NDinL.A.]

This streak of losses has me wondering this. This is the second game in a row that Kelly was directly responsible for a loss. The way he's brought the program up is good, but to be honest, how much of that is ND and how much of that is Kelly?

His on-field coaching, and especially his playcalling has ranged from generally okay to downright abysmal. Seriously, some of his on-field decisions have reached brainless levels.

If they lose to USC next week, as is expected, does this put Kelly on the hot seat? He's had 5 years to fix this mess, and outside of a miracle 2012 season that ended in calamity, it's been rather underwhelming and this year is probably the worst I've seen. Simply put, 7-5 in year 5 at ND is unacceptable and we are sniffing that.

In addition, this loss clinches the 4th season in 5 years under Kelly with 4 losses or more. Lose next week, and it'll be 3 out of 5 years with 5 losses. That's not the makings of a good coach at ND.

I love this thread, mostly because 2 games after this was posted last year, this same poster argued that Kelly should be mentioned with the elite coaches in the game, and was just a shade under Urban Meyer. He also argued that 2012 was not a miracle and outlined why it wasn't LOL.

Sorry, but after such a gut-wrenching loss, I needed a laugh. Or as NDSean/crazyBalki always says, "I needed a place to vent, and you need to let me do that!"

 

[Grahambo]

The answer is still yes.

 

[ickythump1225]

The decision to go for 2 may or may not have hurt us in the end but you know what I'm not going to MMQB it. I like the aggression. You can call it "chasing points" or whatever but I like a coach who errs on the side of aggression.

 

[ThePiombino]

The answer is still yes.

Yup.

 

[Cackalacky]

Amazing job overall by Coach BK. Great year considering everything that happened. After five years I sold him but it's clear this year that his kids are coming along developmentally as well as adding depth and talent across the board. I think if we even had half our hurt starters we could have gone undefeated convincingly this year. I originally predicted 9-3.

Most games our offense did more than enough to win games but the ones we did not we lost because of TOs and for the most part dreadful red zone execution.

Well done Coach BK.

 

[irish4ever]

I think Kelly is real good fit for ND. He has the Irish back in NC consideration, 10 wins with a beat up team, recruiting has greatly improved during his tenure, he has put together a good coaching staff, etc. One area that I don't like about his decision making is going for 2 pts. It cost us a game last year, going for the 1st 2-pt. against Clemson this yr. that went thru Corey's hands (if went for 1 at that point they would have been kicking an extra point at the end of the game for a tie) and even the 2 pts. try last night. Though that one didn't make margin difference, it didn't make sense at the time to go for 2. To me he seems to resort to the 2 pt. conversion too early in the game and he needs to let it play out until later in the game.

I do hope that stays with Irish for years to come though. Overall he's a good fit for ND!

 

[Guest]

If Kelly has a true weakness, it is in hiring bad assistants. There have been several coaches here that just weren't that good or are just average, and that affects the performance of entire position groups on the field. Now that the talent is about where Kelly wants it (witness his comments on the team's depth this year), maybe the only true obstacle to winning a championship is the coaching staff. The offensive staff is pretty good but I think the defensive staff has some questionable coaches that need to be upgraded.

 

[Cackalacky]

The decision to go for 2 may or may not have hurt us in the end but you know what I'm not going to MMQB it. I like the aggression. You can call it "chasing points" or whatever but I like a coach who errs on the side of aggression.

I agree but IMO a two point conversion takes place in the red zone. Considering our problems operating inside the 20, it is a much lower percentage for success. It's a bad call until BK gets the RZ problems squared away.

 

[wizards8507]

Has Brian Kelly ever won a big game at ND? I get that he doesn't lose that often but I feel like we fail to deliver in every single "the nation is watching" game. 2012 Oklahoma would be the closest, unless I'm forgetting something.

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

Has Brian Kelly ever won a big game at ND? I get that he doesn't lose that often but I feel like we fail to deliver in every single "the nation is watching" game.

Oklahoma/Stanford in 2012.. Maybe the LSU bowl game last year? But I get what your saying. We seem to always be knocking on the door but never kicking it down.

 

[dang227]

I thought this was his best coaching job. He has this program in good shape. The amount of injuries could have destroyed this team and they won 10 games.

 

[irish4ever]

I thought this was his best coaching job. He has this program in good shape. The amount of injuries could have destroyed this team and they won 10 games.

Quite a difference to last year's situation where injuries destroyed the 2nd half of that season. This year, more depth and better coaching up the back-ups made one helluva difference. Now, the dinged up ones need to get healthy and go win the 11th game of the season at the bowl game (Peach?, Fiesta? or wherever).

 

[Wingman Ray]

I think BK is doing a good job. I dont think the injuries were that bad. Malik was unproven. We have no idea if he would have been anywhere near Kizer's performance. Folston hurt for sure but teams lose RBs all the time. We lost our CB the second to the last game of the year. Our TE wasnt exactly dominating.

The problem is BVG. I think this guy really, really sucks. He coaches a scheme that only the really bright players can run it (sarcasm) yet clearly is so difficult to run but so easy to move the ball against (what gave up 24 drives of 75 yards or more this season?). Go figure. The guy is a crap recruiter. I cant see the benefit of having him next year. Someone says stability. I say one more year of heartbreak with this guy calling the D shot.

Everyone on this board has said the D sucked this year time and time again. It isnt the talent. ND has more talent than Mich St and would have never held OSU to 14 pts.

ND has the money. Go get a good DC and ND will be set. Fail to do so and we will all be in the same boat next year.

 

[arrowryan]

This guy won 10 games with his 3rd string QB, 3rd and 4th string RB, and numerous injuries at almost every other position. Tremendous coaching job by BK from the beginning of the year all the way to the end.

My expectations for next year are high as this offense could easily be the most complete and talented next year. If we can just get lucky one time and avoid the injury bug, I expect no less than 11 wins next year

 

[Whiskeyjack]

If we can just get lucky one time and avoid the injury bug, I expect no less than 11 wins next year

Might have to reevaluate our approach to PEDs then.

 

[wizards8507]

This guy won 10 games with his 3rd string QB, 3rd and 4th string RB, and numerous injuries at almost every other position. Tremendous coaching job by BK from the beginning of the year all the way to the end.

My expectations for next year are high as this offense could easily be the most complete and talented next year. If we can just get lucky one time and avoid the injury bug, I expect no less than 11 wins next year

The fact that Kizer and Prosise proved to be better than the guys they replaced is not a feather in BK's cap. It's a giant question as to why he didn't identify that prior to the injuries.

 

[arrowryan]

The fact that Kizer and Prosise proved to be better than the guys they replaced is not a feather in BK's cap. It's a giant question as to why he didn't identify that prior to the injuries.

I'm still taking Folston over Prosise. Yes, Prosise is good but Folston is a more natural running back and runs low to the ground. I guess it is easy to forget about that since he only played one series this year.

If you want to say that BK should have identified who is better prior to any injuries then that's fine. But then you have to say the same thing about Urban Meyer in 2014 because, if he had identified who is better in the offseason, Jones would have been starting week 1

 

[kmoose]

Please don't get it twisted. My issue isn't with anyone's support of him. My issue is with those who take issue with fans that think there is room for improvement, and for fans who think 10 wins consistently should be a goal.

That's fair enough, as long as you don't consider THIS to be "fans that think there is room for improvement"?

The problem is BVG. I think this guy really, really sucks. He coaches a scheme that only the really bright players can run it (sarcasm) yet clearly is so difficult to run but so easy to move the ball against (what gave up 24 drives of 75 yards or more this season?). Go figure. The guy is a crap recruiter. I cant see the benefit of having him next year. Someone says stability. I say one more year of heartbreak with this guy calling the D shot.

Everyone on this board has said the D sucked this year time and time again. It isnt the talent. ND has more talent than Mich St and would have never held OSU to 14 pts.

ND has the money. Go get a good DC and ND will be set. Fail to do so and we will all be in the same boat next year.

 

[Cackalacky]

This guy won 10 games with his 3rd string QB, 3rd and 4th string RB, and numerous injuries at almost every other position. Tremendous coaching job by BK from the beginning of the year all the way to the end.

My expectations for next year are high as this offense could easily be the most complete and talented next year. If we can just get lucky one time and avoid the injury bug, I expect no less than 11 wins next year

The thing is is that Sandford is the one who worked with Zaire and And Kiser while BK was dealing with Golson by the reports I have read. Also LeFleur spent a lot of time with the two as well IIRC. So how much credit does BK get for getting his back ups ready to go? He gets credit for managing them for sure but again I don't think any of us can point to any game and say who was calling plays at any time...

Denson clearly did an unbelievable job on getting CJ up to speed and developing Adams quickly. No telling how far Folston would have come.. or Bryant for that matter...

 

[kmoose]

The fact that Kizer and Prosise proved to be better than the guys they replaced is not a feather in BK's cap. It's a giant question as to why he didn't identify that prior to the injuries.

You aren't serious about this? At least, I hope you aren't that dumb. Prosise had NEVER played RB, at any level, prior to this season. Kelly had him at the position for what, maybe the Spring and Fall, at most, and he is supposed to project that out to a 1000 yard season? And who said Prosise is better than Folston? Folston might have done 1700 or 1800 yards running behind this line, and with Will Fuller keeping the safeties from cheating up.

 

[RECON Daddy]

When you think about where the program was when he took over, Coach Kelly is putting on a coaching clinic.

Most of you fickle ladies need to pull your dresses down and quit your whining. This is only our 4th 10+ win season since 2000 and it was done with almost half of the team's starters out and against a very tough schedule. This year will also mark the sixth straight year we have went to a Bowl game. That is something that has not been accomplished since the Holtz era.

Is there room for improvement? Sure - anything can be improved. I guess if you won a $200m lottery jackpot, they could take out less taxes.

As far as BVG and the defense last night, the game plan was a good one. We did not execute and Hogan played out of his mind.

I think we are very fortunate to have what we have. We should work on improving what we have in our coaching ranks through retention and not attrition.

 

[aubeirish]

The fact that Kizer and Prosise proved to be better than the guys they replaced is not a feather in BK's cap. It's a giant question as to why he didn't identify that prior to the injuries.

Kizer was kinda forced to mature into the job, and it was fun to watch. I don't think he was better suited to start than Zaire in august though. Zaire was ready to go and we would probably would have had an equally great year with him at the helm. That said, I'm really glad we know about Kizer now. The guy is the real deal.

 

[arrowryan]

The thing is is that Sandford is the one who worked with Zaire and And Kiser while BK was dealing with Golson by the reports I have read. Also LeFleur spent a lot of time with the two as well IIRC. So how much credit does BK get for getting his back ups ready to go? He gets credit for managing them for sure but again I don't think any of us can point to any game and say who was calling plays at any time...

Denson clearly did an unbelievable job on getting CJ up to speed and developing Adams quickly. No telling how far Folston would have come.. or Bryant for that matter...

I think it would be fair to credit Sanford and Denson for the play for Kizer, Prosise, and Adams. But credit needs to be given to BK at some point; whether that if for the great production from the back ups or for going out and getting some incredible assistant coaches. BK has done two things probably better than any other coach in the country: he always has a badass receiver on the field and he always finds great assistant coaches

 

[Cackalacky]

I think it would be fair to credit Sanford and Denson for the play for Kizer, Prosise, and Adams. But credit needs to be given to BK at some point; whether that if for the great production from the back ups or for going out and getting some incredible assistant coaches. BK has done two things probably better than any other coach in the country: he always has a badass receiver on the field and he always finds great assistant coaches

For sure. IMO BK seems to be more of a General Manager than a head coach. I think he needs.to find a solution for Book and Elston. BVG is not going anywhere I think.