2016 Presidential Horse Race

2016 Presidential Horse Race


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wizards8507

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At work and can't watch the debate...who bombed and who did well?
Trump is a juvenile. Bush is squish. Carson is sleepy. Fiorina and Rubio have been solid. Huckabee surprisingly good and I'm no fan of his. Chris Christie is Chris Christieing. Rand, Cruz, Walker, and Kasich are nowhere.
 

Sureal

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Trump is a juvenile. Bush is squish. Carson is sleepy. Fiorina and Rubio have been solid. Huckabee surprisingly good and I'm no fan of his. Chris Christie is Chris Christieing. Rand, Cruz, Walker, and Kasich are nowhere.

Doesn't sound too promising... Republican party is a hot mess

Really wanted Rand Paul to do some things in this election but it ain't going to happen.
 

Corry

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Doesn't sound too promising... Republican party is a hot mess

Really wanted Rand Paul to do some things in this election but it ain't going to happen.

He's killing it right now as the topic turns to marajuna IMO.
 

GATTACA!

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They should just pick Rubio/Fiorina or Fiorina/Rubio and call it a day.
 

Rhode Irish

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Putting Trump aside, because he isn't really running for President:

Even though I may disagree with them on most issues, when I listen to Ben Carson, Carly Fiorina and John Kasich (and maybe even Rand Paul), at least there is some evidence that the light is on and somebody is home. Who decided that Scott Walker, Ted Cruz and Mike Huckabee needed access to a microphone? These are profoundly dumb human beings, regardless of political bent. If William F. Buckley watched tonight, he was spinning in his grave. How is there a constituency out there for these guys?
 

GoIrish41

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Fiorina was locked in and did well for herself. Kasich still seems like the most level headed republican on stage. When the more serious candidates talked about sustanative issues, Trump didn't have anything to say. Was unimpressed with all answers to the question about what the country would look like after their presidency. Bush defending his brother was loyal but won't play well as the election wears on.
 

tussin

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Trump can't give an actual answer to any question -- everything is "I'm smart I'll figure it out."

Thought Fiorina and Bush showed the best. Christie showed OK. I like Kasich but thought he was nowhere tonight.

Rand is a clown and shouldn't be on the stage -- I laughed out loud when Trump cut him down. I'm curious as to why Rhode has little respect for Walker. He's a little vanilla, but I know a few guys that read his book and came away impressed.
 

tussin

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Fiorina was locked in and did well for herself. Kasich still seems like the most level headed republican on stage. When the more serious candidates talked about sustanative issues, Trump didn't have anything to say. Was unimpressed with all answers to the question about what the country would look like after their presidency. Bush defending his brother was loyal but won't play well as the election wears on.

That was a fluff question to end it. Besides, what Republican answer would you possibly be "impressed" with?
 

phgreek

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Wasn't a fan of the "pick a fight with a question" then go ADD format, and cut people off who were actually trying to finish a thought. It made for some interesting discussion, but as a format its a loser. It makes it harder for the more thoughtful folks to get in and differentiate themselves...

I am glad Fiorina made it on stage...she actually tried to do what the hell these things are supposed to accomplish...talk freaking substance...real numbers, and decision pooints driving her point of view. If the goal is to send forth the electable its still Bush or Kasich...leaning Kasich in that he brings Ohio, he seems to be a pretty balanced and effective Governor, he isn't bitter and angry, and he hasn't said or done anything akin to liberal kryptonite that can be used for people to be all victimy.

HAHA...the air is leaving the Donald baloon. Now if we get a Hillary indictment, I won't ask for anything from Santa.

Van Jones said something I thought was Hilarious...his analysis was that it seems W is no longer a toxic subject with Republicans...and that is "weird". Uhm, how do I say this ...its because your boy's policies...yea the varnish has come off, and people are realizing that invading Iraq was not good...however generally ignoring it produced an unprecedented tire fire. How weird is that when people re-calibrate when sucking reaches new levels?
 

IrishMoore1

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I can't believe I'm saying this, but Megyn Kelly at Fox News asked better, hard hitting questions than CNN.

The entire CNN debate consisted of questions to just bait the candidates into bickering and attacking each other. "What do you think of what this candidate said" or "who do you think of so-and-so's plan."

Kasich even pointed this out - absolutely little to no focus on the actual issues
 

IrishinSyria

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I can't believe I'm saying this, but Megyn Kelly at Fox News asked better, hard hitting questions than CNN.

The entire CNN debate consisted of questions to just bait the candidates into bickering and attacking each other. "What do you think of what this candidate said" or "who do you think of so-and-so's plan."

Kasich even pointed this out - absolutely little to no focus on the actual issues

Once you get past 3, maybe 4, candidates there's no time for substance anyway.
 

TDHeysus

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I'm not trying to make a case for anyone, seriously I'm not. but i am just perplexed by some of the opinions in this thread. everyone seems to dismiss trump despite the fact he is leading in EVERY poll.

and ppl liking fiorina when she is absolutely un-electable, just ask anyone who lived in new hampshire in the early 2000's, or anyone that worked for HP during that time. She gutted the company, and was fired with EXTREME disdain (it was by all accounts, a brutal firing)....she laid off upwards of 30,000ppl and then took a $20million severance package - and addition to that, stock options worth up to another $20million

please don't mistake that I am trying to make a case for trump, because certainly i'm not. but to so matter-of-factly dismiss him is odd. might I remind you that they tried to do Bill Clinton the same way. no matter how bad they (the media) tried to make him look, he rose in the polls and, well, you know the rest.
 
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connor_in

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BleedBlueGold

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I just started watching last night's debate. I will say, Trump is good at entertaining. I don't support his candidacy, but I think he's hilarious.
 

Polish Leppy 22

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1) Trump isn't my favorite, but he's entertaining.

2) Got a long way to go. This was debate 2 of 9.

3) Carly brought the hammer last night. Impressed.

4) Some might paint Carson as sleepy or lacking energy. I'd say he was the most calm and composed.

5) Really liked Christie telling Trump voters don't care about his career, moreso theirs.

6) Rubio and Kasich performed well, but both have baggage. Rubio has questions to answer on immigration and Kasich with ACA/ medicaid expansion in OH.
 

GoIrish41

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That was a fluff question to end it. Besides, what Republican answer would you possibly be "impressed" with?

It is a fluff question in the same way as "Why do you want to be President?" is a fluff question. That simple question cost Ted Kennedy his 1980 presidential aspirations. Ted Kennedy: The Day the Presidency Was Lost - ABC News

I would have been impressed with anyone who spoke about helping the working poor, or bridging the racial divide, or seeking a way to bring medical costs down in this country while prividing wider (even universal) healthcare. I'd have been impressed with an embrace of settled climate science and a path forward to begin combatting it before we are faced with catastrophe. I'd have been impressed with a strategy that would end our dependence on foreign oil so that we can finally let the Middle East continue their ancient conflicts without U.S. intervention and loss of life. I would have liked to hear how they would approach the income disparity in this country and the shrinking of the middle class while the wealthiest among us continue to rake in money at the expense of the American worker. I'd have like to hear more than just a passing talking point about how "I will create jobs" and an explanation about how that is going to happen when corporations keep shipping the best paying jobs overseas to the lowest bidder. I would have liked to hear something about closing corporate loopholes that allow them to avoid paying their fair share of taxes. I would be impressed with a mention of closing "for profit" prisons and the urgency to fill them with non-violent offenders due to the war on drugs.

There are literally a hundred things that I would have been more impressed with than, "Build up the military so nobody will mess with the U.S.A., flex our muscle, and grab the mantle of leadership in the world (because the world is better when we are calling the shots)." Forget that that is one of the primary contributors to many of the problems that we face today beyond out borders. What I heard was the same old bullshit policies I've been hearing from republicans for the past three or four decades, repeated shamelessly in the face of a lifetime of evidence that they do not work. I might have been impressed by almost anything else they could have said to answer the question, "What would the country look like after your presidency?".

And before my conservative friends jump on me for expecting them to talk about "Democrat" issues at a Republican debate, let me point out that their lack of focus on these issues is why none of these candidates will be the president. They are simply not in touch with what is important to typical citizens of this country. Until these issue also become things that republicans care about, they will continue to lose national elections.
 
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BleedBlueGold

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It is a fluff question in the same way as "Why do you want to be President?" is a fluff question. That simple question cost Ted Kennedy his 1980 presidential aspirations. Ted Kennedy: The Day the Presidency Was Lost - ABC News

I would have been impressed with anyone who spoke about helping the working poor, or bridging the racial divide, or seeking a way to bring medical costs down in this country while prividing wider (even universal) healthcare. I'd have been impressed with an embrace of settled climate science and a path forward to begin combatting it before we are faces with catastrophe. I'd have been impressed with a strategy that would end our dependence on foreign oil so that we can finally let the Middle East continue their ancient conflicts without U.S. intervention and loss of life. I would have liked to hear how they would approach the income disparity in this country and the shrinking of the middle class while the wealthiest among us continue to rake in money at the expense of the American worker. I'd have like to hear more than just a passing talking point about how "I will create jobs" and an explanation about how that is going to happen when corporations keep shipping the best paying jobs overseas to the lowest bidder. I would have liked to hear something about closing corporate loopholes that allow them to avoid paying their fair share of taxes. I would be impressed with a mention of closing "for profit" prisons and the urgency to fill them with non-violent offenders due to the war on drugs.

There are literally a hundred things that I would have been more impressed with than, "Build up the military so nobody will mess with the U.S.A., flex our muscle, and grab the mantle of leadership in the world (because the world is better when we are calling the shots). Forget that that is one of the primary contributors to many of the problems that we face today beyond out borders. What I heard was the same old bullshit policies I've been hearing from republicans for the past three or four decades, repeated shamelessly in the face of a lifetime of evidence that they do not work. I might have been impressed by almost anything else they could have said to answer the question, "What would the country look like after your presidency?".

And before my conservative friends jump on me for expecting them to talk about "Democrat" issues at a Republican debate, let me point out that their lack of focus on these issues is why none of these candidates will be the president. They are simply not in touch with what is important to typical citizens of this country. Until these issue also become things that republicans care about, they will continue to lose national elections.

I second this.

Bernie approves your message (as mentioned in a CNN interview today).
 

Wild Bill

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Putting Trump aside, because he isn't really running for President:

Even though I may disagree with them on most issues, when I listen to Ben Carson, Carly Fiorina and John Kasich (and maybe even Rand Paul), at least there is some evidence that the light is on and somebody is home. Who decided that Scott Walker, Ted Cruz and Mike Huckabee needed access to a microphone? These are profoundly dumb human beings, regardless of political bent. If William F. Buckley watched tonight, he was spinning in his grave. How is there a constituency out there for these guys?

Cruz graduated valedictorian of his high school class, cum laude from Princeton, magna cum laude from Harvard Law School and then clerked for Rehnquist. Yeah, seems like a real moron.
 

EddytoNow

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She killing it tonight. She scored tons of points with that answer and her last one when she got choked up about planned parenthood. Good shit.

She was composed for the most part, but there are still some concerns.

1. Will a thorough vetting of her departure from HP reveal aspects of her leadership that could be troubling? The media hasn't reported much on this because she hasn't been a serious candidate. If she starts to rise up the polls she can expect to have every decision she's ever made questioned just like the media has done to Hillary Clinton.

2. Will she have the same problem identifying with the working man/woman that Mitt Romney had based upon the number of people who lost their job during her reign at HP? She was quick to lay people off and put thousands out of work, losing investors lots of money in the process.

3. Is she trying too hard to be more hawkish than all the male candidates? She wants to cozy up to Netanyahu. She suggested arming just about every country in the middle east. She seems determined to send American troops into the regional war between Sunni and Shiite. She wants to arm the Kurds. Has she considered Turkey's response to that? She seems intent on sending troops into Syria. Does she really want to raise tensions with Russia and possibly start World War III?

4. When asked about Trump's comment about her appearance, her facial expression looked as if she was about to break down and cry. She quickly gathered herself together and responded to the question. However, she will face many more questions much harder than that one. Can she hold up to the media battering? If nominated she will be scrutinized by the media and everything comes out. She won't be treated any better than Hillary Clinton.
 

EddytoNow

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It is a fluff question in the same way as "Why do you want to be President?" is a fluff question. That simple question cost Ted Kennedy his 1980 presidential aspirations. Ted Kennedy: The Day the Presidency Was Lost - ABC News

I would have been impressed with anyone who spoke about helping the working poor, or bridging the racial divide, or seeking a way to bring medical costs down in this country while prividing wider (even universal) healthcare. I'd have been impressed with an embrace of settled climate science and a path forward to begin combatting it before we are faced with catastrophe. I'd have been impressed with a strategy that would end our dependence on foreign oil so that we can finally let the Middle East continue their ancient conflicts without U.S. intervention and loss of life. I would have liked to hear how they would approach the income disparity in this country and the shrinking of the middle class while the wealthiest among us continue to rake in money at the expense of the American worker. I'd have like to hear more than just a passing talking point about how "I will create jobs" and an explanation about how that is going to happen when corporations keep shipping the best paying jobs overseas to the lowest bidder. I would have liked to hear something about closing corporate loopholes that allow them to avoid paying their fair share of taxes. I would be impressed with a mention of closing "for profit" prisons and the urgency to fill them with non-violent offenders due to the war on drugs.

There are literally a hundred things that I would have been more impressed with than, "Build up the military so nobody will mess with the U.S.A., flex our muscle, and grab the mantle of leadership in the world (because the world is better when we are calling the shots)." Forget that that is one of the primary contributors to many of the problems that we face today beyond out borders. What I heard was the same old bullshit policies I've been hearing from republicans for the past three or four decades, repeated shamelessly in the face of a lifetime of evidence that they do not work. I might have been impressed by almost anything else they could have said to answer the question, "What would the country look like after your presidency?".

And before my conservative friends jump on me for expecting them to talk about "Democrat" issues at a Republican debate, let me point out that their lack of focus on these issues is why none of these candidates will be the president. They are simply not in touch with what is important to typical citizens of this country. Until these issue also become things that republicans care about, they will continue to lose national elections.

I agree totally with the bolded part, the standard Republican answer to foreign relations is to send somebody else's son or daughter over and blast the **** out of those foreigners. No thought appears to be given to the problems that policy has created for us over the last few decades. Nor do the Republicans comment on the regional politics involved in any action we want to take unilaterally. We destroyed what balance there was in the Middle East when we toppled Saddam Hussein and Iraq. Should we repeat that mistake?
 

tussin

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And before my conservative friends jump on me for expecting them to talk about "Democrat" issues at a Republican debate, let me point out that their lack of focus on these issues is why none of these candidates will be the president. They are simply not in touch with what is important to typical citizens of this country. Until these issue also become things that republicans care about, they will continue to lose national elections.

It's a primary election --- they need to appeal to the right wing conservative base. The discussion will shift much more towards supporting the middle class and true job creation as we near the general election.

As to your specific points, they had 30 seconds to give their answer. You can't nail down on singular issues in that format -- you need to keep it high level and focus on likability.

Generally speaking, I agree with what you are saying on what the pertinent issues truly are. Healthcare is an issue, so is helping the poor, climate change, job creation, and foreign policy. What is so frustrating to me is that, while the Dem's have unquestionably been more successful in campaigning to these points, the American public can't seem to understand that left policies are a band-aid and not a cure. Great campaign speeches are meaningless if the policies aren't working.
 

NDohio

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I would love to see a smaller debate between Kasich, Carson, Paul, Bush, and Fiorina.

I am so tired of the Trump show and I hope after last night he begins to fall in the polls. His entire shtick is to stand on the corner and yell into a bullhorn what all the problems are. Solutions? He has none that are viable.
 

BleedBlueGold

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Why aren't candidates held to a higher standard when telling the truth? After every debate, I read the Fact Checks. So many of them straight up lie about stuff. Why is that tolerated? Surely it's not because they're unprepared for what questions they'll be asked and are just randomly pulling figures/numbers out of their asses. It's mind boggling to me that no one holds them accountable.
 

yankeehater

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I'm not trying to make a case for anyone, seriously I'm not. but i am just perplexed by some of the opinions in this thread. everyone seems to dismiss trump despite the fact he is leading in EVERY poll.

and ppl liking fiorina when she is absolutely un-electable, just ask anyone who lived in new hampshire in the early 2000's, or anyone that worked for HP during that time. She gutted the company, and was fired with EXTREME disdain (it was by all accounts, a brutal firing)....she laid off upwards of 30,000ppl and then took a $20million severance package - and addition to that, stock options worth up to another $20million

please don't mistake that I am trying to make a case for trump, because certainly i'm not. but to so matter-of-factly dismiss him is odd. might I remind you that they tried to do Bill Clinton the same way. no matter how bad they (the media) tried to make him look, he rose in the polls and, well, you know the rest.

The company just announced another 30,000 in layoffs.....maybe there are more problems than Carly at HP.
 

kmoose

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I would love to see a smaller debate between Kasich, Carson, Paul, Bush, and Fiorina.

I am so tired of the Trump show and I hope after last night he begins to fall in the polls. His entire shtick is to stand on the corner and yell into a bullhorn what all the problems are. Solutions? He has none that are viable.

What's not viable about his idea to impose tariffs on companies who move their manufacturing jobs overseas?
 
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