Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

[Grahambo]

Not sure why 'Bama fans or fans of some other schools get upset about SOS. You win titles. End of story.

 

[Circa]

Kelly had luck with backups at Cinncy didn't he? How about time for that to finally translate to ND?

Tommy...Tommy...Tommy..

Kizer Is our starting QB. Time to pinch our own ass and man up. Play some big boy ball. Tech isn't a joke.

 

[Circa]

Fucking embarrassing reading this thread. I mean wow...

I seriously thought I was at another site for a minute.

No kiddin, right? We are 2-0 and I'm praying the team doesn't like the OP. GimmeGimmegimme. Facebook should be the venue for this nonsense

 

[gkIrish]

No kiddin, right? We are 2-0 and I'm praying the team doesn't like the OP. GimmeGimmegimme. Facebook should be the venue for this nonsense

Why do the points raised in this thread not apply because we are 2-0?

Would they be valid if we were 1-1?

I don't see how our record is relevant to any of the points I raised in the OP or that others have brought up since then. No one is complaining we lost, we are complaining about the team's foundation, or lack thereof, to be a championship quality football team (especially on defense, offensive playcalling, and red zone execution). The Virginia game just confirmed to myself, and others, that we aren't where we want to be and BK hasn't made the adjustments we have asked of him for 2+ years.

What is so crazy about those thoughts that they belong on Facebook?

 

[kmoose]

Why do the points raised in this thread not apply because we are 2-0?

Would they be valid if we were 1-1?

I don't see how our record is relevant to any of the points I raised in the OP or that others have brought up since then. No one is complaining we lost, we are complaining about the team's foundation, or lack thereof, to be a championship quality football team (especially on defense, offensive playcalling, and red zone execution). The Virginia game just confirmed to myself, and others, that we aren't where we want to be and BK hasn't made the adjustments we have asked of him for 2+ years.

What is so crazy about those thoughts that they belong on Facebook?

What about the team's come from behind victory, with a back up QB, on the road, indicates to you(and others) that the foundation is not there to build a championship quality football team?

 

[gkIrish]

What about the team's come from behind victory essentially a hail mary, with a back up QB, on the road against a bad team, indicates to you(and others) that the foundation is not there to build a championship quality football teams beat the hell out of teams like Virginia and don't lose to Northwestern at home or Navy etc.

If Will Fuller drops that ball and we lose, how does your analysis change?

I just don't see how a 40 yard pass being caught or dropped changes how I feel about the team going forward.

 

[wizards8507]

What about the team's come from behind victory, with a back up QB, on the road, indicates to you(and others) that the foundation is not there to build a championship quality football team?

You don't get credit for "come from behind" if the talent imbalance would have had you winning by 20.

 

[gkIrish]

What about the team's come from behind victory, with a back up QB, on the road, indicates to you(and others) that the foundation is not there to build a championship quality football team?

Bullshit aside, do you think the team we fielded against Virginia could win a championship? Keep in mind this is the best team BK has had with his own players.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Brian Kelly Revisited

Bullshit aside, do you think the team we fielded against Virginia could win a championship? Keep in mind this is the best team BK has had with his own players.

Games aren't played on paper, but I'd argue this is the best team BK has ever had. Anywhere.

 

[tussin]

Bullshit aside, do you think the team we fielded against Virginia could win a championship? Keep in mind this is the best team BK has had with his own players.

Yeah I do, because I saw them absolutely demoralize Texas in Week 1.

Great teams have off nights. You see it with every elite program every year. We just don't talk about it because no one wants to talk about an OSU / Minnesota game at length.

With no MZ injury and better corner play, I think that team was a playoff caliber team. The corners were the only thing from the UVA game that truly bothered me. KVR and Luke are supposed to lead one of the better units in the country --- start playing like it.

 

[GATTACA!]

You don't get credit for "come from behind" if the talent imbalance would have had you winning by 20.

Last year Ohio State lost to a team that they were favored to beat by double digits, and still went on to win the national championship.

You play to win the game. We are 2-0 right now, nothing Kelly could have done would improve that record.

I've actually stayed away from this site the past couple days because many of the posters, especially in this thread, are just looking for things to complain about.

For the amount of adversity this team has already faced we should all be thanking Kelly for getting us two wins over P5 opponents and holding the ship together. We lose to Virginia if Weis, Willingham, or Davie are the coach Saturday.

Also unrelated but equally infuriating are the posters that are acting like Kizer is the same caliber QB as TR or Hendrix. This kid is a 4 star recruit that is more than capable of leading our team. What other ND coach has had this kind of depth at the QB position? We are able to go to essentially our third stringer and still have him be better than a huge portion of the QB's at P5 schools. Plus we have such a wealth of riches we have another even more highly regarded QB behind him!

Everyone needs to step off the fucking ledge.

 

[IrishLax]

Bullshit aside, do you think the team we fielded against Virginia could win a championship? Keep in mind this is the best team BK has had with his own players.

No. 100% healthy ND with Jarron Jones, Folston, Crawford, Redfield, Schmidt, etc.? Yeah, maybe.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Brian Kelly Revisited

Last year Ohio State lost to a team that they were favored to beat by double digits, and still went on to win the national championship.

You play to win the game. We are 2-0 right now, nothing Kelly could have done would improve that record.

I've actually stayed away from this site the past couple days because many of the posters, especially in this thread, are just looking for things to complain about.

For the amount of adversity this team has already faced we should all be thanking Kelly for getting us two wins over P5 opponents and holding the ship together. We lose to Virginia if Weis, Willingham, or Davie are the coach Saturday.

Also unrelated but equally infuriating are the posters that are acting like Kizer is the same caliber QB as TR or Hendrix. This kid is a 4 star recruit that is more than capable of leading our team. What other ND coach has had this kind of depth at the QB position? We are able to go to essentially our third stringer and still have him be better than a huge portion of the QB's at P5 schools. Plus we have such a wealth of riches we have another even more highly regarded QB behind him!

Everyone needs to step off the fucking ledge.

10+ wins was the basic expectation preseason, and it still is IMO. I will gladly thank BK WHEN that happens at the conclusion of the season.

I'm not going to thank him for beating a perennial 6-6 team at the gun, despite the current circumstances.

I don't think that's being a hater or loudmouth, jumping off a ledge, or continuing to hold the team to a now impossible expectation. It's time for this program to be longer on results and shorter on excuses, and this is the perfect opportunity to start that.

 

[kmoose]

If Will Fuller drops that ball and we lose, how does your analysis change?

I just don't see how a 40 yard pass being caught or dropped changes how I feel about the team going forward.

A few things here:

1. The TD pass to Fuller was not a Hail Mary. It was a dagger in the heart of a play call, based on our coaches' observations of the corner's previous behaviors.

2. YOU brought up "foundation". No one is saying that this team is ready to win a championship right now.

3. One of the "foundations" of a championship football team is that it never quits. So yes, a come from behind win (regardless of whether or not you should be behind in the first place) IS an indication of the foundation for a championship team.

4. Another "foundation" of a championship football team is depth. So yes, winning with a back up tailback and a back up QB ARE indications of there being a foundation being laid.

 

[Irish YJ]

If we can all agree that ND's level of talent is far above that of VA's

IMO (trying to place numeric to what my gut is saying), last Saturday's poor performance was is chalked up to......

15% VA's good Gameplan (coach)
10% VA's team was up for the game and played above potential (coach)
10% VA's Players played individually up to, or above their potential (kids)
25% ND's poor gameplan (coach)
25% ND's team was down for the game and played below potential (coach)
10% ND's players played below individually up to, or below their potential (kids)
5% Bad luck (MZ's injury, bad ref calls)

35% VA / 60%ND
50% bad coaching / 10% bad ind kid perf

So, IMO, ND Coaching has the highest accountability for the poor performance (50%). Factor in player development long term in certain areas (DB and DL mostly), and the % probably increases.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Everyone needs to step off the fucking ledge.

I actually really like the discussion in this thread. 2-0 with a easy and rough win and a large percentage of starters done for the year.
What I don't like is over statements like that. Nobody is jumping off the ledge. There is nothing, or shouldn't be at least, wrong with open discussion and criticism of the coaches, players, or program.

 

[woolybug25]

If we can all agree that ND's level of talent is far above that of VA's

IMO (trying to place numeric to what my gut is saying), last Saturday's poor performance was is chalked up to......

15% VA's good Gameplan (coach)
10% VA's team was up for the game and played above potential (coach)
10% VA's Players played individually up to, or above their potential (kids)
25% ND's poor gameplan (coach)
25% ND's team was down for the game and played below potential (coach)
10% ND's players played below individually up to, or below their potential (kids)
5% Bad luck (MZ's injury, bad ref calls)

35% VA / 60%ND
50% bad coaching / 10% bad ind kid perf

So, IMO, ND Coaching has the highest accountability for the poor performance (50%). Factor in player development long term in certain areas (DB and DL mostly), and the % probably increases.

 

[Irish Insanity]

BK did say on the Herd today that no coach could stay at ND for 15 years. So, how long is his clock?

 

[aubeirish]

Your opinion and I respect that but I think Ga, Ole Miss, and Whisky as a group are better than Ga Tech, Clemson, and Navy. So top end I think Bama has it tougher. Middling and bottom end teams, I think the Irish have it tougher.

IMO, the one schedule issue I see with ND is playing USC after Navy. Not because I think Navy is that good but because of the fact that it always seems the Irish lose a player or two due to the chop blocks from Navy.

1. Personally I think that GA Tech and Clemson could beat all 3 of these teams. Navy might not be glamorous, but it is one of the worst game to play before a big game(USC this year for us).

2. The Navy game is an absolute dogfight and I remember seeing a stats, not long ago, pointing out that teams that played Navy would lose the next week at a ridiculously high percentage(no coincidence).

Listen, some teams have more talent than others, no question. But this is major college football. Every team has good players, and good coaches. It is hard as heck winning football games at that level. Anybody that has played elite sport in their life at a similar level would tell you this. Football is even worse because you have such a big unit. People who follow the SEC should be raising a lot of eyebrows toward that point after this week. A bunch of teams in your conference were in relatively close game against FCS opponents whom are not even close to the level of play of Virginia. Please don't lecture us about bye weeks. Notre Dame does not take glorified bye weeks, we only play FBS opponents.

 

[Irish YJ]

 

[Guest]

Please tell me you're not comparing Virginia, a team with several 5 star and 4 star players and who hung tough last year with the likes of UCLA, Duke and FSU, to a doormat like Coastal Carolina. Please tell me you're not doing that.

And please tell me you're not comparing Temple, 2-0 with wins over Penn St. and Cinci, to The Citadel. PLEASE tell me you're not doing that.

Because no one in their right minds would do that. So no, we definitely did NOT schedule a bye like the SEC does when we scheduled Virginia (one of the ACC 5 we play) and Temple.

Alabama fans have to argue their schedule is consistently tough to keep public opinion from ever dropping them out of one of the top spots when they win one of those cupcake games. T Town Tommy is no different; that is just in their DNA. And don't bother arguing with them, even though you are very obviously right, because they can never allow anyone to win the scheduling argument and expose how 2-3 wins every year are complete shams.

 

[palinurus]

.

 

[palinurus]

I actually really like the discussion in this thread. 2-0 with a easy and rough win and a large percentage of starters done for the year.
What I don't like is over statements like that. Nobody is jumping off the ledge. There is nothing, or shouldn't be at least, wrong with open discussion and criticism of the coaches, players, or program.

Right. This is a fan page. Discussion of hypotheticals, including rampant second guessing, is the lifeblood of a fan page. I don't understand why it upsets anyone when dedicated fans act like fans, and not like staffers on the Athletic Department's PR team.

 

[gkIrish]

No. 100% healthy ND with Jarron Jones, Folston, Crawford, Redfield, Schmidt, etc.? Yeah, maybe.

If I can only get a "Maybe" with 100% healthy players that's not very good.

A few things here:

1. The TD pass to Fuller was not a Hail Mary. It was a dagger in the heart of a play call, based on our coaches' observations of the corner's previous behaviors.

They got beat on virtually the same play (opposite side of the field) earlier in the game, so I'd say it was more shitty defense than our coaches picking a great play. Regardless, the point is that we needed that type of play to beat them. If Fuller drops the ball, Kizer doesn't throw it perfectly or the blitz gets to Kizer we lose the game. It doesn't change the analysis. Our defense YET AGAIN made a mediocre QB look like a Heisman candidate. We gave up like 40 something points to the UNC QB last year who looked like one of the worst players ever in the game I saw him play this year. It's the same story, different team, every week.

2. YOU brought up "foundation". No one is saying that this team is ready to win a championship right now.

THAT. IS. THE. PROBLEM. It's YEAR FIVE and we aren't remotely close to a championship quality team. We should be ready to win a championship. I feel like this goes without saying. If you agree we aren't championship caliber what are we even arguing about?

3. One of the "foundations" of a championship football team is that it never quits. So yes, a come from behind win (regardless of whether or not you should be behind in the first place) IS an indication of the foundation for a championship team.

OK? We don't remember the comebacks we didn't make and also ignore the times we've let a team score last second touchdowns (Michigan like 3 times)

4. Another "foundation" of a championship football team is depth. So yes, winning with a back up tailback and a back up QB ARE indications of there being a foundation being laid.

We won one game with our backup QB playing well for maybe 2 of his drives. Let's see him win a game against a good team before we annoint him and praise our depth.

Look, I don't want to predict how many losses we'll have because I don't want to root for that to happen but I will be SHOCKED if we don't lose 3 games and probably more. It's pretty much the standard outside of 2012. Again, not calling for any heads but it's perfectly reasonable to look at the job BK has done and say, in year 5, we are not where we should be and it probably won't get better.

 

[kmoose]

If I can only get a "Maybe" with 100% healthy players that's not very good.




They got beat on virtually the same play (opposite side of the field) earlier in the game, so I'd say it was more shitty defense than our coaches picking a great play. Regardless, the point is that we needed that type of play to beat them. If Fuller drops the ball, Kizer doesn't throw it perfectly or the blitz gets to Kizer we lose the game. It doesn't change the analysis. Our defense YET AGAIN made a mediocre QB look like a Heisman candidate. We gave up like 40 something points to the UNC QB last year who looked like one of the worst players ever in the game I saw him play this year. It's the same story, different team, every week.



THAT. IS. THE. PROBLEM. It's YEAR FIVE and we aren't remotely close to a championship quality team. We should be ready to win a championship. I feel like this goes without saying. If you agree we aren't championship caliber what are we even arguing about?



OK? We don't remember the comebacks we didn't make and also ignore the times we've let a team score last second touchdowns (Michigan like 3 times)



We won one game with our backup QB playing well for maybe 2 of his drives. Let's see him win a game against a good team before we annoint him and praise our depth.

Look, I don't want to predict how many losses we'll have because I don't want to root for that to happen but I will be SHOCKED if we don't lose 3 games and probably more. It's pretty much the standard outside of 2012. Again, not calling for any heads but it's perfectly reasonable to look at the job BK has done and say, in year 5, we are not where we should be and it probably won't get better.

Again, we are talking about the foundation for success, not the readiness for success THIS year. Your want to talk about THIS team, at THIS time, and then cherry pick the worst moments from the last 5 years? I remember the times that ND let teams like Michigan march right down the field and score. ND entered the 4th Q this week up by 12 points. They gave up 2 4th Q touchdowns, the go ahead one coming with 1:54 left. Past ND teams would have quit. THIS team did not. They came back and got the job done.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

No info, but I believe all of you Kelly dissenters will get your wish after this season. There is no way he stays another year if there is a quality NFL position open.

Now the big question: assuming Kelly leaves, would you prefer he hand the keys to someone in the ranks? Denbrock? Sanford? etc? Or do you prefer he go outside? Reach for Patterson? Sumlin? etc?

 

[greyhammer90]

No info, but I believe all of you Kelly dissenters will get your wish after this season. There is no way he stays another year if there is a quality NFL position open.

Now the big question: assuming Kelly leaves, would you prefer he hand the keys to someone in the ranks? Denbrock? Sanford? etc? Or do you prefer he go outside? Reach for Patterson? Sumlin? etc?

You go outside. You always go outside. If there's one thing we've learned in 20 years of middling football its that you don't ask a first time head coach to take the ND job. It's a recipe for disaster.

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

You go outside. You always go outside. If there's one thing we've learned in 20 years of middling football its that you don't ask a first time head coach to take the ND job. It's a recipe for disaster.

I'd take Paterson in a heartbeat

 

[NDPhilly]

If we can all agree that ND's level of talent is far above that of VA's

IMO (trying to place numeric to what my gut is saying), last Saturday's poor performance was is chalked up to......

15% VA's good Gameplan (coach)
10% VA's team was up for the game and played above potential (coach)
10% VA's Players played individually up to, or above their potential (kids)
25% ND's poor gameplan (coach)
25% ND's team was down for the game and played below potential (coach)
10% ND's players played below individually up to, or below their potential (kids)
5% Bad luck (MZ's injury, bad ref calls)

35% VA / 60%ND
50% bad coaching / 10% bad ind kid perf

So, IMO, ND Coaching has the highest accountability for the poor performance (50%). Factor in player development long term in certain areas (DB and DL mostly), and the % probably increases.

You forgot 15% concentrated power of will

 

[Bluto]

Again, we are talking about the foundation for success, not the readiness for success THIS year. Your want to talk about THIS team, at THIS time, and then cherry pick the worst moments from the last 5 years? I remember the times that ND let teams like Michigan march right down the field and score. ND entered the 4th Q this week up by 12 points. They gave up 2 4th Q touchdowns, the go ahead one coming with 1:54 left. Past ND teams would have quit. THIS team did not. They came back and got the job done.

The offense didn't quit. The defense not so much. The closing minutes of that game reminded me of the Charlie Weis days when Clausen would march the team right down the field only to have someone like Conneticut march it right back down for the winning score.