Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

[PANDFAN]

I get tired of hearing how BK "only" led us to one championship game in 5 years. If we remember, Golson was kicked out after our championship run which hurt us drastically in 2013.

Then we were going to make a run in 2014 and we lost the frozen five. Regardless of that, we still had a strong run going up through the FSU game and then all of the injuries started adding up on top of the frozen five and we just didn't have the personnel or experience to continue the run.

Now we come to 2015 and a lot of hype surrounding ND football and, once again, disaster strikes and we lose 5 starters by our second game...yet we are still undefeated.

None of this has to do with coaching (sure people can speculate that players aren't being developed but that is purely speculation with no facts to back it up). We have student athletes here that are held accountable. BK cannot follow all of them around and make sure they stay eligible and do their own work. We also cannot put bubble wrap on our players so they don't get injured. It is a part of the game.

In regards to the other complaints like playing Schmidt over Morgan...none of us know the reason. Rees played over Golson and spelled Golson during our championship run because Golson struggled to learn the offense and there were times in 2012 Golson could not read the defense to make the proper audibles. I have never heard BK say Schmidt is playing because he is better than Morgan...only that he is the one that gets the defense into the right position. If that is required of his role and Morgan cannot do that, then Morgan does not replace him, period. Joe is the QB of the defense and his replacement needs to be able to take over the reins and run the defense.

I, like many others posting in this thread, am still optimistic about our chances. Good teams find a way to win. They also catch some breaks. Hopefully the football gods will smile on us the rest of the season and we will be injury free. But we are undefeated and until we have knocked ourselves out of the playoff picture, I will have hope.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Why isn't Nyles Morgan playing?

"Joe Schmidt's better," BK deadpans.</p>— Nick Ironside (@nironside247) <a href="https://twitter.com/nironside247/status/643826575323041793">September 15, 2015</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">simple answer for why Nyles Morgan not getting onto the field, Kelly: "Joe Schmidt is better." says he loves Nyles but can't take Joe off</p>— Angelo Di Carlo (@angdicarlowndu) <a href="https://twitter.com/angdicarlowndu/status/643826808522211328">September 15, 2015</a></blockquote>
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[Dizzyphil]

vs. Texas, the defense held rushing to 60 yards and passing to 103.
vs. Virginia, the defense held rushing to 127 yards but they had passing of 289
There was one pass of 19 yards that was tipped – would have thrown anyone off.
Three trips to the red-zone in the first quarter resulted in 12 points.
ND was held scoreless in the second quarter and only scored in the last 20ish seconds of the 4th quarter.
Why is there so much emphasis that the defensive scheme or the lack thereof is the majority of the issue?

This doesn't tell the whole story. QB completed 68.5% of his passes, thats an very high number. You can then also look at comparisons. UCLA held them to 98 and 238. John's only completed 60% of his passes and his QBR was 60 versus 71. You could also just watch the game and look at specific plays and scenarios. Trust me there are quite a few head scratchers.

I understand that there are plenty of more variables. But if anything, the offense should have ended this game with a minimum of 45 points. Which would have taken some of the sting out of the defensive flaws. I am not trying to pick sides or a fight. I just do not see the flaws (all of them) as others may see. I may be missing something. I may need to be led differently - I don't know. Just seems the entire system was flat last Saturday after the first 10 minutes of the game.

 

[Irish#1]

I agree with this. We still have a lot to fight for this year and a coach of BVG's experience level very well could turn this around fairly dramatically. So, I'm going to hold out until then. However, I think those that question our current coaching staff have valid reasons to do so.

We still have EVERYTHING to fight for this year.

can someone light a candle in the grotto for my sanity

thx!

Couldn't have said it better. lol

 

[Ndaccountant]

I'm not even at that point right now. I'm saying that we have enough talent to win 10+ games every year. We have enough of D to field a top 25-30 group, every year. Heck we still can, lets see where we go from here.

I agree with that. To get there, it is scheme and playcalling.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Just out of curiosity:

For those against this thread, what happens if GT rolls ND this weekend?

For those defending this thread, what happens if ND rolls GT this weekend?

Does anyone's opinions change? Part of me thinks this game is a huge pendulum game and will set the tone for the rest of the season.

 

[IrishLax]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Most players on NFL rosters by college: 1. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/LSU?src=hash">#LSU</a>-40 2. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Miami?src=hash">#Miami</a>-37. 3. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/USC?src=hash">#USC</a>-35. 4 <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Bama?src=hash">#Bama</a> & <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/UGA?src=hash">#UGA</a>-34; 6. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/UF?src=hash">#UF</a> & <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/FSU?src=hash">#FSU</a>-31; 8. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/OU?src=hash">#OU</a>-30. 9. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ND?src=hash">#ND</a> 29.</p>— Bruce Feldman (@BruceFeldmanCFB) <a href="https://twitter.com/BruceFeldmanCFB/status/644229820688150528">September 16, 2015</a></blockquote>
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This is the biggest indictment of ND football (although even a bigger indictment of Miami... wow). We have had tons of talent over the last decade. We have 3 BCS bowl trips (including the championship game in 2012) and a handful of top 25 finishes. We have 5 total less players than Bama/Georgia, two teams regularly at the top of college football. We have 2 less players than UF/FSU... teams that recently won championships.

Now, a large part of the shortcomings is injuries and just crazy luck. I mean truly crazy bad luck. But goddamn... Notre Dame recruits enough talent to be a yearly top 10 team. You have to question what's holding the team back... schedule? coaching? other items?

 

[gkIrish]

Just out of curiosity:

For those against this thread, what happens if GT rolls ND this weekend?

For those defending this thread, what happens if ND rolls GT this weekend?
Does anyone's opinions change? Part of me thinks this game is a huge pendulum game and will set the tone for the rest of the season.

It obviously wouldn't hurt BK's image and would indicate that perhaps the Virginia game was a fluke.

But I'm not passing final judgment on the season until the season is in fact over.

 

[kmoose]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Most players on NFL rosters by college: 1. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/LSU?src=hash">#LSU</a>-40 2. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Miami?src=hash">#Miami</a>-37. 3. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/USC?src=hash">#USC</a>-35. 4 <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Bama?src=hash">#Bama</a> & <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/UGA?src=hash">#UGA</a>-34; 6. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/UF?src=hash">#UF</a> & <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/FSU?src=hash">#FSU</a>-31; 8. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/OU?src=hash">#OU</a>-30. 9. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ND?src=hash">#ND</a> 29.</p>— Bruce Feldman (@BruceFeldmanCFB) <a href="https://twitter.com/BruceFeldmanCFB/status/644229820688150528">September 16, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This is the biggest indictment of ND football (although even a bigger indictment of Miami... wow). We have had tons of talent over the last decade. We have 3 BCS bowl trips (including the championship game in 2012) and a handful of top 25 finishes. We have 5 total less players than Bama/Georgia, two teams regularly at the top of college football. We have 2 less players than UF/FSU... teams that recently won championships.

Now, a large part of the shortcomings is injuries and just crazy luck. I mean truly crazy bad luck. But goddamn... Notre Dame recruits enough talent to be a yearly top 10 team. You have to question what's holding the team back... schedule? coaching? other items?

The last time I checked...... we ARE a Top 10 team?

 

[gkIrish]

By the way, I'm really glad this thread has actually shifted towards some actual debate (ignoring wooly v. koon getting their licks in for IE's Best Rivalry) rather than people just dismissing everything. Props to y'all.

 

[RDU Irish]

So the 2012 team defense was top 10 in the country with a fairly vanilla defensive scheme. Not big on gimmicks, just man up and don't make any huge mistakes. It took Alabama to expose the lack of a second gear. Against inferior competition, KISS and solid fundamentals by top notch athletes is enough to be a Top 10 defense.

Across the board we have better athletes now but half of them can't play b/c they need four seasons in the system to have a clue how it works. If this system is so damn good we should have more than one turnover in two games.

 

[tussin]

I'd like to hear some of the scheme heads opine about BVG's defense. I honestly can't tell you if it's good or bad.

 

[Luckylucci]

It obviously wouldn't hurt BK's image and would indicate that perhaps the Virginia game was a fluke.

But I'm not passing final judgment on the season until the season is in fact over.

Agreed, I look at each game as a data point. UVA was 1, GT is another, and at the end of the season you add all the data points together to make a decision.

With that said, I'd feel much better about the rest of the season if the defense can bounce back. I need some confidence that this group can play at a consistently high level.

 

[wizards8507]

So the 2012 team defense was top 10 in the country with a fairly vanilla defensive scheme. Not big on gimmicks, just man up and don't make any huge mistakes. It took Alabama to expose the lack of a second gear. Against inferior competition, KISS and solid fundamentals by top notch athletes is enough to be a Top 10 defense.

Across the board we have better athletes now but half of them can't play b/c they need four seasons in the system to have a clue how it works. If this system is so damn good we should have more than one turnover in two games.

Word. There's no point in a high-risk system if you're not hitting home runs every once in awhile. That's what scares me about Tech. Their offense demands a disciplined defensive approach, not an elaborate scheme.

 

[IrishLax]

The last time I checked...... we ARE a Top 10 team?

Over the last decade, we have finished in the top 10 once. Our consistent performance is nowhere close to what our expected performance would/should be.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Most players on NFL rosters by college: 1. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/LSU?src=hash">#LSU</a>-40 2. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Miami?src=hash">#Miami</a>-37. 3. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/USC?src=hash">#USC</a>-35. 4 <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Bama?src=hash">#Bama</a> & <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/UGA?src=hash">#UGA</a>-34; 6. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/UF?src=hash">#UF</a> & <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/FSU?src=hash">#FSU</a>-31; 8. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/OU?src=hash">#OU</a>-30. 9. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ND?src=hash">#ND</a> 29.</p>— Bruce Feldman (@BruceFeldmanCFB) <a href="https://twitter.com/BruceFeldmanCFB/status/644229820688150528">September 16, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This is the biggest indictment of ND football (although even a bigger indictment of Miami... wow). We have had tons of talent over the last decade. We have 3 BCS bowl trips (including the championship game in 2012) and a handful of top 25 finishes. We have 5 total less players than Bama/Georgia, two teams regularly at the top of college football. We have 2 less players than UF/FSU... teams that recently won championships.

Now, a large part of the shortcomings is injuries and just crazy luck. I mean truly crazy bad luck. But goddamn... Notre Dame recruits enough talent to be a yearly top 10 team. You have to question what's holding the team back... schedule? coaching? other items?

The last time I checked...... we ARE a Top 10 team?

Finishing the year in the Top 10 is what's relevant, kmoose. It's highly unlikely to happen this year (I know I'm being pessimistic, sorry). After injuries to key players and seeing how this team played against UVA, I just feel like they'll lose at least 3 games this year which will drop them out of the Top 10. It's happened so infrequently to ND that it was even a story this preseason: ND, when ranked in the preseason usually finishes unranked. When unranked in the preseason, tends to end up ranked. It's a weird phenomenon.

People want to finish in the Top 10 yearly. That's a great tweet LAX posted showing ND has the talent (looking at you Koon), but something is holding them back. That's what this thread has been about.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

So the 2012 team defense was top 10 in the country with a fairly vanilla defensive scheme. Not big on gimmicks, just man up and don't make any huge mistakes. It took Alabama to expose the lack of a second gear. Against inferior competition, KISS and solid fundamentals by top notch athletes is enough to be a Top 10 defense.

Across the board we have better athletes now but half of them can't play b/c they need four seasons in the system to have a clue how it works. If this system is so damn good we should have more than one turnover in two games.

Good post.

I say it every year. KISS schemes with top athletes is ND's best recipe. This is not the NFL or a Football Factory. These kids have other requirements outside of football that take up their time.

 

[RDU Irish]

Good post.

I say it every year. KISS schemes with top athletes is ND's best recipe. This is not the NFL or a Football Factory. These kids have other requirements outside of football that take up their time.

It is the opposite of the "ND kids are so smart" argument for them being able to absorb complex systems. ND kids have class to tend to so they can't obsess about football 24/7 like football factories.

WTF are you doing getting cute when you have a decided athletic advantage? Line up and punch the smaller guy in the mouth!

 

[T Town Tommy]

Reading the last few pages of this thread and all I could think of was inserting Mark Richt for BK and I don't know if I could tell a difference in the critique.

I don't know the issues with the Irish but I think Lax is pretty close with what he is saying. I do know this... no coach should endure what BK has had to endure the last few seasons. It's like he starts with a full deck only to have his ace cards pulled away for whatever reason. Hard to win and hard to build a program when all it seems like you are doing is kicking the bricks.

 

[RDU Irish]

Reading the last few pages of this thread and all I could think of was inserting Mark Richt for BK and I don't know if I could tell a difference in the critique.

I don't know the issues with the Irish but I think Lax is pretty close with what he is saying. I do know this... no coach should endure what BK has had to endure the last few seasons. It's like he starts with a full deck only to have his ace cards pulled away for whatever reason. Hard to win and hard to build a program when all it seems like you are doing is kicking the bricks.

Tommy - F-U for making such a perfect point. So stinking true.

 

[Irish Insanity]

So the 2012 team defense was top 10 in the country with a fairly vanilla defensive scheme. Not big on gimmicks, just man up and don't make any huge mistakes. It took Alabama to expose the lack of a second gear. Against inferior competition, KISS and solid fundamentals by top notch athletes is enough to be a Top 10 defense.

Across the board we have better athletes now but half of them can't play b/c they need four seasons in the system to have a clue how it works. If this system is so damn good we should have more than one turnover in two games.

It is the opposite of the "ND kids are so smart" argument for them being able to absorb complex systems. ND kids have class to tend to so they can't obsess about football 24/7 like football factories.

WTF are you doing getting cute when you have a decided athletic advantage? Line up and punch the smaller guy in the mouth!

I should just go back and quote all of your recent posts in here, but that would be annoying.
But everything you said is spot on.

 

[RDU Irish]

I should just go back and quote all of your recent posts in here, but that would be annoying.
But everything you said is spot on.

So we can agree that Kelly is one good DC hire away from being all world?

 

[IrishLion]

So we can agree that Kelly is one good DC hire away from being all world?

And actual continuity at the QB position. Having a starter string together two complete seasons in a row would do wonders for this football team.

 

[Wild Bill]

Good post.

I say it every year. KISS schemes with top athletes is ND's best recipe. This is not the NFL or a Football Factory. These kids have other requirements outside of football that take up their time.

It is the opposite of the "ND kids are so smart" argument for them being able to absorb complex systems. ND kids have class to tend to so they can't obsess about football 24/7 like football factories.

WTF are you doing getting cute when you have a decided athletic advantage? Line up and punch the smaller guy in the mouth!

I agree they have more on their plate than most "student-athletes" but there is more than enough time to learn the system.

Some of the brightest kids I've played with simply cannot understand the subtle nuances of the game while some of the dumbest sons of bitches I've played with could break down a film within a matter of moments and commit every assignment to memory within days.

What stops them from learning is probably case by case.

The problem is coaches have limited time to spend with these players. So if someone simply can't "get it", the coaches, rather than spending time diagnosing/solving the issue, simply move on to a player that does "get it". Even if that means playing a player with less physical talent.

I'm not suggesting that the coaches are the problem here. It's just that their time is limited and sometimes they just have to move on.

 

[Irish Insanity]

So we can agree that Kelly is one good DC hire away from being all world?

As long as he allows his coordinators to do just that.

 

[GoIrish41]

Nobody is going to be calling for BK's or BVG's head come Saturday night after we shut down Ga. Tech's offense and put up five or six touchdowns on them. We're two games into the season -- both wins -- and there are actually people calling for coaches to be fired. Get a grip fellas. It's Ga. Tech week.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Nobody is going to be calling for BK's or BVG's head come Saturday night after we shut down Ga. Tech's offense and put up five or six touchdowns on them. We're two games into the season -- both wins -- and there are actually people calling for coaches to be fired. Get a grip fellas. It's Ga. Tech week.

I probably missed it, but where is anyone calling for anyone's head?

 

[Emcee77]

I probably missed it, but where is anyone calling for anyone's head?

Ummm, the OP?

 

[Irish Insanity]

Ummm, the OP?

No

 

[Luckylucci]

FWIW, GK just said a few posts ago that this isn't something he thinks should happen now. Nor do I and I don't think we've seen a lot of people saying it should. Its mostly discussion about what is wrong, if anything, and can it be fixed.

 

[Dizzyphil]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Most players on NFL rosters by college: 1. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/LSU?src=hash">#LSU</a>-40 2. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Miami?src=hash">#Miami</a>-37. 3. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/USC?src=hash">#USC</a>-35. 4 <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Bama?src=hash">#Bama</a> & <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/UGA?src=hash">#UGA</a>-34; 6. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/UF?src=hash">#UF</a> & <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/FSU?src=hash">#FSU</a>-31; 8. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/OU?src=hash">#OU</a>-30. 9. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ND?src=hash">#ND</a> 29.</p>— Bruce Feldman (@BruceFeldmanCFB) <a href="https://twitter.com/BruceFeldmanCFB/status/644229820688150528">September 16, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This is the biggest indictment of ND football (although even a bigger indictment of Miami... wow). We have had tons of talent over the last decade. We have 3 BCS bowl trips (including the championship game in 2012) and a handful of top 25 finishes. We have 5 total less players than Bama/Georgia, two teams regularly at the top of college football. We have 2 less players than UF/FSU... teams that recently won championships.

Now, a large part of the shortcomings is injuries and just crazy luck. I mean truly crazy bad luck. But goddamn... Notre Dame recruits enough talent to be a yearly top 10 team. You have to question what's holding the team back... schedule? coaching? other items?

Could be 30 if Jeff Samardzija would have opted to play 'Da Foosball'